75 or 90 for planted?

[Dustin]

Hello All -

First Id like to say, THANK YOU - You've all been so helpful the last few
days.
Ive decided to go with a bigger tank then the 29 that i currently own.

Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for the planted
aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck? any mail
orders, or something to that effect?

Thanks In Advance!

Dustin

[LeighMo]

>Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for the planted
>aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck? any mail
>orders, or something to that effect?

Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with the 75
gallon.
The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference is the 75 is
21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank deeper than 24" can
be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You wouldn't think
only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because light intensity
falls exponentially with distance.)

A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the tank is that
deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!). I've heard of
people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they reached into a
deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant got into the
tank.

As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical. The shipping
will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a chain like PetCo.
The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a loss in hopes
that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc. Call around
your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge hundreds of
dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here all wanted $700
to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo asked $325
for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Bruce Geist]

I have a 135 gallon tank that is 24 inches high. Leigh, as usual, gives
excellent adivce. She (I hope you are a she Leigh-- if not then I
appologise in advance..) is right about the light, though I find that even
though its tougher to light the bottom of the tank, 25 inches is not
insurmoutable-- especially if you are going to terrace. In addition, I
personally think that less than 24 inches looks a little funny with a
canopy. You may (or may not) choose to place a canopy over the top of the
tank-- but assess how you think it may look with the shallower tank in the
event you do want a canopy. Keep in mind also that there may be plants that
you want to keep that get tall. It may be nice to have certain sections of
the tank that are deeper than others. Just keep in mind that you may have
trouble with high light plants in the deep areas.

Certainly the "long arms" issue is real also. If you are a small person,
then you may want to avoid buying a tank that is too deep for you to reach
into. I know my wife would have a hard time reaching the bottom of my 135
gallon tank. I do not have a problem with this depth-- though any deeper
would become a hassel.

In summay, my cutoff would be about 24 inches-- not 21 inches. 25 inches
may be problematic, but its worthy of careful consideration.

For what its worth, that is my 2 cents. -Bruce Geist

LeighMo > wrote in message
...
> >Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for the
planted
> >aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck? any
mail
> >orders, or something to that effect?
>
> Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with the 75
> gallon.
> The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference is the
75 is
> 21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank deeper than
24" can
> be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You wouldn't
think
> only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because light
intensity
> falls exponentially with distance.)
>
> A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the tank is that
> deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!). I've
heard of
> people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they reached into
a
> deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant got into
the
> tank.
>
> As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical. The
shipping
> will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a chain like
PetCo.
> The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a loss in
hopes
> that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc. Call
around
> your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge hundreds
of
> dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here all wanted
$700
> to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo asked
$325
> for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.
>
>
> Leigh
>
> http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Dustin]

Thanks for the input you two :)

I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, I got a better discount
since I am friends with the manager, 599.00 Im guessing that is a good
price :)

Any suggestions for lighting this for plant growth? :)
Thanks!
"Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
...
> I have a 135 gallon tank that is 24 inches high. Leigh, as usual, gives
> excellent adivce. She (I hope you are a she Leigh-- if not then I
> appologise in advance..) is right about the light, though I find that even
> though its tougher to light the bottom of the tank, 25 inches is not
> insurmoutable-- especially if you are going to terrace. In addition, I
> personally think that less than 24 inches looks a little funny with a
> canopy. You may (or may not) choose to place a canopy over the top of the
> tank-- but assess how you think it may look with the shallower tank in the
> event you do want a canopy. Keep in mind also that there may be plants
that
> you want to keep that get tall. It may be nice to have certain sections
of
> the tank that are deeper than others. Just keep in mind that you may have
> trouble with high light plants in the deep areas.
>
> Certainly the "long arms" issue is real also. If you are a small person,
> then you may want to avoid buying a tank that is too deep for you to reach
> into. I know my wife would have a hard time reaching the bottom of my 135
> gallon tank. I do not have a problem with this depth-- though any deeper
> would become a hassel.
>
> In summay, my cutoff would be about 24 inches-- not 21 inches. 25 inches
> may be problematic, but its worthy of careful consideration.
>
> For what its worth, that is my 2 cents. -Bruce Geist
>
> LeighMo > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for the
> planted
> > >aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck? any
> mail
> > >orders, or something to that effect?
> >
> > Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with the 75
> > gallon.
> > The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference is the
> 75 is
> > 21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank deeper than
> 24" can
> > be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You wouldn't
> think
> > only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because light
> intensity
> > falls exponentially with distance.)
> >
> > A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the tank is
that
> > deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!). I've
> heard of
> > people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they reached
into
> a
> > deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant got into
> the
> > tank.
> >
> > As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical. The
> shipping
> > will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a chain like
> PetCo.
> > The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a loss in
> hopes
> > that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc. Call
> around
> > your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge
hundreds
> of
> > dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here all
wanted
> $700
> > to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo asked
> $325
> > for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.
> >
> >
> > Leigh
> >
> > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
>
>

[Jenya]

Congratulations on your new toy!
Sounds like fun.
It is good that your original question wasn't 125 or 150 because then you'd
end up with 225 :)

--
Jenya
Computers are useless. They can only give answers.-Pablo Picasso
"Dustin" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the input you two :)
>
> I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, I got a better discount
> since I am friends with the manager, 599.00 Im guessing that is a good
> price :)
>
> Any suggestions for lighting this for plant growth? :)
> Thanks!
> "Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a 135 gallon tank that is 24 inches high. Leigh, as usual, gives
> > excellent adivce. She (I hope you are a she Leigh-- if not then I
> > appologise in advance..) is right about the light, though I find that
even
> > though its tougher to light the bottom of the tank, 25 inches is not
> > insurmoutable-- especially if you are going to terrace. In addition, I
> > personally think that less than 24 inches looks a little funny with a
> > canopy. You may (or may not) choose to place a canopy over the top of
the
> > tank-- but assess how you think it may look with the shallower tank in
the
> > event you do want a canopy. Keep in mind also that there may be plants
> that
> > you want to keep that get tall. It may be nice to have certain sections
> of
> > the tank that are deeper than others. Just keep in mind that you may
have
> > trouble with high light plants in the deep areas.
> >
> > Certainly the "long arms" issue is real also. If you are a small
person,
> > then you may want to avoid buying a tank that is too deep for you to
reach
> > into. I know my wife would have a hard time reaching the bottom of my
135
> > gallon tank. I do not have a problem with this depth-- though any
deeper
> > would become a hassel.
> >
> > In summay, my cutoff would be about 24 inches-- not 21 inches. 25
inches
> > may be problematic, but its worthy of careful consideration.
> >
> > For what its worth, that is my 2 cents. -Bruce Geist
> >
> > LeighMo > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for the
> > planted
> > > >aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck?
any
> > mail
> > > >orders, or something to that effect?
> > >
> > > Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with the
75
> > > gallon.
> > > The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference is
the
> > 75 is
> > > 21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank deeper
than
> > 24" can
> > > be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You wouldn't
> > think
> > > only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because light
> > intensity
> > > falls exponentially with distance.)
> > >
> > > A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the tank is
> that
> > > deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!). I've
> > heard of
> > > people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they reached
> into
> > a
> > > deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant got
into
> > the
> > > tank.
> > >
> > > As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical. The
> > shipping
> > > will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a chain
like
> > PetCo.
> > > The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a loss in
> > hopes
> > > that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc. Call
> > around
> > > your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge
> hundreds
> > of
> > > dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here all
> wanted
> > $700
> > > to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo
asked
> > $325
> > > for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.
> > >
> > >
> > > Leigh
> > >
> > > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
> >
> >
>
>

[Dustin]

Haha I KNOW - I go overboard - Oh well - Thank God For Master Card :)


