In article , Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:57:26 -0400, "Dan L."
wrote:


To Other posters:
Please expand my knowledge. I agree that my view was wrong on the
digestive process of animals. Billy's view makes more sense.

Question #1:
I always thought at least carnivore's poop was not good for use in
vegetable gardens because it contains E-coli. Is this concept correct?
If not, Why?

It's not the e-coli, it is a plethora of other pathogens and parasites,
some of which haven't been determined to be destroyed by composting.
Some parasite eggs can live in the soil for a considerable length of
time...longer than one season. Imagine grubbing about with your
fingers insoil that is contaminated with hookworm, whipworm,
coccycidiosis (yeah, it ain't just a chicken disease...years ago we
came up with an abandoned collie that ws infected and we quickly had
one hell of a problem with the other dogs and the soil.....it was over
a year before we whipped that problem...like I said fecals every six
now.) Good grief, as I ponder this, it makes me want to go hang the
dog and cat! ;-) Not really, the cat gets dewormed every three months
whether he needs it or not and the dog gets a fecal check every six.

People really need to be aware of the fact that many animal parasites
are zoonotic, that is, they are transmitted to humans. If you have
animals, particularly pets with which you are in close contact, they
need to be checked often.

Question #2:
Does herbivores like cows have E-coli in their poop?

Yes. Other nasties too. Fresh horse manure and urine, for example,
can contain, and transmit tetanus and lepto, amongst other things and
parasites.

I thought one did not get E-coli from cattle products. I thought E-coli
came from unsanitary meet packing houses that ended up in ground meat.
Steaks were not a problem, simply searing the steak would kill the
E-coli on the surface area (marinading meet should be cooked thoughly).

AHhhh......I truly do enjoy a nice thick rare to medium-rare piece of
cow. I'm pretty picky about my source though.

Question #3:
From reading Charlie's posting, the answer to #2 seems to be yes.
So does this mean that even cow manure (cow poop) should not even be
used on gardens also? This seems to go against an old tradition.

Just a couple of links that describe the hazards and offer
recommendations about how to safely use cow crap.

http://gardening.wsu.edu/stewardship...re/manure2.htm

http://eap.mcgill.ca/SFMC_1.htm


I do believe E-coli can be found from contaminated water and if used on
vegetable gardens can be bad news also. I thought water contamination
came from mostly human waste sewer run offs and not cattle wastes run
offs.

No longer. Here in northern MO and elsewhere, CAFO (concentrated
animal feed operations), hogs in particular, are a huge issue and
concern and the subjuct of a lot of contention and lawsuits. Water and
air pollution is rampant, though proponents and many local and state
governments say otherwise. The CAFO folks usually win. If you have
ever been by such an operation, and seen inside and smelled them, from
miles away even, you might question eating pork. Same for most other
massed produced meats. And eggs. And milk. Fortunately for the
masses, milk is pasteurized.

The author of The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved,Sandor Ellix Katz,
will argue that one. Katz claims that pasturization kills milk ability
to defend itself. Natural milk, says Katz. has lactobacillus in it which
will cause milk to sour (buttermilk) raising it's acidity and lowering
its' pH which will protect it naturally for a few days.

Let me know if you want the the whole argument.

We used to purchase raw milk from a
neighbor, but I helped him milk sometimes and he was absolutely
meticulous about sanitation. Washed the bag and teats before milking
with water and antiseptic, sterilized milk buckets, clean hands,
instantly cooled. Cows were tested for TB.

Life is risky. Ya just gotta know how to minimize, or eliminate, those
risks.

Please expand my knowledge of this subject. Just trying to get some
basic rules on the use of animal waste fertilizers if one should use it.

My recommendation is to use only composted manure. I shy away from
using manure, prefering alfalfa, both baled and meal. I also use fish
emusions. This year I am trying the compost tea routine for soil
health.

Herbivore manure can be a good source of nutrients, properly used.
Composted, applied in the fall and allowed to overwinter, etc. Many
parasites live in the soil and as a part of their reproductive cycle
are attached to grasses, just waiting for the next herbivore to come
along and complete the cycle.

After writing this, it occurs to me that one may want to use similar
sanitary precautions that you would use in your kitchen.

HTH
Care
Charlie
--

Billy

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