weed removal

[RK77]

Hi

Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help as I'm amateur gardener.

I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to make it level.

I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I really have to dig deep to get to them.

Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will still penetrate from there as well.

I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from weed.

Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out or should I just use hand tools.


Thanks in advance for all the help.

[Freckles[_5_]]

"RK77" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hi
>
> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
> as I'm amateur gardener.
>
> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
> make it level.
>
> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
> really have to dig deep to get to them.

You could put down several layers on newspaper over the ground before adding
the additional top soil. The paper should keep the weeds from growing.

Freckles


>
> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
> still penetrate from there as well.
>
> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
> weed.
>
> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
> or should I just use hand tools.
>
>
> Thanks in advance for all the help.
>
>
>
>
> --
> RK77

[David E. Ross]

On 5/9/2009 5:00 PM, RK77 wrote:
> Hi
>
> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
> as I'm amateur gardener.
>
> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
> make it level.
>
> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>
> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
> still penetrate from there as well.
>
> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
> weed.
>
> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
> or should I just use hand tools.
>
>
> Thanks in advance for all the help.

I was on my hands and knees today with a paring knife, getting weeds out
of a decomposed granite walkway. While thinning the fruit on my peach
tree, I also pulled a few weeds from under the tree.

Weed seeds blow in the wind. You can remove all the weeds in your
garden -- roots and all -- and have more weeds next year. Even chemical
herbicides will not give long-term relief.

Face it! You are a gardener. You will be weeding for the rest of your
life.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary>

[z]

On May 9, 8:00*pm, RK77 > wrote:
> Hi
>
> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
> as I'm amateur gardener.
>
> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
> make it level.
>
> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>
> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
> still penetrate from there as well.
>
> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
> weed.
>
> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
> or should I just use hand tools.
>
> Thanks in advance for all the help.
>
> --
> RK77

like the guy says, lay newspaper down then topsoil. that works very
well.

or, you can use roundup on the weeds; that seems to kill them off but
doesn't kill future grass. might take a few sprays though, from my
experience. at least, some weeds seem to die right away, some don't
and i decided to spray them again.

either way, like the other guy says, there's going to be weed seeds
waiting in the new turf, as well as blowing in. but..... once you get
a nice thick healthy lawn, that tends to prevent new weeds from
sprouting, or thriving once they sprout.

[Phisherman[_3_]]

On Sat, 9 May 2009 22:13:03 -0700 (PDT), z >
wrote:

>like the guy says, lay newspaper down then topsoil. that works very
>well.
>



I have tried newspapers (2 or 3 layers) for weed control. This works
for weeds, but found the water would run off the paper away from the
plants, leaving the soil dry.

[Ernie Willson]

z wrote:
> On May 9, 8:00 pm, RK77 > wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
>> as I'm amateur gardener.
>>
>> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
>> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
>> make it level.
>>
>> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
>> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
>> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
>> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>>
>> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
>> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
>> still penetrate from there as well.
>>
>> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
>> weed.
>>
>> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
>> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
>> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
>> or should I just use hand tools.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for all the help.
>>
>> --
>> RK77
>
> like the guy says, lay newspaper down then topsoil. that works very
> well.
>
> or, you can use roundup on the weeds; that seems to kill them off but
> doesn't kill future grass. might take a few sprays though, from my
> experience. at least, some weeds seem to die right away, some don't
> and i decided to spray them again.
>
> either way, like the other guy says, there's going to be weed seeds
> waiting in the new turf, as well as blowing in. but..... once you get
> a nice thick healthy lawn, that tends to prevent new weeds from
> sprouting, or thriving once they sprout.

Roundup will work for the weeds that are growing. IIRC the excess spray
is neutralized by the ground itself. There does not seem to be any
residual problem.

As for new weeds germinating from wind blown seed etc...You can treat
the area with PREEN. This stuff is made of chemicals similar to Tea, and
it removes the seed protective coating. Put simply the seed cannot
germinate once it is in contact with PREEN. IIRC one application lasts
for three months. I use it on my flowerbeds and vegetables.

As mentioned by others, newspaper is very good.