"Jenya" > wrote in message
...
> Congratulations on your new toy!
> Sounds like fun.
> It is good that your original question wasn't 125 or 150 because then
you'd
> end up with 225 :)
>
> --
> Jenya
> Computers are useless. They can only give answers.-Pablo Picasso
> "Dustin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thanks for the input you two :)
> >
> > I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, I got a better discount
> > since I am friends with the manager, 599.00 Im guessing that is a good
> > price :)
> >
> > Any suggestions for lighting this for plant growth? :)
> > Thanks!
> > "Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I have a 135 gallon tank that is 24 inches high. Leigh, as usual,
gives
> > > excellent adivce. She (I hope you are a she Leigh-- if not then I
> > > appologise in advance..) is right about the light, though I find that
> even
> > > though its tougher to light the bottom of the tank, 25 inches is not
> > > insurmoutable-- especially if you are going to terrace. In addition,
I
> > > personally think that less than 24 inches looks a little funny with a
> > > canopy. You may (or may not) choose to place a canopy over the top of
> the
> > > tank-- but assess how you think it may look with the shallower tank in
> the
> > > event you do want a canopy. Keep in mind also that there may be
plants
> > that
> > > you want to keep that get tall. It may be nice to have certain
sections
> > of
> > > the tank that are deeper than others. Just keep in mind that you may
> have
> > > trouble with high light plants in the deep areas.
> > >
> > > Certainly the "long arms" issue is real also. If you are a small
> person,
> > > then you may want to avoid buying a tank that is too deep for you to
> reach
> > > into. I know my wife would have a hard time reaching the bottom of my
> 135
> > > gallon tank. I do not have a problem with this depth-- though any
> deeper
> > > would become a hassel.
> > >
> > > In summay, my cutoff would be about 24 inches-- not 21 inches. 25
> inches
> > > may be problematic, but its worthy of careful consideration.
> > >
> > > For what its worth, that is my 2 cents. -Bruce Geist
> > >
> > > LeighMo > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > >Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for
the
> > > planted
> > > > >aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck?
> any
> > > mail
> > > > >orders, or something to that effect?
> > > >
> > > > Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with
the
> 75
> > > > gallon.
> > > > The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference is
> the
> > > 75 is
> > > > 21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank deeper
> than
> > > 24" can
> > > > be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You
wouldn't
> > > think
> > > > only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because
light
> > > intensity
> > > > falls exponentially with distance.)
> > > >
> > > > A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the tank
is
> > that
> > > > deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!).
I've
> > > heard of
> > > > people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they
reached
> > into
> > > a
> > > > deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant got
> into
> > > the
> > > > tank.
> > > >
> > > > As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical.
The
> > > shipping
> > > > will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a chain
> like
> > > PetCo.
> > > > The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a loss
in
> > > hopes
> > > > that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc. Call
> > > around
> > > > your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge
> > hundreds
> > > of
> > > > dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here all
> > wanted
> > > $700
> > > > to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo
> asked
> > > $325
> > > > for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Leigh
> > > >
> > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Moose]

Jeepers. I hope that's not american $... that's a heck of a lot of $ to
spend on a 125g tank. You could've easily made your own for a small tiny
itsy fraction of that cost.

"Dustin" > wrote in
:

> Thanks for the input you two :)
>
> I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, I got a better
> discount since I am friends with the manager, 599.00 Im guessing that
> is a good price :)
>
> Any suggestions for lighting this for plant growth? :)
> Thanks!
> "Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I have a 135 gallon tank that is 24 inches high. Leigh, as usual,
>> gives excellent adivce. She (I hope you are a she Leigh-- if not
>> then I appologise in advance..) is right about the light, though I
>> find that even though its tougher to light the bottom of the tank, 25
>> inches is not insurmoutable-- especially if you are going to terrace.
>> In addition, I personally think that less than 24 inches looks a
>> little funny with a canopy. You may (or may not) choose to place a
>> canopy over the top of the tank-- but assess how you think it may
>> look with the shallower tank in the event you do want a canopy. Keep
>> in mind also that there may be plants
> that
>> you want to keep that get tall. It may be nice to have certain
>> sections
> of
>> the tank that are deeper than others. Just keep in mind that you may
>> have trouble with high light plants in the deep areas.
>>
>> Certainly the "long arms" issue is real also. If you are a small
>> person, then you may want to avoid buying a tank that is too deep for
>> you to reach into. I know my wife would have a hard time reaching
>> the bottom of my 135 gallon tank. I do not have a problem with this
>> depth-- though any deeper would become a hassel.
>>
>> In summay, my cutoff would be about 24 inches-- not 21 inches. 25
>> inches may be problematic, but its worthy of careful consideration.
>>
>> For what its worth, that is my 2 cents. -Bruce Geist
>>
>> LeighMo > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > >Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for
>> > >the
>> planted
>> > >aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck?
>> > >any
>> mail
>> > >orders, or something to that effect?
>> >
>> > Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with
>> > the 75 gallon.
>> > The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference
>> > is the
>> 75 is
>> > 21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank deeper
>> > than
>> 24" can
>> > be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You
>> > wouldn't
>> think
>> > only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because
>> > light
>> intensity
>> > falls exponentially with distance.)
>> >
>> > A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the tank
>> > is
> that
>> > deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!).
>> > I've
>> heard of
>> > people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they
>> > reached
> into
>> a
>> > deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant got
>> > into
>> the
>> > tank.
>> >
>> > As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical.
>> > The
>> shipping
>> > will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a chain
>> > like
>> PetCo.
>> > The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a loss
>> > in
>> hopes
>> > that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc.
>> > Call
>> around
>> > your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge
> hundreds
>> of
>> > dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here all
> wanted
>> $700
>> > to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo
>> > asked
>> $325
>> > for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.
>> >
>> >
>> > Leigh
>> >
>> > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Dustin]

Yea thats american, hood / canapy / solid oak stand / tank.

Bad price?



"Moose" > wrote in message
.159...
> Jeepers. I hope that's not american $... that's a heck of a lot of $ to
> spend on a 125g tank. You could've easily made your own for a small tiny
> itsy fraction of that cost.
>
> "Dustin" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Thanks for the input you two :)
> >
> > I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, I got a better
> > discount since I am friends with the manager, 599.00 Im guessing that
> > is a good price :)
> >
> > Any suggestions for lighting this for plant growth? :)
> > Thanks!
> > "Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> I have a 135 gallon tank that is 24 inches high. Leigh, as usual,
> >> gives excellent adivce. She (I hope you are a she Leigh-- if not
> >> then I appologise in advance..) is right about the light, though I
> >> find that even though its tougher to light the bottom of the tank, 25
> >> inches is not insurmoutable-- especially if you are going to terrace.
> >> In addition, I personally think that less than 24 inches looks a
> >> little funny with a canopy. You may (or may not) choose to place a
> >> canopy over the top of the tank-- but assess how you think it may
> >> look with the shallower tank in the event you do want a canopy. Keep
> >> in mind also that there may be plants
> > that
> >> you want to keep that get tall. It may be nice to have certain
> >> sections
> > of
> >> the tank that are deeper than others. Just keep in mind that you may
> >> have trouble with high light plants in the deep areas.
> >>
> >> Certainly the "long arms" issue is real also. If you are a small
> >> person, then you may want to avoid buying a tank that is too deep for
> >> you to reach into. I know my wife would have a hard time reaching
> >> the bottom of my 135 gallon tank. I do not have a problem with this
> >> depth-- though any deeper would become a hassel.
> >>
> >> In summay, my cutoff would be about 24 inches-- not 21 inches. 25
> >> inches may be problematic, but its worthy of careful consideration.
> >>
> >> For what its worth, that is my 2 cents. -Bruce Geist
> >>
> >> LeighMo > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > >Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for
> >> > >the
> >> planted
> >> > >aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck?
> >> > >any
> >> mail
> >> > >orders, or something to that effect?
> >> >
> >> > Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with
> >> > the 75 gallon.
> >> > The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference
> >> > is the
> >> 75 is
> >> > 21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank deeper
> >> > than
> >> 24" can
> >> > be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You
> >> > wouldn't
> >> think
> >> > only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because
> >> > light
> >> intensity
> >> > falls exponentially with distance.)
> >> >
> >> > A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the tank
> >> > is
> > that
> >> > deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!).
> >> > I've
> >> heard of
> >> > people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they
> >> > reached
> > into
> >> a
> >> > deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant got
> >> > into
> >> the
> >> > tank.
> >> >
> >> > As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical.
> >> > The
> >> shipping
> >> > will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a chain
> >> > like
> >> PetCo.
> >> > The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a loss
> >> > in
> >> hopes
> >> > that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc.
> >> > Call
> >> around
> >> > your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge
> > hundreds
> >> of
> >> > dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here all
> > wanted
> >> $700
> >> > to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo
> >> > asked
> >> $325
> >> > for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Leigh
> >> >
> >> > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

[Chuck Gadd]

On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 02:38:34 -0800, "Dustin"
> wrote:

>Yea thats american, hood / canapy / solid oak stand / tank.
>
>Bad price?


