Fertilizer Question

[Frank Mamone]

I recently started a planted tank (25G). I added CO2.

I've been mostly lurking here and notice there's plenty of discussion on
additives for the plants. So far I'm just using chelated iron. I noticed it
is being used up everyday.

1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of what the
plants needs?

2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on the
gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking of
replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.

What do you think?

Thanks!

[Dave Millman]

Frank Mamone wrote:

> I recently started a planted tank (25G). I added CO2.
>
> I've been mostly lurking here and notice there's plenty of discussion on
> additives for the plants. So far I'm just using chelated iron. I noticed it
> is being used up everyday.
>
> 1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of what the
> plants needs?

Perhaps, perhaps not, because there are many variables including water, plant
load, fish load, lighting, and substrate. Some folks report doing well with
just Tropica Master Grow, which is a high-quality, high-price product from
Europe. If convenience is your sole objective, start there.


> 2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on the
> gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking of
> replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.

Flourite was the best single decision I've made in this hobby. Plenty of folks
have substrate challenges, I have none.

[Jody]

> 1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of what the
> plants needs?

Dave has already mentioned TMG (Tropica Master Grow) as a good source for
trace elements. You will need a potassium supplement as well. I found
potassium chloride (KCl), or muriate of potash, at Home Depot.

> 2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on the
> gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking of
> replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.

Gravel will work fine for almost all plants. Smaller is better. I was able
to get this using plain gravel (and fish mulm)
http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/j/d/jdjohn/recent.htm
Here's another example from a different Dave
http://www.okcomputerworks.com/aquarium.html

Jody

[Frank Mamone]

Thanks Jody....It's comforting to know that people have been successful with
regula gravel.

Thanks!

"Jody" > wrote in message
.. .
> > 1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of what
the
> > plants needs?
>
> Dave has already mentioned TMG (Tropica Master Grow) as a good source for
> trace elements. You will need a potassium supplement as well. I found
> potassium chloride (KCl), or muriate of potash, at Home Depot.
>
> > 2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on the
> > gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking of
> > replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.
>
> Gravel will work fine for almost all plants. Smaller is better. I was
able
> to get this using plain gravel (and fish mulm)
> http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/j/d/jdjohn/recent.htm
> Here's another example from a different Dave
> http://www.okcomputerworks.com/aquarium.html
>
> Jody
>
>
>

[Jody]

Light and CO2 are the most important things to start with. I see you are
adding CO2. Do you have enough light?

Jody

"Frank Mamone" > wrote in message
.. .
> Thanks Jody....It's comforting to know that people have been successful
with
> regula gravel.
>
> Thanks!
>
> "Jody" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > > 1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of what
> the
> > > plants needs?
> >
> > Dave has already mentioned TMG (Tropica Master Grow) as a good source
for
> > trace elements. You will need a potassium supplement as well. I found
> > potassium chloride (KCl), or muriate of potash, at Home Depot.
> >
> > > 2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on the
> > > gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking of
> > > replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.
> >
> > Gravel will work fine for almost all plants. Smaller is better. I was
> able
> > to get this using plain gravel (and fish mulm)
> > http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/j/d/jdjohn/recent.htm
> > Here's another example from a different Dave
> > http://www.okcomputerworks.com/aquarium.html
> >
> > Jody
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Frank Mamone]

I just added another strip. I think they are 20W each in a 25G tank. So I
should be OK.

I just need to learn about plants. I've had an African tank for over a year
now, so this is diffferent and there's a lot to learn. I ordered some TMG
and will get some pottasium from the Home Depot.

I have plants with the bottom leaves turning brown and one that has new
leaves with brown "veins". I hope this will help. Note that this is a
relatively new setup. I used and established filter/water to start up the
tank.