HTH,
EJ in NJ

[kate@notme.com]

On Sun, 10 May 2009 08:18:03 -0400, Phisherman >
wrote:

>On Sat, 9 May 2009 22:13:03 -0700 (PDT), z >
>wrote:
>
>>like the guy says, lay newspaper down then topsoil. that works very
>>well.
>>
>
>
>
>I have tried newspapers (2 or 3 layers) for weed control. This works
>for weeds, but found the water would run off the paper away from the
>plants, leaving the soil dry.

I think Bermuda grass actually likes newspaper. :)

Kate

[Billy[_7_]]

In article
>,
z > wrote:

> On May 9, 8:00*pm, RK77 > wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
> > as I'm amateur gardener.
> >
> > I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
> > okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
> > make it level.
> >
> > I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
> > too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
> > broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
> > really have to dig deep to get to them.
> >
> > Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
> > of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
> > still penetrate from there as well.
> >
> > I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
> > weed.
> >
> > Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
> > there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
> > Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
> > or should I just use hand tools.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for all the help.
> >
> > --
> > RK77
>
> like the guy says, lay newspaper down then topsoil. that works very
> well.
>
> or, you can use roundup on the weeds; that seems to kill them off but
> doesn't kill future grass. might take a few sprays though, from my
> experience. at least, some weeds seem to die right away, some don't
> and i decided to spray them again.
>
> either way, like the other guy says, there's going to be weed seeds
> waiting in the new turf, as well as blowing in. but..... once you get
> a nice thick healthy lawn, that tends to prevent new weeds from
> sprouting, or thriving once they sprout.
That's a great way to learn about biotoxins. Just ask guys what they
think. Too bad you couldn't have a couple of beers while your at it. But
before you let the kids, or the grandkids run out and play on your
chemical lawn you may want to read some of the following.

http://www.naturalnews.com/023254.html
Monsanto: History of Contamination and Cover-up

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php
ISIS Press Release 11/02/09
Death by Multiple Poisoning, Glyphosate and Roundup

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805
Monsanto¹s Harvest of Fear

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup
Health, ecological concerns and controversy
Roundup commercial formulations were never submitted to test by the
United States Environmental Protection Agency? (EPA), its main active
ingredient, glyphosate, received EPA Toxicity Class of III for oral and
inhalation exposure.[3]
Beyond the glyphosate salts content, commercial formulations of Roundup
contain surfactants, which vary in nature and concentration. As a
result, human poisoning with this herbicide is not with the main active
ingredient alone but with complex and variable mixtures. [4]

[edit]
Human and mammalian toxicity
About Roundup formulations, a 2000 review of the available literature
published in a Monsanto sponsored journal,[5] conducted by Ian C. Munro
a member of the Cantox scientific and regulatory consulting firm, which
role is defined as "protect client interests while helping our clients
achieve milestones and bring products to market"[6] concluded that
"under present and expected conditions of new use, there is no potential
for Roundup herbicide to pose a health risk to humans".[7] This review
is extensively cited by Monsanto.
On the other hand, a same year review of the toxicological data on
Roundup shows that there are at least 58 studies of the effects of
Roundup itself on a range of organisms.[8] This review concluded that
"for terrestrial uses of Roundup minimal acute and chronic risk was
predicted for potentially exposed nontarget organisms". It also
concluded that there were some risks to aquatic organisms exposed to
Roundup in shallow water. In later mammalian research, Roundup has been
found to interfere with an enzyme involved testosterone production in
mouse cell culture[9] and to interfere with an estrogen biosynthesis
enzyme in cultures of Human Placental cells.[10]
A 2008 scientific study has shown that Roundup formulations and
metabolic products cause the death of human embryonic, placental, and
umbilical cells in vitro even at low concentrations. The effects were
not proportional to the main active ingredient concentrations
(glyphosate) but dependent on the nature of the adjuvants used in the
Roundup formulation.[11]
Opponents of Roundup claim that it has been found to cause genetic
damage, citing Peluso et al.[12] The authors concluded that the damage
was "not related to the active ingredient, but to another component of
the herbicide mixture".
There is a reasonable correlation between the amount of Roundup ingested
and the likelihood of serious systemic sequelae or death. Ingestion of
>85 mL of the concentrated formulation is likely to cause significant
toxicity in adults. Gastrointestinal corrosive effects, with mouth,
throat and epigastric pain and dysphagia are common. Renal and hepatic
impairment are also frequent and usually reflect reduced organ
perfusion. Respiratory distress, impaired consciousness, pulmonary
oedema, infiltration on chest x-ray, shock, arrythmias, renal failure
requiring haemodialysis, metabolic acidosis and hyperkalaemia may
supervene in severe cases. Bradycardia and ventricular arrhythmias are
often present pre-terminally. Dermal exposure to ready-to-use glyphosate
formulations can cause irritation and photo-contact dermatitis has been
reported occasionally; these effects are probably due to the
preservative Proxel (benzisothiazolin-3-one). Severe skin burns are very
rare. Inhalation is a minor route of exposure but spray mist may cause
oral or nasal discomfort, an unpleasant taste in the mouth, tingling and
throat irritation. Eye exposure may lead to mild conjunctivitis, and
superficial corneal injury is possible if irrigation is delayed or
inadequate. [4]

