compost problem

[0tterbot]

hello,
the first batch of compost i made in my new! tumbling! composter!! was
absolutely tops. this second batch is not going well at all - would anyone
have any thoughts?

at first, it dripped profusely out the holes. then, it heated up. my
goodness!! i had inadvertantly made an incendiary device (don't tell john
howard) and it was actually smoking. i cooled it by turning it often &
leaving the lid off for 4-5 days until it cooled. after it cooled, it
recommenced to drip profusely. now, several weeks later, it's too cold & the
composting stuff has merged into big wet gobs about the size of two fists, i
can't get it heated & the gobs won't break up naturally & to do so with my
hands is extraordinarily unpleasant (whereas i don't normally mind _what_ i
put my hands in, so it's really not nice at all). i added some lime to no
effect. it doesn't smell bad - it just doesn't smell like anything at all
(certainly not that lovely composty smell).

my idea was that tomorrow i'll empty it out & break up the lumps with a
spade, & then put it back in for a while with some more lime & some
partly-decomposed chicken-pooey straw (for carbon with a poo-boost) & see
what it's like after a week. if still no good i might just dump it out to
break down on its own & start again.

does anyone have a better idea? does anyone know what went wrong? i strongly
suspect the materials were just too wet & nitrogenous (iirc it was mainly
fruit peels & such, from the cafe) & not enough carbon, even though there
was quite a bit of paper in there.

thanks for any thoughts!
kylie

[Jack[_7_]]

When its smoking, its just right according to the taliban!

Add some shovel fulls of ordinary garden dirt, and the bacteria in
dirt will help a bit, also add some blood and bone.
If you dont add dirt the system wont work normally. Also there's
usually some worm castings in the dirt, which all goes to help.
Let us know how you get it right!
PS a lot of compact stuff is not a good idea. You should use mixed
sizes of compost to allow air into the system....But that may not
aplly to a rotary composter.
I have had this idea for a drum type composter with small wind
assisted rotation attachment.
Will get around to it one day I guess!



0tterbot wrote:
> hello,
> the first batch of compost i made in my new! tumbling! composter!! was
> absolutely tops. this second batch is not going well at all - would anyone
> have any thoughts?
>
> at first, it dripped profusely out the holes. then, it heated up. my
> goodness!! i had inadvertantly made an incendiary device (don't tell john
> howard) and it was actually smoking. i cooled it by turning it often &
> leaving the lid off for 4-5 days until it cooled. after it cooled, it
> recommenced to drip profusely. now, several weeks later, it's too cold & the
> composting stuff has merged into big wet gobs about the size of two fists, i
> can't get it heated & the gobs won't break up naturally & to do so with my
> hands is extraordinarily unpleasant (whereas i don't normally mind _what_ i
> put my hands in, so it's really not nice at all). i added some lime to no
> effect. it doesn't smell bad - it just doesn't smell like anything at all
> (certainly not that lovely composty smell).
>
> my idea was that tomorrow i'll empty it out & break up the lumps with a
> spade, & then put it back in for a while with some more lime & some
> partly-decomposed chicken-pooey straw (for carbon with a poo-boost) & see
> what it's like after a week. if still no good i might just dump it out to
> break down on its own & start again.
>
> does anyone have a better idea? does anyone know what went wrong? i strongly
> suspect the materials were just too wet & nitrogenous (iirc it was mainly
> fruit peels & such, from the cafe) & not enough carbon, even though there
> was quite a bit of paper in there.
>
> thanks for any thoughts!
> kylie
>
>

[George.com]