Thanks


"Jody" > wrote in message
...
> Light and CO2 are the most important things to start with. I see you are
> adding CO2. Do you have enough light?
>
> Jody
>
> "Frank Mamone" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Thanks Jody....It's comforting to know that people have been successful
> with
> > regula gravel.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > "Jody" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > > > 1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of
what
> > the
> > > > plants needs?
> > >
> > > Dave has already mentioned TMG (Tropica Master Grow) as a good source
> for
> > > trace elements. You will need a potassium supplement as well. I
found
> > > potassium chloride (KCl), or muriate of potash, at Home Depot.
> > >
> > > > 2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on
the
> > > > gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking
of
> > > > replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.
> > >
> > > Gravel will work fine for almost all plants. Smaller is better. I
was
> > able
> > > to get this using plain gravel (and fish mulm)
> > > http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/j/d/jdjohn/recent.htm
> > > Here's another example from a different Dave
> > > http://www.okcomputerworks.com/aquarium.html
> > >
> > > Jody
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[tcbiii@NOSPAMearthlink.net]

> 1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of what the
> plants needs?

Yamato green etc is one of the few simple all in fert's.
But it does not add light and CO2.

Plants need 3 basic things: light, CO2 and nutrients. Miss one of
these or get it out of balance, generally= algae.

While adding CO2 is not required, it sure helps a great deal.
For fert's:

KNO3 for NO3 and the extra K
K2SO4 for the K
KH2PO4 for the PO4.
Traces for the trace cations/anions

This give all the practical usage and are the main variables added.

You may need to add baking soda for KH if less than 3 and if the GH is
3 or higher, your okay with that. If not you can add a mix of
CaCl2(Calcium increasaer sold at pool stores sometimes) and
MgSO4(Epsom salt).

> 2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on the
> gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking of
> replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.
> What do you think?
> Thanks!

It will help a good deal. Plants will have better color, health and
root systems. Certainly worth the $ IMO/IME.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[mark]

what is flourite and why is it beter?thx
" > wrote in message
om...
> > 1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of what
the
> > plants needs?
>
> Yamato green etc is one of the few simple all in fert's.
> But it does not add light and CO2.
>
> Plants need 3 basic things: light, CO2 and nutrients. Miss one of
> these or get it out of balance, generally= algae.
>
> While adding CO2 is not required, it sure helps a great deal.
> For fert's:
>
> KNO3 for NO3 and the extra K
> K2SO4 for the K
> KH2PO4 for the PO4.
> Traces for the trace cations/anions
>
> This give all the practical usage and are the main variables added.
>
> You may need to add baking soda for KH if less than 3 and if the GH is
> 3 or higher, your okay with that. If not you can add a mix of
> CaCl2(Calcium increasaer sold at pool stores sometimes) and
> MgSO4(Epsom salt).
>
> > 2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on the
> > gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking of
> > replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.
> > What do you think?
> > Thanks!
>
> It will help a good deal. Plants will have better color, health and
> root systems. Certainly worth the $ IMO/IME.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Barr

[Frank Mamone]

I just added a second strip. It's up to ~ 2WPG.

The CO2 doesn't seem to affect the PH too much. maybe .1 or .2 in the
morning. I have two Aquaclear filers a 200 and a Mini in this 25G tank. I
put the mini in cause it was cycled from an10G tank. I tried putting both on
low to reduce surface agitation but it didn't help much. The CO2 is
releasing about 10 bubbles per second.

I'm using the canister which came with the Hagen Plant-Grow system. I wonder
if I use a DIY soda bottle if I can increase the amount of Co2 injected.

I received my TMG but have not started using yet. I want to get the proper
amount of CO2 in there first so I can tell what made the difference.

The plants are doing OK, but there's a couple that have brown leaves. Maybe
it's normal until the plants settle in?


