what a mess :(

[Deborah F. Ryan]

Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen orchids.
All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average internal
temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they have
been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the mat
and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the highest
shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly a
week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing them
indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
feeling sick...
Thanks in advance!
peace...debbie

[Gareth Wills]

You don't mention what kinds of orchids you have. Recovery will be really
iffy on some, and just a matter of time for others. I'd move them away from
the heat. As long any pseudobulbs are still firm, you stand a good chance.
Phals, paphs, vandas etc are, well....chances are not good.
Good luck. Sorry for heartbreak.
Gary
"Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
...
> Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
> answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen orchids.
> All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average internal
> temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they
have
> been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
> moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
> Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the
mat
> and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
highest
> shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly a
> week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing
them
> indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
> feeling sick...
> Thanks in advance!
> peace...debbie
>
>

[Steve]

Deborah F. Ryan wrote:

> Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the mat
> and the plants look just awful.

Deborah, I'm having trouble understanding how it got cold enough to
freeze the pots to the mat if it was well above freezing. Unless you can
explain, I'm thinking you need a new thermometer. ;-)

Steve

[Wendy]

How very sad Debbie, Did your heating system fail? Not sure how your self
watering tray works but if it were me, I would have a backup heating system
& heating cables.
Keep in touch & I will send you something in the spring.
Cheers Wendy
"Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
...
| Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
| answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen orchids.
| All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average internal
| temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they
have
| been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
| moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
| Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the
mat
| and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
highest
| shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly a
| week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing
them
| indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
| feeling sick...
| Thanks in advance!
| peace...debbie
|
|

[Deborah F. Ryan]

Thanks Gary. Appreciate the optimistic outlook that there is a shard of hope
for some. I'm pretty orchid dumb when it comes to what species they are.
One for certain is a Lady Slipper, and a know a few are Phals. I've just
always had a hard time pronouncing the names, and trying to spell them would
be even worse. Just came home from shopping and picked up a small reference
book to see if I can identify the others. Soon as I'm able to figure them
out, I'll be sure and let you know. Thanks again for taking the time.
peace...
debbie

"Gareth Wills" > wrote in message
...
> You don't mention what kinds of orchids you have. Recovery will be really
> iffy on some, and just a matter of time for others. I'd move them away
from
> the heat. As long any pseudobulbs are still firm, you stand a good chance.
> Phals, paphs, vandas etc are, well....chances are not good.
> Good luck. Sorry for heartbreak.
> Gary

> "Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
> > answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen
orchids.
> > All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average
internal
> > temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they
> have
> > been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
> > moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
> > Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the
> mat
> > and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
> highest
> > shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly
a
> > week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing
> them
> > indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
> > feeling sick...
> > Thanks in advance!
> > peace...debbie
> >
> >
>
>

[Deborah F. Ryan]

Steve, my husband and I have gone over this a number of times, and the only
thing we can figure out is that the seal around the door simply isn't sealed
at all (have a rubber container filled with water plants that froze too, and
yup, right smack next to the door), and where we have the thermometer
located probably isn't the best place for it to be. We *thought* keeping it
at the center of the little greenhouse on the upper shelf would give us a
pretty good idea, but clearly...heat rises...duh. I had moved all the
plants to the lower shelf early last season and it just never crossed my
mind (particularly since we insulated the floor in the Fall) that this would
happen. I do think you've hit on something and Will check the batteries.
Thanks again. I appreciate your taking the time.
peace...
debbie

"Steve" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Deborah F. Ryan wrote:
>
> > Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the
mat
> > and the plants look just awful.
>
> Deborah, I'm having trouble understanding how it got cold enough to
> freeze the pots to the mat if it was well above freezing. Unless you can
> explain, I'm thinking you need a new thermometer. ;-)
>
> Steve
>

[Deborah F. Ryan]

Thank you, Wendy. It's not likely that the system failed since it's a gas
heater (wall mounted) and is connected the main line to our home. I just
simply screwed up :( The self watering trays are really handy. Particularly
when you're on the go a lot...as we are. The tray has an insert that a
piece of matting lays on and wicks the water as needed. NW Indiana hasn't
had it's usual -0 temps, but we've had a few nights where it dipped pretty
low. I normally just sit back and read what y'all are up, but figured if
anyone could shed a little hope, it would be y'all. Thanks for everything.
It's very much appreciated.
peace...
debbie