Sounds like a reasonable price to me. If you are into DIY, then it's
possible to build your own stand and canopy and save a few bucks.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[kush]

Moose > wrote ...
>
>You could've easily made your own ...

I've never attempted to build a big tank because of the bracing - as far as
I'm concerned, if I spend a hundred bucks on a tank, what I'm really paying
for is that molded plastic frame.

Does anyone have a link to a good DIY plan for a big tank?

kush

"You can't have everything - where would you put it?"

[LeighMo]

>I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs,

Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet long, 18"
wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about any
lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make the most
sense.

Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not, it's
probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125 gallon is
sort of large for DIY!

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Moose]

The stand and hood make it a little less ugly. I thought you were talking
just about the tank. I still prefer the DIY method though... Come
January, I'll get to set up 3x100g tanks w/ rack system for nothing more
than time. :) Oh, and I'll have to buy some silicon. And a couple of
valves probably. But it's not going to cost me thousands like it would if
I bought it from a store :)

"Dustin" > wrote in news:v0t9p199urvoa8
@corp.supernews.com:

> Yea thats american, hood / canapy / solid oak stand / tank.
>
> Bad price?
>
>
>
> "Moose" > wrote in message
> .159...
>> Jeepers. I hope that's not american $... that's a heck of a lot of $
to
>> spend on a 125g tank. You could've easily made your own for a small
tiny
>> itsy fraction of that cost.
>>
>> "Dustin" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > Thanks for the input you two :)
>> >
>> > I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, I got a better
>> > discount since I am friends with the manager, 599.00 Im guessing
that
>> > is a good price :)
>> >
>> > Any suggestions for lighting this for plant growth? :)
>> > Thanks!
>> > "Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> I have a 135 gallon tank that is 24 inches high. Leigh, as usual,
>> >> gives excellent adivce. She (I hope you are a she Leigh-- if not
>> >> then I appologise in advance..) is right about the light, though I
>> >> find that even though its tougher to light the bottom of the tank,
25
>> >> inches is not insurmoutable-- especially if you are going to
terrace.
>> >> In addition, I personally think that less than 24 inches looks a
>> >> little funny with a canopy. You may (or may not) choose to place a
>> >> canopy over the top of the tank-- but assess how you think it may
>> >> look with the shallower tank in the event you do want a canopy.
Keep
>> >> in mind also that there may be plants
>> > that
>> >> you want to keep that get tall. It may be nice to have certain
>> >> sections
>> > of
>> >> the tank that are deeper than others. Just keep in mind that you
may
>> >> have trouble with high light plants in the deep areas.
>> >>
>> >> Certainly the "long arms" issue is real also. If you are a small
>> >> person, then you may want to avoid buying a tank that is too deep
for
>> >> you to reach into. I know my wife would have a hard time reaching
>> >> the bottom of my 135 gallon tank. I do not have a problem with
this
>> >> depth-- though any deeper would become a hassel.
>> >>
>> >> In summay, my cutoff would be about 24 inches-- not 21 inches. 25
>> >> inches may be problematic, but its worthy of careful consideration.
>> >>
>> >> For what its worth, that is my 2 cents. -Bruce Geist
>> >>
>> >> LeighMo > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > >Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for
>> >> > >the
>> >> planted
>> >> > >aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my
buck?
>> >> > >any
>> >> mail
>> >> > >orders, or something to that effect?
>> >> >
>> >> > Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with
>> >> > the 75 gallon.
>> >> > The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference
>> >> > is the
>> >> 75 is
>> >> > 21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank
deeper
>> >> > than
>> >> 24" can
>> >> > be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You
>> >> > wouldn't
>> >> think
>> >> > only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because
>> >> > light
>> >> intensity
>> >> > falls exponentially with distance.)
>> >> >
>> >> > A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the
tank
>> >> > is
>> > that
>> >> > deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!).
>> >> > I've
>> >> heard of
>> >> > people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they
>> >> > reached
>> > into
>> >> a
>> >> > deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant
got
>> >> > into
>> >> the
>> >> > tank.
>> >> >
>> >> > As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical.
>> >> > The
>> >> shipping
>> >> > will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a
chain
>> >> > like
>> >> PetCo.
>> >> > The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a
loss
>> >> > in
>> >> hopes
>> >> > that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc.
>> >> > Call
>> >> around
>> >> > your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge
>> > hundreds
>> >> of
>> >> > dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here
all
>> > wanted
>> >> $700
>> >> > to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo
>> >> > asked
>> >> $325
>> >> > for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Leigh
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>

[Moose]

I agree, a lot of the cost is the plastic, but they also use thicker
glass than you really need to, as the plastic doesn't add enough
strength. As I said in another post, I'll be making some big tanks in a
couple of weeks here. They'll be 3/8" glass with angle iron frames, and I
plan on fully photo-documenting the whole process. I'll post a link here
later if you like.

"kush" > wrote in
:

>
> Moose > wrote ...
>>
>>You could've easily made your own ...
>
> I've never attempted to build a big tank because of the bracing - as
> far as I'm concerned, if I spend a hundred bucks on a tank, what I'm
> really paying for is that molded plastic frame.
>
> Does anyone have a link to a good DIY plan for a big tank?
>
> kush
>
> "You can't have everything - where would you put it?"
>
>
>

[Dustin]

Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would
I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is alot of
watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the
regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent?

Im excited haha :)

Thanks Everyone for your input :)

"LeighMo" > wrote in message
...
> >I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs,
>
> Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet long,
18"
> wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about any
> lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make the
most
> sense.
>
> Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not, it's
> probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125
gallon is
> sort of large for DIY!
>
> Leigh
>
> http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Cannibul]

On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 10:43:54 -0800, "Dustin"
> wrote:

>Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would
>I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is alot of
>watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the
>regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent?
>
>Im excited haha :)
>
>Thanks Everyone for your input :)
>

I would go with AH Supply kits. The 96 watt kits would fit just
fine on this tank. Say four kits for 384 watts, that would give you
over three watts per gallon, and that is a HUGE amount of light for a
large tank. Many large tanks only run about two watts per gallon.

[LeighMo]

>Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would
>I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it.

You do anything -- metal halide, flourescent, PCF.

3 wpg is a lot of light for a tank this size -- more than it would be for a
smaller tank. Many people find 2 wpg is more than enough for a tank over 100
gallons. Make sure your CO2 system is up and running before you turn all that
light on!

PCFs from AH Supply would work well and be pretty easy, but if it were my tank,
I think I'd go with regular flourescent lights. It would be cheaper, and you'd
have more flexibility that way. If you wanted to start out with less light
until you get more experience, you could, just by leaving a few tubes out. If
you need to reduce the lighting for some reason (going to be away from the tank
on vacation, say), you could. You could create sunrise and sunset effects, by
putting different tubes on different timers. You could replace a few tubes
with "moonlight" bulbs, and be able to watch your tank at night. Etc.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Bruce Geist]

I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit
taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same
footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and
another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in length.
The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps per
fixture.

I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures alone--
for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew, as
they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light
currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your tank.
You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps down
the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a second
row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow in,
you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front, centered
on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it to
elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will
have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably match
up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks.

Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though you
may be able to get by with less. I did for a year.

Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another couple
of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist

Dustin > wrote in message
...
> Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting
would
> I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is alot
of
> watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the
> regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent?
>
> Im excited haha :)
>
> Thanks Everyone for your input :)
>
> "LeighMo" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs,
> >
> > Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet long,
> 18"
> > wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about
any
> > lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make the
> most
> > sense.
> >
> > Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not, it's
> > probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125
> gallon is
> > sort of large for DIY!
> >
> > Leigh
> >
> > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
>
>

[Dustin]

Bruce,

Thank You for the advice, do you have any pictures of your tank? or a
website?

