best way to get rid of lawn

[dd]

This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)

So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?

Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
alternative to digging out all that sod.

Thanks for any help.

[David J Bockman]

DD,

There's no need to dig it out. Presuming that you're planting in mulched
beds, wait the proscribed amount of time as noted in the directions (10-14
days as I recall) and then plant right in through the sod. Once you've
planted your larger trees/shrubs, cover everything in thick sheets of
newspaper or cardboard and mulch in... you'll be amazed at the fertility of
your soil next season. All that sod will decompose and leach downwards,
while the newspaper provides a great biodegradable weed barrier.

Dave

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
> a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
>
> So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
>
> Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> alternative to digging out all that sod.
>
> Thanks for any help.

[dd]

Dave, thanks for the advice!

I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
still work with them?




In article >, David J Bockman
> wrote:

> DD,
>
> There's no need to dig it out. Presuming that you're planting in mulched
> beds, wait the proscribed amount of time as noted in the directions (10-14
> days as I recall) and then plant right in through the sod. Once you've
> planted your larger trees/shrubs, cover everything in thick sheets of
> newspaper or cardboard and mulch in... you'll be amazed at the fertility of
> your soil next season. All that sod will decompose and leach downwards,
> while the newspaper provides a great biodegradable weed barrier.
>
> Dave
>
> "dd" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> > lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
> > a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> > out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> > and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> >
> > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> > it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> > the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> > under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> >
> > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> >
> > Thanks for any help.
>
>

[J Kolenovsky]

Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by covering
with black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass dies
and decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the
beneficial bacteria that has built up in the soil.

http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/weststreet1.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/cornereast.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/eastgarden2.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/negarden.jpg

JK



dd wrote:
> =

> Dave, thanks for the advice!
> =

> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
> still work with them?
> =

> In article >, David J Bockman
> > wrote:
> =

> > DD,
> >
> > There's no need to dig it out. Presuming that you're planting in mulc=
hed
> > beds, wait the proscribed amount of time as noted in the directions (=
10-14
> > days as I recall) and then plant right in through the sod. Once you'v=
e
> > planted your larger trees/shrubs, cover everything in thick sheets of=

> > newspaper or cardboard and mulch in... you'll be amazed at the fertil=
ity of
> > your soil next season. All that sod will decompose and leach downward=
s,
> > while the newspaper provides a great biodegradable weed barrier.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "dd" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> > > lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It wil=
l be
> > > a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig=
it
> > > out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban l=
ot
> > > and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> > >
> > > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Wi=
ll
> > > it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so afte=
r
> > > the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> > > under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> > >
> > > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >

-- =

Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

[Ricky]

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> Dave, thanks for the advice!
>
> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
> still work with them?

Like Dave said, wait the 2 weeks after you spray and then if you are doing a
rock garden, put down a weed barrier (ground cloth) that will still allow
for proper drainage. If you put the rocks on top of the dead grass you'll
have them start to sink very quickly. You can cut holes in the weed barrier
to dig holes so that the plants have contact with the soil below.

On a design note...

Small plants with big rocks, big plants with small rocks. Use at least 3
different sizes of rocks but don't mix too many colors. Home Depot sells
river rock (or egg rock) that has a nice mix of colors and sizes. Your local
garden center should be able to provide you with 3 large boulders (have them
deliver them!) Use them to create a grouping and surround them with smaller
rocks. Avoid the urge to put a pink flamingo in the middle.

[Ricky]

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> Dave, thanks for the advice!
>
> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
> still work with them?

Like Dave said, wait the 2 weeks after you spray and then if you are doing a
rock garden, put down a weed barrier (ground cloth) that will still allow
for proper drainage. If you put the rocks on top of the dead grass you'll
have them start to sink very quickly. You can cut holes in the weed barrier
to dig holes so that the plants have contact with the soil below.

On a design note...

Small plants with big rocks, big plants with small rocks. Use at least 3
different sizes of rocks but don't mix too many colors. Home Depot sells
river rock (or egg rock) that has a nice mix of colors and sizes. Your local
garden center should be able to provide you with 3 large boulders (have them
deliver them!) Use them to create a grouping and surround them with smaller
rocks. Avoid the urge to put a pink flamingo in the middle.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:23:46 +0000, dd wrote:

> This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front lawn,
> or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be a lot of
> work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it out, I will
> have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot and there is
> absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
>
> So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will it
> leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after the
> grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is under the
> grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
>
> Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> alternative to digging out all that sod.
>
> Thanks for any help.

I have used Roundup. It works quite nicely. Once everything is dead and
the 2-3 week wait is done, till the soil 8-12" deep. Add peat by
spreading 2" over the tilled area. Retill to incorporate the peat into
the soil. Now the bed is ready for planting.

It's always a good idea to get the soil tested for the type of gardening
you plan to do. vegetables, annuals and perennials all have different
needs.

