Re: Cheap trees$(yeas and boos)

[J Kolenovsky]

Sandy Beotches wrote:
=


AAA Landscape/Turfgrass America in Oak Hill has a 35% off sale on

everything but grass. Although this makes for a good deal on most,

their larger trees seemed like very good buys. I bought a 45 gallon

Chinquapin Oak (yea) and a 45 gallon Chinese Pistache (boo) for $123
each today.

Not a huge selection, but 45g Red Oaks (yea), Live Oaks (boo), Cedar
Elms (Yea), Mexican

Red Bud (yea), Purple Plum (boo) and Mexican Plum (yea) at that price,
as well as many

crepe myrtles (boo) of various sizes. Alas, closed Sunday.


Texas Master Naturalist in Houston

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

[Sandy Beotches]

J Kolenovsky wrote:
45 gallon Chinese Pistache (boo)

?

Not a Texas Pistache, but I thought these were still generally
considered on the (yea) end of things. We have one that I'm very fond
of. Whyforso a (boo)?

[animaux]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:02:06 GMT, Sandy Beotches > opined:

>J Kolenovsky wrote:
>45 gallon Chinese Pistache (boo)
>
>?
>
>Not a Texas Pistache, but I thought these were still generally
>considered on the (yea) end of things. We have one that I'm very fond
>of. Whyforso a (boo)?

Some purists don't even like the idea of adapted species, regardless whether or
not they are invasive. We have a Chinese pistache and love it. It's a long
lived tree, very fast growing, lovely strap leaf foliage and in about 5 years,
sizeable from a mere 5 gallon tree. Ours is in the ground for 2 years and from
the original 5 feet is now approximately 15 feet tall.


V

[Sandy Beotches]

animaux wrote:

> Some purists don't even like the idea of adapted species, regardless whether or
> not they are invasive. We have a Chinese pistache and love it. It's a long
> lived tree, very fast growing, lovely strap leaf foliage and in about 5 years,
> sizeable from a mere 5 gallon tree. Ours is in the ground for 2 years and from
> the original 5 feet is now approximately 15 feet tall.
>
>
> V

That was pretty much my understanding. If they had had a Texas
Pistache, I would have snagged it instead, but I love the other Chinese
Pistache we have, so that was my first choice of the selection available.

Normally I prefer to get the smallest plant available and nurture it,
but with oak wilt continuing to kill off our live oaks, plus me killing
off the $%#&* paper mulberries, if I can 'cheat' and get 'new' mature
trees a few years earlier, it's worth the extra bux. Our acre doesn't
have the lovely bottomland dirt you've described, so it takes a little
longer for trees to get going here in Oak Hill.

[Jill Johnson]

And I believe the Chinese Pistachio is a TAMU Superstar variety too.


"Sandy Beotches" > wrote in message
. com...
> animaux wrote:
>
> > Some purists don't even like the idea of adapted species, regardless
whether or
> > not they are invasive. We have a Chinese pistache and love it. It's a
long
> > lived tree, very fast growing, lovely strap leaf foliage and in about 5
years,
> > sizeable from a mere 5 gallon tree. Ours is in the ground for 2 years
and from
> > the original 5 feet is now approximately 15 feet tall.
> >
> >
> > V
>
> That was pretty much my understanding. If they had had a Texas
> Pistache, I would have snagged it instead, but I love the other Chinese
> Pistache we have, so that was my first choice of the selection available.
>
> Normally I prefer to get the smallest plant available and nurture it,
> but with oak wilt continuing to kill off our live oaks, plus me killing
> off the $%#&* paper mulberries, if I can 'cheat' and get 'new' mature
> trees a few years earlier, it's worth the extra bux. Our acre doesn't
> have the lovely bottomland dirt you've described, so it takes a little
> longer for trees to get going here in Oak Hill.
>

[Victor M. Martinez]

Sandy Beotches > wrote:
>off the $%#&* paper mulberries, if I can 'cheat' and get 'new' mature
>trees a few years earlier, it's worth the extra bux. Our acre doesn't

You might consider that more often than not, you really don't get those
"few years" if you buy a larger tree. Large trees tend to suffer a worse
transplant shock and take a year or two to recover. Whereas smaller trees
get going right away.
Two years ago (or was it three?) we planted one 5 gallon lacey oak and one
1 gallon at the same time. The 1 gallon went from being a rather puny 3' twig
to being a beautiful young tree about 6 feet tall. The 5 gallon hasn't grown
more than a few inches and is now shorter than the other tree.

As usual, YMMV.

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[animaux]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:06:40 GMT, Sandy Beotches > opined:

>That was pretty much my understanding. If they had had a Texas
>Pistache, I would have snagged it instead, but I love the other Chinese
>Pistache we have, so that was my first choice of the selection available.
>
>Normally I prefer to get the smallest plant available and nurture it,
>but with oak wilt continuing to kill off our live oaks, plus me killing
>off the $%#&* paper mulberries, if I can 'cheat' and get 'new' mature
>trees a few years earlier, it's worth the extra bux. Our acre doesn't
>have the lovely bottomland dirt you've described, so it takes a little
>longer for trees to get going here in Oak Hill.