I think ill take your advice and go with 4 - 96w setups from ahsupply, 2 -
5000k 2 - 6500k and use only two to begin with.

Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts? Is there
any website that talks about this? or did i miss this info at the krib?
"Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
...
> I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit
> taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same
> footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and
> another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in length.
> The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps per
> fixture.
>
> I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures alone--
> for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew, as
> they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light
> currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your tank.
> You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps down
> the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a
second
> row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow
in,
> you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front,
centered
> on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it
to
> elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will
> have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably match
> up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks.
>
> Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though you
> may be able to get by with less. I did for a year.
>
> Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another
couple
> of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist
>
> Dustin > wrote in message
> ...
> > Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting
> would
> > I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is
alot
> of
> > watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the
> > regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent?
> >
> > Im excited haha :)
> >
> > Thanks Everyone for your input :)
> >
> > "LeighMo" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs,
> > >
> > > Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet
long,
> > 18"
> > > wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about
> any
> > > lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make
the
> > most
> > > sense.
> > >
> > > Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not,
it's
> > > probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125
> > gallon is
> > > sort of large for DIY!
> > >
> > > Leigh
> > >
> > > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
> >
> >
>
>

[LeighMo]

>Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts?

You need to have a balance: light, fertilizer, CO2. Increase one, and you must
increase the others, too, or plants won't grow well and algae will take over
(because of the extra light & nutrients the plants aren't using).

In addition, a high-light tank without CO2 injection can suffer large daily
swings in pH, as the plants strip the CO2 they need out of the water during the
day, then release CO2 back into the water at night.

Here are a couple of links at the Krib:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/decalcification.html


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Bruce Geist]

Dustin,

I put a couple of pictures of my tank on the following page.

http://hometown.aol.com/brucekgeist/myhomepage/profile.html

Thanks for your interest. -Bruce Geist

PS: I agree with Leigh's post on getting all the plant nutrients in balance
from the start. Otherwise, you will grow a lot of algae. If you have not
already, take a look at Chuck Gadd's web site-- its a really great resource.
I followed his advise for starting a new tank a couple of years back now.
Here is a link to his site-- its really terrific. You will find a nice
article on starting a new aquarium there, along with the rational Leigh
presented for getting things in balance right away. Here is Chuck's site:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/

-Bruce


Dustin > wrote in message
...
> Bruce,
>
> Thank You for the advice, do you have any pictures of your tank? or a
> website?
>
> I think ill take your advice and go with 4 - 96w setups from ahsupply, 2 -
> 5000k 2 - 6500k and use only two to begin with.
>
> Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts? Is
there
> any website that talks about this? or did i miss this info at the krib?
> "Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit
> > taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same
> > footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and
> > another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in
length.
> > The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps
per
> > fixture.
> >
> > I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures
alone--
> > for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew,
as
> > they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light
> > currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your
tank.
> > You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps
down
> > the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a
> second
> > row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow
> in,
> > you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front,
> centered
> > on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it
> to
> > elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will
> > have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably
match
> > up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks.
> >
> > Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though
you
> > may be able to get by with less. I did for a year.
> >
> > Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another
> couple
> > of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist
> >
> > Dustin > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting
> > would
> > > I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is
> alot
> > of
> > > watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the
> > > regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent?
> > >
> > > Im excited haha :)
> > >
> > > Thanks Everyone for your input :)
> > >
> > > "LeighMo" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > >I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs,
> > > >
> > > > Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet
> long,
> > > 18"
> > > > wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just
about
> > any
> > > > lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make
> the
> > > most
> > > > sense.
> > > >
> > > > Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not,
> it's
> > > > probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg.
125
> > > gallon is
> > > > sort of large for DIY!
> > > >
> > > > Leigh
> > > >
> > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Dustin]

Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:67511

Thanks Leigh!
I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today :)

I appreciate all the words of wisdom!

Happy New Year!


"LeighMo" > wrote in message
...
> >Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts?
>
> You need to have a balance: light, fertilizer, CO2. Increase one, and you
must
> increase the others, too, or plants won't grow well and algae will take
over
> (because of the extra light & nutrients the plants aren't using).
>
> In addition, a high-light tank without CO2 injection can suffer large
daily
> swings in pH, as the plants strip the CO2 they need out of the water
during the
> day, then release CO2 back into the water at night.
>
> Here are a couple of links at the Krib:
>
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html
>
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/decalcification.html
>
>
> Leigh
>
> http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Cannibul]

On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:41:30 -0800, "Dustin"
> wrote:

>Thanks Leigh!
>I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today :)
>
>I appreciate all the words of wisdom!
>
>Happy New Year!
>


Hmm..... which system did you buy? I hope it was not the high
pressure system. Go here to see why
http://www.aquabotanic.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2272

And IMHO his prices are way too high for what you get. You could
head on over to www.kegworks.com and get a good regulator for $51, you
can build your own reactor and bubble counter, and you can get a good
needle valve for under $20. And you would be set except for the tank.

[Dustin]

THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the
fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the
product is junk?

Thanks,

Dustin
"Cannibul" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:41:30 -0800, "Dustin"
> > wrote:
>
> >Thanks Leigh!
> >I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today :)
> >
> >I appreciate all the words of wisdom!
> >
> >Happy New Year!
> >
>
>
> Hmm..... which system did you buy? I hope it was not the high
> pressure system. Go here to see why
> http://www.aquabotanic.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2272
>
> And IMHO his prices are way too high for what you get. You could
> head on over to www.kegworks.com and get a good regulator for $51, you
> can build your own reactor and bubble counter, and you can get a good
> needle valve for under $20. And you would be set except for the tank.

[LeighMo]

>THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
>know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the
>fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the
>product is junk?

Did you get the needle valve? Adding a needle valve makes it a "low-pressure"
system. I think that's what most of us who use compress CO2 use.

You always have to watch out for "CO2 dump" when the tank gets empty. When you
see the pressure gauge starting to drop, it's time for a refill. Don't try to
save a penny or two by getting every last molecule of CO2 out of the cylinder.
If you don't have time, turn off the CO2 at the tank valve. Better no CO2 for
a little while than a CO2 dump.

As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own system
for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating. They
don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many people,
to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions for
putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Andrew Roberts]

LeighMo wrote:

> As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own system
> for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating. They
> don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many people,
> to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions for
> putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems.

I purchased one of these systems in July (inc. needle valve), and have
been more than pleased with it on my 29 gallon tank. I was willing to
spend a few extra bucks for someone else to figure out all of the
various fitting sizes etc. and save a day of driving from welding shop
to welding shop. YMMV.

[kush]

How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180 gallon?

I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a
nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook up
and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money.

kush

"You can't have everything - where would you put it?"

Andrew Roberts > wrote in message
.. .
> LeighMo wrote:
>
> > As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own
system
> > for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating.
They
> > don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many
people,
> > to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions
for
> > putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems.
>
> I purchased one of these systems in July (inc. needle valve), and have
> been more than pleased with it on my 29 gallon tank. I was willing to
> spend a few extra bucks for someone else to figure out all of the
> various fitting sizes etc. and save a day of driving from welding shop
> to welding shop. YMMV.
>

[Chuck Gadd]

On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:06:08 GMT, "kush" >
wrote:

>How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180 gallon?
>
>I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a
>nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook up
>and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money.

$100 if you are really good at shopping around and looking for
bargins. $150 if not.

A decent CO2 regulator can be found at almost ANY time on ebay for
$30-40.

Here's one (I don't know the seller, just giving an example) on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11876&item=3102858289

This is the EXACT same regulator I'm using, and the one Dave Gomberg
sells (or at least sold me) for $75 or so...

A CO2 tank should cost you no more than $50.00 or so from your local
gas supplier or welding supply store.

A needle valve can be purchased new for $20.00. I got mine from
Marine Monsters, but I've heard they are having some trouble. If this
is still the case, I know I've seen several other places selling
needle valves for about the same price. I know Robert over at
Aquabotanic sells one for $18.00

A reactor can be made cheap using a small powerhead and a gravel vac
tube.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Chuck Gadd]

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:58:26 -0800, "Dustin"
> wrote:

>THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
>know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the
>fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the
>product is junk?

The product is perfectly fine. The problem is that the system doesn't
use a needle valve.