If you are planting perennials, the extra time, effort and cost you invest
today will pay back in the years to come. Poorly prepared soils and beds
will only disappoint in 2-3 years as plant production begins to wane.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:47:41 -0500, Ricky wrote:

> "dd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dave, thanks for the advice!
>>
>> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
>> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
>> still work with them?
>
> Like Dave said, wait the 2 weeks after you spray and then if you are doing
> a rock garden, put down a weed barrier (ground cloth) that will still
> allow for proper drainage. If you put the rocks on top of the dead grass
> you'll have them start to sink very quickly. You can cut holes in the weed
> barrier to dig holes so that the plants have contact with the soil below.
>
> On a design note...
>
> Small plants with big rocks, big plants with small rocks. Use at least 3
> different sizes of rocks but don't mix too many colors. Home Depot sells
> river rock (or egg rock) that has a nice mix of colors and sizes. Your
> local garden center should be able to provide you with 3 large boulders
> (have them deliver them!) Use them to create a grouping and surround them
> with smaller rocks. Avoid the urge to put a pink flamingo in the middle.


Weed barrier fabric makes gardening difficult. When plants need to be
relocated, the fabric always gets in the way. Weeds still will find a way
to root.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:23:46 +0000, dd wrote:

> This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front lawn,
> or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be a lot of
> work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it out, I will
> have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot and there is
> absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
>
> So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will it
> leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after the
> grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is under the
> grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
>
> Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> alternative to digging out all that sod.
>
> Thanks for any help.

I have used Roundup. It works quite nicely. Once everything is dead and
the 2-3 week wait is done, till the soil 8-12" deep. Add peat by
spreading 2" over the tilled area. Retill to incorporate the peat into
the soil. Now the bed is ready for planting.

It's always a good idea to get the soil tested for the type of gardening
you plan to do. vegetables, annuals and perennials all have different
needs.

If you are planting perennials, the extra time, effort and cost you invest
today will pay back in the years to come. Poorly prepared soils and beds
will only disappoint in 2-3 years as plant production begins to wane.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:47:41 -0500, Ricky wrote:

> "dd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dave, thanks for the advice!
>>
>> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
>> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
>> still work with them?
>
> Like Dave said, wait the 2 weeks after you spray and then if you are doing
> a rock garden, put down a weed barrier (ground cloth) that will still
> allow for proper drainage. If you put the rocks on top of the dead grass
> you'll have them start to sink very quickly. You can cut holes in the weed
> barrier to dig holes so that the plants have contact with the soil below.
>
> On a design note...
>
> Small plants with big rocks, big plants with small rocks. Use at least 3
> different sizes of rocks but don't mix too many colors. Home Depot sells
> river rock (or egg rock) that has a nice mix of colors and sizes. Your
> local garden center should be able to provide you with 3 large boulders
> (have them deliver them!) Use them to create a grouping and surround them
> with smaller rocks. Avoid the urge to put a pink flamingo in the middle.


Weed barrier fabric makes gardening difficult. When plants need to be
relocated, the fabric always gets in the way. Weeds still will find a way
to root.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:15:33 -0600, J Kolenovsky wrote:

> Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by covering with
> black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass dies and
> decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the beneficial
> bacteria that has built up in the soil.


This works great but takes an inordinate amount of time. You could easily
spend an entire season waiting for the grass to die and be reduced by worm
action.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:15:33 -0600, J Kolenovsky wrote:

> Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by covering with
> black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass dies and
> decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the beneficial
> bacteria that has built up in the soil.


This works great but takes an inordinate amount of time. You could easily
spend an entire season waiting for the grass to die and be reduced by worm
action.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:15:33 -0600, J Kolenovsky wrote:

> Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by covering with
> black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass dies and
> decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the beneficial
> bacteria that has built up in the soil.


This works great but takes an inordinate amount of time. You could easily
spend an entire season waiting for the grass to die and be reduced by worm
action.

[Ricky]

"WiGard" > wrote in message
...

> Weed barrier fabric makes gardening difficult. When plants need to be
> relocated, the fabric always gets in the way. Weeds still will find a way
> to root.

True. I never use weed barrier to prevent weeds. It's only real use is to
prevent rocks from sinking into the soil. You can always cut through it
plant something with a sharp knife. Remember our soil in S. Florida is
mostly sand so small rocks tend to disappear over time and foot traffic.

[Ricky]

"WiGard" > wrote in message
...

> Weed barrier fabric makes gardening difficult. When plants need to be
> relocated, the fabric always gets in the way. Weeds still will find a way
> to root.

True. I never use weed barrier to prevent weeds. It's only real use is to
prevent rocks from sinking into the soil. You can always cut through it
plant something with a sharp knife. Remember our soil in S. Florida is
mostly sand so small rocks tend to disappear over time and foot traffic.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:48:04 -0500, Ricky wrote:

> "WiGard" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Weed barrier fabric makes gardening difficult. When plants need to be
>> relocated, the fabric always gets in the way. Weeds still will find a
>> way to root.
>
> True. I never use weed barrier to prevent weeds. It's only real use is to
> prevent rocks from sinking into the soil. You can always cut through it
> plant something with a sharp knife. Remember our soil in S. Florida is
> mostly sand so small rocks tend to disappear over time and foot traffic.