"0tterbot" > wrote in message
...
> hello,
> the first batch of compost i made in my new! tumbling! composter!! was
> absolutely tops. this second batch is not going well at all - would anyone
> have any thoughts?
>
> at first, it dripped profusely out the holes. then, it heated up. my
> goodness!! i had inadvertantly made an incendiary device (don't tell john
> howard) and it was actually smoking. i cooled it by turning it often &
> leaving the lid off for 4-5 days until it cooled. after it cooled, it
> recommenced to drip profusely. now, several weeks later, it's too cold &
the
> composting stuff has merged into big wet gobs about the size of two fists,
i
> can't get it heated & the gobs won't break up naturally & to do so with my
> hands is extraordinarily unpleasant (whereas i don't normally mind _what_
i
> put my hands in, so it's really not nice at all). i added some lime to no
> effect. it doesn't smell bad - it just doesn't smell like anything at all
> (certainly not that lovely composty smell).
>
> my idea was that tomorrow i'll empty it out & break up the lumps with a
> spade, & then put it back in for a while with some more lime & some
> partly-decomposed chicken-pooey straw (for carbon with a poo-boost) & see
> what it's like after a week. if still no good i might just dump it out to
> break down on its own & start again.
>
> does anyone have a better idea?

if you have some a spare corner in the garden and time on your side bung it
there (or even use as mulch in a fallow garden) and let the worms go to work
on it for 2-3 months. Concentrate on brewing up a better batch of compost
and let your volunteer helpers do their stuff.

rob

[Geoff & Heather]

I agree with "george"- give it to our good friends the worms to fix for
you - they love the slimy smelly stuff. Help them out with a bit of lime or
shredded paper.
Geoff



"George.com" > wrote in message
...
>
> "0tterbot" > wrote in message
> ...
>> hello,
>> the first batch of compost i made in my new! tumbling! composter!! was
>> absolutely tops. this second batch is not going well at all - would
>> anyone
>> have any thoughts?
>>
>> at first, it dripped profusely out the holes. then, it heated up. my
>> goodness!! i had inadvertantly made an incendiary device (don't tell john
>> howard) and it was actually smoking. i cooled it by turning it often &
>> leaving the lid off for 4-5 days until it cooled. after it cooled, it
>> recommenced to drip profusely. now, several weeks later, it's too cold &
> the
>> composting stuff has merged into big wet gobs about the size of two
>> fists,
> i
>> can't get it heated & the gobs won't break up naturally & to do so with
>> my
>> hands is extraordinarily unpleasant (whereas i don't normally mind _what_
> i
>> put my hands in, so it's really not nice at all). i added some lime to no
>> effect. it doesn't smell bad - it just doesn't smell like anything at all
>> (certainly not that lovely composty smell).
>>
>> my idea was that tomorrow i'll empty it out & break up the lumps with a
>> spade, & then put it back in for a while with some more lime & some
>> partly-decomposed chicken-pooey straw (for carbon with a poo-boost) & see
>> what it's like after a week. if still no good i might just dump it out to
>> break down on its own & start again.
>>
>> does anyone have a better idea?
>
> if you have some a spare corner in the garden and time on your side bung
> it
> there (or even use as mulch in a fallow garden) and let the worms go to
> work
> on it for 2-3 months. Concentrate on brewing up a better batch of compost
> and let your volunteer helpers do their stuff.
>
> rob
>
>

[Jack[_7_]]

I agree but she will not find out what was missing in the second instance.
Always add the shovel full of soil to introduce the proper bacterial
ingredients to the compost, but so not to kill them, add it after the
heap has cooled down. This is what may have happened initially.

Geoff & Heather wrote:
> I agree with "george"- give it to our good friends the worms to fix for
> you - they love the slimy smelly stuff. Help them out with a bit of lime or
> shredded paper.
> Geoff
>
>
>
> "George.com" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "0tterbot" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> hello,
>>> the first batch of compost i made in my new! tumbling! composter!! was
>>> absolutely tops. this second batch is not going well at all - would
>>> anyone
>>> have any thoughts?
>>>
>>> at first, it dripped profusely out the holes. then, it heated up. my
>>> goodness!! i had inadvertantly made an incendiary device (don't tell john
>>> howard) and it was actually smoking. i cooled it by turning it often &
>>> leaving the lid off for 4-5 days until it cooled. after it cooled, it
>>> recommenced to drip profusely. now, several weeks later, it's too cold &
>> the
>>> composting stuff has merged into big wet gobs about the size of two
>>> fists,
>> i
>>> can't get it heated & the gobs won't break up naturally & to do so with
>>> my
>>> hands is extraordinarily unpleasant (whereas i don't normally mind _what_
>> i
>>> put my hands in, so it's really not nice at all). i added some lime to no
>>> effect. it doesn't smell bad - it just doesn't smell like anything at all
>>> (certainly not that lovely composty smell).
>>>
>>> my idea was that tomorrow i'll empty it out & break up the lumps with a
>>> spade, & then put it back in for a while with some more lime & some
>>> partly-decomposed chicken-pooey straw (for carbon with a poo-boost) & see
>>> what it's like after a week. if still no good i might just dump it out to
>>> break down on its own & start again.
>>>
>>> does anyone have a better idea?
>> if you have some a spare corner in the garden and time on your side bung
>> it
>> there (or even use as mulch in a fallow garden) and let the worms go to
>> work
>> on it for 2-3 months. Concentrate on brewing up a better batch of compost
>> and let your volunteer helpers do their stuff.
>>
>> rob
>>
>>
>
>