But even without a needle valve, the system is SAFE, and works fine.
The issue is what is known as an "end of tank dump". Co2 regulators
are intended to operate with a tank pressure of 800-2000 psi (CO2
pressure will never get that high, it's usually around 800-1000psi).
On the regulator, the high pressure gauge is marked in red from
0-600psi. This is because, when the CO2 runs out, the tank pressure
drops down. The regulator is unable to properly regulate when the
tank pressure is very low. In theory, anything below 600psi is a
problem. In practice, I've run my regulator (from Dave Gomberg) down
to 300-400psi with no "dump". But in any case, once the pressure
drops below the regulators minimum, the regulator looses the ability
to regulate the output properly, and the output pressure will rise.

Since with the "high pressure system" the pressure directly controls
the bubble rate, this rising output pressure results in a CO2
overdose.

At the extreme end, the regulator can completely loose control when
the tank pressure drops very far. At that point, it would vent all
the remaining CO2 in a sudden burst.

For all of these cases, simply adding a needle valve will provide a
safety net.

But, if you keep an eye on the tank pressure, it's easy to notice
BEFORE the tank pressure drops very far. Unlike watching your car's
gas gauge, the CO2 pressure will remain constant (around 800-1000psi
depending on the temp) until the tank is 99% empty. When the CO2 tank
is filled, the CO2 is under pressure, and is in a liquid form. As
long as ANY liquid CO2 remains in the tank, the pressure stays at that
800-1000psi. Once all the liquid is gone, the pressure will start to
drop.

On my tank, with a fairly high CO2 flow rate, I would get about a week
from the time the pressure first started to drop, till it reached the
600psi mark. So even without a needle-valve, if you glance at the
CO2 pressure once every few days, you will see it in time to prevent a
problem.

On my system, with a needle-valve, I intentionally let the pressure
drop all the way down. I run the regulator pressure at about 6psi
normally, and then control the bubble rate with the needle-valve. I
usually have a bubble rate around 2-3 bubble per second. As the tank
pressure dropped below 300psi, the output pressure rose up slowly to
about 15-20psi. I never saw a true "end of tank dump" with a big
spike in output pressure. And the bubble rate (because of the needle
valve) didn't increase much, less than 1 extra bubble per second.

Possibly a bigger issue with the Dave Gomberg high pressure system, if
it's the same as when I bought mine several years ago, is that the
tiny little Eheim diffusor isn't very effective in large tanks. In my
75g, I was unable to get acceptable CO2 levels using it. I ditched
the eheim diffusor, added a needle-valve, and built my DIY reactor,
and I've been very happy ever since.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[kush]

Thanks. Can you come over to my house and put it all together? I'll go out
to a movie or something because I don't like swearing - at least, not
listening to other people do it.

Chuck Gadd > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:06:08 GMT, "kush" >
> wrote:
>
> >How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180
gallon?
> >
> >I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a
> >nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook
up
> >and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money.
>
> $100 if you are really good at shopping around and looking for
> bargins. $150 if not.
>
> A decent CO2 regulator can be found at almost ANY time on ebay for
> $30-40.
>
> Here's one (I don't know the seller, just giving an example) on ebay:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11876&item=3102858289
>
> This is the EXACT same regulator I'm using, and the one Dave Gomberg
> sells (or at least sold me) for $75 or so...
>
> A CO2 tank should cost you no more than $50.00 or so from your local
> gas supplier or welding supply store.
>
> A needle valve can be purchased new for $20.00. I got mine from
> Marine Monsters, but I've heard they are having some trouble. If this
> is still the case, I know I've seen several other places selling
> needle valves for about the same price. I know Robert over at
> Aquabotanic sells one for $18.00
>
> A reactor can be made cheap using a small powerhead and a gravel vac
> tube.
>
>
> Chuck Gadd
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Chuck Gadd]

On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:17:31 GMT, "kush" >
wrote:

>Thanks. Can you come over to my house and put it all together? I'll go out

If you lived close enough, I would!

>to a movie or something because I don't like swearing - at least, not
>listening to other people do it.

The only part that really involved any swearing for me was finding
tiny little adapters to fit my needle valve to the regulator. Many
of the needle-valves I've seen lately just have hose-barb fittings on
both ends, and most reactors come with hose-barb fittings, so it's
pretty easy.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[LeighMo]

>Possibly a bigger issue with the Dave Gomberg high pressure system, if
>it's the same as when I bought mine several years ago, is that the
>tiny little Eheim diffusor isn't very effective in large tanks.

It's fine in my 75 gallon. I believe Chuck uses a wet-dry filter, which tends
to lose a lot of CO2. The Eheim will probably be fine with any "normal"
filter.

I am considering switching to some kind of reactor, or injecting directly into
the filter intake, in hopes of lowering the maintenance required. You do have
to rinse the Eheim diffusor's ceramic disk every week or two, to keep the CO2
bubble size small.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[LeighMo]

>I purchased one of these systems in July (inc. needle valve), and have
>been more than pleased with it on my 29 gallon tank. I was willing to
>spend a few extra bucks for someone else to figure out all of the
>various fitting sizes etc. and save a day of driving from welding shop
>to welding shop.

Yes, that's how it was for me, too. I did a lot of research, and found several
Web pages describing how to do it, but I still wasn't sure what kind of
regulator to get, what kind of fittings were needed, etc. The people who sell
CO2 refills have no clue about using CO2 for fishtanks, so they weren't much
help. I probably wouldn't be using compressed CO2 today, if Dave didn't offer
complete kits meant for planted tanks.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[LeighMo]

>How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180 gallon?

See this page:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/2637/

With a lot of scrounging and some DIY, he made a complete compressed CO2 system
for $100.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Jim Miller]

i've found that the little rena 2" diffusers do a good job of maintaining a
small bubble size over an extended period. i've tried several other
"airstones" as well as limewood diffusers and they all seem to generate
large bubbles from the start or soon thereafter.

when i say small i mean bubbles small enough that >70% (approximately)
disappear within 8" of water column. with a 75G i don't think anything would
make it to the top if the diffuser was at the bottom.

if you use the rena make sure to trim the lip of the rubber at the top
otherwise it will collect the fine bubbles into larger ones.

jtm

--
Remove NOSPAM for email replies
"LeighMo" > wrote in message
...
>Possibly a bigger issue with the Dave Gomberg high pressure system, if
>it's the same as when I bought mine several years ago, is that the
>tiny little Eheim diffusor isn't very effective in large tanks.

It's fine in my 75 gallon. I believe Chuck uses a wet-dry filter, which
tends
to lose a lot of CO2. The Eheim will probably be fine with any "normal"
filter.

I am considering switching to some kind of reactor, or injecting directly
into
the filter intake, in hopes of lowering the maintenance required. You do
have
to rinse the Eheim diffusor's ceramic disk every week or two, to keep the
CO2
bubble size small.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Dustin]

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Alright,

By a tank dump then, you are talking about alot of co2 *gas form* comming
out all at once and sufficating the fish?

I thought you meant liquid comming through and contaminating the water. I
called the welding shop, where I bought the co2 tank, and they said the
liquid could only come out if there was a tub inside the tank, which is
normally only used for large tanks *50gal+* or Paint Ball Tanks.

Which needle valve do you prefer, or is there such a thing?

Thanks!