"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
> How very sad Debbie, Did your heating system fail? Not sure how your self
> watering tray works but if it were me, I would have a backup heating
system
> & heating cables.
> Keep in touch & I will send you something in the spring.
> Cheers Wendy
> "Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
> | answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen
orchids.
> | All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average
internal
> | temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they
> have
> | been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
> | moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
> | Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the
> mat
> | and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
> highest
> | shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly
a
> | week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing
> them
> | indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
> | feeling sick...
> | Thanks in advance!
> | peace...debbie
> |
> |
>
>

[profpam]

Hi, Deborah,

I don't understand how they entirely froze while in a greenhouse. While
in Sinapore in 90's, our timer caused a flood to the greenhouse, which
in turn shut off the electricity. Temperatures went down to 33 degrees
F. I only lost a few plants. Your temperatures must have been in the
freezing range for many hours. Yes, I have had a cymbidiums that were
kept outside in freezing temperatures for many hours. Rescuing such
plants is not a precise science; however, you might gradually try
raising the temperature and then applying Captan (a fungicide). Once
the structure of a plant fails there is little hope for it. Sorry to
hear about your experience.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

----------------------------------
"Deborah F. Ryan" wrote:
>
> Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
> answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen orchids.
> All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average internal
> temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they have
> been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
> moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
> Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the mat
> and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the highest
> shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly a
> week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing them
> indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
> feeling sick...
> Thanks in advance!
> peace...debbie

[michael exler]

I get the impression you have very little air movement in your greenhouse?
This alone will give you lots of problems.
next would to better insulate the door.
As far as the plants the damage is done, just watch them close for signs of
rot and remove it quickly so it does not spread to the rest of the plant.
Remember to sterilize any tools and open cuts you make.
In particular Phal's will quickly show damage to leaves, so try to protect
the crown from any spreading rot caused by freezing.
Michael

"Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
...
> Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
> answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen orchids.
> All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average internal
> temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they
have
> been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
> moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
> Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the
mat
> and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
highest
> shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly a
> week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing
them
> indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
> feeling sick...
> Thanks in advance!
> peace...debbie
>
>
>

[Deborah F. Ryan]

I don't know if you recall about two weeks (perhaps three) ago the bad snow
Tennessee had, but to make a long story short, I had to make an unexpected
trip to Alabama. Tennessee wasn't moving at all, and I was stranded. With
everything that was going on, I never gave the little greenhouse much
thought. Our temps took a huge hit during that time. All the other
tropicals seem to be ok, so it Had to be the self watering tray and being so
close to the door. Which, as of last night we covered with plastic. Thank
you for the tip. I'll defiantly look into it. This morning they are looking
even worse, but I'm not giving up.
peace...
debbie

"profpam" > wrote in message ...
> Hi, Deborah,
>
> I don't understand how they entirely froze while in a greenhouse. While
> in Sinapore in 90's, our timer caused a flood to the greenhouse, which
> in turn shut off the electricity. Temperatures went down to 33 degrees
> F. I only lost a few plants. Your temperatures must have been in the
> freezing range for many hours. Yes, I have had a cymbidiums that were
> kept outside in freezing temperatures for many hours. Rescuing such
> plants is not a precise science; however, you might gradually try
> raising the temperature and then applying Captan (a fungicide). Once
> the structure of a plant fails there is little hope for it. Sorry to
> hear about your experience.
>
> . . . Pam
> Everything Orchid Management System
> http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html
>
> ----------------------------------
> "Deborah F. Ryan" wrote:
> >
> > Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
> > answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen
orchids.
> > All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average
internal
> > temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they
have
> > been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
> > moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
> > Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the
mat
> > and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
highest
> > shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly
a
> > week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing
them
> > indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
> > feeling sick...
> > Thanks in advance!
> > peace...debbie

[Deborah F. Ryan]

Could you be a little more specific with regards to air movement? We do
keep a fan going during the heat of July, but it never occurred to me that
it would be necessary during the winter months. I'll surely keep in mind to
keep things sterile. So far what damaged leaves that needed to be removed, I
did by hand. Probably not a good thing, huh? Thanks for taking the time. I
really appreciate it.
peace...
debbie

"michael exler" > wrote in message
m...
> I get the impression you have very little air movement in your greenhouse?
> This alone will give you lots of problems.
> next would to better insulate the door.
> As far as the plants the damage is done, just watch them close for signs
of
> rot and remove it quickly so it does not spread to the rest of the plant.
> Remember to sterilize any tools and open cuts you make.
> In particular Phal's will quickly show damage to leaves, so try to protect
> the crown from any spreading rot caused by freezing.
> Michael
>
> "Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find the
> > answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen
orchids.
> > All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average
internal
> > temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they
> have
> > been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they were
> > moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
> > Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to the
> mat
> > and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
> highest
> > shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been nearly
a
> > week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would bringing
> them
> > indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk about
> > feeling sick...
> > Thanks in advance!
> > peace...debbie
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Susan Erickson]

On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:05:24 -0600, "Deborah F. Ryan"
> wrote:

>Could you be a little more specific with regards to air movement? We do
>keep a fan going during the heat of July, but it never occurred to me that
>it would be necessary during the winter months. I'll surely keep in mind to
>keep things sterile. So far what damaged leaves that needed to be removed, I
>did by hand. Probably not a good thing, huh? Thanks for taking the time. I
>really appreciate it.
>peace...
>debbie

Debbie -
You need to keep the air stirred up in there to circulate the
heat you do have. This will help keep the area from having
pockets of hot and pockets of cold. So out with the fan.
Your Orchids sound much too wet for winter. Most want to dry out
between waterings even in the summer. To keep the mix wet all
the time causes it to sour and rot faster. Keep the damaged
plants out of sun and let them dry out. You need to find out what
is going to live. I would take the mix off to find out if the
roots are mush. Put the plant and the tag in a clean dry pot to
examine again in a day. Spray with Physan to stop fungus rot.

SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

[michael exler]

Hi Debbie,
Air movement is a key element needed for most epiphytes.
Often over looked, it will solve a lot of problems such as root rot,
freezing, spider mites and low humidity.
Most of them (epiphytes) are attached to trees that recieve lots of wind and
breeze,
allowing them to dry and keeping most nasties like fungus and bugs away.
Now I am not saying you need a wind tunnel, but there should not be any
stale air allowed for any length of time.
A simple fan will work at night, with more air movement during the day.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
thanks,
Michael

"Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
...
> Could you be a little more specific with regards to air movement? We do
> keep a fan going during the heat of July, but it never occurred to me
that
> it would be necessary during the winter months. I'll surely keep in mind
to
> keep things sterile. So far what damaged leaves that needed to be removed,
I
> did by hand. Probably not a good thing, huh? Thanks for taking the time.
I
> really appreciate it.
> peace...
> debbie
>
> "michael exler" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I get the impression you have very little air movement in your
greenhouse?
> > This alone will give you lots of problems.
> > next would to better insulate the door.
> > As far as the plants the damage is done, just watch them close for signs
> of
> > rot and remove it quickly so it does not spread to the rest of the
plant.
> > Remember to sterilize any tools and open cuts you make.
> > In particular Phal's will quickly show damage to leaves, so try to
protect
> > the crown from any spreading rot caused by freezing.
> > Michael
> >
> > "Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find
the
> > > answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen
> orchids.
> > > All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average
> internal
> > > temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray they
> > have
> > > been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they
were
> > > moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part :(
> > > Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to
the
> > mat
> > > and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
> > highest
> > > shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been
nearly
> a
> > > week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would
bringing
> > them
> > > indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk
about
> > > feeling sick...
> > > Thanks in advance!
> > > peace...debbie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Gene Schurg]

Deborah,

I keep my two fans running 24 hours a day. There are times it feels like a
hurracane in my Greenhouse but it does really help.

The plants get tougher too because of the natural air movement they have in
nature.

About the only time I turn the fans off is when I'm working out there on a
sunny day and I want it to be quiet or want to listen to music.

Good Luck ... I hope your plants can recover.

Gene

[Deborah F. Ryan]

SuE, thank you so very much! I have a small fan that should work perfectly.
Time has gotten away from me, and I didn't realize that we leave this Sunday
for two weeks. I can see I have my work cut out for tomorrow (no extra pots
on hand and only one small bag of orchid mix), *and* I've already
commissioned a friend to come over daily to keep an eye on things. Where
would we be without dear friends? As much as I'd like to pull my hair out
over this, there's No doubt I have learned a great deal. Thank all of you
Very Much!
peace...
debbie

"Susan Erickson" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:05:24 -0600, "Deborah F. Ryan"
> > wrote:
>
> >Could you be a little more specific with regards to air movement? We do
> >keep a fan going during the heat of July, but it never occurred to me
that
> >it would be necessary during the winter months. I'll surely keep in mind
to
> >keep things sterile. So far what damaged leaves that needed to be
removed, I
> >did by hand. Probably not a good thing, huh? Thanks for taking the
time. I
> >really appreciate it.
> >peace...
> >debbie
>
> Debbie -
> You need to keep the air stirred up in there to circulate the
> heat you do have. This will help keep the area from having
> pockets of hot and pockets of cold. So out with the fan.
> Your Orchids sound much too wet for winter. Most want to dry out
> between waterings even in the summer. To keep the mix wet all
> the time causes it to sour and rot faster. Keep the damaged
> plants out of sun and let them dry out. You need to find out what
> is going to live. I would take the mix off to find out if the
> roots are mush. Put the plant and the tag in a clean dry pot to
> examine again in a day. Spray with Physan to stop fungus rot.
>
> SuE
> http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

[Deborah F. Ryan]

Thank you Michael. Hopefully this 7" fan will be sufficient. And, you're
More than welcomed to get back On your soapbox anytime you wish ;^)
peace...
debbie

"michael exler" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi Debbie,
> Air movement is a key element needed for most epiphytes.
> Often over looked, it will solve a lot of problems such as root rot,
> freezing, spider mites and low humidity.
> Most of them (epiphytes) are attached to trees that recieve lots of wind
and
> breeze,
> allowing them to dry and keeping most nasties like fungus and bugs away.
> Now I am not saying you need a wind tunnel, but there should not be any
> stale air allowed for any length of time.
> A simple fan will work at night, with more air movement during the day.
> I'll get off my soapbox now.
> thanks,
> Michael
>
> "Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Could you be a little more specific with regards to air movement? We do
> > keep a fan going during the heat of July, but it never occurred to me
> that
> > it would be necessary during the winter months. I'll surely keep in
mind
> to
> > keep things sterile. So far what damaged leaves that needed to be
removed,
> I
> > did by hand. Probably not a good thing, huh? Thanks for taking the
time.
> I
> > really appreciate it.
> > peace...
> > debbie
> >
> > "michael exler" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > I get the impression you have very little air movement in your
> greenhouse?
> > > This alone will give you lots of problems.
> > > next would to better insulate the door.
> > > As far as the plants the damage is done, just watch them close for
signs
> > of
> > > rot and remove it quickly so it does not spread to the rest of the
> plant.
> > > Remember to sterilize any tools and open cuts you make.
> > > In particular Phal's will quickly show damage to leaves, so try to
> protect
> > > the crown from any spreading rot caused by freezing.
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > "Deborah F. Ryan" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Folks, I've been reading through old posts hoping that I could find
> the
> > > > answer (if there is one) to no avail. We only have about a dozen
> > orchids.
> > > > All in our little greenhouse which has managed to keep an average
> > internal
> > > > temp of 60*f (NW Indiana) and all on the same self-watering tray
they
> > > have
> > > > been on for several years. The only difference this year, was they
> were
> > > > moved closer to the door. Obviously, a Really bad move on my part
:(
> > > > Despite the temp being well above freezing, every pot froze solid to
> the
> > > mat
> > > > and the plants look just awful. They were immediately moved to the
> > > highest
> > > > shelf (as close to the heating source as possible), but it's been
> nearly
> > a
> > > > week and they aren't looking any better. At this point, would
> bringing
> > > them
> > > > indoors Really do them in, or just leave them were they are? Talk
> about
> > > > feeling sick...
> > > > Thanks in advance!
> > > > peace...debbie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Deborah F. Ryan]

Xref: news7 rec.gardens.orchids:40673

Gene, I give you my word, I'm going to get right on this. Boy, have I Ever
leaned my lesson! Excellent point you make of the about the effects of
breeze too. Hopefully it will perk up the other tropicals Just in time for
Spring <vbs>
peace...
debbie

"Gene Schurg" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> Deborah,
>
> I keep my two fans running 24 hours a day. There are times it feels like
a
> hurracane in my Greenhouse but it does really help.
>
> The plants get tougher too because of the natural air movement they have
in
> nature.
>
> About the only time I turn the fans off is when I'm working out there on a
> sunny day and I want it to be quiet or want to listen to music.
>
> Good Luck ... I hope your plants can recover.
>
> Gene
>
>