[0tterbot]

"Jack" > wrote in message
u...
>I agree but she will not find out what was missing in the second instance.

i still think it was probably not enough carbon, but just not sure.

> Always add the shovel full of soil to introduce the proper bacterial
> ingredients to the compost, but so not to kill them, add it after the heap
> has cooled down. This is what may have happened initially.

but i shouldn't "need" soil for it (although it might be helpful - i might
pop some into the new lot to see what difference there is), should i? there
was a bit of old compost left behind from the last lot (which was great,
without any soil) & that should have been bacteria a-plenty, logically
thinking.
thanks!
kylie

[0tterbot]

"Jack" > wrote in message
...
> When its smoking, its just right according to the taliban!
>
> Add some shovel fulls of ordinary garden dirt, and the bacteria in dirt
> will help a bit, also add some blood and bone.
> If you dont add dirt the system wont work normally.

it's worth pointing out that tumbling compost isn't really "normal" :-) for
ordinary compost in a bin, you should have it on the ground directly & i
know some people like to put a layer of soil in their recipe (although
others don't). if it's in a pile on the ground, it will eventually break
down into nice compost come what may & no matter how long it might take, yet
i suspect that if a tumbling composter was just walked away from, you might
not get that, because it's seperated from the normal bugs & usual rotting
environment.

in tumbled compost, you won't have any worms, slaters, & other creatures
that you normally would. it's a different & rather more artifical system.

Also there's
> usually some worm castings in the dirt, which all goes to help.
> Let us know how you get it right!
> PS a lot of compact stuff is not a good idea.

i know!!! i wish i knew why it conglomerated into disgusting gobs. i think
the whole mix was just wrong.

You should use mixed
> sizes of compost to allow air into the system....But that may not aplly to
> a rotary composter.
> I have had this idea for a drum type composter with small wind assisted
> rotation attachment.
> Will get around to it one day I guess!

it's an interesting idea! i'm pretty sure you wouldn't want it rotating
constantly though, unless you had a really really biiiiig one, so that the
bacteria weren't being constantly tossed about. my theory is that, like with
soil, they need an element of peace & quiet to do their thing, which they
can't do if constantly disturbed (that's just my theory though). you tumble
it a few times every two days with the model i have.
kylie

[Jack[_7_]]

OK got you this. Hope it helps.Re rotation, I reckon we need to keep
the oxygen into the pile, and constant rotation while it may disturb
the buildup of heat, mixes the pile better and you should still
manually stop the rotation of the device.

Decomposing organisms need four key elements to thrive:

1. Nitrogen 50%
2. Carbon 50%
3. Moisture
4. Oxygen

For best results, mix materials high in nitrogen (such as clover,
fresh grass clippings,

and livestock manure) and those high in carbon (such as dried leaves
and twigs).

If there is not a good supply of nitrogen-rich material, a handful of
general lawn fertilizer

will help the nitrogen-carbon ratio. Moisture can be provided by
rain, but you may need to water

or cover the pile to keep it damp. Be careful not to saturate the
pile. Turning or mixing the

pile provides oxygen. Frequent turning yields faster decomposition.

