Beautiful garden tools I just ordered

[animaux]

I wanted to share with any of the gardeners here that I just bought two of the
most beautiful tools from www.marthastewart.com

The URL is:

http://www.marthastewart.com/page.jhtml?type=product&id=product2071&site=

There is an additional 10% CODE which is:

MEF0803

I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful wood
handles. Both, which included tax and shipping came to $51.50. I have no idea
where I could buy these tools for less that fifty dollars each, on a good day.
Certainly not with the bubinga wood (hardwood) handles.

Victoria

Not affiliated, but have never bought a thing from this line which was not
beautiful and above and beyond satisfied.

[Carl e Roberts]

I like the looks of the stainless fork.. let us know how these tools perform..

animaux wrote:

> I wanted to share with any of the gardeners here that I just bought two of the
> most beautiful tools from www.marthastewart.com
>
> The URL is:
>
> http://www.marthastewart.com/page.jhtml?type=product&id=product2071&site=
>
> There is an additional 10% CODE which is:
>
> MEF0803
>
> I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful wood
> handles. Both, which included tax and shipping came to $51.50. I have no idea
> where I could buy these tools for less that fifty dollars each, on a good day.
> Certainly not with the bubinga wood (hardwood) handles.
>
> Victoria
>
> Not affiliated, but have never bought a thing from this line which was not
> beautiful and above and beyond satisfied.

[Salty Thumb]

Martha Stewart stuff ... can't you pick these up at K-mart (or Super K-
mart)?

[Victor M. Martinez]

animaux > wrote:
>I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful wood

They are indeed nice looking, but will they be strong enough?

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[Doug Kanter]

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> animaux > wrote:
> >I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful
wood
>
> They are indeed nice looking, but will they be strong enough?
>

More important, stainless steel is very hard, which is why better kitchen
knives are NOT stainless. The material is almost impossible to sharpen
without a machine, and chefs need to touch up knives constantly, using a
steel. This relates to spades because they get dull quickly, and should be
touched up with a flat file kept in the garage. The performance difference
is amazing, in case you've never tried this. It takes about a minute to put
the spade in shape to cut through soil like butter (almost).

[animaux]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:36:05 +0000 (UTC), (Victor M.
Martinez) wrote:

>animaux > wrote:
>>I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful wood
>
>They are indeed nice looking, but will they be strong enough?

For me they will. I did most of the heavy work in the prepared beds and now
will have to maintain them with a wiggle of the fork from time to time to
aerate. I have another stainless steel fork for doing the initial cultivation
in new beds, but what I've done is to remove the grass and put a layer of
compost, topped with several inches of mulch and in a season the soil becomes
much softer. I do keep it watered and the worms to most of the work.

[animaux]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:40:35 GMT, Salty Thumb >
wrote:

>Martha Stewart stuff ... can't you pick these up at K-mart (or Super K-
>mart)?

No. These are available only through her catalog or website and in Texas where
I live there are no Kmart stores.

[Janet Baraclough]

The message >
from animaux > contains these words:

> I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful wood
> handles.

Digging/forking with stainless steel tools is appreciably easier; they
don't get so much soil stuck on them. It's worth taking extra care of
wooden handles to keep them equally smooth and sleek..if they are
finished with varnish, re-do it before it wears off. If they are oiled,
re-oil them occasionally with warm linseed oil, let it soak in overnight
then buff off any stickiness with a cloth.

Janet.

[animaux]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:16:48 +0100, Janet Baraclough
> wrote:

>The message >
>from animaux > contains these words:
>
>> I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful wood
>> handles.
>
> Digging/forking with stainless steel tools is appreciably easier; they
>don't get so much soil stuck on them. It's worth taking extra care of
>wooden handles to keep them equally smooth and sleek..if they are
>finished with varnish, re-do it before it wears off. If they are oiled,
>re-oil them occasionally with warm linseed oil, let it soak in overnight
>then buff off any stickiness with a cloth.
>
> Janet.

Yes, I do that with all my wooden handle tools. I don't mind spending the added
money to get them because in my efforts, I have finally learned to take care of
my tools. These were too good a price to pass up.

[David Hare-Scott]

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
. net...
> "Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
> ...
> > animaux > wrote:
> > >I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with
beautiful
> wood
> >
> > They are indeed nice looking, but will they be strong enough?
> >
>
> More important, stainless steel is very hard, which is why better
kitchen
> knives are NOT stainless. The material is almost impossible to sharpen
> without a machine, and chefs need to touch up knives constantly, using
a
> steel. This relates to spades because they get dull quickly, and
should be
> touched up with a flat file kept in the garage. The performance
difference
> is amazing, in case you've never tried this. It takes about a minute
to put
> the spade in shape to cut through soil like butter (almost).
>
>

You use a soft material so that it can be easily sharpened but loses its
edge quickly?
And you don't use a hard material that keeps its edge longer than a soft
one because it is too hard to sharpen?

By this logic there would be no use for hard steel at all.

Not all stainless steel is especially hard. Most chefs' knives
(including the better ones) in the specialty equipment shops around here
are stainless steel and this does not stop them being polished on a
steel or sharpened with a stone. If fact some of the "better" chefs'
knives are ceramic which is so hard that they cannot be sharpened at all
except in the factory. All of whcih probably has nothing to do with
spades.

David

[Victor M. Martinez]

David Hare-Scott > wrote:
>Not all stainless steel is especially hard. Most chefs' knives
>(including the better ones) in the specialty equipment shops around here
>are stainless steel and this does not stop them being polished on a

Actually, the better chef's knives are not stainless steel.

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[Doug Kanter]

"David Hare-Scott" > wrote in message
u...
>
> >
> > More important, stainless steel is very hard, which is why better
> kitchen
> > knives are NOT stainless. The material is almost impossible to sharpen
> > without a machine, and chefs need to touch up knives constantly, using
> a
> > steel. This relates to spades because they get dull quickly, and
> should be
> > touched up with a flat file kept in the garage. The performance
> difference
> > is amazing, in case you've never tried this. It takes about a minute
> to put
> > the spade in shape to cut through soil like butter (almost).
> >
> >
>
> You use a soft material so that it can be easily sharpened but loses its
> edge quickly?

You use a "soft enough" material so it can be resharpened quickly. The
reason is speed: When chefs are working, they don't head for a sharpening
machine or a stone. They grab the steel (the rod-shaped abrasive tool) to
touch up their blades in under 5 seconds so they can go back to work. Trying
this with stainless steel is like ****ing into the wind. This is why carbon
steel knives like Wusthof and Henckel are found in the hands of most
professional chefs.

> And you don't use a hard material that keeps its edge longer than a soft
> one because it is too hard to sharpen?

When knives (or spades) lose their edge in a major way, it's usually because
of accidental contact with items which damage them, like rocks (for spades),
or metal objects like sink edges or cooking pans (for knives). This will
happen just as easily to stainless steel as it will to normal steel spades.
What matters at that point is speed. Is the average busy gardener going to
go find the drill, the abrasive wheel (if he/she even has one), or haul the
shovel into the basement to the bench grinder (which most folks don't own)?
No. You want a soft material that you can sharpen quickly with a file, which
is hanging next to the garden tools, and requires to extension cord or setup
time.

>
> Not all stainless steel is especially hard. Most chefs' knives
> (including the better ones) in the specialty equipment shops around here
> are stainless steel and this does not stop them being polished on a
> steel or sharpened with a stone. If fact some of the "better" chefs'
> knives are ceramic which is so hard that they cannot be sharpened at all
> except in the factory. All of whcih probably has nothing to do with
> spades.

Well, everyone eventually mangles the edge of their spade. And as I said,
not everyone has a grinding wheel (the garden equivalent of the chef's
sharpening machine or stone). Based on my experience, the ability to sharpen
a spade quickly is important, especially when trying to cut clean lines to
remove turf, while creating or expanding garden beds. Otherwise, you end up
shoving the grass down into the earth, rather than slicing cleanly through
it. And, a sharper spade allows you to slice UNDER portions of turf, leaving
more soil in place.

[animaux]

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:12:56 +1000, "David Hare-Scott" >
wrote:


>You use a soft material so that it can be easily sharpened but loses its
>edge quickly?
>And you don't use a hard material that keeps its edge longer than a soft
>one because it is too hard to sharpen?
>
>By this logic there would be no use for hard steel at all.
>
>Not all stainless steel is especially hard. Most chefs' knives
>(including the better ones) in the specialty equipment shops around here
>are stainless steel and this does not stop them being polished on a
>steel or sharpened with a stone. If fact some of the "better" chefs'
>knives are ceramic which is so hard that they cannot be sharpened at all
>except in the factory. All of whcih probably has nothing to do with
>spades.
>
>David
>

In my experience having used stainless steel tools before, including our chef
knife set, it takes quite a while before it loses it's edge. The whole trick of
using any sharp edged tool in clay is to be sure it is properly irrigated and
not too dry or wet. My rusty spade cuts like budduh! I have a steel, to
sharpen my knives and a electric grinder which has many different type tools to
sharpen many different materials.

[Beecrofter]

>
> More important, stainless steel is very hard, which is why better kitchen
> knives are NOT stainless. The material is almost impossible to sharpen
> without a machine, and chefs need to touch up knives constantly, using a
> steel.

Bullshit, you just have to bear down a little harder.

[David Hare-Scott]

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
et...

> You use a "soft enough" material so it can be resharpened quickly. The
> reason is speed: When chefs are working, they don't head for a
sharpening
> machine or a stone. They grab the steel (the rod-shaped abrasive tool)
to
> touch up their blades in under 5 seconds so they can go back to work.
Trying
> this with stainless steel is like ****ing into the wind. This is why
carbon
> steel knives like Wusthof and Henckel are found in the hands of most
> professional chefs.
>

I know this is getting somewhat off topic but I am interested to know
why we have this difference of view, this is not just to be
argumentative, I am trying to understand your position as I am in the
market for some new tools (spades and knives) of my own. According to
the manufacturers' web sites

http://www.wuesthof.de/EN/default2.htm

http://www.zwilling.com/tg/usa/index.html

the knives that you mention are "The Steel: X 50 Cr Mo 15 Select alloy
of high carbon no-stain steel" and "Blades made from stainless, special
recipe steel" respectively.

Isn't that stainless steel? It sure sounds like it to me. Whether you
want to call these knives "stainless steel" or not the manufacturers
seem to be trying to produce (and advertise as such) products that hold
an edge well (ie they are hard steel). They also sell "steels" (both
traditional steel and ceramic) to maintain these edges, why would they
do that if using one was ineffective?

To me having a blade that is made deliberately soft so to allow quick
sharpening is rather self defeating as you will need to sharpen it much
more often. The side effect is that your blade will not last well as it
will also require more trips to the sharpening stone.

In the case of a spade (getting back on topic for a second) you would
want avoid brittle alloys that would break or get gaps through hitting
stones etc as the ability to hold an edge is useless if the edge is
gapped or the blade breaks. Having said that I have no idea if the
alloy used in stainless steel spades would be brittle or not. Do you
have any information on the sort of SS used in spades?

David

David

[des weges]

Handles are bubinga wood
http://www.postwish.com/viewproduct.asp?iProductID=2885
Guibourtia demeusei
http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/sea/AgroModels/Dbases/WD/asps/DisplayDetail.asp?SpecID=1680
http://www.bunnybass.com/wood/bubinga/bubinga.shtml
Janka Hardness is a test which measures the pounds of force it takes
to drive a .44" diameter steel ball 1/2 its depth into wood. These
numbers are taken from various publications but principally are from
the U.S. Forest Products lab. The higher the number the harder the
species.

Bubinga Guibourtia, demeusei 1980
Ash, White Fraxinus, excelsior 1320
Cherry, N. American Prunus, serotina 950
Maple, N. American Acer, saccharum 1450
Oak, Red Quercus, rubra 1260
Oak, White Quercus, alba 1360
Walnut, N. American Juglans, nigra 1010


http://www.drumsolo.cc/snare_drums/snare_gallery/bubinga/bubinga.html
Growing Region: Central to North Africa.

Availability: Currently listed as vulnerable to EXTINCT in parts of
its native Uganda.

Weight/Hardness/Density: Compared to Sugar Maple, Bubinga is 18%
heavier, 88% harder, 28% stronger.

Cost: Twice the cost of Maple.

Comments: The World Conservation Monitoring Center lists Bubinga as
"vulnerable to extinct" in Uganda, but lacks sufficient data to give
more than an "unknown" status in Central African Republic, Gabon,
Liberia, Nigeria, and Democratic Republic of Congo (ex Zaire). After
our current stock runs out, Drum Solo will no longer be using Bubinga,
due to this status.






On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:52:06 GMT, animaux > wrote:

>I wanted to share with any of the gardeners here that I just bought two of the
>most beautiful tools from www.marthastewart.com
>
>The URL is:
>
>http://www.marthastewart.com/page.jhtml?type=product&id=product2071&site=
>
>There is an additional 10% CODE which is:
>
>MEF0803
>
>I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful wood
>handles. Both, which included tax and shipping came to $51.50. I have no idea
>where I could buy these tools for less that fifty dollars each, on a good day.
>Certainly not with the bubinga wood (hardwood) handles.
>
>Victoria
>
>Not affiliated, but have never bought a thing from this line which was not
>beautiful and above and beyond satisfied.

"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson



tomj

[Bill Oliver]

In article >,
Beecrofter > wrote:
>>
>> More important, stainless steel is very hard, which is why better kitchen
>> knives are NOT stainless. The material is almost impossible to sharpen
>> without a machine, and chefs need to touch up knives constantly, using a
>> steel.
>
>Bullshit, you just have to bear down a little harder.

That's why I use a hammer. Don't have to sharpen it at all, and it's a
tenderizer, too ! Gives my meat an interesting fractal look. Anything worth
incising is worth lacerating, as my daddy always used to say.


billo

[animaux]

On 17 Jun 2003 17:22:20 -0700, (Beecrofter) wrote:

>>
>> More important, stainless steel is very hard, which is why better kitchen
>> knives are NOT stainless. The material is almost impossible to sharpen
>> without a machine, and chefs need to touch up knives constantly, using a
>> steel.
>
>Bullshit, you just have to bear down a little harder.

I have great cutlery and they are stainless, one piece with wooden handles.
They are the sharpest knives I have. Now and then I have to hone the edge, but
I use a steel to sharpen them and they cut through everything perfectly well.

Others may have other experiences.

[animaux]

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:35:06 +1000, "David Hare-Scott" >
wrote:

(...)

>In the case of a spade (getting back on topic for a second) you would
>want avoid brittle alloys that would break or get gaps through hitting
>stones etc as the ability to hold an edge is useless if the edge is
>gapped or the blade breaks. Having said that I have no idea if the
>alloy used in stainless steel spades would be brittle or not. Do you
>have any information on the sort of SS used in spades?
>
>David

David, there are different grades and alloys of stainless. I am certainly not
an expert, but 18/10 is the stainless people desire for cookware. I have a full
set of mirror polish stainless steel cookware and knives.

The reason why I believe stainless steel is such a good material for garden
tools is the ability to glide into any substance without attracting the
particulate and when it stays relatively clean, it can cut better. Stainless is
also much heavier and helps a little by having superior strength and weight.

All of this is not scientific, but I will report back about these tools in
question and give my opinion on them.

[animaux]

So, am I the devil now?


On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:06:21 -0700, des weges > wrote:

>
>Handles are bubinga wood
>http://www.postwish.com/viewproduct.asp?iProductID=2885
>Guibourtia demeusei
>http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/sea/AgroModels/Dbases/WD/asps/DisplayDetail.asp?SpecID=1680
>http://www.bunnybass.com/wood/bubinga/bubinga.shtml
>Janka Hardness is a test which measures the pounds of force it takes
>to drive a .44" diameter steel ball 1/2 its depth into wood. These
>numbers are taken from various publications but principally are from
>the U.S. Forest Products lab. The higher the number the harder the
>species.
>
>Bubinga Guibourtia, demeusei 1980
>Ash, White Fraxinus, excelsior 1320
>Cherry, N. American Prunus, serotina 950
>Maple, N. American Acer, saccharum 1450
>Oak, Red Quercus, rubra 1260
>Oak, White Quercus, alba 1360
>Walnut, N. American Juglans, nigra 1010
>
>
>http://www.drumsolo.cc/snare_drums/snare_gallery/bubinga/bubinga.html
>Growing Region: Central to North Africa.
>
>Availability: Currently listed as vulnerable to EXTINCT in parts of
>its native Uganda.
>
>Weight/Hardness/Density: Compared to Sugar Maple, Bubinga is 18%
>heavier, 88% harder, 28% stronger.
>
>Cost: Twice the cost of Maple.
>
>Comments: The World Conservation Monitoring Center lists Bubinga as
>"vulnerable to extinct" in Uganda, but lacks sufficient data to give
>more than an "unknown" status in Central African Republic, Gabon,
>Liberia, Nigeria, and Democratic Republic of Congo (ex Zaire). After
>our current stock runs out, Drum Solo will no longer be using Bubinga,
>due to this status.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:52:06 GMT, animaux > wrote:
>
>>I wanted to share with any of the gardeners here that I just bought two of the
>>most beautiful tools from www.marthastewart.com
>>
>>The URL is:
>>
>>http://www.marthastewart.com/page.jhtml?type=product&id=product2071&site=
>>
>>There is an additional 10% CODE which is:
>>
>>MEF0803
>>
>>I bought the border spade and fork, both stainless steel with beautiful wood
>>handles. Both, which included tax and shipping came to $51.50. I have no idea
>>where I could buy these tools for less that fifty dollars each, on a good day.
>>Certainly not with the bubinga wood (hardwood) handles.
>>
>>Victoria
>>
>>Not affiliated, but have never bought a thing from this line which was not
>>beautiful and above and beyond satisfied.
>
>"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
>Rachel Carson
>
>
>
>tomj

[Doug Kanter]

"David Hare-Scott" > wrote in message
u...
>
>
> I know this is getting somewhat off topic but I am interested to know
> why we have this difference of view, this is not just to be
> argumentative, I am trying to understand your position as I am in the
> market for some new tools (spades and knives) of my own. According to
> the manufacturers' web sites
>
> http://www.wuesthof.de/EN/default2.htm
>
> http://www.zwilling.com/tg/usa/index.html
>
> the knives that you mention are "The Steel: X 50 Cr Mo 15 Select alloy
> of high carbon no-stain steel" and "Blades made from stainless, special
> recipe steel" respectively.
>
> Isn't that stainless steel? It sure sounds like it to me. Whether you
> want to call these knives "stainless steel" or not the manufacturers
> seem to be trying to produce (and advertise as such) products that hold
> an edge well (ie they are hard steel). They also sell "steels" (both
> traditional steel and ceramic) to maintain these edges, why would they
> do that if using one was ineffective?
>
> To me having a blade that is made deliberately soft so to allow quick
> sharpening is rather self defeating as you will need to sharpen it much
> more often. The side effect is that your blade will not last well as it
> will also require more trips to the sharpening stone.

They make two types of knives for two different types of users. Home users
may need the kind of sharpness or precision that chefs need, but they won't
need that sort of quality 300 times in 4 hours on a busy night. If they need
to spend 10 minutes restoring the edge, it's not a big deal. A busy chef
hasn't got the time to screw around with stainless.

What I'm saying here is based on having spent time (frustrating time trying
to learn tricks, but interesting nonetheless) with a half dozen friends who
are graduates of the Culinary Institute, and two of their teachers. None of
them use stainless.

This is an interesting link, in terms of understanding different types of
metal. Click on "technical information", and then look down at the link
"About Stainless Steel".

http://www.bssa.org.uk/nsindex.htm


>
> In the case of a spade (getting back on topic for a second) you would
> want avoid brittle alloys that would break or get gaps through hitting
> stones etc as the ability to hold an edge is useless if the edge is
> gapped or the blade breaks. Having said that I have no idea if the
> alloy used in stainless steel spades would be brittle or not. Do you
> have any information on the sort of SS used in spades?
>

Let's not discuss extremes. The fact that a metal is "not that hard" doesn't
mean it's as soft as a lead fishing sinker. I've been using Bulldog spade &
fork for 20-ish years. These used to be sold by Smith & Hawken before it
became a fashion vendor for yuppies. I've hit plenty of rocks with the
spade. I've never actually dented the tool, but it clearly becomes dull
after a while. If I'm re-edging an existing bed, the dullness isn't
noticable or important, at least not in my soil. For other jobs, it is. And,
in some peoples' soil, it might be important.

When the sun's going down, your wife's telling to to get ready for Aunt
Nellie's barbeque (which you really don't want to attend anyway), your
spade's dull and you really want to finish what you're doing before heading
for the shower, the last thing you'll want is to fool around with a blade
that's too hard to sharpen quickly.

The web site I provided makes it clear that there's a wide range of formulae
for "stainless", and I'm not a metallurgist. I can only base my opinions on
experience, and experience indicates that stainless steel is harder to
sharpen than other metals. And, I have not found rust to be an issue at all
for some reason.

[des weges]

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:32:23 GMT, animaux > wrote:

>So, am I the devil now?


I think the devil is male...she devil maybe? LOL

I was just curious and posted what I found, anal retentive of me but I
found it interesting. Nothing more!
"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson



tomj

[animaux]

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:22:58 -0700, des weges > wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:32:23 GMT, animaux > wrote:
>
>>So, am I the devil now?
>
>
>I think the devil is male...she devil maybe? LOL
>
>I was just curious and posted what I found, anal retentive of me but I
>found it interesting. Nothing more!

>"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
>Rachel Carson
>
>
>
>tomj

Well, I don't much believe in a creator or creation so that's a moot point!
I've learned a great deal from this thread both here and over in austin.gardens.
Thanks for making me more aware of these things.

Victoria