I'm in Wisconsin where the ground remains frozen until August, thaws for
a month or so and the refreezes. There are many in my neighborhood who
have put down fabric and rocks round their foundations. These tend to be
people who think that landscaping and gardening is a one-time event
instead of an ever-changing tapestry of plants that fit the season and
suit one's fancies.

[WiGard]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:48:04 -0500, Ricky wrote:

> "WiGard" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Weed barrier fabric makes gardening difficult. When plants need to be
>> relocated, the fabric always gets in the way. Weeds still will find a
>> way to root.
>
> True. I never use weed barrier to prevent weeds. It's only real use is to
> prevent rocks from sinking into the soil. You can always cut through it
> plant something with a sharp knife. Remember our soil in S. Florida is
> mostly sand so small rocks tend to disappear over time and foot traffic.


I'm in Wisconsin where the ground remains frozen until August, thaws for
a month or so and the refreezes. There are many in my neighborhood who
have put down fabric and rocks round their foundations. These tend to be
people who think that landscaping and gardening is a one-time event
instead of an ever-changing tapestry of plants that fit the season and
suit one's fancies.

[David J Bockman]

Yes, it will be a bit more time-consuming as you will probably want to lay
your paper down first, then go back and cut an 'X' for each perennial. Pull
the paper back, plant in, and then lay the paper back right up to the stems.
It seems like an inordinate amount of work, but your weeding and maintenance
will be *greatly* decreased if you take the time up front to do it right.

If you're planning an alpine style garden that will use gravel or stone
chips as mulch, I would recommend amending the soil really well first (but
not tilling-- my experience has been that tilling brings up hundreds or
thousands of dormant weed seeds which are activated by the change in
enviorment). Simply top dressing works quite well-- I used this method for
my front mulched bed (Roundup, top dressing, paper/cardboard, mulch) and in
2 years time I noted that the organic material had filtered down a good ten
inches into our Virginia hardpan, creating a rich organic humus. Pretty much
any organic material is good-- shredded leaves/needles, composted cow
manure, peat, grass clippings, shredded bark, straw, it's all good.

Dave

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> Dave, thanks for the advice!
>
> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
> still work with them?
>
>
>
>
> In article >, David J Bockman
> > wrote:
>
> > DD,
> >
> > There's no need to dig it out. Presuming that you're planting in mulched
> > beds, wait the proscribed amount of time as noted in the directions
(10-14
> > days as I recall) and then plant right in through the sod. Once you've
> > planted your larger trees/shrubs, cover everything in thick sheets of
> > newspaper or cardboard and mulch in... you'll be amazed at the fertility
of
> > your soil next season. All that sod will decompose and leach downwards,
> > while the newspaper provides a great biodegradable weed barrier.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "dd" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> > > lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will
be
> > > a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> > > out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> > > and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> > >
> > > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> > > it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> > > the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> > > under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> > >
> > > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >

[David J Bockman]

Yes, it will be a bit more time-consuming as you will probably want to lay
your paper down first, then go back and cut an 'X' for each perennial. Pull
the paper back, plant in, and then lay the paper back right up to the stems.
It seems like an inordinate amount of work, but your weeding and maintenance
will be *greatly* decreased if you take the time up front to do it right.

If you're planning an alpine style garden that will use gravel or stone
chips as mulch, I would recommend amending the soil really well first (but
not tilling-- my experience has been that tilling brings up hundreds or
thousands of dormant weed seeds which are activated by the change in
enviorment). Simply top dressing works quite well-- I used this method for
my front mulched bed (Roundup, top dressing, paper/cardboard, mulch) and in
2 years time I noted that the organic material had filtered down a good ten
inches into our Virginia hardpan, creating a rich organic humus. Pretty much
any organic material is good-- shredded leaves/needles, composted cow
manure, peat, grass clippings, shredded bark, straw, it's all good.

Dave

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> Dave, thanks for the advice!
>
> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
> still work with them?
>
>
>
>
> In article >, David J Bockman
> > wrote:
>
> > DD,
> >
> > There's no need to dig it out. Presuming that you're planting in mulched
> > beds, wait the proscribed amount of time as noted in the directions
(10-14
> > days as I recall) and then plant right in through the sod. Once you've
> > planted your larger trees/shrubs, cover everything in thick sheets of
> > newspaper or cardboard and mulch in... you'll be amazed at the fertility
of
> > your soil next season. All that sod will decompose and leach downwards,
> > while the newspaper provides a great biodegradable weed barrier.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "dd" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> > > lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will
be
> > > a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> > > out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> > > and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> > >
> > > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> > > it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> > > the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> > > under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> > >
> > > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >

[David J Bockman]

Yes, it will be a bit more time-consuming as you will probably want to lay
your paper down first, then go back and cut an 'X' for each perennial. Pull
the paper back, plant in, and then lay the paper back right up to the stems.
It seems like an inordinate amount of work, but your weeding and maintenance
will be *greatly* decreased if you take the time up front to do it right.