Getting started

Many materials can be added to a compost pile, including leaves,
grass clippings,

straw, woody brush, vegetable and fruit scraps, coffee grounds,
livestock manure,

sawdust, and shredded paper. Do not use diseased plants, meat scraps
that may

attract animals, and dog or cat manure which can carry disease.
Composting can be

as simple or as involved as you would like, and depends on how much
yard waste you have,

how fast you want results, and the effort you are willing to invest.

Cold or slow composting

With cold or slow composting, you can just pile grass clippings and
dry leaves on the

ground or in a bin. This method requires no maintenance, but it will
take several

months to a year or more for the pile to decompose. Cold composting
works well if

you are short on time needed to tend the compost pile at least every
other day,

have little yard waste, and are not in a hurry to use the compost.
Keep weeds and

diseased plants out of the mix since the temperatures reached with
cold composting

may not be high enough to kill the weed seeds or disease-causing
organisms. Add yard

waste as it accumulates. Shredding or chopping speeds up the process.

To easily shred material, run your lawn mower over small piles of
weeds and trimmings.

Cold composting has been shown to be better at suppressing soil-borne
diseases than

hot composting. Cold composting also leaves more non-decomposed bits
of material,

which can be screened out if desired.

Hot composting

Hot composting requires more work, but with a few minutes a day and
the right

ingredients you can have finished compost in a few weeks depending on
weather

conditions.>>> The composting season coincides with the growing
season. <<<<External temperature has an effect too!

When conditions are favorable for plant growth, those same conditions
work

well for biological activity in the compost pile. However, since compost

generates heat, the process may continue later into the autumn or winter.

Hot piles do best when high-carbon material and high-nitrogen material

are mixed in a 1 to 1 ratio. A pile with the minimum dimensions of 3'
x 3' x 3'

is needed for efficient heating. For best heating, make a heap that is
4 or 5

feet in each dimension. As decomposition occurs, the pile will shrink.

If you don't have this amount at one time, simply stockpile your
materials

until a sufficient quantity is available for proper mixing.

Hot piles reach 110 to 160 degrees Fahrenheit, killing most weed seeds

and plant diseases. Studies have shown that compost produced at these

temperatures has less ability to suppress diseases in the soil since

these temperatures may kill some of the beneficial bacteria necessary

to suppress disease.

WOW what a lot of things to take into account.
Back to my compost heap. It seems to work, and I'm in no hurry...so
its not being watched either.

[0tterbot]

"Jack" > wrote in message
u...
> OK got you this. Hope it helps.Re rotation, I reckon we need to keep the
> oxygen into the pile, and constant rotation while it may disturb the
> buildup of heat, mixes the pile better and you should still manually stop
> the rotation of the device.
>
> Decomposing organisms need four key elements to thrive:
>
> 1. Nitrogen 50%
> 2. Carbon 50%
> 3. Moisture
> 4. Oxygen
(snippage)

i agree with all of that :-)

tried to up the carbon content in my replacement batch back to my usual sort
of mixture. left the gobby compost in an unappetising pile on the ground. my
dog loves compost - he's been making bottom music all night. (sigh).

i think i need to have a better look at the stuff that is coming to us from
the cafe before it goes in. this time around there's much less fruit & much
more coffee grounds so it should go much better. other things that were in
there while it was waiting to go into the tumbler seem mostly broken down
and unidentifiable...

> WOW what a lot of things to take into account.
> Back to my compost heap. It seems to work, and I'm in no hurry...so its
> not being watched either.

i never had any problems with mine when i wasn't in a hurry either :-) it
just used to sit there, really. eventually i'd get to it & it would be so
old & broken down i've ended up with hardly any <g>. now i am a grown-up
lady i have two standing bins & the rotating one.
kylie

[0tterbot]

"Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:19:11 GMT, "0tterbot" > wrote:
>
>>"Jack" > wrote in message
...
>>> When its smoking, its just right according to the taliban!
>>>
>>> Add some shovel fulls of ordinary garden dirt, and the bacteria in dirt
>>> will help a bit, also add some blood and bone.
>>> If you dont add dirt the system wont work normally.
>>
>>it's worth pointing out that tumbling compost isn't really "normal" :-)
>>for
>>ordinary compost in a bin, you should have it on the ground directly & i
>>know some people like to put a layer of soil in their recipe (although
>>others don't). if it's in a pile on the ground, it will eventually break
>>down into nice compost come what may & no matter how long it might take,
>>yet
>>i suspect that if a tumbling composter was just walked away from, you
>>might
>>not get that, because it's seperated from the normal bugs & usual rotting
>>environment.
>>
>>in tumbled compost, you won't have any worms, slaters, & other creatures
>>that you normally would. it's a different & rather more artifical system.
>
> I tend to agree about tumbled compost though mainly from the
> perspective that I don't need compost that fast.
>
>> Also there's
>>> usually some worm castings in the dirt, which all goes to help.
>>> Let us know how you get it right!
>>> PS a lot of compact stuff is not a good idea.
>
> I have two compost bins. The first being a typical Gedeys bin in full
> sun which I fill and then remove the bin to another location.
> The second bin is kept moist and shaded and I've added compost worms
> and it is a hive of activity. I carefully feed the worms and keep new
> compost material moist while at the same time I can remove old
> material for pots or my garden by opening doors at the bottom.

if i'd had one with a bottom door i may never have discovered the joys (and
travails ;-) of a tumbler!!

my two ground bins are the cheap, basic kind. fine to just let it rot at
it's own speed, but otherwise extremely difficult to use unless you have so
many of them you can just leave them to it for a year.

your wormy bin sounds very interesting. in the worm book i read (thread up
above somewhere) the author visited a poultry-processing plant and worm farm
in india. they used giant worm-beds to get rid of the heads, feet & feathers
of the chickens. it took (wait for it) 18 days from go to woe, beaks & all.
wow!
kylie

[0tterbot]

"Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
...

> Wow is probably the best comment I could make about that too. :)
>
> Most of the literature to do with feeding worms in worm farms advises
> us to cut up vegetable cuttings finely and crush eggs shells etc. but
> I've been finding particulary with the worms in the compost bin, that
> I can just chuck almost anything in and the worms usually attack it
> immediately.
>
> Even now after only this very short time, comparing the increase in
> size of the worms in the compost bin to those in the worm farms has
> been amazing.
>
> I sometimes need to dispose of a dead cat

should i ask? :-)

and I would have no
> hesitation in adding a dead cat to my compost bin containing compost
> worms. It would be interesting to see how long it took to get rid of
> it compared to the 18 days it took to get rid of rid of the heads,
> feet & feathers beaks & all those chickens.

thinking about it, i suspect that if a worm farm or bed is running very
well, there must be a symbiotic relationship between the worms & other
bacteria within; and once this is happening, decomposition happens really
fast. i mean, a worm couldn't eat a chicken beak unless it was dissolving
steadily already :-) your worm bin must have reached that marvellous point
where it's all go. when i had a worm farm (tragedy ensued) i just never got
to that point - it was always slow. then it all went bung & that was that.
yours sounds excellent!!

> I only got into worm farms a couple of months ago as a means of
> getting rid of dog poo, but have since read that it wasn't such a good
> idea to compost dog poo anyway. The better alternative appears to be
> to let the local council remove dog poo each week along with the
> garbage.

why do you say?

i know there's two schools of thought on poo: one is that all poo is good
(that would be me) & the other that carnivorous or omnivorous poo is bad,
only vegetarian poo is good. to me, the latter idea makes no sense - but
anyway, why do you say that?
kylie

[0tterbot]

"Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
...

>>i know there's two schools of thought on poo: one is that all poo is good
>>(that would be me) & the other that carnivorous or omnivorous poo is bad,
>>only vegetarian poo is good. to me, the latter idea makes no sense - but
>>anyway, why do you say that?
>
> In just a few words :-)
>
> Cow manure is considered safe and excellent for compost or direct in
> the garden but most dogs receive medications periodically to rid them
> of parasites and the medications can also kill compost worms. So first
> off there is a withholding period when dog poo can't be added to the
> worm farm.

but you can add the poo later after it's sat for a while, if you are
concerned :-) also, medications have changed - this may no longer be true in
all cases. (well, i know horse medications have changed - one would need to
find out concerning dog medication specifically).

