CO2 tank dumps?

[Skunky]

OK, I have now managed to set up my pressurized set up. I am using a twin gauge Deltec regulator with needle valve, an Aquamedic bubble counter, with a 14lb bottle, feeding the CO2 directly to the intake of my Eheim Pro II 2028.

Firstly, I have set the regulator pressure @ 1 bar, is this enough?

Bubble rate is 1 bubble per second.

Now to my main worry, TANK DUMPS!!!

I have read a few horror stories about bottles dumping their last load of CO2 into the tank when they are coming to the end, killing all the inhabitants. Can this catastrophy be avoided and if so, how?

Many thanx for your much needed advice!


Planted Discus tank. (300 litres)

Temp - 84

NH3 - 0

NO2 - 0

NO3 - 20mg/l

pH - 6.5

KH - 2 degrees

GH - 8 degrees

[SteveG]

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/

I think the risk of end-of-tank dump is only for CO2 tanks that do not have
a needle valve controlling them.

"Skunky" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK, I have now managed to set up my pressurized set up. I am using a
> twin gauge Deltec regulator with needle valve, an Aquamedic bubble
> counter, with a 14lb bottle, feeding the CO2 directly to the intake of
> my Eheim Pro II 2028.
>
> Firstly, I have set the regulator pressure @ 1 bar, is this enough?
>
> Bubble rate is 1 bubble per second.
>
> Now to my main worry, TANK DUMPS!!!
>
> I have read a few horror stories about bottles dumping their last load
> of CO2 into the tank when they are coming to the end, killing all the
> inhabitants. Can this catastrophy be avoided and if so, how?
>
> Many thanx for your much needed advice!
>
>
> Planted Discus tank. (300 litres)
>
> Temp - 84
>
> NH3 - 0
>
> NO2 - 0
>
> NO3 - 20mg/l
>
> pH - 6.5
>
> KH - 2 degrees
>
> GH - 8 degrees
>
>
> --
> Skunky
>
> 'Peace On Earth.....And In The Water'
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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=---

[Bob Alston]

Take a look at my web site. Scroll down to the last two items on end of
tank dump.

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2


--
Bob Alston


http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/
"Skunky" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK, I have now managed to set up my pressurized set up. I am using a
> twin gauge Deltec regulator with needle valve, an Aquamedic bubble
> counter, with a 14lb bottle, feeding the CO2 directly to the intake of
> my Eheim Pro II 2028.
>
> Firstly, I have set the regulator pressure @ 1 bar, is this enough?
>
> Bubble rate is 1 bubble per second.
>
> Now to my main worry, TANK DUMPS!!!
>
> I have read a few horror stories about bottles dumping their last load
> of CO2 into the tank when they are coming to the end, killing all the
> inhabitants. Can this catastrophy be avoided and if so, how?
>
> Many thanx for your much needed advice!
>
>
> Planted Discus tank. (300 litres)
>
> Temp - 84
>
> NH3 - 0
>
> NO2 - 0
>
> NO3 - 20mg/l
>
> pH - 6.5
>
> KH - 2 degrees
>
> GH - 8 degrees
>
>
> --
> Skunky
>
> 'Peace On Earth.....And In The Water'
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---


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[Robert]

For those that maintain a "tank dump" is possible with a 2-stage regulator,
please explain why my oxy-acetylene torch doesn't act like a flame thrower
when the acetylene tank runs out or why the oxygen tank doesn't blast out
the flame when it goes to empty. Trust me, neither thing happens. I have
used CO2 on a 120 with 8 wild discus and huge schools of cardinals and rummy
noses for over three years and no "dump". Maybe a piscine urban legend?

"Bob Alston" > wrote in message
...
> Take a look at my web site. Scroll down to the last two items on end of
> tank dump.
>
>
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2
>
>
> --
> Bob Alston




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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[Bob Alston]

I don't say this is an issue with a two stage regulator. I only use a
single stage regulator, with dual guages. I have never heard of tank dump
in context of a 2-stage regulator.