If you're planning an alpine style garden that will use gravel or stone
chips as mulch, I would recommend amending the soil really well first (but
not tilling-- my experience has been that tilling brings up hundreds or
thousands of dormant weed seeds which are activated by the change in
enviorment). Simply top dressing works quite well-- I used this method for
my front mulched bed (Roundup, top dressing, paper/cardboard, mulch) and in
2 years time I noted that the organic material had filtered down a good ten
inches into our Virginia hardpan, creating a rich organic humus. Pretty much
any organic material is good-- shredded leaves/needles, composted cow
manure, peat, grass clippings, shredded bark, straw, it's all good.

Dave

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> Dave, thanks for the advice!
>
> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
> still work with them?
>
>
>
>
> In article >, David J Bockman
> > wrote:
>
> > DD,
> >
> > There's no need to dig it out. Presuming that you're planting in mulched
> > beds, wait the proscribed amount of time as noted in the directions
(10-14
> > days as I recall) and then plant right in through the sod. Once you've
> > planted your larger trees/shrubs, cover everything in thick sheets of
> > newspaper or cardboard and mulch in... you'll be amazed at the fertility
of
> > your soil next season. All that sod will decompose and leach downwards,
> > while the newspaper provides a great biodegradable weed barrier.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "dd" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> > > lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will
be
> > > a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> > > out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> > > and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> > >
> > > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> > > it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> > > the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> > > under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> > >
> > > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >

[Pam - gardengal]

"WiGard" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:23:46 +0000, dd wrote:
>
> > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front lawn,
> > or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be a lot
of
> > work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it out, I
will
> > have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot and there is
> > absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> >
> > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will it
> > leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after the
> > grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is under the
> > grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> >
> > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> >
> > Thanks for any help.
>
> I have used Roundup. It works quite nicely. Once everything is dead and
> the 2-3 week wait is done, till the soil 8-12" deep. Add peat by
> spreading 2" over the tilled area. Retill to incorporate the peat into
> the soil. Now the bed is ready for planting.

I'd recommend at least two applications of Roundup spaced 3 weeks apart if
that is the route you choose to follow. The roots of many lawn grasses tend
to be very persistant and the double dose seems to provide better results.

Peat is pretty much worthless as a soil amendment and is non-renewable
resource as well. Add some good quality compost instead. - not sterile and
with greater nutrient content than peat. Adds better pore space as well. I
do agree that taking the time to correctly improve your soil will be of
considerable benefit in the long run. BTW, digging up at least portions of
the sod (perhaps for pathways?) and piling it upside down on the areas you
designate for planting will give your little front garden some needed change
in topography that is visually stimulating and will accent your rock garden
plants and rocks better than a flat terrain. Ad a few dwarf conifers to
provide some height and year round color/interest, too.

pam - gardengal

[Jim Lewis]

"J Kolenovsky" > wrote in message
...
Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by
covering
with black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass
dies
and decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the
beneficial bacteria that has built up in the soil.

http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/weststreet1.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/cornereast.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/eastgarden2.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/negarden.jpg

JK


============

Actually, though, clear plastic gets hotter quicker (and at
higher temp). I know, it is counterintuitive, but true. The sun
goes through but heat doesn't go back out, so sun keeps
building -- al la greenhouse. And, SOME of the bactees may die;
their susceptibility to temperature varies. But no big deal.
They come back.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

[David J Bockman]

Yes, it will be a bit more time-consuming as you will probably want to lay
your paper down first, then go back and cut an 'X' for each perennial. Pull
the paper back, plant in, and then lay the paper back right up to the stems.
It seems like an inordinate amount of work, but your weeding and maintenance
will be *greatly* decreased if you take the time up front to do it right.

If you're planning an alpine style garden that will use gravel or stone
chips as mulch, I would recommend amending the soil really well first (but
not tilling-- my experience has been that tilling brings up hundreds or
thousands of dormant weed seeds which are activated by the change in
enviorment). Simply top dressing works quite well-- I used this method for
my front mulched bed (Roundup, top dressing, paper/cardboard, mulch) and in
2 years time I noted that the organic material had filtered down a good ten
inches into our Virginia hardpan, creating a rich organic humus. Pretty much
any organic material is good-- shredded leaves/needles, composted cow
manure, peat, grass clippings, shredded bark, straw, it's all good.

Dave

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> Dave, thanks for the advice!
>
> I won't be planting any trees or shrubs, just a lot of small
> plants--many of which will be rock-garden plants. Will this method
> still work with them?
>
>
>
>
> In article >, David J Bockman
> > wrote:
>
> > DD,
> >
> > There's no need to dig it out. Presuming that you're planting in mulched
> > beds, wait the proscribed amount of time as noted in the directions
(10-14
> > days as I recall) and then plant right in through the sod. Once you've
> > planted your larger trees/shrubs, cover everything in thick sheets of
> > newspaper or cardboard and mulch in... you'll be amazed at the fertility
of
> > your soil next season. All that sod will decompose and leach downwards,
> > while the newspaper provides a great biodegradable weed barrier.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "dd" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> > > lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will
be
> > > a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> > > out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> > > and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> > >
> > > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> > > it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> > > the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> > > under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> > >
> > > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >

[Jim Lewis]

"WiGard" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:15:33 -0600, J Kolenovsky wrote:
>
> > Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by
covering with
> > black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass
dies and
> > decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the
beneficial
> > bacteria that has built up in the soil.
>
>
> This works great but takes an inordinate amount of time. You
could easily
> spend an entire season waiting for the grass to die and be
reduced by worm
> action.