> If a worm farm is used to compost dog poo then the worm farm needs to
> be fed dog poo exclusively otherwise if given a choice they tend to
> avoid or ignore the dog poo. Using a worm farm just to compost dog poo
> could be considered as a waste of a worm farm.

afaik, the poo-farms are very small, not full-size. my dad had one. (he let
it dry out even after i said it was too dry!! gah!!!) it was probably 50cm
wide by 20cm high by (i don't know) something-similar deep.

> When dogs are taken for a walk in the street or down the local park
> who knows what bugs they could pick up. Fortunately most things would
> be most likely to pass through with their droppings. If their
> droppings are dug into the ground as a means of getting rid of them
> then the situation could be established where dogs could in future
> pick up those same bugs in your own backyard. The same could apply if
> the dog poo was added to a compost bin or worm farm, there is no
> guarantee that the composting would destroy those bugs so they could
> possibly survive composting and eventually still finish up in your
> garden.

i tend not to think in those terms, but rather one of creating a balance,
but anyway. (one reason of many i completely gave up on teh Mad Dog
Newsgroup was there were too many people there that were just insane - i
doubt most of them actually wanted their dogs to just be DOGS - they
considered them to be some sort of higher species who needed to be actively
protected from everything on earth and it was just nuts... but sorry, i'm
getting off-track.)

> So the local council picks up dog poo here along with my garbage.

thanks for your thoughts :-). where i am at is that i would like it if
people thought once, twice, three times about everything that ends up in
landfill, how it came to be that way, & whether we would need to have
landfill at all if we could just get ourselves together & stop treating the
earth like a rubbish dump. "garbage" is a resource, in the same way that
weeds are merely plants we don't like to see become so successful in our
micro-managed world. if our leavings aren't a genuine resource, i ask myself
what we can do about that, because we need to think about these things.
:-)
kylie
>
>

[Jonno[_8_]]

You dont have to worry. Nature has ways of disposing of the Human race
if it becomes too successful.
Like in the move "war games, it starts again with a major disaster.


0tterbot wrote:
> "Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> i know there's two schools of thought on poo: one is that all poo is good
>>> (that would be me) & the other that carnivorous or omnivorous poo is bad,
>>> only vegetarian poo is good. to me, the latter idea makes no sense - but
>>> anyway, why do you say that?
>> In just a few words :-)
>>
>> Cow manure is considered safe and excellent for compost or direct in
>> the garden but most dogs receive medications periodically to rid them
>> of parasites and the medications can also kill compost worms. So first
>> off there is a withholding period when dog poo can't be added to the
>> worm farm.
>
> but you can add the poo later after it's sat for a while, if you are
> concerned :-) also, medications have changed - this may no longer be true in
> all cases. (well, i know horse medications have changed - one would need to
> find out concerning dog medication specifically).
>
>> If a worm farm is used to compost dog poo then the worm farm needs to
>> be fed dog poo exclusively otherwise if given a choice they tend to
>> avoid or ignore the dog poo. Using a worm farm just to compost dog poo
>> could be considered as a waste of a worm farm.
>
> afaik, the poo-farms are very small, not full-size. my dad had one. (he let
> it dry out even after i said it was too dry!! gah!!!) it was probably 50cm
> wide by 20cm high by (i don't know) something-similar deep.
>
>> When dogs are taken for a walk in the street or down the local park
>> who knows what bugs they could pick up. Fortunately most things would
>> be most likely to pass through with their droppings. If their
>> droppings are dug into the ground as a means of getting rid of them
>> then the situation could be established where dogs could in future
>> pick up those same bugs in your own backyard. The same could apply if
>> the dog poo was added to a compost bin or worm farm, there is no
>> guarantee that the composting would destroy those bugs so they could
>> possibly survive composting and eventually still finish up in your
>> garden.
>
> i tend not to think in those terms, but rather one of creating a balance,
> but anyway. (one reason of many i completely gave up on teh Mad Dog
> Newsgroup was there were too many people there that were just insane - i
> doubt most of them actually wanted their dogs to just be DOGS - they
> considered them to be some sort of higher species who needed to be actively
> protected from everything on earth and it was just nuts... but sorry, i'm
> getting off-track.)
>
>> So the local council picks up dog poo here along with my garbage.
>
> thanks for your thoughts :-). where i am at is that i would like it if
> people thought once, twice, three times about everything that ends up in
> landfill, how it came to be that way, & whether we would need to have
> landfill at all if we could just get ourselves together & stop treating the
> earth like a rubbish dump. "garbage" is a resource, in the same way that
> weeds are merely plants we don't like to see become so successful in our
> micro-managed world. if our leavings aren't a genuine resource, i ask myself
> what we can do about that, because we need to think about these things.
> :-)
> kylie
>>
>
>