--
Bob Alston


http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/
"Robert" > wrote in message
...
> For those that maintain a "tank dump" is possible with a 2-stage
regulator,
> please explain why my oxy-acetylene torch doesn't act like a flame thrower
> when the acetylene tank runs out or why the oxygen tank doesn't blast out
> the flame when it goes to empty. Trust me, neither thing happens. I have
> used CO2 on a 120 with 8 wild discus and huge schools of cardinals and
rummy
> noses for over three years and no "dump". Maybe a piscine urban legend?
>
> "Bob Alston" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Take a look at my web site. Scroll down to the last two items on end of
> > tank dump.
> >
> >
>
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bob Alston
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


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[Mike]

how can one tell if they have a single or two stage regulator?

"Bob Alston" > wrote in message
...
> I don't say this is an issue with a two stage regulator. I only use a
> single stage regulator, with dual guages. I have never heard of tank dump
> in context of a 2-stage regulator.
>
> --
> Bob Alston
>
>
> http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/
> "Robert" > wrote in message
> ...
> > For those that maintain a "tank dump" is possible with a 2-stage
> regulator,
> > please explain why my oxy-acetylene torch doesn't act like a flame
thrower
> > when the acetylene tank runs out or why the oxygen tank doesn't blast
out
> > the flame when it goes to empty. Trust me, neither thing happens. I
have
> > used CO2 on a 120 with 8 wild discus and huge schools of cardinals and
> rummy
> > noses for over three years and no "dump". Maybe a piscine urban legend?
> >
> > "Bob Alston" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Take a look at my web site. Scroll down to the last two items on end
of
> > > tank dump.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bob Alston
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
>
>
> ---
> Bob's Dell 4400 - Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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> Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003
>
>

[Skunky]

When you say a 2 stage regulator, does this mean when a needle valve is incorperated. I would imagine that a tank dump would not be possible due to the fine adjustment of the valve, should an mount of back pressure build up, the valve would control the pressure due to it's fine adjustment????

Thanx

[Bob Alston]

Apparently not the case. Read the articles on my web site. Se my earlier
post for direct url.

--
Bob Alston


http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/
"Skunky" > wrote in message
...
>
> When you say a 2 stage regulator, does this mean when a needle valve is
> incorperated. I would imagine that a tank dump would not be possible
> due to the fine adjustment of the valve, should an mount of back
> pressure build up, the valve would control the pressure due to it's
> fine adjustment????
>
> Thanx
>
>
> --
> Skunky
>
> 'Peace On Earth.....And In The Water'
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---


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[Joe Ferenchik]

midpost

On Sun, 25 May 2003 11:18:19 +0100, Skunky
> wrote:

>OK, I have now managed to set up my pressurized set up. I am using a
>twin gauge Deltec regulator with needle valve, an Aquamedic bubble
>counter, with a 14lb bottle, feeding the CO2 directly to the intake of
>my Eheim Pro II 2028.

>Firstly, I have set the regulator pressure @ 1 bar, is this enough?

>Bubble rate is 1 bubble per second.

a measure of pH and hardness kh on a co2 graph will show you where
your concentration in mg/l is (see co2 links)

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm < my favorite..>

>
>Now to my main worry, TANK DUMPS!!!

Tank dumps are essentially alleviated/eliminated with the use of a
metering device (needle valve). This is because no matter what happens
at the regulator it's the needle valve that is regulating the flow
into your tank. The regulator is just setting your output pressure to
the needle valve.
>
>I have read a few horror stories about bottles dumping their last load
>of CO2 into the tank when they are coming to the end, killing all the
>inhabitants. Can this catastrophy be avoided and if so, how?

Yes it can and it appears that you have all of the necessary hardware
in place to curb this malady. Essentially what happens is that the
cylinder dumps the remaining gas in the tank. The excess co2 blankets
the surface of the aquarium (especially those with a tight fitting
lid) thereby prohibiting an oxygen gas exchange at the waters surface.
This happens because there is nothing to meter the gas into the
aquarium.

Now IME I've got a needle valve regulating the flow to my diy reactor
and I've had my cylinder at less than 50 pounds pressure before I've
cut it loose and taken it in for an exchange. I have had no ill
effects in letting the cylinder go this low. It takes quite a bit of
time once the pressure gauge starts to drop (no more liquid in the
cylinder) to where you'd get to the panic point anyway. I'd think that
most people give their cylinder gauges a daily glance while they're
checking the operation of everything else. If you're a paranoid sort
you can also valve the cylinder out if you think it's gonna dump. The
regulators high/low side and the line to the needle valve will stay
charged for quite a bit of time (depending on your flow rate). You
can repeat this line charging process till you have the time to go get
an exchange cylinder. hth

>Many thanx for your much needed advice!