Dustin
"Chuck Gadd" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:58:26 -0800, "Dustin"
> > wrote:
>
> >THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
> >know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all
the
> >fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the
> >product is junk?
>
> The product is perfectly fine. The problem is that the system doesn't
> use a needle valve.
>
> But even without a needle valve, the system is SAFE, and works fine.
> The issue is what is known as an "end of tank dump". Co2 regulators
> are intended to operate with a tank pressure of 800-2000 psi (CO2
> pressure will never get that high, it's usually around 800-1000psi).
> On the regulator, the high pressure gauge is marked in red from
> 0-600psi. This is because, when the CO2 runs out, the tank pressure
> drops down. The regulator is unable to properly regulate when the
> tank pressure is very low. In theory, anything below 600psi is a
> problem. In practice, I've run my regulator (from Dave Gomberg) down
> to 300-400psi with no "dump". But in any case, once the pressure
> drops below the regulators minimum, the regulator looses the ability
> to regulate the output properly, and the output pressure will rise.
>
> Since with the "high pressure system" the pressure directly controls
> the bubble rate, this rising output pressure results in a CO2
> overdose.
>
> At the extreme end, the regulator can completely loose control when
> the tank pressure drops very far. At that point, it would vent all
> the remaining CO2 in a sudden burst.
>
> For all of these cases, simply adding a needle valve will provide a
> safety net.
>
> But, if you keep an eye on the tank pressure, it's easy to notice
> BEFORE the tank pressure drops very far. Unlike watching your car's
> gas gauge, the CO2 pressure will remain constant (around 800-1000psi
> depending on the temp) until the tank is 99% empty. When the CO2 tank
> is filled, the CO2 is under pressure, and is in a liquid form. As
> long as ANY liquid CO2 remains in the tank, the pressure stays at that
> 800-1000psi. Once all the liquid is gone, the pressure will start to
> drop.
>
> On my tank, with a fairly high CO2 flow rate, I would get about a week
> from the time the pressure first started to drop, till it reached the
> 600psi mark. So even without a needle-valve, if you glance at the
> CO2 pressure once every few days, you will see it in time to prevent a
> problem.
>
> On my system, with a needle-valve, I intentionally let the pressure
> drop all the way down. I run the regulator pressure at about 6psi
> normally, and then control the bubble rate with the needle-valve. I
> usually have a bubble rate around 2-3 bubble per second. As the tank
> pressure dropped below 300psi, the output pressure rose up slowly to
> about 15-20psi. I never saw a true "end of tank dump" with a big
> spike in output pressure. And the bubble rate (because of the needle
> valve) didn't increase much, less than 1 extra bubble per second.
>
> Possibly a bigger issue with the Dave Gomberg high pressure system, if
> it's the same as when I bought mine several years ago, is that the
> tiny little Eheim diffusor isn't very effective in large tanks. In my
> 75g, I was unable to get acceptable CO2 levels using it. I ditched
> the eheim diffusor, added a needle-valve, and built my DIY reactor,
> and I've been very happy ever since.
>
>
> Chuck Gadd
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Chuck Gadd]

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:31:51 -0800, "Dustin"
> wrote:

>By a tank dump then, you are talking about alot of co2 *gas form* comming
>out all at once and sufficating the fish?

Yes. It doesn't actually sufficate the fish, but the end result can
be the same...

>I thought you meant liquid comming through and contaminating the water. I

No. Any liquid CO2 that did come out would quickly expand into gas,
so it wouldn't really "contaminate" the water. But liquid CO2 can't
come out of the system unless the tank was a "syphon" tank with a tube
specifically built into the tank to draw up liquid, or maybe if you
inverted the CO2 tank. The liquid CO2 would probably be stopped by
the regulator anyway. And the regulator might be damaged by the
liquid CO2. (it freezes the seals, etc)

>Which needle valve do you prefer, or is there such a thing?

I just bought one sold for planted tank use. I don't know anything
special about them. Buy one from Dave Gomberg, or Aquabotanic, M3.
You might be able to find one somewhere else for a few bucks cheaper,
but I wouldn't know what specs to look for.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Dustin]

Thanks Chuck!

I got a needle Valve and Check Valve from Robert at Aquabotanic. He was a
great help and friendly too :)

I called the local welding supply and they said they had fitting for the
regulator, so I guess im gonna be set haha.

Thanks Everyone!
"Chuck Gadd" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:31:51 -0800, "Dustin"
> > wrote:
>
> >By a tank dump then, you are talking about alot of co2 *gas form* comming
> >out all at once and sufficating the fish?
>
> Yes. It doesn't actually sufficate the fish, but the end result can
> be the same...
>
> >I thought you meant liquid comming through and contaminating the water.
I
>
> No. Any liquid CO2 that did come out would quickly expand into gas,
> so it wouldn't really "contaminate" the water. But liquid CO2 can't
> come out of the system unless the tank was a "syphon" tank with a tube
> specifically built into the tank to draw up liquid, or maybe if you
> inverted the CO2 tank. The liquid CO2 would probably be stopped by
> the regulator anyway. And the regulator might be damaged by the
> liquid CO2. (it freezes the seals, etc)
>
> >Which needle valve do you prefer, or is there such a thing?
>
> I just bought one sold for planted tank use. I don't know anything
> special about them. Buy one from Dave Gomberg, or Aquabotanic, M3.
> You might be able to find one somewhere else for a few bucks cheaper,
> but I wouldn't know what specs to look for.
>
>
> Chuck Gadd
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Chuck Gadd]

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:37:23 -0800, "Dustin"
> wrote:

>I got a needle Valve and Check Valve from Robert at Aquabotanic. He was a
>great help and friendly too :)

Definitely a class act.

>I called the local welding supply and they said they had fitting for the
>regulator, so I guess im gonna be set haha.

Sounds great. There's always someone helpful around here if you hit
any questions. One good suggestion I heard regarding setting up a
new CO2 system: When you first set it up, be sure you will be
available to monitor things for the first 24 hours. Start out with a
low bubble rate, don't try to drop the pH too far too fast. Adjust it
a little at a time, until you get the pH where you want it.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Dustin]

Ok Great, Ill keep that in mind :)

As Always, Thanks for the help!


Dustin

"Chuck Gadd" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:37:23 -0800, "Dustin"
> > wrote:
>
> >I got a needle Valve and Check Valve from Robert at Aquabotanic. He was
a
> >great help and friendly too :)
>
> Definitely a class act.
>
> >I called the local welding supply and they said they had fitting for the
> >regulator, so I guess im gonna be set haha.
>
> Sounds great. There's always someone helpful around here if you hit
> any questions. One good suggestion I heard regarding setting up a
> new CO2 system: When you first set it up, be sure you will be
> available to monitor things for the first 24 hours. Start out with a
> low bubble rate, don't try to drop the pH too far too fast. Adjust it
> a little at a time, until you get the pH where you want it.
>
>
>
> Chuck Gadd
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Joe Ferenchik]

On 30 Dec 2002 03:16:17 GMT, (LeighMo) wrote:

>>Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would
>>I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it.

That's quite a bit of light output. Here's my setup and story.

I've had tanks off and on since I was a teenager (now 46). Presently
I've got a 75G AGA tank (48L X 18D X 20H). I started the planted tank
expedition with just the 2 T12 tubes that fit in the AGA dual tube
hood, and no type of co2 injection whatsoever. The plants didn't do
well at all. I figured that they needed a little co2 so I sprung for a
carbo-plus. While this device might work well in a smaller tank I
noticed that there wasn't much of a co2/ppm increase even with it
running full bore (ph and hardness didn't change at all) with it's
use. The replacement cost of the carbon blocks isn't cheap either. So
I figured that it was time to bite the bullet, and go for broke, if I
was going to do the "live plant thing". I got the retro 2x55w kit from
ahsupply. I followed the directions to the letter for the
installation. I made the mistake of turning it on while it was "bulbs
up" to see just how bright it actually was. My eyes haven't been the
same since. Ya need a welding hood to look at this setup!!!!! I also
sprung for all the necessary items needed for compressed co2
injection. I got a 5G tank from a local welding supplier, and the
regulator, hoses, needle valve, and diffuser from Dave Gomberg
(wcf.com). I got a bunch of different plants from one of the various
sources on the net and set up my tank with the real plants. They did
well for the first month, and as their natural reserves were depleted
they started to decdline in growth and looks. I got a horrendous algae
outbreak, and figured that I wasn't adding fertilizer in enough
quantity, and frequency to keep the plants out competing the algae. I
upped the dose rate, with reservation that I might actually give the
algae more food to dine on. To my amazement the algae almost
disappeared in a matter of days, and of course the plants took off and
look much better now that they are getting the nourishment they need.
So I guess in closing I'm stating that with my 75G I'm having good
luck with 110 watts of light. The plants pearl nicely and if there is
a broken leaf vein there is usually a steady stream of o2 bubbles
rising to the surface. Even with all of the info available on the net
from seasoned aquascapers your setup is going to be a trial and error
process. For those that care, here are the tank particulars...

ph 7.4-7.6

hardness about 7-8

ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates all measure 0.0

2 big boxes of laterite intermixed in gravel substrate

filtration is a Magnum 350 pro with marbles in the charcoal canister
to keep it from collapsing, as the filter sleeve loads up.

water changes are about 25% every other week with a complete filter
cleaning (bio wheels are NEVER cleaned) and about a tablespoon of salt
added per gallon (4tbs per change). No ill effects with the added
salt.

fertilization is liquid via water column, as well as root tabs.