Have you tried Chinkapin oak? I may have spelled it wrong, but I know it's a
moderate grower, native and more resistant of oak wilt.

I dread wilt spreading here. We have live oaks with diameters of 3-4 feet, one
is at least 4 feet. If we lost that, wow.

I would (infor for the sake of others) stay away from Chinese tallow, and silver
maple. Those two definitely do not belong here.

Hope your pistache is a good one. They are very well adapted to our climate and
soils...even shallow.

V

[animaux]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:39:43 +0000 (UTC), (Victor M.
Martinez) opined:

>
>You might consider that more often than not, you really don't get those
>"few years" if you buy a larger tree. Large trees tend to suffer a worse
>transplant shock and take a year or two to recover. Whereas smaller trees
>get going right away.
>Two years ago (or was it three?) we planted one 5 gallon lacey oak and one
>1 gallon at the same time. The 1 gallon went from being a rather puny 3' twig
>to being a beautiful young tree about 6 feet tall. The 5 gallon hasn't grown
>more than a few inches and is now shorter than the other tree.
>
>As usual, YMMV.

If this means anything, my experience is exactly the same. Particularly with
redbud trees.

V

[Babberney]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:44:12 GMT, animaux >
wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:39:43 +0000 (UTC), (Victor M.
>Martinez) opined:
>
>>
>>You might consider that more often than not, you really don't get those
>>"few years" if you buy a larger tree. Large trees tend to suffer a worse
>>transplant shock and take a year or two to recover. Whereas smaller trees
>>get going right away.
>>Two years ago (or was it three?) we planted one 5 gallon lacey oak and one
>>1 gallon at the same time. The 1 gallon went from being a rather puny 3' twig
>>to being a beautiful young tree about 6 feet tall. The 5 gallon hasn't grown
>>more than a few inches and is now shorter than the other tree.
>>
>>As usual, YMMV.
>
>If this means anything, my experience is exactly the same. Particularly with
>redbud trees.
>
>V
I will add that seminars and trade journals geared to the
arboriculture industry confirm these results.

Keith
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/

[Sandy Beotches]

Babberney wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:44:12 GMT, animaux >
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:39:43 +0000 (UTC), (Victor M.
>>Martinez) opined:
>>
>>
>>>You might consider that more often than not, you really don't get those
>>>"few years" if you buy a larger tree. Large trees tend to suffer a worse
>>>transplant shock and take a year or two to recover. Whereas smaller trees
>>>get going right away.
>>>Two years ago (or was it three?) we planted one 5 gallon lacey oak and one
>>>1 gallon at the same time. The 1 gallon went from being a rather puny 3' twig
>>>to being a beautiful young tree about 6 feet tall. The 5 gallon hasn't grown
>>>more than a few inches and is now shorter than the other tree.
>>>
>>>As usual, YMMV.
>>
>>If this means anything, my experience is exactly the same. Particularly with
>>redbud trees.
>>
>>V
>
> I will add that seminars and trade journals geared to the
> arboriculture industry confirm these results.
>
> Keith
> For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
> For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/


Well thanks to all of you for confirming that I have wasted my money ;-P

At least they were on sale :-)

[Sandy Beotches]

Babberney wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:44:12 GMT, animaux >
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:39:43 +0000 (UTC), (Victor M.
>>Martinez) opined:
>>
>>
>>>You might consider that more often than not, you really don't get those
>>>"few years" if you buy a larger tree. Large trees tend to suffer a worse
>>>transplant shock and take a year or two to recover. Whereas smaller trees
>>>get going right away.
>>>Two years ago (or was it three?) we planted one 5 gallon lacey oak and one
>>>1 gallon at the same time. The 1 gallon went from being a rather puny 3' twig
>>>to being a beautiful young tree about 6 feet tall. The 5 gallon hasn't grown
>>>more than a few inches and is now shorter than the other tree.
>>>
>>>As usual, YMMV.
>>
>>If this means anything, my experience is exactly the same. Particularly with
>>redbud trees.
>>
>>V
>
> I will add that seminars and trade journals geared to the
> arboriculture industry confirm these results.
>
> Keith
> For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
> For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/


Well thanks to all of you for confirming that I have wasted my money ;-P

At least they were on sale :-)

[Joe Doe]

In article om>, Sandy
Beotches > wrote:

>
> Well thanks to all of you for confirming that I have wasted my money ;-P
>
> At least they were on sale :-)


I do not know if your trees are container grown or field harvested but
thought it might be helpful to pass along another factoid. Skip Richter
on the KLRU garden show said a question he gets sometimes is a person has
a tree that thrives for 6-7 years and then declines. The reason he
offered was that some fast growing trees stay in their containers too long
at the stores and develop girdling roots. This is not a problem when the
tree is young, but eventurally as the tree grows the girdling roots kill
the tree.

When you have any container grown plant, this is a possibility and since
you just bought yours you should check to make sure they do not have the
problem and cut away roots that appear to circling the container so as to
stop the problem now (before it is too late).