<snip>

[Bob Alston]

>Tank dumps are essentially alleviated/eliminated with the use of a
>metering device (needle valve). This is because no matter what happens
>at the regulator it's the needle valve that is regulating the flow
>into your tank.

I disagree. There may be a level of pressure that "floods" the needle
valve, letting no more gas thru it. However, at the level of pressure I
use, between 8 and 20 lbs out of the regulator, the amount of gas flowing
through the needle valve is very much affected by pressure. You can easily
see this if you have a bubble counter by varying the regulator output
pressure.

The key is to have a high enough pressure, such that at end of tank, the
increase in pressure is small, in comparison to the existing pressure, so
that the increase in co2 flowing is also small. See the link below for a
good explanation:

http://www.fishgeeks.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=71249&highlight=co2+tank+liquid+vapor#71249

See my web site for more links to articles on end-of-tank dump:

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2
--
Bob Alston


http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/


<Joe Ferenchik> wrote in message
...
>
> midpost
>
> On Sun, 25 May 2003 11:18:19 +0100, Skunky
> > wrote:
>
> >OK, I have now managed to set up my pressurized set up. I am using a
> >twin gauge Deltec regulator with needle valve, an Aquamedic bubble
> >counter, with a 14lb bottle, feeding the CO2 directly to the intake of
> >my Eheim Pro II 2028.
>
> >Firstly, I have set the regulator pressure @ 1 bar, is this enough?
>
> >Bubble rate is 1 bubble per second.
>
> a measure of pH and hardness kh on a co2 graph will show you where
> your concentration in mg/l is (see co2 links)
>
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html
>
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm < my favorite..>
>
> >
> >Now to my main worry, TANK DUMPS!!!
>
> Tank dumps are essentially alleviated/eliminated with the use of a
> metering device (needle valve). This is because no matter what happens
> at the regulator it's the needle valve that is regulating the flow
> into your tank. The regulator is just setting your output pressure to
> the needle valve.
> >
> >I have read a few horror stories about bottles dumping their last load
> >of CO2 into the tank when they are coming to the end, killing all the
> >inhabitants. Can this catastrophy be avoided and if so, how?
>
> Yes it can and it appears that you have all of the necessary hardware
> in place to curb this malady. Essentially what happens is that the
> cylinder dumps the remaining gas in the tank. The excess co2 blankets
> the surface of the aquarium (especially those with a tight fitting
> lid) thereby prohibiting an oxygen gas exchange at the waters surface.
> This happens because there is nothing to meter the gas into the
> aquarium.
>
> Now IME I've got a needle valve regulating the flow to my diy reactor
> and I've had my cylinder at less than 50 pounds pressure before I've
> cut it loose and taken it in for an exchange. I have had no ill
> effects in letting the cylinder go this low. It takes quite a bit of
> time once the pressure gauge starts to drop (no more liquid in the
> cylinder) to where you'd get to the panic point anyway. I'd think that
> most people give their cylinder gauges a daily glance while they're
> checking the operation of everything else. If you're a paranoid sort
> you can also valve the cylinder out if you think it's gonna dump. The
> regulators high/low side and the line to the needle valve will stay
> charged for quite a bit of time (depending on your flow rate). You
> can repeat this line charging process till you have the time to go get
> an exchange cylinder. hth
>
> >Many thanx for your much needed advice!
>
> <snip>


---
Bob's Dell 4400 - Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Bob Alston]

Take a look at my web site. Scroll down to the last two items on end of
tank dump.

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2


--
Bob Alston


http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/
"Skunky" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK, I have now managed to set up my pressurized set up. I am using a
> twin gauge Deltec regulator with needle valve, an Aquamedic bubble
> counter, with a 14lb bottle, feeding the CO2 directly to the intake of
> my Eheim Pro II 2028.
>
> Firstly, I have set the regulator pressure @ 1 bar, is this enough?
>
> Bubble rate is 1 bubble per second.
>
> Now to my main worry, TANK DUMPS!!!
>
> I have read a few horror stories about bottles dumping their last load
> of CO2 into the tank when they are coming to the end, killing all the
> inhabitants. Can this catastrophy be avoided and if so, how?
>
> Many thanx for your much needed advice!
>
>
> Planted Discus tank. (300 litres)
>
> Temp - 84
>
> NH3 - 0
>
> NO2 - 0
>
> NO3 - 20mg/l
>
> pH - 6.5
>
> KH - 2 degrees
>
> GH - 8 degrees
>
>
> --
> Skunky
>
> 'Peace On Earth.....And In The Water'
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---


---
Bob's Dell 4400 - Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003

[Bob Alston]

Apparently not the case. Read the articles on my web site. Se my earlier
post for direct url.