[Chookie]

In article >,
"0tterbot" > wrote:

> thanks for your thoughts :-). where i am at is that i would like it if
> people thought once, twice, three times about everything that ends up in
> landfill, how it came to be that way, & whether we would need to have
> landfill at all if we could just get ourselves together & stop treating the
> earth like a rubbish dump. "garbage" is a resource, in the same way that
> weeds are merely plants we don't like to see become so successful in our
> micro-managed world. if our leavings aren't a genuine resource, i ask myself
> what we can do about that, because we need to think about these things.

Big article in the SMH today about the vast amounts of money being made out of
recycling/using waste.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

[George.com]

"Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:38:00 +1000, "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given>
> wrote:
>
> >"Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
> >> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:32:06 +1000, "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>"0tterbot" > wrote in message
> >>>> "Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>>> So first off there is a withholding period when dog poo can't be
added
> >>>>> to the worm farm.
> >>>>
> >>>> but you can add the poo later after it's sat for a while, if you are
> >>>> concerned :-) also, medications have changed - this may no longer be
> >>>> true
> >>>> in all cases. (well, i know horse medications have changed - one
would
> >>>> need to find out concerning dog medication specifically).
> >>>
> >>>Dog dewormer has the active ingredient called fenbendazole. Compost
worms
> >>>are called Eisenia fetida. If you do a google or vivisimo search on
these
> >>>two search criteria, I'd be most interested if you can manage to find
> >>>anything to worry about. I couldn't.
> >>
> >> The medications I'm currently giving to my dogs on a monthly basis
> >> contain praziquartel
> >
> >Are you sure it isn't praziquantel????? That is the most common
treatment
> >for dogs in farming areas to prevent tapeworm, specifically the hydatid
> >tapeworm. It works on most worms but not heartworm AFAIK. Are you in a
> >farming area?
>
> The labeling on the packet is praziquantel and not praziquartel like I
> said previously. I'm in Melbourne's suburbia.
>
> >>and milbemycin as the active constituents to
> >> prevent heartworm and control all the other worms that usually infest
> >> dogs.
> >
> >The milbemycin is the heartworm treatment for dogs which return a
negative
> >test.
> >
> >> The suppliers of worm farms and compost worms suggest a withholding
> >> period of feeding dog poo after dogs have been treated for worms.
> >
> >I would too if I was selling them. I did notice when I did a search that
> >this was the recommendation but I couldn't find any scientific info to
back
> >up their advice. They might be just a bit overcautious but best to be
safe
> >than sorry especially if there is a chance of wormfarmers using it too
fresh
> >on leaf veg.
> >
> >I was told by a very old professional gardener, that dog shit was
brilliant
> >for fertilising citrus trees. I've never tried it as my dogs poop in the
> >bushes (except for one of them who was town bred and prefers to do his
tiny
> >poops at the bottom of the steps. All his stuff goes straight into a
bucket
> >and then to the tip when there is a bucket full).
>
> My dogs poop on the back lawn but I planted a lemon tree last spring
> which is doing very well and the dog pees on it every time he has a
> leak.
>
> >Putting it under a citrus tree would get it out of the way and not
> >contaminate anything else I should imagine.
>
> I'm a great believer in recycling and composting to the extent that I
> seldom have anything for our council to remove in their weekly
> collections. I put the garbage bin out for collection every second or
> third week and it usually contains dog poo and little else, so I won't
> bother recycling dog poo.