"Jody" > wrote in message
...
> Light and CO2 are the most important things to start with. I see you are
> adding CO2. Do you have enough light?
>
> Jody
>
> "Frank Mamone" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Thanks Jody....It's comforting to know that people have been successful
> with
> > regula gravel.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > "Jody" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > > > 1) Is there ONE supplement which I can use which includes most of
what
> > the
> > > > plants needs?
> > >
> > > Dave has already mentioned TMG (Tropica Master Grow) as a good source
> for
> > > trace elements. You will need a potassium supplement as well. I
found
> > > potassium chloride (KCl), or muriate of potash, at Home Depot.
> > >
> > > > 2) Also, I am kind of mad at myself for not researching enough on
the
> > > > gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking
of
> > > > replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.
> > >
> > > Gravel will work fine for almost all plants. Smaller is better. I
was
> > able
> > > to get this using plain gravel (and fish mulm)
> > > http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/j/d/jdjohn/recent.htm
> > > Here's another example from a different Dave
> > > http://www.okcomputerworks.com/aquarium.html
> > >
> > > Jody
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Robert Flory]

" > wrote in message
om...
SNIP
>
> You may need to add baking soda for KH if less than 3 and if the GH is
> 3 or higher, your okay with that. If not you can add a mix of
> CaCl2(Calcium increasaer sold at pool stores sometimes) and
> MgSO4(Epsom salt).
>

I think I was sleeping in the back of the class ....

I have GH less than 1 coming out of the tap. I've not worried about that
but with plants and now adding a DIY CO2... I guess I need to do some
more reading up on planted tanks.

My tap KH is 4-5 and drops rapidly to 2 in the tank. I added baking soda
when I added the CO2 to decrease the pH drop. So my KH is up for the
moment.

Elodea started growing like a weed ;-)

Bob

[Jody]

Couple of things:

1. Light: if I remember correctly, 15" tubes are 18W, and 18" tubes are
20W. If you have two 20W tubes on a 25g, that's actually not 2WG, it's 1.6.
That *may* be enough if you have low-light plants. Regular cool white
bulbs, or the GE plant and aquarium bulbs (both from Home Depot) are fine.
Do NOT use soft or warm white bulbs - they are too yellow.

2. CO2: I'm not familiar with the Hagen system you mention. How are you
injecting your CO2?

3. Okay, this is more than a 'couple'. Filter: I use an AquaClear 150 on
my 20g, so I think the 200 you have will be fine on a 25g by itself. A good
rule of thumb is five times your tank volume, so a 125 would be sufficient,
and a 200 is plenty.

Hang in there!
Jody

"Frank Mamone" > wrote in message
...
> I just added a second strip. It's up to ~ 2WPG.
>
> The CO2 doesn't seem to affect the PH too much. maybe .1 or .2 in the
> morning. I have two Aquaclear filers a 200 and a Mini in this 25G tank. I
> put the mini in cause it was cycled from an10G tank. I tried putting both
on
> low to reduce surface agitation but it didn't help much. The CO2 is
> releasing about 10 bubbles per second.
>
> I'm using the canister which came with the Hagen Plant-Grow system. I
wonder
> if I use a DIY soda bottle if I can increase the amount of Co2 injected.
>
> I received my TMG but have not started using yet. I want to get the proper
> amount of CO2 in there first so I can tell what made the difference.
>
> The plants are doing OK, but there's a couple that have brown leaves.
Maybe
> it's normal until the plants settle in?

[Frank Mamone]

Hi Jody ,

See below...

"Jody" > wrote in message
...
> Couple of things:
>
> 1. Light: if I remember correctly, 15" tubes are 18W, and 18" tubes are
> 20W. If you have two 20W tubes on a 25g, that's actually not 2WG, it's
1.6.
> That *may* be enough if you have low-light plants. Regular cool white
> bulbs, or the GE plant and aquarium bulbs (both from Home Depot) are fine.
> Do NOT use soft or warm white bulbs - they are too yellow.
>
True..Which brings up the question when we say WPG are we talking water or
tank size?

> 2. CO2: I'm not familiar with the Hagen system you mention. How are you
> injecting your CO2?
>

It's exactly like a DIY except it comes with a bubble counter/ reactor and a
little canister.
Look here:
http://www.petsmart.com/fish/shopping/live_plant_supplies/products/product_3
3004.shtml

> 3. Okay, this is more than a 'couple'. Filter: I use an AquaClear 150
on
> my 20g, so I think the 200 you have will be fine on a 25g by itself. A
good
> rule of thumb is five times your tank volume, so a 125 would be
sufficient,
> and a 200 is plenty.
>

Yup. I will remove the Mini once the tank is well established.

> Hang in there!
> Jody
>
> "Frank Mamone" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I just added a second strip. It's up to ~ 2WPG.
> >
> > The CO2 doesn't seem to affect the PH too much. maybe .1 or .2 in the
> > morning. I have two Aquaclear filers a 200 and a Mini in this 25G tank.
I
> > put the mini in cause it was cycled from an10G tank. I tried putting
both
> on
> > low to reduce surface agitation but it didn't help much. The CO2 is
> > releasing about 10 bubbles per second.
> >
> > I'm using the canister which came with the Hagen Plant-Grow system. I
> wonder
> > if I use a DIY soda bottle if I can increase the amount of Co2 injected.
> >
> > I received my TMG but have not started using yet. I want to get the
proper
> > amount of CO2 in there first so I can tell what made the difference.
> >
> > The plants are doing OK, but there's a couple that have brown leaves.
> Maybe
> > it's normal until the plants settle in?
>
>
>

[tcbiii@NOSPAMearthlink.net]

> > > gravel. From what I read I should have used Flourite. I'm thinking of
> > > replacing the gravel with it it, or at least mixing some in.
> > > What do you think?
> > > Thanks!
> >
> > It will help a good deal. Plants will have better color, health and
> > root systems. Certainly worth the $ IMO/IME.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tom Barr

Mark asked:

>What is Flourite and why is better?

See above on the better part and it's simple, no layering. It also is
easy to work with, holds roots down better than other stuff I've used,
makes replanting easier.
SeaChem makes it. It's a simple gravel that is great for planted
tanks. Rinse 3x and add to the tank.
That's it. Last forever and no iron is needed etc. There are other
more subtle issues that make it good as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Jody]

"Frank Mamone" > wrote in message
...
> True..Which brings up the question when we say WPG are we talking water
or
> tank size?

Tank size. However, for non-standard shaped tanks like hex, the rule may
not apply. For example, a tank that is much taller than a standard tank may
require more wattage to penetrate down far enough for the plants. WPG is a
general rule, but there are exceptions.

> It's exactly like a DIY except it comes with a bubble counter/ reactor and
a
> little canister.
> Look here:
>
http://www.petsmart.com/fish/shopping/live_plant_supplies/products/product_3
> 3004.shtml

Okay, seems reasonable. 10 bubbles per second should be more than enough
for a 25g assuming the bubbles are dissolving adequately. For the
AquaClears you should keep the tank filled-up enough that it touches the
spillway of the filter; you don't want a waterfall effect.

Jody

[Frank Mamone]

Thanks Jody....I'll work on the waterfalls!


"Jody" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Frank Mamone" > wrote in message
> ...
> > True..Which brings up the question when we say WPG are we talking water
> or
> > tank size?
>
> Tank size. However, for non-standard shaped tanks like hex, the rule may
> not apply. For example, a tank that is much taller than a standard tank
may
> require more wattage to penetrate down far enough for the plants. WPG is
a
> general rule, but there are exceptions.
>
> > It's exactly like a DIY except it comes with a bubble counter/ reactor
and
> a
> > little canister.
> > Look here:
> >
>
http://www.petsmart.com/fish/shopping/live_plant_supplies/products/product_3
> > 3004.shtml
>
> Okay, seems reasonable. 10 bubbles per second should be more than enough
> for a 25g assuming the bubbles are dissolving adequately. For the
> AquaClears you should keep the tank filled-up enough that it touches the
> spillway of the filter; you don't want a waterfall effect.
>
> Jody
>
>
>