Mobile inhabitants.
3 wild angels
tetras, 6 head and tail light, 5 cardinal, 1 blue
4 silver hatchets
2 pineapple swordtails
2 black sailfin mollies
4 yo-yo (pakastani) loaches
2 do-jo (weather) loaches
6 zebra danios
3 glass cats
2 guppies
2 leopard corys
probably something else I'm forgetting since the tank lights are
presently off.

I also had a pair of kuhli loach juvies but they were so small that I
think they were harassed to death.

I also tried a pair of apple snails but the yo-yo's made a meal out of
them

had fiddler crabs with a biosphere for quite awhile. They did well
except for the one that managed to get out of the tank. The beagle had
a ball with it for awhile!!!



Planted inhabitants
2 amazon swords
2 dwarf hairgrass
1 java fern on driftwood
2 crypt wendtii
1 anubias nana round leaf
1 madagascar lace
5 anacharis
15 ambulia
15 green cabomba
5 hornwort floating (since removed) messy real messy
5 corkscrew vals
5 microswords

all inhabitants appear healthy and happy since I upped the fertilizer

joe

[Joe Ferenchik]

Hi Dustin,

A lot of this reiterates what Chuck states...

You're actually talking about 2 different things here. What happens in
a tank dump is that the regulator tries to equalize the pressure on
both sides of itself, thereby continuously adding co2 to the aquarium
at a rate faster than it can be used. The easiest way to avoid this is
to use a needle valve between the regulator and tank. I got the one
from Dave Gomberg (wcf.com) and I'm very pleased with it. Now with a
tank dump here's what happens. Co2 is added to the tank so fast that
most of it escapes to the atmosphere. With a tight fitting aquarium
cover the co2 will blanket the waters surface, and prohibit an oxygen
exchange. This is what kills the fish. There is no oxygen available at
the waters surface since it's all co2. I don't know for certain if
this phenomena will happen with a tank that doesn't have a cover on
it. The easiest way to avoid a tank dump is to use a needle valve and
watch the regulator pressure on the tank side (high gauge) of the
regulator. As long as there is co2 liquid in the pressurized tank your
pressure will remain constant at somewhere near 800 psi. When all of
the liquid is depleted the pressure will start to drop on the high
side of the regulator. It's going to take some time for it to get from
800 psi or so to 200-500 psi, where you're getting near the "failure"
point of the regulator. I've also read that if this "tank dump"
happens damage to the regulator is likely. IME with the "dose rate"
I'm using it takes about 2 weeks for the tank to get to 500 psi. At
that point I disconnect the regulator and the tank and I take a short
ride to the welding shop. The only way to get liquid from the
pressurized tank to your aquarium is if the pressurized tank has
liquid in it and it falls over. The way I prohibit this is to tie it
to the center brace in the tank stand.

I think the reference you're speaking of with liquid getting into the
aquarium has to do with the sugar/yeast method of generating carbon
dioxide. I'm completely green on that subject, and I'll leave that to
someone that knows what they're talking about.


On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:31:51 -0800, "Dustin"
> wrote:

>Alright,
>
>By a tank dump then, you are talking about alot of co2 *gas form* comming
>out all at once and sufficating the fish?
>
>I thought you meant liquid comming through and contaminating the water. I
>called the welding shop, where I bought the co2 tank, and they said the
>liquid could only come out if there was a tub inside the tank, which is
>normally only used for large tanks *50gal+* or Paint Ball Tanks.
>
>Which needle valve do you prefer, or is there such a thing?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Dustin
>"Chuck Gadd" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:58:26 -0800, "Dustin"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
>> >know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all
>the
>> >fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the
>> >product is junk?
>>
>> The product is perfectly fine. The problem is that the system doesn't
>> use a needle valve.
>>
>> But even without a needle valve, the system is SAFE, and works fine.
>> The issue is what is known as an "end of tank dump". Co2 regulators
>> are intended to operate with a tank pressure of 800-2000 psi (CO2
>> pressure will never get that high, it's usually around 800-1000psi).
>> On the regulator, the high pressure gauge is marked in red from
>> 0-600psi. This is because, when the CO2 runs out, the tank pressure
>> drops down. The regulator is unable to properly regulate when the
>> tank pressure is very low. In theory, anything below 600psi is a
>> problem. In practice, I've run my regulator (from Dave Gomberg) down
>> to 300-400psi with no "dump". But in any case, once the pressure
>> drops below the regulators minimum, the regulator looses the ability
>> to regulate the output properly, and the output pressure will rise.
>>
>> Since with the "high pressure system" the pressure directly controls
>> the bubble rate, this rising output pressure results in a CO2
>> overdose.
>>
>> At the extreme end, the regulator can completely loose control when
>> the tank pressure drops very far. At that point, it would vent all
>> the remaining CO2 in a sudden burst.
>>
>> For all of these cases, simply adding a needle valve will provide a
>> safety net.
>>
>> But, if you keep an eye on the tank pressure, it's easy to notice
>> BEFORE the tank pressure drops very far. Unlike watching your car's
>> gas gauge, the CO2 pressure will remain constant (around 800-1000psi
>> depending on the temp) until the tank is 99% empty. When the CO2 tank
>> is filled, the CO2 is under pressure, and is in a liquid form. As
>> long as ANY liquid CO2 remains in the tank, the pressure stays at that
>> 800-1000psi. Once all the liquid is gone, the pressure will start to
>> drop.
>>
>> On my tank, with a fairly high CO2 flow rate, I would get about a week
>> from the time the pressure first started to drop, till it reached the
>> 600psi mark. So even without a needle-valve, if you glance at the
>> CO2 pressure once every few days, you will see it in time to prevent a
>> problem.
>>
>> On my system, with a needle-valve, I intentionally let the pressure
>> drop all the way down. I run the regulator pressure at about 6psi
>> normally, and then control the bubble rate with the needle-valve. I
>> usually have a bubble rate around 2-3 bubble per second. As the tank
>> pressure dropped below 300psi, the output pressure rose up slowly to
>> about 15-20psi. I never saw a true "end of tank dump" with a big
>> spike in output pressure. And the bubble rate (because of the needle
>> valve) didn't increase much, less than 1 extra bubble per second.
>>
>> Possibly a bigger issue with the Dave Gomberg high pressure system, if
>> it's the same as when I bought mine several years ago, is that the
>> tiny little Eheim diffusor isn't very effective in large tanks. In my
>> 75g, I was unable to get acceptable CO2 levels using it. I ditched
>> the eheim diffusor, added a needle-valve, and built my DIY reactor,
>> and I've been very happy ever since.
>>
>>
>> Chuck Gadd
>> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
>

[Chuck Gadd]

On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:49:08 -0600, Joe Ferenchik
> wrote:

>exchange. This is what kills the fish. There is no oxygen available at
>the waters surface since it's all co2. I don't know for certain if
>this phenomena will happen with a tank that doesn't have a cover on

I've seen a CO2 overdose (not caused by end-of-tank dump, but rather
due to a faulty pH probe/controller), which killed a bunch of fish in
an open-top tank. The deaths were caused not by lack of O2, but
rather by the massive amount of CO2.

>ride to the welding shop. The only way to get liquid from the
>pressurized tank to your aquarium is if the pressurized tank has
>liquid in it and it falls over.

Even then you probably wouldn't get liquid CO2 out. It would be
stopped by the regulator, but it might damage the regulator.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Bruce Geist]

Chuck,

Is your CO2 flowing at the same rate all the time? I seem to recall
sometime ago, you mentioned that you leave your CO2 going even at night. If
this is the case, how much PH fluctuation do you normally see during any
given 24 hour period?

I saw an article on your site regarding constructing a wet/dry filter. I
assume you use a wet/dry filter, right? Does this sort of filtration allow
you to more easily stabilize input and outgo of CO2 in the water? I wonder
if this makes CO2 injection without a controller easier.. what is your
feeling on this? If you were to use a different filter, like a canister
filter that is enclosed and therefore not amenable to CO2 dissipation, do
you think it would be more difficult to regulate CO2 (without a controller)?
Just curious.

I personally would have a much harder time maintaining conditions in my tank
without a controller, since I am not near my tank much during the week. A
controller has worked well for me for the past couple of years.

-Bruce Geist


"Chuck Gadd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:49:08 -0600, Joe Ferenchik
> > wrote:
>
> >exchange. This is what kills the fish. There is no oxygen available at
> >the waters surface since it's all co2. I don't know for certain if
> >this phenomena will happen with a tank that doesn't have a cover on
>
> I've seen a CO2 overdose (not caused by end-of-tank dump, but rather
> due to a faulty pH probe/controller), which killed a bunch of fish in
> an open-top tank. The deaths were caused not by lack of O2, but
> rather by the massive amount of CO2.
>
> >ride to the welding shop. The only way to get liquid from the
> >pressurized tank to your aquarium is if the pressurized tank has
> >liquid in it and it falls over.
>
> Even then you probably wouldn't get liquid CO2 out. It would be
> stopped by the regulator, but it might damage the regulator.
>
>
> Chuck Gadd
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Chuck Gadd]

On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:27:01 -0500, "Bruce Geist"
> wrote:
>Is your CO2 flowing at the same rate all the time?

yes

>sometime ago, you mentioned that you leave your CO2 going even at night. If
>this is the case, how much PH fluctuation do you normally see during any
>given 24 hour period?

6.8 during the day, 6.6 in the AM before the lights come on..

>I saw an article on your site regarding constructing a wet/dry filter. I
>assume you use a wet/dry filter, right? Does this sort of filtration allow
>you to more easily stabilize input and outgo of CO2 in the water? I wonder
>if this makes CO2 injection without a controller easier.. what is your

Possibly. In a tank with the absolute minimum CO2 loss, it's
reasonable to expect slightly higher CO2 accumulation during the
night.

I don't know that it's really necessary to maintain extremely stable
CO2 levels. In nature, it's common for nighttime CO2 levels to be
higher than daytime levels. This is a natural swing. In fact, this
natural CO2 swing might even be beneficial to plant growth. Here's a
study that found improved growth when CO2 levels were allowed to drift
higher at night:

http://www.co2science.org/journal/2002/v5n4b1.htm



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Bruce Geist]

> 6.8 during the day, 6.6 in the AM before the lights come on..
>
My PH fluctuates from 6.65 to 6.75 with the controler-- which is really not
that much less variance than what you have been able to achieve without a
controler. Are you able to set your flow rate and let it go for a while
without fear, or do your really need to check it often during a day? How
long does it take you to get re-set after swapping out your CO2 cylinder?

> Possibly. In a tank with the absolute minimum CO2 loss, it's
> reasonable to expect slightly higher CO2 accumulation during the
> night.
>
> I don't know that it's really necessary to maintain extremely stable
> CO2 levels. In nature, it's common for nighttime CO2 levels to be
> higher than daytime levels. This is a natural swing. In fact, this
> natural CO2 swing might even be beneficial to plant growth. Here's a
> study that found improved growth when CO2 levels were allowed to drift
> higher at night:
>
> http://www.co2science.org/journal/2002/v5n4b1.htm
>
Interesting article. Thanks. (I am amazed there is journal called "CO2
Science", glad to know about it.)

A .2 variation is nothing! I don't know that I ever succeeded in getting
that little bit of a swing without a controller. I think the best I ever
did was about .5 swing, which I thought might start killing fish (especially
since that is the BEST I ever did).

Well if I ever re-do my CO2 system, I may try getting a wet/dry filter and
(probably more importantly) a better CO2 regulator/needle valve. I have
trouble at times getting a consistent flow through my regulator/needle valve
combination, particularly after I change the CO2 tank -Bruce Geist

[Chuck Gadd]

On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:41:29 -0500, "Bruce Geist"
> wrote:

>controler. Are you able to set your flow rate and let it go for a while
>without fear, or do your really need to check it often during a day? How

I haven't looked at or adjusted the bubble rate in at least several
months.

>long does it take you to get re-set after swapping out your CO2 cylinder?

I don't change the needle-valve or regulator setting when swapping out
the cylinder, so it doesn't take any time to get it re-set.

Every week or so, I check the pH, and I glance in the CO2 reactor. If
the pH is out of line, or if the amount of CO2 swirling around in the
reactor doesn't look right, I might tweak the needle valve slightly.

>that little bit of a swing without a controller. I think the best I ever
>did was about .5 swing, which I thought might start killing fish

A pH swing won't kill fish. Extremely high CO2 levels might, but a
small pH variation due to CO2 levels won't effect fish. The cases
where pH changes can hurt the fish are when the different pH is due to
different levels of hardness.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Christopher Beeckler]

you might want to think about acryllic tanks for this size, it will make
them far lighter, and the rounded edges look nice
"Dustin" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the input you two :)
>
> I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, I got a better discount
> since I am friends with the manager, 599.00 Im guessing that is a good
> price :)
>
> Any suggestions for lighting this for plant growth? :)
> Thanks!
> "Bruce Geist" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a 135 gallon tank that is 24 inches high. Leigh, as usual, gives
> > excellent adivce. She (I hope you are a she Leigh-- if not then I
> > appologise in advance..) is right about the light, though I find that
even
> > though its tougher to light the bottom of the tank, 25 inches is not
> > insurmoutable-- especially if you are going to terrace. In addition, I
> > personally think that less than 24 inches looks a little funny with a
> > canopy. You may (or may not) choose to place a canopy over the top of
the
> > tank-- but assess how you think it may look with the shallower tank in
the
> > event you do want a canopy. Keep in mind also that there may be plants
> that
> > you want to keep that get tall. It may be nice to have certain sections
> of
> > the tank that are deeper than others. Just keep in mind that you may
have
> > trouble with high light plants in the deep areas.
> >
> > Certainly the "long arms" issue is real also. If you are a small
person,
> > then you may want to avoid buying a tank that is too deep for you to
reach
> > into. I know my wife would have a hard time reaching the bottom of my
135
> > gallon tank. I do not have a problem with this depth-- though any
deeper
> > would become a hassel.
> >
> > In summay, my cutoff would be about 24 inches-- not 21 inches. 25
inches
> > may be problematic, but its worthy of careful consideration.
> >
> > For what its worth, that is my 2 cents. -Bruce Geist
> >
> > LeighMo > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >Id like a 75 or 90 from all-glass. Which of these is better for the
> > planted
> > > >aquarium in yoru optinion, and where is the best tank for my buck?
any
> > mail
> > > >orders, or something to that effect?
> > >
> > > Ordinarily, bigger is better, but for a planted tank, I'd go with the
75
> > > gallon.
> > > The 90 and the 75 have the same "footprint." The only difference is
the
> > 75 is
> > > 21" high, and the 90 is just over 25" high. A planted tank deeper
than
> > 24" can
> > > be difficult. That depth is hard to light adequately. (You wouldn't
> > think
> > > only a few inches would make a difference, but it does, because light
> > intensity
> > > falls exponentially with distance.)
> > >
> > > A planted tank also requires constant maintenance, and if the tank is
> that
> > > deep, it will be difficult (unless you have really long arms!). I've
> > heard of
> > > people who accidentally poisoned all their fish, because they reached
> into
> > a
> > > deep tank without showering first, and their underarm deodorant got
into
> > the
> > > tank.
> > >
> > > As for price...mail order for a tank this size is not economical. The
> > shipping
> > > will kill you. Your best bet is probably to order it from a chain
like
> > PetCo.
> > > The big chains use tanks as "loss leaders," selling them at a loss in
> > hopes
> > > that they'll make it up by selling you fish, accessories, etc. Call
> > around
> > > your LFSs and ask, but IME, the small local shops will all charge
> hundreds
> > of
> > > dollars more than the big chains. The local shops around here all
> wanted
> > $700
> > > to $800 for an All-Glass 75 gallon economy tank and stand. PetCo
asked
> > $325
> > > for tank, stand, and glass canopy top.
> > >
> > >
> > > Leigh
> > >
> > > http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
> >
> >
>
>