[edit]
False advertising
In 1996 Monsanto was accused of false and misleading advertising of
glyphosate products, prompting a law suit by the New York State attorney
general.[13]
On Fri Jan 20, 2007, Monsanto was convicted of false advertising of
Roundup for presenting Roundup as biodegradable and claiming that it
left the soil clean after use. Environmental and consumer rights
campaigners brought the case in 2001 on the basis that glyphosate,
Roundup's main ingredient, is classed as "dangerous for the environment"
and "toxic for aquatic organisms" by the European Union. Monsanto France
planned to appeal the verdict at the time. [14]

[edit]
Scientific fraud
.. . .

And it goes on and on. So if you want to pollute the environment and
make a rogue chemical company rich, even when there are organic methods
that are cheaper and just as effective, there's nothing I can do to stop
you. I just wish, though, that you would explain it to your kids.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

[Dioclese]

"RK77" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hi
>
> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
> as I'm amateur gardener.
>
> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
> make it level.
>
> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>
> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
> still penetrate from there as well.
>
> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
> weed.
>
> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
> or should I just use hand tools.
>
>
> Thanks in advance for all the help.
>
>
>
>
> --
> RK77

The best way that I found is too scythe the weeds as low as possible. Rake
it all up in a pile and burn it elsewhere. Turn over about 2 feet in depth
of the soil, and let it dry out well. Break it up after dried, and rake out
all the remnants and do the same as you did previously. Then, run the
rototiller, then add your soil additions and rototill those in.

I don't know of a non-laborious method of doing the above to achieve the
same results.
--
Dave
We the people...

[brooklyn1]

"Dioclese" wrote
> "RK77" wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
>> as I'm amateur gardener.
>>
>> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
>> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
>> make it level.
>>
>> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
>> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
>> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
>> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>>
>> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
>> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
>> still penetrate from there as well.
>>
>> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
>> weed.
>>
>> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
>> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
>> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
>> or should I just use hand tools.
>>
>
> The best way that I found is too scythe the weeds as low as possible.
> Rake it all up in a pile and burn it elsewhere. Turn over about 2 feet in
> depth of the soil, and let it dry out well. Break it up after dried, and
> rake out all the remnants and do the same as you did previously. Then,
> run the rototiller, then add your soil additions and rototill those in.
>
> I don't know of a non-laborious method of doing the above to achieve the
> same results.
>
>
>

What's with all the futzing around, the OP is gonna put in a sod lawn...

Till.
Amend.
Till.
Rake.
Roll.
Lay in pipe for auto sprinklers - never try a sod lawn without.
Lay down sod.

That's it, all in one day... no screwin' around... no time for new weeds to
grow.

That said I hate sod lawns... they're not very healthy... may as well put
down
astroturf. The best is a seeded lawn, hydro seeded is the ultimate.