I put dog poop under my hedge, free fertiliser and I need nothing else.

rob

[FarmI]

"0tterbot" > wrote in message
> "Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message

>>>i know there's two schools of thought on poo: one is that all poo is good
>>>(that would be me)

>> In just a few words :-)
>>
>> Cow manure is considered safe and excellent for compost or direct in
>> the garden but most dogs receive medications periodically to rid them
>> of parasites and the medications can also kill compost worms. So first
>> off there is a withholding period when dog poo can't be added to the
>> worm farm.
>
> but you can add the poo later after it's sat for a while, if you are
> concerned :-) also, medications have changed - this may no longer be true
> in all cases. (well, i know horse medications have changed - one would
> need to find out concerning dog medication specifically).

Dog dewormer has the active ingredient called fenbendazole. Compost worms
are called Eisenia fetida. If you do a google or vivisimo search on these
two search criteria, I'd be most interested if you can manage to find
anything to worry about. I couldn't.

I had no luck finding anything of a scientific nature that suggested there
was any chance of the worm farm worms being killed by any of the common
vermicides applied at the recommended dosage rates.

The only really negative info I found related to Ivomectin and in that case,
it seems that you'd need to overdose the animal (not a dog) to the point of
death with Ivomectin (which isn't a dog dewormer) to have any affect on soil
earthworms at all.

This may interest you
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15216554

[FarmI]

"Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:32:06 +1000, "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given>
> wrote:
>
>>"0tterbot" > wrote in message
>>> "Stuart Naylor" > wrote in message
>>
>>>>>i know there's two schools of thought on poo: one is that all poo is
>>>>>good
>>>>>(that would be me)
>>
>>>> In just a few words :-)
>>>>
>>>> Cow manure is considered safe and excellent for compost or direct in
>>>> the garden but most dogs receive medications periodically to rid them
>>>> of parasites and the medications can also kill compost worms. So first
>>>> off there is a withholding period when dog poo can't be added to the
>>>> worm farm.
>>>
>>> but you can add the poo later after it's sat for a while, if you are
>>> concerned :-) also, medications have changed - this may no longer be
>>> true
>>> in all cases. (well, i know horse medications have changed - one would
>>> need to find out concerning dog medication specifically).
>>
>>Dog dewormer has the active ingredient called fenbendazole. Compost worms
>>are called Eisenia fetida. If you do a google or vivisimo search on these
>>two search criteria, I'd be most interested if you can manage to find
>>anything to worry about. I couldn't.
>
> The medications I'm currently giving to my dogs on a monthly basis
> contain praziquartel

Are you sure it isn't praziquantel????? That is the most common treatment
for dogs in farming areas to prevent tapeworm, specifically the hydatid
tapeworm. It works on most worms but not heartworm AFAIK. Are you in a
farming area?

and milbemycin as the active constituents to
> prevent heartworm and control all the other worms that usually infest
> dogs. Previously they had diethylcarbamazine citrate daily to prevent
> heartworm.

The milbemycin is the heartworm treatment for dogs which return a negative
test.

>>I had no luck finding anything of a scientific nature that suggested there
>>was any chance of the worm farm worms being killed by any of the common
>> >>vermicides applied at the recommended dosage rates.
>>
>>The only really negative info I found related to Ivomectin and in that
>>case,
>>it seems that you'd need to overdose the animal (not a dog) to the point
>>of
>>death with Ivomectin (which isn't a dog dewormer) to have any affect on
>>soil >>earthworms at all.
>
> The suppliers of worm farms and compost worms suggest a withholding
> period of feeding dog poo after dogs have been treated for worms.

I would too if I was selling them. I did notice when I did a search that
this was the recommendation but I couldn't find any scientific info to back
up their advice. They might be just a bit overcautious but best to be safe
than sorry especially if there is a chance of wormfarmers using it too fresh
on leaf veg.

I was told by a very old professional gardener, that dog shit was brilliant
for fertilising citrus trees. I've never tried it as my dogs poop in the
bushes (except for one of them who was town bred and prefers to do his tiny
poops at the bottom of the steps. All his stuff goes straight into a bucket
and then to the tip when there is a bucket full).

Putting it under a citrus tree would get it out of the way and not
contaminate anything else I should imagine.