Roland

[Sandy Beotches]

Joe Doe wrote:
> In article om>, Sandy
> Beotches > wrote:
>
>
>>Well thanks to all of you for confirming that I have wasted my money ;-P
>>
>>At least they were on sale :-)
>
>
>
> I do not know if your trees are container grown or field harvested but
> thought it might be helpful to pass along another factoid. Skip Richter
> on the KLRU garden show said a question he gets sometimes is a person has
> a tree that thrives for 6-7 years and then declines. The reason he
> offered was that some fast growing trees stay in their containers too long
> at the stores and develop girdling roots. This is not a problem when the
> tree is young, but eventurally as the tree grows the girdling roots kill
> the tree.
>
> When you have any container grown plant, this is a possibility and since
> you just bought yours you should check to make sure they do not have the
> problem and cut away roots that appear to circling the container so as to
> stop the problem now (before it is too late).
>
> Roland

Thanks for the tip. They're still in containers, waiting for the ground
to dry a little before digging the holes, but I'll spread the roots
where possible and trim any that are too entwined.

[animaux]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:28:47 GMT, Sandy Beotches > opined:

>Well thanks to all of you for confirming that I have wasted my money ;-P
>
>At least they were on sale :-)

Oh geeze, I don't think that was the intention, but to inform people (not only
you) that, buying larger trees doesn't always give the quick result. Your trees
are fine.

All this information means is next time you are in the nursery and see a tree in
a small five gallon container and it's about 20 dollars, you'll know the secret
the industry doesn't want you to know.

Victoria

[Victor M. Martinez]

Joe Doe > wrote:
>When you have any container grown plant, this is a possibility and since
>you just bought yours you should check to make sure they do not have the
>problem and cut away roots that appear to circling the container so as to
>stop the problem now (before it is too late).

You should *always* rough up the roots before planting anything in the ground
(or even re-potting).

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[J Kolenovsky]

Actually, speaking as a Texas native plant advocate (and not a purist,
but definitely a Texas), this naturalized tree, which is indigenous to
Asia Minor, Syria and Palestine has some fairly decent qualities. Low
water requirements, hardy, pest-free, wide soil range adaptibility, good
shade and fall color. (the Aggies that were the instructors at the
semi-annual Southern Garden Landscape Design School this week mentioned
it has brilliant red color every 3 years in the Brazos Valley)

Chinese Pistache is used as the understock on which the commercial
pistachio nut( Pistacia vera ) is grafted. It is also reported to be the
tree that snagged Absalom by the hair. It is occasionally susceptible to
verticillium wilt and oak root fungus. =


JK


Sandy Beotches wrote:
> =

> J Kolenovsky wrote:
> 45 gallon Chinese Pistache (boo)
> =

> ?
> =

> Not a Texas Pistache, but I thought these were still generally
> considered on the (yea) end of things. We have one that I'm very fond=

> of. Whyforso a (boo)?

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

[J Kolenovsky]

Actually, speaking as a Texas native plant advocate (and not a purist,
but definitely a Texas), this naturalized tree, which is indigenous to
Asia Minor, Syria and Palestine has some fairly decent qualities. Low
water requirements, hardy, pest-free, wide soil range adaptibility, good
shade and fall color. (the Aggies that were the instructors at the
semi-annual Southern Garden Landscape Design School this week mentioned
it has brilliant red color every 3 years in the Brazos Valley)

Chinese Pistache is used as the understock on which the commercial
pistachio nut( Pistacia vera ) is grafted. It is also reported to be the
tree that snagged Absalom by the hair. It is occasionally susceptible to
verticillium wilt and oak root fungus. =


JK


Sandy Beotches wrote:
> =

> J Kolenovsky wrote:
> 45 gallon Chinese Pistache (boo)
> =

> ?
> =

> Not a Texas Pistache, but I thought these were still generally
> considered on the (yea) end of things. We have one that I'm very fond=

> of. Whyforso a (boo)?

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

[J Kolenovsky]

Actually, speaking as a Texas native plant advocate (and not a purist,
but definitely a Texas), this naturalized tree, which is indigenous to
Asia Minor, Syria and Palestine has some fairly decent qualities. Low
water requirements, hardy, pest-free, wide soil range adaptibility, good
shade and fall color. (the Aggies that were the instructors at the
semi-annual Southern Garden Landscape Design School this week mentioned
it has brilliant red color every 3 years in the Brazos Valley)

Chinese Pistache is used as the understock on which the commercial
pistachio nut( Pistacia vera ) is grafted. It is also reported to be the
tree that snagged Absalom by the hair. It is occasionally susceptible to
verticillium wilt and oak root fungus. =


JK


Sandy Beotches wrote:
> =

> J Kolenovsky wrote:
> 45 gallon Chinese Pistache (boo)
> =

> ?
> =

> Not a Texas Pistache, but I thought these were still generally
> considered on the (yea) end of things. We have one that I'm very fond=

> of. Whyforso a (boo)?

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal