Is this gasping for air

[Scott Rogahn]

Two days ago I started injecting CO2 using the Hagen natural plant system.
To avoid loss of CO2 I turned off the air driven under gravel filters. UGFs
seem to be frowned upon for planted tanks anyway. The surface is still
agitated by the Millennium 2000 hang on back type filter. This filter takes
in air at the impeller and bubbles it across a grid before the filter pad
which they call at wet/dry filter. Other than that no air has bubbled
though this tank. The filter is set to low to further minimize surface
agitation.

This morning I looked at the fish before the lights turned on. The zebra
danios and the golden clouds were all swimming about 1 inch from the water
surface. They did not seem to be in distress as best as I could tell in
dark. These fish do not normally stay at the surface during the day so this
is different behavior.

The clown loaches, SAEs and ottos were much deeper in the water and appeared
normal.

Is this gasping or some other sign of low oxygen?

My PH has dropped from off the scale (I am using the test kit for my pool,
Max is 8.0) to 8.0, so I believe the CO2 injection is working. I can see
the bubbles get smaller as they travel though the diffuser, which also tells
me the CO2 is dissolving in the water. I don't know actual levels. The Red
Sea Plant Care Mini Lab test kit is about worthless. I tried to measure CO2
before injecting. The test indicated more than 20ppm. What is a good test
kit For Kh, PH and CO2? The Red Sea kit does not measure PH and Kh like I
thought it would but rather a single test which reads CO2 directly. If it
worked witch it doesn't

I do know the total alkalinity of my tap water is very high. I need to a
lot of Muriatic acid to my pool at the start of each season. Muratic acid
seems strong to add to the fish. So I haven't. Aquarium PH down does
nothing however.

[LeighMo]

>Two days ago I started injecting CO2 using the Hagen natural plant system.
>To avoid loss of CO2 I turned off the air driven under gravel filters.

Yikes! Make sure you monitor your water parameters. Check for ammonia and
nitrite. You just killed off your biological filter. It might be okay, if you
have another filter on the tank, and lots of healthy plants. Still...keep an
eye on it.

>Is this gasping or some other sign of low oxygen?

It might be. I noticed oxygen was low in my tank when I saw all the fish in
the top half of the tank in the morning. They weren't actually at the surface,
they weren't gasping...but it was unusual, that they were all in the top half
of the tank. Putting in a powerhead fixed the problem.

However, I would measure for ammonia and nitrite before assuming it's low
oxygen.

>My PH has dropped from off the scale (I am using the test kit for my pool,
>Max is 8.0) to 8.0, so I believe the CO2 injection is working. I can see
>the bubbles get smaller as they travel though the diffuser, which also tells
>me the CO2 is dissolving in the water. I don't know actual levels.

It would be good to know just how much CO2 is in the water. It is possible to
have too much.

>What is a good test
>kit For Kh, PH and CO2?

I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Judging from what has been posted here in the
past, the Red Sea test kits are worse than useless. I don't buy them, even if
they are the only ones in the store.

If your water is very alkaline, look for a high-range or wide-range pH test
kit. I think my wide-range pH test kit is by Tetra, and it works very well.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[rnj]

Leaving the UGF in the tank without circulation causes a void where
anaerobic (swamp gas) conditions can occur. Your fish are starting to suffer
from Nitrite and ammonia that is slowly diffusing though the gravel. Gasping
is a sign of stress that can be caused by lack of oxygen, chlorine, ammonia,
nitrite, high or low pH, and disease. If you're not going to use the UGF,
take it out. One of the reasons that plants don't due well with them is that
the roots like to be covered with gravel. That empty void stops the roots
from growing properly.


"Scott Rogahn" > wrote in message
...
> Two days ago I started injecting CO2 using the Hagen natural plant system.
> To avoid loss of CO2 I turned off the air driven under gravel filters.
UGFs
> seem to be frowned upon for planted tanks anyway. The surface is still
> agitated by the Millennium 2000 hang on back type filter. This filter
takes
> in air at the impeller and bubbles it across a grid before the filter pad
> which they call at wet/dry filter. Other than that no air has bubbled
> though this tank. The filter is set to low to further minimize surface
> agitation.
>
> This morning I looked at the fish before the lights turned on. The zebra
> danios and the golden clouds were all swimming about 1 inch from the water
> surface. They did not seem to be in distress as best as I could tell in
> dark. These fish do not normally stay at the surface during the day so
this
> is different behavior.
>
> The clown loaches, SAEs and ottos were much deeper in the water and
appeared
> normal.
>
> Is this gasping or some other sign of low oxygen?
>
> My PH has dropped from off the scale (I am using the test kit for my pool,
> Max is 8.0) to 8.0, so I believe the CO2 injection is working. I can see
> the bubbles get smaller as they travel though the diffuser, which also
tells
> me the CO2 is dissolving in the water. I don't know actual levels. The
Red
> Sea Plant Care Mini Lab test kit is about worthless. I tried to measure
CO2
> before injecting. The test indicated more than 20ppm. What is a good
test
> kit For Kh, PH and CO2? The Red Sea kit does not measure PH and Kh like I
> thought it would but rather a single test which reads CO2 directly. If it
> worked witch it doesn't
>
> I do know the total alkalinity of my tap water is very high. I need to a
> lot of Muriatic acid to my pool at the start of each season. Muratic acid
> seems strong to add to the fish. So I haven't. Aquarium PH down does
> nothing however.
>
>

[Frank Mamone]

You can calculate your CO2 levels by measuring your KH and PH.

Look here: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm



"LeighMo" > wrote in message
...
> >Two days ago I started injecting CO2 using the Hagen natural plant
system.
> >To avoid loss of CO2 I turned off the air driven under gravel filters.
>
> Yikes! Make sure you monitor your water parameters. Check for ammonia
and
> nitrite. You just killed off your biological filter. It might be okay,
if you
> have another filter on the tank, and lots of healthy plants. Still...keep
an
> eye on it.
>
> >Is this gasping or some other sign of low oxygen?
>
> It might be. I noticed oxygen was low in my tank when I saw all the fish
in
> the top half of the tank in the morning. They weren't actually at the
surface,
> they weren't gasping...but it was unusual, that they were all in the top
half
> of the tank. Putting in a powerhead fixed the problem.
>
> However, I would measure for ammonia and nitrite before assuming it's low
> oxygen.
>
> >My PH has dropped from off the scale (I am using the test kit for my
pool,
> >Max is 8.0) to 8.0, so I believe the CO2 injection is working. I can see
> >the bubbles get smaller as they travel though the diffuser, which also
tells
> >me the CO2 is dissolving in the water. I don't know actual levels.
>
> It would be good to know just how much CO2 is in the water. It is
possible to
> have too much.
>
> >What is a good test
> >kit For Kh, PH and CO2?
>
> I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Judging from what has been posted here in
the
> past, the Red Sea test kits are worse than useless. I don't buy them,
even if
> they are the only ones in the store.
>
> If your water is very alkaline, look for a high-range or wide-range pH
test
> kit. I think my wide-range pH test kit is by Tetra, and it works very
well.
>
>
> Leigh
>
> http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Scott Rogahn]

I turned the air pump back on. The gang value to the airstones does not
adjust well, they are either on or off. so I can't slow the air bubbles.
Would a power head agitate the surface less than the air stone. If so would
I need a power head for each riser? If I use one power head what stops
water from being draw down the other riser rather than through the gravel?

"rnj" > wrote in message
...
> Leaving the UGF in the tank without circulation causes a void where
> anaerobic (swamp gas) conditions can occur. Your fish are starting to
suffer
> from Nitrite and ammonia that is slowly diffusing though the gravel.
Gasping
> is a sign of stress that can be caused by lack of oxygen, chlorine,
ammonia,
> nitrite, high or low pH, and disease. If you're not going to use the UGF,
> take it out. One of the reasons that plants don't due well with them is
that
> the roots like to be covered with gravel. That empty void stops the roots
> from growing properly.
>
>
> "Scott Rogahn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Two days ago I started injecting CO2 using the Hagen natural plant
system.
> > To avoid loss of CO2 I turned off the air driven under gravel filters.
> UGFs
> > seem to be frowned upon for planted tanks anyway. The surface is still
> > agitated by the Millennium 2000 hang on back type filter. This filter
> takes
> > in air at the impeller and bubbles it across a grid before the filter
pad
> > which they call at wet/dry filter. Other than that no air has bubbled
> > though this tank. The filter is set to low to further minimize surface
> > agitation.
> >
> > This morning I looked at the fish before the lights turned on. The
zebra
> > danios and the golden clouds were all swimming about 1 inch from the
water
> > surface. They did not seem to be in distress as best as I could tell in
> > dark. These fish do not normally stay at the surface during the day so
> this
> > is different behavior.
> >
> > The clown loaches, SAEs and ottos were much deeper in the water and
> appeared
> > normal.
> >
> > Is this gasping or some other sign of low oxygen?
> >
> > My PH has dropped from off the scale (I am using the test kit for my
pool,
> > Max is 8.0) to 8.0, so I believe the CO2 injection is working. I can
see
> > the bubbles get smaller as they travel though the diffuser, which also
> tells
> > me the CO2 is dissolving in the water. I don't know actual levels. The
> Red
> > Sea Plant Care Mini Lab test kit is about worthless. I tried to measure
> CO2
> > before injecting. The test indicated more than 20ppm. What is a good
> test
> > kit For Kh, PH and CO2? The Red Sea kit does not measure PH and Kh like
I
> > thought it would but rather a single test which reads CO2 directly. If
it
> > worked witch it doesn't
> >
> > I do know the total alkalinity of my tap water is very high. I need to
a
> > lot of Muriatic acid to my pool at the start of each season. Muratic
acid
> > seems strong to add to the fish. So I haven't. Aquarium PH down does
> > nothing however.
> >
> >
>
>

[rnj]

I'd cap one uplift tube, buy a new gang valve and run the single tube with a
minimal air stream. Just enough to pull enough fresh water into the UGF to
prevent anaerobic conditions.

"Scott Rogahn" > wrote in message
...
> I turned the air pump back on. The gang value to the airstones does not
> adjust well, they are either on or off. so I can't slow the air bubbles.
> Would a power head agitate the surface less than the air stone. If so
would
> I need a power head for each riser? If I use one power head what stops
> water from being draw down the other riser rather than through the gravel?
>