[Ernie Willson]

Billy wrote:
> In article
> >,
> z > wrote:
>
>> On May 9, 8:00 pm, RK77 > wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
>>> as I'm amateur gardener.
>>>
>>> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
>>> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
>>> make it level.
>>>
>>> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
>>> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
>>> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
>>> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>>>
>>> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
>>> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
>>> still penetrate from there as well.
>>>
>>> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
>>> weed.
>>>
>>> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
>>> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
>>> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
>>> or should I just use hand tools.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for all the help.
>>>
>>> --
>>> RK77
>> like the guy says, lay newspaper down then topsoil. that works very
>> well.
>>
>> or, you can use roundup on the weeds; that seems to kill them off but
>> doesn't kill future grass. might take a few sprays though, from my
>> experience. at least, some weeds seem to die right away, some don't
>> and i decided to spray them again.
>>
>> either way, like the other guy says, there's going to be weed seeds
>> waiting in the new turf, as well as blowing in. but..... once you get
>> a nice thick healthy lawn, that tends to prevent new weeds from
>> sprouting, or thriving once they sprout.
> That's a great way to learn about biotoxins. Just ask guys what they
> think. Too bad you couldn't have a couple of beers while your at it. But
> before you let the kids, or the grandkids run out and play on your
> chemical lawn you may want to read some of the following.
>
> http://www.naturalnews.com/023254.html
> Monsanto: History of Contamination and Cover-up
>
> http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php
> ISIS Press Release 11/02/09
> Death by Multiple Poisoning, Glyphosate and Roundup
>
> http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805
> Monsanto¹s Harvest of Fear
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup
> Health, ecological concerns and controversy
> Roundup commercial formulations were never submitted to test by the
> United States Environmental Protection Agency? (EPA), its main active
> ingredient, glyphosate, received EPA Toxicity Class of III for oral and
> inhalation exposure.[3]
> Beyond the glyphosate salts content, commercial formulations of Roundup
> contain surfactants, which vary in nature and concentration. As a
> result, human poisoning with this herbicide is not with the main active
> ingredient alone but with complex and variable mixtures. [4]
>
> [edit]
> Human and mammalian toxicity
> About Roundup formulations, a 2000 review of the available literature
> published in a Monsanto sponsored journal,[5] conducted by Ian C. Munro
> a member of the Cantox scientific and regulatory consulting firm, which
> role is defined as "protect client interests while helping our clients
> achieve milestones and bring products to market"[6] concluded that
> "under present and expected conditions of new use, there is no potential
> for Roundup herbicide to pose a health risk to humans".[7] This review
> is extensively cited by Monsanto.
> On the other hand, a same year review of the toxicological data on
> Roundup shows that there are at least 58 studies of the effects of
> Roundup itself on a range of organisms.[8] This review concluded that
> "for terrestrial uses of Roundup minimal acute and chronic risk was
> predicted for potentially exposed nontarget organisms". It also
> concluded that there were some risks to aquatic organisms exposed to
> Roundup in shallow water. In later mammalian research, Roundup has been
> found to interfere with an enzyme involved testosterone production in
> mouse cell culture[9] and to interfere with an estrogen biosynthesis
> enzyme in cultures of Human Placental cells.[10]
> A 2008 scientific study has shown that Roundup formulations and
> metabolic products cause the death of human embryonic, placental, and
> umbilical cells in vitro even at low concentrations. The effects were
> not proportional to the main active ingredient concentrations
> (glyphosate) but dependent on the nature of the adjuvants used in the
> Roundup formulation.[11]
> Opponents of Roundup claim that it has been found to cause genetic
> damage, citing Peluso et al.[12] The authors concluded that the damage
> was "not related to the active ingredient, but to another component of
> the herbicide mixture".
> There is a reasonable correlation between the amount of Roundup ingested
> and the likelihood of serious systemic sequelae or death. Ingestion of
>> 85 mL of the concentrated formulation is likely to cause significant
> toxicity in adults. Gastrointestinal corrosive effects, with mouth,
> throat and epigastric pain and dysphagia are common. Renal and hepatic
> impairment are also frequent and usually reflect reduced organ
> perfusion. Respiratory distress, impaired consciousness, pulmonary
> oedema, infiltration on chest x-ray, shock, arrythmias, renal failure
> requiring haemodialysis, metabolic acidosis and hyperkalaemia may
> supervene in severe cases. Bradycardia and ventricular arrhythmias are
> often present pre-terminally. Dermal exposure to ready-to-use glyphosate
> formulations can cause irritation and photo-contact dermatitis has been
> reported occasionally; these effects are probably due to the
> preservative Proxel (benzisothiazolin-3-one). Severe skin burns are very
> rare. Inhalation is a minor route of exposure but spray mist may cause
> oral or nasal discomfort, an unpleasant taste in the mouth, tingling and
> throat irritation. Eye exposure may lead to mild conjunctivitis, and
> superficial corneal injury is possible if irrigation is delayed or
> inadequate. [4]
>
> [edit]
> False advertising
> In 1996 Monsanto was accused of false and misleading advertising of
> glyphosate products, prompting a law suit by the New York State attorney
> general.[13]
> On Fri Jan 20, 2007, Monsanto was convicted of false advertising of
> Roundup for presenting Roundup as biodegradable and claiming that it
> left the soil clean after use. Environmental and consumer rights
> campaigners brought the case in 2001 on the basis that glyphosate,
> Roundup's main ingredient, is classed as "dangerous for the environment"
> and "toxic for aquatic organisms" by the European Union. Monsanto France
> planned to appeal the verdict at the time. [14]
>
> [edit]
> Scientific fraud
> . . .
>
> And it goes on and on. So if you want to pollute the environment and
> make a rogue chemical company rich, even when there are organic methods
> that are cheaper and just as effective, there's nothing I can do to stop
> you. I just wish, though, that you would explain it to your kids.

Lets review...2000+ studies say there is no problem. 58 studies say
there may be a minimal effect on certain species.

Seems Billy is proving the case to use roundup.

EJ in NJ

[David E. Ross]

On 5/10/2009 12:59 PM, Dioclese wrote:
> "RK77" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi
>>
>> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
>> as I'm amateur gardener.
>>
>> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
>> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
>> make it level.
>>
>> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
>> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
>> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
>> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>>
>> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
>> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
>> still penetrate from there as well.
>>
>> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
>> weed.
>>
>> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
>> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
>> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
>> or should I just use hand tools.
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for all the help.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> RK77
>
> The best way that I found is too scythe the weeds as low as possible. Rake
> it all up in a pile and burn it elsewhere. Turn over about 2 feet in depth
> of the soil, and let it dry out well. Break it up after dried, and rake out
> all the remnants and do the same as you did previously. Then, run the
> rototiller, then add your soil additions and rototill those in.
>
> I don't know of a non-laborious method of doing the above to achieve the
> same results.

Because of air pollution, burning weeds is illegal near many urban
areas. For legitimate farms, agricultural burning requires a permit so
that not too many farms are burning on the same day.

In my area, no burning is allowed between 31 May and the first rains in
the fall. This is because even agricultural burning can get out of
control and lead to a massive wildfire. Even in seasons when
agricultural burning is allowed, the fire department controls on what
days it's allowed, based on weather forecasts of temperature, humidity,
and wind.

Think of Santa Barbara this past week. While we don't yet know what
caused that major fire, similar fires have started from things as simple
as an unnoticed spark when a metal tool hit a rock, by an automobile
with a hot engine parked over dry grass, and by a farmer using a welding
torch to repair farm equipment.

Some of these fires have been caused by the wind breaking power lines.
A recent state report indicates that too much weight from cell phone and
cable systems has been placed on utility poles originally installed only
for electric lines. Strong winds broke such poles in Malibu, causing a
major fire with a church and several very expensive homes destroyed.
(Despite the report, the local residents still blame campers in an
adjacent state park. The residents think that parks should be nice to
see and provide a greenbelt to block further development, but the parks
should not actually be used.)

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary>

[Billy[_7_]]

In article >,
Ernie Willson > wrote:

> Billy wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > z > wrote:
> >
> >> On May 9, 8:00 pm, RK77 > wrote:
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
> >>> as I'm amateur gardener.
> >>>
> >>> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
> >>> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
> >>> make it level.
> >>>
> >>> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
> >>> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
> >>> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
> >>> really have to dig deep to get to them.
> >>>
> >>> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
> >>> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
> >>> still penetrate from there as well.
> >>>
> >>> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
> >>> weed.
> >>>
> >>> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
> >>> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
> >>> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
> >>> or should I just use hand tools.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks in advance for all the help.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> RK77
> >> like the guy says, lay newspaper down then topsoil. that works very
> >> well.
> >>
> >> or, you can use roundup on the weeds; that seems to kill them off but
> >> doesn't kill future grass. might take a few sprays though, from my
> >> experience. at least, some weeds seem to die right away, some don't
> >> and i decided to spray them again.
> >>
> >> either way, like the other guy says, there's going to be weed seeds
> >> waiting in the new turf, as well as blowing in. but..... once you get
> >> a nice thick healthy lawn, that tends to prevent new weeds from
> >> sprouting, or thriving once they sprout.
> > That's a great way to learn about biotoxins. Just ask guys what they
> > think. Too bad you couldn't have a couple of beers while your at it. But
> > before you let the kids, or the grandkids run out and play on your
> > chemical lawn you may want to read some of the following.
> >
> > http://www.naturalnews.com/023254.html
> > Monsanto: History of Contamination and Cover-up
> >
> > http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php
> > ISIS Press Release 11/02/09
> > Death by Multiple Poisoning, Glyphosate and Roundup
> >
> > http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805
> > Monsanto¹s Harvest of Fear
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup
> > Health, ecological concerns and controversy
> > Roundup commercial formulations were never submitted to test by the
> > United States Environmental Protection Agency? (EPA), its main active
> > ingredient, glyphosate, received EPA Toxicity Class of III for oral and
> > inhalation exposure.[3]
> > Beyond the glyphosate salts content, commercial formulations of Roundup
> > contain surfactants, which vary in nature and concentration. As a
> > result, human poisoning with this herbicide is not with the main active
> > ingredient alone but with complex and variable mixtures. [4]
> >
> > [edit]
> > Human and mammalian toxicity
> > About Roundup formulations, a 2000 review of the available literature
> > published in a Monsanto sponsored journal,[5] conducted by Ian C. Munro
> > a member of the Cantox scientific and regulatory consulting firm, which
> > role is defined as "protect client interests while helping our clients
> > achieve milestones and bring products to market"[6] concluded that
> > "under present and expected conditions of new use, there is no potential
> > for Roundup herbicide to pose a health risk to humans".[7] This review
> > is extensively cited by Monsanto.
> > On the other hand, a same year review of the toxicological data on
> > Roundup shows that there are at least 58 studies of the effects of
> > Roundup itself on a range of organisms.[8] This review concluded that
> > "for terrestrial uses of Roundup minimal acute and chronic risk was
> > predicted for potentially exposed nontarget organisms". It also
> > concluded that there were some risks to aquatic organisms exposed to
> > Roundup in shallow water. In later mammalian research, Roundup has been
> > found to interfere with an enzyme involved testosterone production in
> > mouse cell culture[9] and to interfere with an estrogen biosynthesis
> > enzyme in cultures of Human Placental cells.[10]
> > A 2008 scientific study has shown that Roundup formulations and
> > metabolic products cause the death of human embryonic, placental, and
> > umbilical cells in vitro even at low concentrations. The effects were
> > not proportional to the main active ingredient concentrations
> > (glyphosate) but dependent on the nature of the adjuvants used in the
> > Roundup formulation.[11]
> > Opponents of Roundup claim that it has been found to cause genetic
> > damage, citing Peluso et al.[12] The authors concluded that the damage
> > was "not related to the active ingredient, but to another component of
> > the herbicide mixture".
> > There is a reasonable correlation between the amount of Roundup ingested
> > and the likelihood of serious systemic sequelae or death. Ingestion of
> >> 85 mL of the concentrated formulation is likely to cause significant
> > toxicity in adults. Gastrointestinal corrosive effects, with mouth,
> > throat and epigastric pain and dysphagia are common. Renal and hepatic
> > impairment are also frequent and usually reflect reduced organ
> > perfusion. Respiratory distress, impaired consciousness, pulmonary
> > oedema, infiltration on chest x-ray, shock, arrythmias, renal failure
> > requiring haemodialysis, metabolic acidosis and hyperkalaemia may
> > supervene in severe cases. Bradycardia and ventricular arrhythmias are
> > often present pre-terminally. Dermal exposure to ready-to-use glyphosate
> > formulations can cause irritation and photo-contact dermatitis has been
> > reported occasionally; these effects are probably due to the
> > preservative Proxel (benzisothiazolin-3-one). Severe skin burns are very
> > rare. Inhalation is a minor route of exposure but spray mist may cause
> > oral or nasal discomfort, an unpleasant taste in the mouth, tingling and
> > throat irritation. Eye exposure may lead to mild conjunctivitis, and
> > superficial corneal injury is possible if irrigation is delayed or
> > inadequate. [4]
> >
> > [edit]
> > False advertising
> > In 1996 Monsanto was accused of false and misleading advertising of
> > glyphosate products, prompting a law suit by the New York State attorney
> > general.[13]
> > On Fri Jan 20, 2007, Monsanto was convicted of false advertising of
> > Roundup for presenting Roundup as biodegradable and claiming that it
> > left the soil clean after use. Environmental and consumer rights
> > campaigners brought the case in 2001 on the basis that glyphosate,
> > Roundup's main ingredient, is classed as "dangerous for the environment"
> > and "toxic for aquatic organisms" by the European Union. Monsanto France
> > planned to appeal the verdict at the time. [14]
> >
> > [edit]
> > Scientific fraud
> > . . .
> >
> > And it goes on and on. So if you want to pollute the environment and
> > make a rogue chemical company rich, even when there are organic methods
> > that are cheaper and just as effective, there's nothing I can do to stop
> > you. I just wish, though, that you would explain it to your kids.
>
> Lets review...2000+ studies say there is no problem. 58 studies say
> there may be a minimal effect on certain species.
>
> Seems Billy is proving the case to use roundup.
>
> EJ in NJ

If you went to a private school and graduated, you may be able to sue
them for non-performance ;O)
Read it again Bozo.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

[Billy[_7_]]

In article >, Charlie wrote:

> On Sun, 10 May 2009 19:07:35 -0400, Ernie Willson
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> >Lets review...2000+ studies say there is no problem. 58 studies say
> >there may be a minimal effect on certain species.
> >
> >Seems Billy is proving the case to use roundup.
> >
> >EJ in NJ
>
>
> .......yawn.....whatta doofus......wake me up if anything surprising
> happens or we get some fresh meat, Billy.
>
> Nothing to see here....same old shite....I'm going back under the
> rental log for a snooze....
>
> Charlie

Yeah, a pretty slow week-end. Yawn. I thought I'd look at it from their
side (ya know, kinda like a chess game), so I borrowed "Mendel in the
kitchen : a scientist's view of genetically modified foods" / Nina V.
Fedoroff and Nancy Marie Brown, from the library. It is pro-GMO, and
there isn't a word about Percey Schmeiser. It's kind of interesting.
They talk about the guy who created "Golden Rice". He started off
wanting t increase crop harvests and giving away the technology. Well,
as we all know, harvests haven't increased, the technology is now
private property, and the rice can combine with any rice that's grown
for human consumption (think Percy Schmeiser all over again). Oy Veh.

Anyway, have a good nap, I've got my fly swatter if there's any trouble.
Schlaft gut.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

[Dioclese]

"David E. Ross" > wrote in message
et...
> On 5/10/2009 12:59 PM, Dioclese wrote:
>> "RK77" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
>>> as I'm amateur gardener.
>>>
>>> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
>>> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
>>> make it level.
>>>
>>> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
>>> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
>>> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
>>> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>>>
>>> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
>>> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
>>> still penetrate from there as well.
>>>
>>> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
>>> weed.
>>>
>>> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
>>> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
>>> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
>>> or should I just use hand tools.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for all the help.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> RK77
>>
>> The best way that I found is too scythe the weeds as low as possible.
>> Rake
>> it all up in a pile and burn it elsewhere. Turn over about 2 feet in
>> depth
>> of the soil, and let it dry out well. Break it up after dried, and rake
>> out
>> all the remnants and do the same as you did previously. Then, run the
>> rototiller, then add your soil additions and rototill those in.
>>
>> I don't know of a non-laborious method of doing the above to achieve the
>> same results.
>
> Because of air pollution, burning weeds is illegal near many urban
> areas. For legitimate farms, agricultural burning requires a permit so
> that not too many farms are burning on the same day.
>
> In my area, no burning is allowed between 31 May and the first rains in
> the fall. This is because even agricultural burning can get out of
> control and lead to a massive wildfire. Even in seasons when
> agricultural burning is allowed, the fire department controls on what
> days it's allowed, based on weather forecasts of temperature, humidity,
> and wind.
>
> Think of Santa Barbara this past week. While we don't yet know what
> caused that major fire, similar fires have started from things as simple
> as an unnoticed spark when a metal tool hit a rock, by an automobile
> with a hot engine parked over dry grass, and by a farmer using a welding
> torch to repair farm equipment.
>
> Some of these fires have been caused by the wind breaking power lines.
> A recent state report indicates that too much weight from cell phone and
> cable systems has been placed on utility poles originally installed only
> for electric lines. Strong winds broke such poles in Malibu, causing a
> major fire with a church and several very expensive homes destroyed.
> (Despite the report, the local residents still blame campers in an
> adjacent state park. The residents think that parks should be nice to
> see and provide a greenbelt to block further development, but the parks
> should not actually be used.)
>
> --
> David E. Ross
> Climate: California Mediterranean
> Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
> influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
> Gardening diary at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary>

Is there desert country (ala southern CA) in the UK?

My heart goes out to southern CA desert people, the seed after drought
periods is laying dormant until the next rain in the wild. Just waiting to
start another cycle of growth, dryout, and subsequent increased fuel source.
--
Dave
We the people...

[Dioclese]

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dioclese" wrote
>> "RK77" wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for responding to my previous post. I just need some more help
>>> as I'm amateur gardener.
>>>
>>> I've got plenty of weeds on bare soil, no lawn at the moment. Soil is
>>> okay at the moment but pretty uneven and I've to put 15cm of topsoil to
>>> make it level.
>>>
>>> I've tried to remove them by digging up but sometimes their roots are
>>> too deep and they just break up. Will it be a problem if I leave those
>>> broken roots or I've to take them out whatever happens. I most case I
>>> really have to dig deep to get to them.
>>>
>>> Once all the weeds are removed and site is cleared I'll be putting 15cm
>>> of topsoil on top of existing soil. Will that help OR the weeds will
>>> still penetrate from there as well.
>>>
>>> I'll put ready made turf on top of that once leveled and free from
>>> weed.
>>>
>>> Also I was thinking of getting the rotovator if it makes life easier as
>>> there are plenty of weeds and digging is taking decent time.
>>> Please let me know if that will be helpful so that I can rent one out
>>> or should I just use hand tools.
>>>
>>
>> The best way that I found is too scythe the weeds as low as possible.
>> Rake it all up in a pile and burn it elsewhere. Turn over about 2 feet
>> in depth of the soil, and let it dry out well. Break it up after dried,
>> and rake out all the remnants and do the same as you did previously.
>> Then, run the rototiller, then add your soil additions and rototill those
>> in.
>>
>> I don't know of a non-laborious method of doing the above to achieve the
>> same results.
>>
>>
>>
>
> What's with all the futzing around, the OP is gonna put in a sod lawn...
>
> Till.
> Amend.
> Till.
> Rake.
> Roll.
> Lay in pipe for auto sprinklers - never try a sod lawn without.
> Lay down sod.
>
> That's it, all in one day... no screwin' around... no time for new weeds
> to grow.
>
> That said I hate sod lawns... they're not very healthy... may as well put
> down
> astroturf. The best is a seeded lawn, hydro seeded is the ultimate.
>
>
>

The method you indicate is normal. What is not equivalent is the method of
weed removal by hand digging and hand removal, Much more throrough and
laborious as I indicated. Time for dryout, more than 24 hours, also lends
to easier hand removal. Initial tilling lends to breaking up the weed
beneath the soil. Some "weeds" proliferate easily from simple root
remnants. The method I indicated tends to remove the vast majority of those
root structures initially before any tilling is done. In my opinion, its
not nearly the same in the end game as the picture you try to paint.
--
Dave

[Billy[_7_]]

In article >,
Jangchub > wrote:

> I don't know what type weeds you are working with, but where I live we
> have this wonderful thing called bermuda grass.

My "weeds" are primarily my cover crops, rye and clover, with the odd
peppermint poking up occasionally. By and large, a single sheet of
newsprint, plus mulch, is sufficient to suppress my "weeds".
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html