Compost

[MajorOz]

I have gardened on and off for a number of years, but have really
jumped into veggies and landscaping since I got a place in the boonies
eight years ago. I don't seem to have too many problems with the
basics, and I go organic as much as I can.

In that vein, I intend to venture into composting.
The cleared portion of my land, around the buildings, that I mow
comprises about four or so acres of generic local weeds, fescue that
has blown in from the neighbors up the road, and whatever forbs and
juvie trees take root come spring. I have no "lawn".
Can I gather these clippings and, after the proper treatment and
ageing, use them in the garden, with the roses and other flowers, or
as cover / mulch here and there? Will doing so simply re-distribute
weed seed?

I manage my 63 acres for wildlife, and plant trees and brush from the
state -- too damn many trees to keep up with :) Would the well aged
compost from these clippings be OK to put in the "holes" that the
trees get planted in?

Thanx for any help.

cheers

oz

[beecrofter]

'Would the well aged
compost from these clippings be OK to put in the "holes" that the
trees get planted in? "

Better to topdress with the compost, 2" or more , but pull back a few
inches from the trunk

[sherwindu]

I usually add some compost to a mix of soil and sand when planting trees,
especially
if it is in a location where the soil is compacted and the drainage poor. The
mulch
can also be put around the tree, as suggested, but I do that in the fall to give
a type
of 'blanket' insulation for the coming winter. This mulch will eventually work
it's way
into the soil around the tree, so it has a dual benefit.

Sherwin D.

MajorOz wrote:

> I have gardened on and off for a number of years, but have really
> jumped into veggies and landscaping since I got a place in the boonies
> eight years ago. I don't seem to have too many problems with the
> basics, and I go organic as much as I can.
>
> In that vein, I intend to venture into composting.
> The cleared portion of my land, around the buildings, that I mow
> comprises about four or so acres of generic local weeds, fescue that
> has blown in from the neighbors up the road, and whatever forbs and
> juvie trees take root come spring. I have no "lawn".
> Can I gather these clippings and, after the proper treatment and
> ageing, use them in the garden, with the roses and other flowers, or
> as cover / mulch here and there? Will doing so simply re-distribute
> weed seed?
>
> I manage my 63 acres for wildlife, and plant trees and brush from the
> state -- too damn many trees to keep up with :) Would the well aged
> compost from these clippings be OK to put in the "holes" that the
> trees get planted in?
>
> Thanx for any help.
>
> cheers
>
> oz

[John Bachman]

On 29 May 2007 21:15:43 -0700, MajorOz > wrote:

>I have gardened on and off for a number of years, but have really
>jumped into veggies and landscaping since I got a place in the boonies
>eight years ago. I don't seem to have too many problems with the
>basics, and I go organic as much as I can.
>
>In that vein, I intend to venture into composting.
>The cleared portion of my land, around the buildings, that I mow
>comprises about four or so acres of generic local weeds, fescue that
>has blown in from the neighbors up the road, and whatever forbs and
>juvie trees take root come spring. I have no "lawn".
>Can I gather these clippings and, after the proper treatment and
>ageing, use them in the garden, with the roses and other flowers, or
>as cover / mulch here and there? Will doing so simply re-distribute
>weed seed?
>
>I manage my 63 acres for wildlife, and plant trees and brush from the
>state -- too damn many trees to keep up with :) Would the well aged
>compost from these clippings be OK to put in the "holes" that the
>trees get planted in?
>

If you manage the compost so that it gets hot the weed seeds will be
killed. That requires adequate moisture and turning periodically to
provide oxygen. I monitor my compost pile with a thermometer and turn
it when the internal temperature drops 20 degrees F.

If you just pile it up and wait you will get good compost (it usually
takes 3 years this way) but the weed seeds will survive and will
thrive in the rich compost.

John

>Thanx for any help.
>
>cheers
>
>oz

[FragileWarrior]

John Bachman > wrote in
:


> If you manage the compost so that it gets hot the weed seeds will be
> killed.

Are you sure? Seems to me I remember one of the teachers in our MG class
saying that weed seeds can survive even the hottest compost pile. In fact,
IIRC, the first things that return after a forest fire are the weeds.