--
Bob Alston


http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/
"Skunky" > wrote in message
...
>
> When you say a 2 stage regulator, does this mean when a needle valve is
> incorperated. I would imagine that a tank dump would not be possible
> due to the fine adjustment of the valve, should an mount of back
> pressure build up, the valve would control the pressure due to it's
> fine adjustment????
>
> Thanx
>
>
> --
> Skunky
>
> 'Peace On Earth.....And In The Water'
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---


---
Bob's Dell 4400 - Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003

[Bob Alston]

>Tank dumps are essentially alleviated/eliminated with the use of a
>metering device (needle valve). This is because no matter what happens
>at the regulator it's the needle valve that is regulating the flow
>into your tank.

I disagree. There may be a level of pressure that "floods" the needle
valve, letting no more gas thru it. However, at the level of pressure I
use, between 8 and 20 lbs out of the regulator, the amount of gas flowing
through the needle valve is very much affected by pressure. You can easily
see this if you have a bubble counter by varying the regulator output
pressure.

The key is to have a high enough pressure, such that at end of tank, the
increase in pressure is small, in comparison to the existing pressure, so
that the increase in co2 flowing is also small. See the link below for a
good explanation:

http://www.fishgeeks.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=71249&highlight=co2+tank+liquid+vapor#71249

See my web site for more links to articles on end-of-tank dump:

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2
--
Bob Alston


http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/


<Joe Ferenchik> wrote in message
...
>
> midpost
>
> On Sun, 25 May 2003 11:18:19 +0100, Skunky
> > wrote:
>
> >OK, I have now managed to set up my pressurized set up. I am using a
> >twin gauge Deltec regulator with needle valve, an Aquamedic bubble
> >counter, with a 14lb bottle, feeding the CO2 directly to the intake of
> >my Eheim Pro II 2028.
>
> >Firstly, I have set the regulator pressure @ 1 bar, is this enough?
>
> >Bubble rate is 1 bubble per second.
>
> a measure of pH and hardness kh on a co2 graph will show you where
> your concentration in mg/l is (see co2 links)
>
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html
>
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm < my favorite..>
>
> >
> >Now to my main worry, TANK DUMPS!!!
>
> Tank dumps are essentially alleviated/eliminated with the use of a
> metering device (needle valve). This is because no matter what happens
> at the regulator it's the needle valve that is regulating the flow
> into your tank. The regulator is just setting your output pressure to
> the needle valve.
> >
> >I have read a few horror stories about bottles dumping their last load
> >of CO2 into the tank when they are coming to the end, killing all the
> >inhabitants. Can this catastrophy be avoided and if so, how?
>
> Yes it can and it appears that you have all of the necessary hardware
> in place to curb this malady. Essentially what happens is that the
> cylinder dumps the remaining gas in the tank. The excess co2 blankets
> the surface of the aquarium (especially those with a tight fitting
> lid) thereby prohibiting an oxygen gas exchange at the waters surface.
> This happens because there is nothing to meter the gas into the
> aquarium.
>
> Now IME I've got a needle valve regulating the flow to my diy reactor
> and I've had my cylinder at less than 50 pounds pressure before I've
> cut it loose and taken it in for an exchange. I have had no ill
> effects in letting the cylinder go this low. It takes quite a bit of
> time once the pressure gauge starts to drop (no more liquid in the
> cylinder) to where you'd get to the panic point anyway. I'd think that
> most people give their cylinder gauges a daily glance while they're
> checking the operation of everything else. If you're a paranoid sort
> you can also valve the cylinder out if you think it's gonna dump. The
> regulators high/low side and the line to the needle valve will stay
> charged for quite a bit of time (depending on your flow rate). You
> can repeat this line charging process till you have the time to go get
> an exchange cylinder. hth
>
> >Many thanx for your much needed advice!
>
> <snip>


---
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