2-3 weeks with clear plastic. It gets HOT under there!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

[Ricky]

"WiGard" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in Wisconsin where the ground remains frozen until August, thaws for
> a month or so and the refreezes. There are many in my neighborhood who
> have put down fabric and rocks round their foundations. These tend to be
> people who think that landscaping and gardening is a one-time event
> instead of an ever-changing tapestry of plants that fit the season and
> suit one's fancies.

True, the plants change over time. But the rocks will probably stay the
same... unless you water and feed them.

[J Kolenovsky]

Clear would get truly hot. I wanted to deprive light so I went with
black. Either way, it gets the job done.


Jim Lewis wrote:
> =

> "J Kolenovsky" > wrote in message
> ...
> Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by
> covering
> with black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass
> dies
> and decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the
> beneficial bacteria that has built up in the soil.
> =

> http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/weststreet1.jpg
> http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/cornereast.jpg
> http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/eastgarden2.jpg
> http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/negarden.jpg
> =

> JK
> =

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =

> Actually, though, clear plastic gets hotter quicker (and at
> higher temp). I know, it is counterintuitive, but true. The sun
> goes through but heat doesn't go back out, so sun keeps
> building -- al la greenhouse. And, SOME of the bactees may die;
> their susceptibility to temperature varies. But no big deal.
> They come back.
> =

> Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
> encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

-- =

Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

[Pam - gardengal]

"WiGard" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:23:46 +0000, dd wrote:
>
> > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front lawn,
> > or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be a lot
of
> > work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it out, I
will
> > have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot and there is
> > absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> >
> > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will it
> > leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after the
> > grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is under the
> > grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> >
> > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> >
> > Thanks for any help.
>
> I have used Roundup. It works quite nicely. Once everything is dead and
> the 2-3 week wait is done, till the soil 8-12" deep. Add peat by
> spreading 2" over the tilled area. Retill to incorporate the peat into
> the soil. Now the bed is ready for planting.

I'd recommend at least two applications of Roundup spaced 3 weeks apart if
that is the route you choose to follow. The roots of many lawn grasses tend
to be very persistant and the double dose seems to provide better results.

Peat is pretty much worthless as a soil amendment and is non-renewable
resource as well. Add some good quality compost instead. - not sterile and
with greater nutrient content than peat. Adds better pore space as well. I
do agree that taking the time to correctly improve your soil will be of
considerable benefit in the long run. BTW, digging up at least portions of
the sod (perhaps for pathways?) and piling it upside down on the areas you
designate for planting will give your little front garden some needed change
in topography that is visually stimulating and will accent your rock garden
plants and rocks better than a flat terrain. Ad a few dwarf conifers to
provide some height and year round color/interest, too.

pam - gardengal

[Jim Lewis]

"J Kolenovsky" > wrote in message
...
Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by
covering
with black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass
dies
and decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the
beneficial bacteria that has built up in the soil.

http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/weststreet1.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/cornereast.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/eastgarden2.jpg
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/negarden.jpg

JK


============

Actually, though, clear plastic gets hotter quicker (and at
higher temp). I know, it is counterintuitive, but true. The sun
goes through but heat doesn't go back out, so sun keeps
building -- al la greenhouse. And, SOME of the bactees may die;
their susceptibility to temperature varies. But no big deal.
They come back.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Jim Lewis]

"WiGard" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:15:33 -0600, J Kolenovsky wrote:
>
> > Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by
covering with
> > black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass
dies and
> > decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the
beneficial
> > bacteria that has built up in the soil.
>
>
> This works great but takes an inordinate amount of time. You
could easily
> spend an entire season waiting for the grass to die and be
reduced by worm
> action.

2-3 weeks with clear plastic. It gets HOT under there!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

[Ricky]

"WiGard" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in Wisconsin where the ground remains frozen until August, thaws for
> a month or so and the refreezes. There are many in my neighborhood who
> have put down fabric and rocks round their foundations. These tend to be
> people who think that landscaping and gardening is a one-time event
> instead of an ever-changing tapestry of plants that fit the season and
> suit one's fancies.

True, the plants change over time. But the rocks will probably stay the
same... unless you water and feed them.

[J Kolenovsky]

Clear would get truly hot. I wanted to deprive light so I went with
black. Either way, it gets the job done.


Jim Lewis wrote:
> =

> "J Kolenovsky" > wrote in message
> ...
> Something else that works well is "solarizing" the grass by
> covering
> with black plastic that is well anchored down over it. The grass
> dies
> and decomposes due to worm action and you aven't lost any of the
> beneficial bacteria that has built up in the soil.
> =

> http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/weststreet1.jpg
> http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/cornereast.jpg
> http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/eastgarden2.jpg
> http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/negarden.jpg
> =

> JK
> =

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =

> Actually, though, clear plastic gets hotter quicker (and at
> higher temp). I know, it is counterintuitive, but true. The sun
> goes through but heat doesn't go back out, so sun keeps
> building -- al la greenhouse. And, SOME of the bactees may die;
> their susceptibility to temperature varies. But no big deal.
> They come back.
> =

> Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
> encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

-- =

Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

[dd]

Thanks for all the advice! We will do Roundup followed by plastic. The
BIG ROCKS idea is great too--and there's no shortage of them.



In article >, dd
> wrote:

> This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
> a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
>
> So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
>
> Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> alternative to digging out all that sod.
>
> Thanks for any help.

[paghat]

In article >, dd
> wrote:

> Thanks for all the advice! We will do Roundup followed by plastic. The
> BIG ROCKS idea is great too--and there's no shortage of them.

DON'T use Round-up. Glyphosate is detectible in soil a year after use
despite company claims to the contrary, & it's surficant is a very
long-lasting danger to watersheds & amphibian life. Herbicides are just
generally a bad idea. It also doesn't work perfectly well on lawns unless
SLATHERED with the poison on hot days -- if you use the correct amount
within allegedly safe (but not actually safe) limits, you'll end up with
patches of black dead grass here & there, sickly live grass in some
places, dense roots no easier to dig out than if you hadn't made the grass
look unpleasant first, weeds seeding themselves throughout very happily &
leaping to life unless excesses of herbicide are slathered on again every
time the wind blows, & what you end up with is a cancerous looking
******** of scabrous ugliness hard-packed & difficult to dig off the whole
surface or plow under, just a crappy mess leaving you more work to restore
to anything worthwhile -- just about as much work as had you not bothered
to turn it into a patchy-scabrous & toxified horror beforehand.

As is so often the case, a purely ORGANIC approach is not only healthier
for the yard (& the world), but even WORKS BETTER: Lay corregated
cardboard or many layers of newspaper covering the whole lawn area that
you want gone. Then place a sterile manure mulch an inch thick on top of
the paper, which makes the area look rather like fresh topsoil, plus the
blackness of the manure compost heats up the grass underneath, to the
point of rapid death. The combination of heat & lack of sun kills ALL the
grass & weeds, & worms turn the dead grass to healthful loam rather than
you turning it to scabrous black half-living filthy-looking patches. Worms
will also begin eating the cardboard & paper whenever it is wet, so that
by the time all the grass has been completely killed by heat & lack of
sun, the paper like the grass itself will be reduced to nothing but
healthful wholesome loam. (Only paper that wasn't sufficiently buried
under a layer of compost or never got moist will remain, there'll
otherwise be no sign of it). Worms just LOVE the dying matter under the
paper & the paper itself, so by the time this process is finished, the
worms & bacterial activity will have aerated & mixed the soil sufficiently
that it is all healthy loam, & loosened enough by worms to turn quite
easily for gardens. There'll be no matted half-dead roots to discard,
it'll be nice loamy soil.

I've used this method even for hard-packed roadside areas that were dense
with weeds & meadow grasses. These were completely weedless with a season
of such treatment. If I get impatient, the most that remains is some
dandylion carrots, easily discarded as I turn the self-loosened soil.
Large areas that would otherwise have taken weeks of agonizing
muscle-aches & sweat to dig up were very easily turned with just a couple
hours work. As you say you have no place to compost, you'd be throwing
away tons of topsoil, but this organic method composts in situ & wastes no
nutrients.

I have already this month turned a big roadside area into a new
sun-garden & it took me about three hours. My sweety went off on erands &
when she came back, there were in the morning there was nothing there was
suddenly a new garden with torch lilies, succulent ice plant, rockroses,
leafless fruit tree, rose-of-sharon, hybrid broom, & lambs-ears all placed
out in fresh-turned soil. It surprised even me it took no time at all --
some of it having waited some whiole in pots to be planted, some of it
transplanted from other gardens. It happened so swiftly it was almost
disappointing I couldn't fuss with it for a week, it just all went
together presto because I'd killed the grass & weeds by the method above &
ended up with soil already nearly ready for planting. I wacked it a few
places with a pick, shoveled it all upside down so that the topcoating
mulch & the worm-devoured grass was mixed a bit into the soil, & laid in
some plants. I'd covered the area late last year & it took autumn & winter
to work, but if it were done in warmer seasons it is much faster, & you
can even punch holes here & there & plant at least woody shrubs or trees
well before the overall area is actually ready for an extensive perennial
garden. I tried the herbicide method back when I was "95% organic" & would
still excuse myself for cheating if I thought it was the best way -- but
it soon becomes obviously never the best way & is not a labor-saving
shortcut at all. Herbicides were not merely not really necessary, but
still demanded much harder work to repair the resulting eyesoar, work
easily avoided by the more effective non-chemical method.

Next roadside location to be similarly treated is for rugosa roses & an
as-yet undecided tree. The roses are already waiting in pots for me to get
round to it, biggish ones gotten half-price during an off-season sale.

-paghat the ratgirl

> In article >, dd
> > wrote:
>
> > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> > lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
> > a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> > out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> > and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> >
> > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> > it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> > the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> > under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> >
> > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> >
> > Thanks for any help.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

[dd]

Thanks for all the advice! We will do Roundup followed by plastic. The
BIG ROCKS idea is great too--and there's no shortage of them.



In article >, dd
> wrote:

> This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
> a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
>
> So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
>
> Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> alternative to digging out all that sod.
>
> Thanks for any help.

[cheshirecat]

I can barely walk sometimes and the way I get rid of it is by digging it out. I
don't recommend you use chemical herbicides, such as Round Up because they are
toxic to soil fauna and flora and when soil is not healthy, nothing else which
grows in it will be healthy. Get yourself a sharp spade and cut the sold and
dig it out.


On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:23:46 GMT, dd > opined:

>This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
>lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
>a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
>out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
>and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
>
>So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
>it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
>the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
>under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
>
>Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
>alternative to digging out all that sod.
>
>Thanks for any help.

[paghat]

In article >, dd
> wrote:

> Thanks for all the advice! We will do Roundup followed by plastic. The
> BIG ROCKS idea is great too--and there's no shortage of them.

DON'T use Round-up. Glyphosate is detectible in soil a year after use
despite company claims to the contrary, & it's surficant is a very
long-lasting danger to watersheds & amphibian life. Herbicides are just
generally a bad idea. It also doesn't work perfectly well on lawns unless
SLATHERED with the poison on hot days -- if you use the correct amount
within allegedly safe (but not actually safe) limits, you'll end up with
patches of black dead grass here & there, sickly live grass in some
places, dense roots no easier to dig out than if you hadn't made the grass
look unpleasant first, weeds seeding themselves throughout very happily &
leaping to life unless excesses of herbicide are slathered on again every
time the wind blows, & what you end up with is a cancerous looking
******** of scabrous ugliness hard-packed & difficult to dig off the whole
surface or plow under, just a crappy mess leaving you more work to restore
to anything worthwhile -- just about as much work as had you not bothered
to turn it into a patchy-scabrous & toxified horror beforehand.

As is so often the case, a purely ORGANIC approach is not only healthier
for the yard (& the world), but even WORKS BETTER: Lay corregated
cardboard or many layers of newspaper covering the whole lawn area that
you want gone. Then place a sterile manure mulch an inch thick on top of
the paper, which makes the area look rather like fresh topsoil, plus the
blackness of the manure compost heats up the grass underneath, to the
point of rapid death. The combination of heat & lack of sun kills ALL the
grass & weeds, & worms turn the dead grass to healthful loam rather than
you turning it to scabrous black half-living filthy-looking patches. Worms
will also begin eating the cardboard & paper whenever it is wet, so that
by the time all the grass has been completely killed by heat & lack of
sun, the paper like the grass itself will be reduced to nothing but
healthful wholesome loam. (Only paper that wasn't sufficiently buried
under a layer of compost or never got moist will remain, there'll
otherwise be no sign of it). Worms just LOVE the dying matter under the
paper & the paper itself, so by the time this process is finished, the
worms & bacterial activity will have aerated & mixed the soil sufficiently
that it is all healthy loam, & loosened enough by worms to turn quite
easily for gardens. There'll be no matted half-dead roots to discard,
it'll be nice loamy soil.

I've used this method even for hard-packed roadside areas that were dense
with weeds & meadow grasses. These were completely weedless with a season
of such treatment. If I get impatient, the most that remains is some
dandylion carrots, easily discarded as I turn the self-loosened soil.
Large areas that would otherwise have taken weeks of agonizing
muscle-aches & sweat to dig up were very easily turned with just a couple
hours work. As you say you have no place to compost, you'd be throwing
away tons of topsoil, but this organic method composts in situ & wastes no
nutrients.

I have already this month turned a big roadside area into a new
sun-garden & it took me about three hours. My sweety went off on erands &
when she came back, there were in the morning there was nothing there was
suddenly a new garden with torch lilies, succulent ice plant, rockroses,
leafless fruit tree, rose-of-sharon, hybrid broom, & lambs-ears all placed
out in fresh-turned soil. It surprised even me it took no time at all --
some of it having waited some whiole in pots to be planted, some of it
transplanted from other gardens. It happened so swiftly it was almost
disappointing I couldn't fuss with it for a week, it just all went
together presto because I'd killed the grass & weeds by the method above &
ended up with soil already nearly ready for planting. I wacked it a few
places with a pick, shoveled it all upside down so that the topcoating
mulch & the worm-devoured grass was mixed a bit into the soil, & laid in
some plants. I'd covered the area late last year & it took autumn & winter
to work, but if it were done in warmer seasons it is much faster, & you
can even punch holes here & there & plant at least woody shrubs or trees
well before the overall area is actually ready for an extensive perennial
garden. I tried the herbicide method back when I was "95% organic" & would
still excuse myself for cheating if I thought it was the best way -- but
it soon becomes obviously never the best way & is not a labor-saving
shortcut at all. Herbicides were not merely not really necessary, but
still demanded much harder work to repair the resulting eyesoar, work
easily avoided by the more effective non-chemical method.

Next roadside location to be similarly treated is for rugosa roses & an
as-yet undecided tree. The roses are already waiting in pots for me to get
round to it, biggish ones gotten half-price during an off-season sale.

-paghat the ratgirl

> In article >, dd
> > wrote:
>
> > This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
> > lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
> > a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
> > out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
> > and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
> >
> > So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
> > it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
> > the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
> > under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
> >
> > Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
> > alternative to digging out all that sod.
> >
> > Thanks for any help.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

[Stephen M. Henning]

dd > wrote:

> Thanks for all the advice! We will do Roundup followed by plastic. The
> BIG ROCKS idea is great too--and there's no shortage of them.
>

Rutgers University had a huge field that was basically in wild orchard
grasses. They wanted to reseed it with a good field grass blend. They
sprayed it with roundup. Then a couple days later, they sewed the new
lawn seed. The new seed germinated and came it at about the same rate
as the old lawn died. Most people didn't even realize there was a
change since it happened so smoothly and with such a gradual transition.
There was so little residual roundup in the soil that it had no effect
on the new turf.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

[Dick Hertz]

"Stephen M. Henning" > wrote in message
...
> dd > wrote:
>> Rutgers University had a huge field that was basically in wild orchard
> grasses. They wanted to reseed it with a good field grass blend. They
> sprayed it with roundup. Then a couple days later, they sewed the new
> lawn seed.

What size needle and thread did they use?

[dd]

Thanks to all who responded! You gave me some great ideas. Any
recommendations for good dwarf evergreens--that stay dwarf? Several
years ago, I got something at Home Depot that was supposed to be a
dwarf, but it turned into a monster and I had to dig it out.

[cheshirecat]

I can barely walk sometimes and the way I get rid of it is by digging it out. I
don't recommend you use chemical herbicides, such as Round Up because they are
toxic to soil fauna and flora and when soil is not healthy, nothing else which
grows in it will be healthy. Get yourself a sharp spade and cut the sold and
dig it out.


On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:23:46 GMT, dd > opined:

>This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our front
>lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It will be
>a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod. After I dig it
>out, I will have to put it in the garbage. (We have a small urban lot
>and there is absolutely no place to compost the sold or hide it.)
>
>So, will using Round-up kill the grass in a satisfactory manner? Will
>it leave soil in which I can plant new plants in a month or so after
>the grass is dead? Will the Round-up hurt the dogwood tree that is
>under the grass? Will it hurt the birds who visit my garden?
>
>Normally, I am not a fan of Round-up, but it does seem like a good
>alternative to digging out all that sod.
>
>Thanks for any help.

[Stephen M. Henning]

dd > wrote:

> Thanks for all the advice! We will do Roundup followed by plastic. The
> BIG ROCKS idea is great too--and there's no shortage of them.
>

Rutgers University had a huge field that was basically in wild orchard
grasses. They wanted to reseed it with a good field grass blend. They
sprayed it with roundup. Then a couple days later, they sewed the new
lawn seed. The new seed germinated and came it at about the same rate
as the old lawn died. Most people didn't even realize there was a
change since it happened so smoothly and with such a gradual transition.
There was so little residual roundup in the soil that it had no effect
on the new turf.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

[Dick Hertz]

"Stephen M. Henning" > wrote in message
...
> dd > wrote:
>> Rutgers University had a huge field that was basically in wild orchard
> grasses. They wanted to reseed it with a good field grass blend. They
> sprayed it with roundup. Then a couple days later, they sewed the new
> lawn seed.

What size needle and thread did they use?

[dd]

Thanks to all who responded! You gave me some great ideas. Any
recommendations for good dwarf evergreens--that stay dwarf? Several
years ago, I got something at Home Depot that was supposed to be a
dwarf, but it turned into a monster and I had to dig it out.

[David J Bockman]

where do you live, dd?

Dave

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks to all who responded! You gave me some great ideas. Any
> recommendations for good dwarf evergreens--that stay dwarf? Several
> years ago, I got something at Home Depot that was supposed to be a
> dwarf, but it turned into a monster and I had to dig it out.

[dd]

Zone 6, in a Boston suburb. This winter has been so bad, though, it
seems like the Arctic...


In article >, David J Bockman
> wrote:

> where do you live, dd?
>
> Dave
>
> "dd" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thanks to all who responded! You gave me some great ideas. Any
> > recommendations for good dwarf evergreens--that stay dwarf? Several
> > years ago, I got something at Home Depot that was supposed to be a
> > dwarf, but it turned into a monster and I had to dig it out.
>
>

[Bob]

"dd" > wrote in message
...
> This spring, we are taking the plunge and getting rid of our
front
> lawn, or what's left of it. It covers about 200 square feet. It
will be
> a lot of work for me (older female) to dig out the sod.

Rent a sod cutter. Cut and remove the sod. Most of the weed seeds
waiting to sprout will go with it. You will have a much more weed
free bed than you would using roundup, which doesn't necessarily
kill seeds.

Bob