[Bill R]

FragileWarrior wrote:
> John Bachman > wrote in
> :
>
>
>
>>If you manage the compost so that it gets hot the weed seeds will be
>>killed.
>
>
> Are you sure? Seems to me I remember one of the teachers in our MG class
> saying that weed seeds can survive even the hottest compost pile. In fact,
> IIRC, the first things that return after a forest fire are the weeds.

I think John should have said "MOST weed seeds will be killed". For
that reason I don't put anything that has seeds in my compost pile.
Also, I don't put "woody" type items in my compost bin because of the
time that it takes for them to break down.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

Gardening for over 40 years

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

[Pennyaline]

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from Bill R > contains these words:
>
>> FragileWarrior wrote:
>>> John Bachman > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you manage the compost so that it gets hot the weed seeds will be
>>>> killed.
>>>
>>> Are you sure? Seems to me I remember one of the teachers in our MG class
>>> saying that weed seeds can survive even the hottest compost pile.
>>> In fact,
>>> IIRC, the first things that return after a forest fire are the weeds.
>
> That depends on the local ecology. In areas where forest or prairie
> fires are common, some perennial seeds actually require scorching before
> they can germinate, and garden growers have to simulate that :-). But
> many annual garden weed seeds in cool temperate climates, can't survive
> fire.
>
>> I think John should have said "MOST weed seeds will be killed". For
>> that reason I don't put anything that has seeds in my compost pile.
>
> I have several compost heaps, at least two being filled at any one
> time. One is specially for seedy weeds. Its a black plastic dalek shape,
> in the sun, and gets very hot inside. The compost that comes from it, is
> buried in holes underground; for filling bean trenches, planting shrubs
> and such like. Most garden weed seeds require light to germinate so, if
> any do survive composting, they've no hope of germinating deep down
> under the soil surface.

Also, seeds may germinate during composting while still in the
topmost/outermost layers of the pile where temps are lowest. A
well-maintained compost is turned more than once, which allows more than
one opportunity to send new sprouts down into the hottest zone where
they will be killed.

[FragileWarrior]

Janet Baraclough > wrote in
:

> The message >
> from Bill R > contains these words:
>
>> FragileWarrior wrote:
>> > John Bachman > wrote in
>> > :
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>If you manage the compost so that it gets hot the weed seeds will
>> >>be killed.
>> >
>> >
>> > Are you sure? Seems to me I remember one of the teachers in our MG
>> > class saying that weed seeds can survive even the hottest compost
>> > pile. In fact,
>> > IIRC, the first things that return after a forest fire are the
>> > weeds.
>
> That depends on the local ecology. In areas where forest or
> prairie
> fires are common, some perennial seeds actually require scorching
> before they can germinate, and garden growers have to simulate that
> :-). But many annual garden weed seeds in cool temperate climates,
> can't survive fire.
>
>> I think John should have said "MOST weed seeds will be killed". For
>> that reason I don't put anything that has seeds in my compost pile.
>
> I have several compost heaps, at least two being filled at any one
> time. One is specially for seedy weeds. Its a black plastic dalek
> shape, in the sun, and gets very hot inside. The compost that comes
> from it, is buried in holes underground; for filling bean trenches,
> planting shrubs and such like. Most garden weed seeds require light to
> germinate so, if any do survive composting, they've no hope of
> germinating deep down under the soil surface.
>
> Janet.
>

Now THAT'S an excellent idea!

[Kay Lancaster]

On 29 May 2007 21:15:43 -0700, MajorOz > wrote:
> In that vein, I intend to venture into composting.
> The cleared portion of my land, around the buildings, that I mow
> comprises about four or so acres of generic local weeds, fescue that
> has blown in from the neighbors up the road, and whatever forbs and
> juvie trees take root come spring. I have no "lawn".
> Can I gather these clippings and, after the proper treatment and
> ageing, use them in the garden, with the roses and other flowers, or
> as cover / mulch here and there? Will doing so simply re-distribute
> weed seed?

Hot composting will take care of weed seeds -- but it can be difficult to
maintain a pile at requisite temperatures. Better to cut before
seeds actually form. 140oF for several days is considered "enough to
kill weed seeds". You might also solarize compost after you make it,
if the weed seed issue is a big one.

> I manage my 63 acres for wildlife, and plant trees and brush from the
> state -- too damn many trees to keep up with :) Would the well aged
> compost from these clippings be OK to put in the "holes" that the
> trees get planted in?

Recent work says that trees should be planted in unimproved "native"
soil for better root growth. Improve the soil too much and the roots
tend to stay in the dug hole.

I don't know when you're cutting, but be aware that cutting at the same
time each year can favor certain plant species over other ones, and by
doing so, you can really disrupt native insects and so forth that
you can actually negatively effect the animals you're managing for.

Kay

[FragileWarrior]

Kay Lancaster > wrote in
:

> Recent work says that trees should be planted in unimproved "native"
> soil for better root growth. Improve the soil too much and the roots
> tend to stay in the dug hole.

Absolutlely. To further expound on the theory, if the dirt in the hole is
too wonderful and rich, when the nice tender new roots reach the native
soil (which here in Indiana is killer CLAY) they simply don't have the
strength to go any further. What you get, therefore, is a weak tree with a
root ball that only grows in that nice stuff you gave it way back when.
Backfill with native soil for the best chance at survival.

[Charlie[_2_]]

On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:53:50 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
> wrote:

>Kay Lancaster > wrote in
:
>
>> Recent work says that trees should be planted in unimproved "native"
>> soil for better root growth. Improve the soil too much and the roots
>> tend to stay in the dug hole.
>
>Absolutlely. To further expound on the theory, if the dirt in the hole is
>too wonderful and rich, when the nice tender new roots reach the native
>soil (which here in Indiana is killer CLAY) they simply don't have the
>strength to go any further. What you get, therefore, is a weak tree with a
>root ball that only grows in that nice stuff you gave it way back when.
>Backfill with native soil for the best chance at survival.

Doh.......just when I gets to thinkin' I am pretty durned smart, I
learns summat new.

Thank you both for this, and it makes perfect sense. I have had some
problems with trees in the past, particularly when we get hot dry
winds.

Thank goodness it has been raining and the new apples still aren't in.
I was going to make a mistake, for sure.

Gratefully
Charlie

[Phisherman[_1_]]

On 29 May 2007 21:15:43 -0700, MajorOz > wrote:

>I have gardened on and off for a number of years, but have really
>jumped into veggies and landscaping since I got a place in the boonies
>eight years ago. I don't seem to have too many problems with the
>basics, and I go organic as much as I can.
>
>In that vein, I intend to venture into composting.
>The cleared portion of my land, around the buildings, that I mow
>comprises about four or so acres of generic local weeds, fescue that
>has blown in from the neighbors up the road, and whatever forbs and
>juvie trees take root come spring. I have no "lawn".
>Can I gather these clippings and, after the proper treatment and
>ageing, use them in the garden, with the roses and other flowers, or
>as cover / mulch here and there? Will doing so simply re-distribute
>weed seed?
>
>I manage my 63 acres for wildlife, and plant trees and brush from the
>state -- too damn many trees to keep up with :) Would the well aged
>compost from these clippings be OK to put in the "holes" that the
>trees get planted in?
>
>Thanx for any help.
>
>cheers
>
>oz

When planting a tree, make the hole as deep as the root ball, no
deeper. Make the diameter of the hole twice the size of the root
ball. The tree will benefit with compost around the root ball, but
not underneath it.

[MajorOz]

Thank you all so much for the information. I am googling around for
references for compost piles. It looks like it would be best to do
two -- one for strictly what passes for grass in the area I keep
mowed, and the other for all else, including garden culls. I
especially like the idea of solar absorption for heating the pile(s).
Thanx again

cheers

oz, who just finished off the berry patch by planting three kinds of
Ukranian gooseberries

[Bob F]

"MajorOz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thank you all so much for the information. I am googling around for
> references for compost piles. It looks like it would be best to do
> two -- one for strictly what passes for grass in the area I keep
> mowed, and the other for all else, including garden culls. I
> especially like the idea of solar absorption for heating the
> pile(s).
> Thanx again
>

Why would you want to separate out the grass?

Bob

[George.com]

"FragileWarrior" > wrote in message
...
> John McWilliams > wrote in
> :
>
> > John Bachman wrote:
> >> On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:30:17 -0700, MajorOz >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On May 31, 9:37 am, "Bob F" > wrote:
> >>>> "MajorOz" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>> oups.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thank you all so much for the information. I am googling around
> for
> >>>>> references for compost piles. It looks like it would be best to do
> >>>>> two -- one for strictly what passes for grass in the area I keep
> >>>>> mowed, and the other for all else, including garden culls. I
> >>>>> especially like the idea of solar absorption for heating the
> >>>>> pile(s).
> >>>>> Thanx again
> >>>> Why would you want to separate out the grass?
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob
> >>> Just speculating here, but:
> >>> 1. Seems the grass one would decompose faster if it's just grass --
> >>> no woody stalks, etc.
> >>> 2. Less likely to contain large numbers of weed seed.
> >>
> >> Grass mats down when not mixed with other materials. I use a grass
> >> clipping and leaves mixture when I make compost and it works just fine
> >> with few weed seeds and good, rapid decomposition with frequent
> >> turning.
> >
> > Green grass all by itself tends to rot into a soggy mess, resembling
> > what dogs produce when they eat a bunch of grass. IIRC.
>
> Maybe but at least it doesn't appear on your bedroom floor in the middle
> of the night after being announced with several long and disgusting hork
> noises.

Yes it does when your mutt tramps it in or goes burrowing into it looking
for some disgusting crap smelling 'treat'.

Worse still though stumbling off to the bog in the dark to find the grass
that has been recycled by said mutt somewhere in your path.

rob

[MajorOz]

On May 31, 9:37 am, "Bob F" > wrote:
> "MajorOz" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > Thank you all so much for the information. I am googling around for
> > references for compost piles. It looks like it would be best to do
> > two -- one for strictly what passes for grass in the area I keep
> > mowed, and the other for all else, including garden culls. I
> > especially like the idea of solar absorption for heating the
> > pile(s).
> > Thanx again
>
> Why would you want to separate out the grass?
>
> Bob

Just speculating here, but:
1. Seems the grass one would decompose faster if it's just grass --
no woody stalks, etc.
2. Less likely to contain large numbers of weed seed.

cheers

oz, who thinks he found a paw-paw tree in one of the gullies -- have
to look it up

[FragileWarrior]

MajorOz > wrote in news:1180675817.585433.261760
@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> On May 31, 9:37 am, "Bob F" > wrote:
>> "MajorOz" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>> > Thank you all so much for the information. I am googling around for
>> > references for compost piles. It looks like it would be best to do
>> > two -- one for strictly what passes for grass in the area I keep
>> > mowed, and the other for all else, including garden culls. I
>> > especially like the idea of solar absorption for heating the
>> > pile(s).
>> > Thanx again
>>
>> Why would you want to separate out the grass?
>>
>> Bob
>
> Just speculating here, but:
> 1. Seems the grass one would decompose faster if it's just grass --
> no woody stalks, etc.

Those woody stalks help air get into the pile, though, and that speeds up
decomposition. I'd think all grass would get matted, black and smelly.
I know I have to be careful about how much hay I put in the pile for that
reason.

> 2. Less likely to contain large numbers of weed seed.

True, that.

[John Bachman]

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:30:17 -0700, MajorOz >
wrote:

>On May 31, 9:37 am, "Bob F" > wrote:
>> "MajorOz" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>> > Thank you all so much for the information. I am googling around for
>> > references for compost piles. It looks like it would be best to do
>> > two -- one for strictly what passes for grass in the area I keep
>> > mowed, and the other for all else, including garden culls. I
>> > especially like the idea of solar absorption for heating the
>> > pile(s).
>> > Thanx again
>>
>> Why would you want to separate out the grass?
>>
>> Bob
>
>Just speculating here, but:
>1. Seems the grass one would decompose faster if it's just grass --
>no woody stalks, etc.
>2. Less likely to contain large numbers of weed seed.
>

Grass mats down when not mixed with other materials. I use a grass
clipping and leaves mixture when I make compost and it works just fine
with few weed seeds and good, rapid decomposition with frequent
turning.

John

[John McWilliams]

John Bachman wrote:
> On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:30:17 -0700, MajorOz >
> wrote:
>
>> On May 31, 9:37 am, "Bob F" > wrote:
>>> "MajorOz" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> oups.com...
>>>
>>>> Thank you all so much for the information. I am googling around for
>>>> references for compost piles. It looks like it would be best to do
>>>> two -- one for strictly what passes for grass in the area I keep
>>>> mowed, and the other for all else, including garden culls. I
>>>> especially like the idea of solar absorption for heating the
>>>> pile(s).
>>>> Thanx again
>>> Why would you want to separate out the grass?
>>>
>>> Bob
>> Just speculating here, but:
>> 1. Seems the grass one would decompose faster if it's just grass --
>> no woody stalks, etc.
>> 2. Less likely to contain large numbers of weed seed.
>>
>
> Grass mats down when not mixed with other materials. I use a grass
> clipping and leaves mixture when I make compost and it works just fine
> with few weed seeds and good, rapid decomposition with frequent
> turning.

Green grass all by itself tends to rot into a soggy mess, resembling
what dogs produce when they eat a bunch of grass. IIRC.

00
--
john mcwilliams

[FragileWarrior]

John McWilliams > wrote in
:

> John Bachman wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:30:17 -0700, MajorOz >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On May 31, 9:37 am, "Bob F" > wrote:
>>>> "MajorOz" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> oups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you all so much for the information. I am googling around
for
>>>>> references for compost piles. It looks like it would be best to do
>>>>> two -- one for strictly what passes for grass in the area I keep
>>>>> mowed, and the other for all else, including garden culls. I
>>>>> especially like the idea of solar absorption for heating the
>>>>> pile(s).
>>>>> Thanx again
>>>> Why would you want to separate out the grass?
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>> Just speculating here, but:
>>> 1. Seems the grass one would decompose faster if it's just grass --
>>> no woody stalks, etc.
>>> 2. Less likely to contain large numbers of weed seed.
>>>
>>
>> Grass mats down when not mixed with other materials. I use a grass
>> clipping and leaves mixture when I make compost and it works just fine
>> with few weed seeds and good, rapid decomposition with frequent
>> turning.
>
> Green grass all by itself tends to rot into a soggy mess, resembling
> what dogs produce when they eat a bunch of grass. IIRC.
>

Maybe but at least it doesn't appear on your bedroom floor in the middle
of the night after being announced with several long and disgusting hork
noises.

[mleblanca]

On Jun 1, 10:44 am, FragileWarrior >
wrote:
> John McWilliams > wrote

>
> > Green grass all by itself tends to rot into a soggy mess, resembling
> > what dogs produce when they eat a bunch of grass. IIRC.
>
> Maybe but at least it doesn't appear on your bedroom floor in the middle
> of the night after being announced with several long and disgusting hork
> noises.

ROTFL Oh how I used to hate waking up to that sound. I could
never get her out side fast enough, usually wound up stepping
in it on the way
Emilie

[FragileWarrior]

mleblanca > wrote in
ps.com:

> On Jun 1, 10:44 am, FragileWarrior >
> wrote:
>> John McWilliams > wrote
>>
>
>>
>> > Green grass all by itself tends to rot into a soggy mess,
>> > resembling what dogs produce when they eat a bunch of grass. IIRC.
>>
>> Maybe but at least it doesn't appear on your bedroom floor in the
>> middle of the night after being announced with several long and
>> disgusting hork noises.
>
> ROTFL Oh how I used to hate waking up to that sound. I could
> never get her out side fast enough, usually wound up stepping
> in it on the way
> Emilie

I used to raw feed my dogs (two Irish Wolfhounds and a Scottish
Deerhound) and without FAIL, on any day they ate turkey necks, there
would be the infamous 3 a.m. hork. This is a pretty common phenomena
among dogs that are raw fed for reasons that are understandable if you
realize that that is how dogs used to transport their food back to their
pups and/or for more leisurely eating. I got really good at being
halfway to the door before I woke up and they got really good at
extending the hork until they could finish it up outside. It was then I
realized that when a dog does it in the house it's just because they're
mad at me about something.

[Rachael Simpson]

"FragileWarrior" > wrote in message
...
> mleblanca > wrote in
> ps.com:
>
>> On Jun 1, 10:44 am, FragileWarrior >
>> wrote:
>>> John McWilliams > wrote
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> > Green grass all by itself tends to rot into a soggy mess,
>>> > resembling what dogs produce when they eat a bunch of grass. IIRC.
>>>
>>> Maybe but at least it doesn't appear on your bedroom floor in the
>>> middle of the night after being announced with several long and
>>> disgusting hork noises.
>>
>> ROTFL Oh how I used to hate waking up to that sound. I could
>> never get her out side fast enough, usually wound up stepping
>> in it on the way
>> Emilie
>
> I used to raw feed my dogs (two Irish Wolfhounds and a Scottish
> Deerhound) and without FAIL, on any day they ate turkey necks, there
> would be the infamous 3 a.m. hork. This is a pretty common phenomena
> among dogs that are raw fed for reasons that are understandable if you
> realize that that is how dogs used to transport their food back to their
> pups and/or for more leisurely eating. I got really good at being
> halfway to the door before I woke up and they got really good at
> extending the hork until they could finish it up outside. It was then I
> realized that when a dog does it in the house it's just because they're
> mad at me about something.

That's why we don't have pets in the house...........of course - we don't
have to worry about them freezing here either.

[FragileWarrior]

"Rachael Simpson" > wrote in
:

>
> "FragileWarrior" > wrote in message
> ...
>> mleblanca > wrote in
>> ps.com:
>>
>>> On Jun 1, 10:44 am, FragileWarrior
>>> > wrote:
>>>> John McWilliams > wrote
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Green grass all by itself tends to rot into a soggy mess,
>>>> > resembling what dogs produce when they eat a bunch of grass.
>>>> > IIRC.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe but at least it doesn't appear on your bedroom floor in the
>>>> middle of the night after being announced with several long and
>>>> disgusting hork noises.
>>>
>>> ROTFL Oh how I used to hate waking up to that sound. I could
>>> never get her out side fast enough, usually wound up stepping
>>> in it on the way
>>> Emilie
>>
>> I used to raw feed my dogs (two Irish Wolfhounds and a Scottish
>> Deerhound) and without FAIL, on any day they ate turkey necks, there
>> would be the infamous 3 a.m. hork. This is a pretty common phenomena
>> among dogs that are raw fed for reasons that are understandable if
>> you realize that that is how dogs used to transport their food back
>> to their pups and/or for more leisurely eating. I got really good at
>> being halfway to the door before I woke up and they got really good
>> at extending the hork until they could finish it up outside. It was
>> then I realized that when a dog does it in the house it's just
>> because they're mad at me about something.
>
> That's why we don't have pets in the house...........of course - we
> don't have to worry about them freezing here either.

My Deerie is my best buddy. She goes where I go and a little warm hork
between my toes (ONLY when she's mad at me about hogging the whole bed or
something) is not too great an inconvience for the pleasure of her
company. :)

[Bob F]

"FragileWarrior" > wrote in message
>>> Why would you want to separate out the grass?
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> Just speculating here, but:
>> 1. Seems the grass one would decompose faster if it's just
>> grass --
>> no woody stalks, etc.
>
> Those woody stalks help air get into the pile, though, and that
> speeds up
> decomposition. I'd think all grass would get matted, black and
> smelly.
> I know I have to be careful about how much hay I put in the pile for
> that
> reason.

I am careful to sprinkle the grass with a little dirt every few
inches, to innoculate it with the need bacteria. Since I learned to do
that, I don't have that problem.

Bob