1/4 Acre; I hate to mow it!

[Tim Fierro]

I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to rent
a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass, some
blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It basically
looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it since
moving here.

If it was level, or somewhat less bumpy, and was grass and not a bunch of
brush, I could use my mower to do the job; but I don't have that ideal lawn
and have to work with what I got. :-)

I want to get away from having to rent a brush mower to mow a field and want
to find an alternative.

What I would like is:

1) Eliminate the small patch of blackberry bushes so they do not get
overgrown again and cause problems later.

2) Level the land a bit so there is no crevices and holes on an otherwise
level piece of land.

3) Be able to use a lawnmower, or riding lawnmower, to maintain the back 1/4
acre.

4) Do not want to go overboard with putting in fertilizer, sod, new grass;
as we are not sure if we are going to build back there or not. If bringing
in some dirt and planting seed is the best option, then I can do that
though; but I didn't want the weeds/brush/blackberries to interfere with the
new growth.

First thought, not a gardener by any means, is to now clean up the grass
clippings from the brush mower work that I did today so it is somewhat
clean. Then get a rototiller, or bobcat with attachment, to till the soil.
Then have a bobcat move the dirt around to make it a bit more level. Bring
in dirt if necessary, but it wouldn't be much dirt to bring in to make it
more level and easier to maintain in the future.

But with my above idea, I have to wonder if I am only postponing the obvious
in that as soon as the freshly tilled land gets sun and water; those little
seedlings of grass/blackberries/brush/weeds/etc... will just grow again. I
want the grass, but not the other stuff. :-)

I am not sure what I should be doing with that area, but I know I don't want
to use a brush mower every time it needs mowing. I would rather go buy a
riding mower once I have something easier to cut and easier to drive on.

Can anyone offer suggestions on a direction I should go to maybe make this
area manageable?




--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[zxcvbob]

Tim Fierro wrote:
> I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to rent
> a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass, some
> blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It basically
> looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it since
> moving here.
>
> If it was level, or somewhat less bumpy, and was grass and not a bunch of
> brush, I could use my mower to do the job; but I don't have that ideal lawn
> and have to work with what I got. :-)
>
> I want to get away from having to rent a brush mower to mow a field and want
> to find an alternative.
>
> What I would like is:
>
> 1) Eliminate the small patch of blackberry bushes so they do not get
> overgrown again and cause problems later.
>
> 2) Level the land a bit so there is no crevices and holes on an otherwise
> level piece of land.
>
> 3) Be able to use a lawnmower, or riding lawnmower, to maintain the back 1/4
> acre.
>
> 4) Do not want to go overboard with putting in fertilizer, sod, new grass;
> as we are not sure if we are going to build back there or not. If bringing
> in some dirt and planting seed is the best option, then I can do that
> though; but I didn't want the weeds/brush/blackberries to interfere with the
> new growth.
>
> First thought, not a gardener by any means, is to now clean up the grass
> clippings from the brush mower work that I did today so it is somewhat
> clean. Then get a rototiller, or bobcat with attachment, to till the soil.
> Then have a bobcat move the dirt around to make it a bit more level. Bring
> in dirt if necessary, but it wouldn't be much dirt to bring in to make it
> more level and easier to maintain in the future.
>
> But with my above idea, I have to wonder if I am only postponing the obvious
> in that as soon as the freshly tilled land gets sun and water; those little
> seedlings of grass/blackberries/brush/weeds/etc... will just grow again. I
> want the grass, but not the other stuff. :-)
>
> I am not sure what I should be doing with that area, but I know I don't want
> to use a brush mower every time it needs mowing. I would rather go buy a
> riding mower once I have something easier to cut and easier to drive on.
>
> Can anyone offer suggestions on a direction I should go to maybe make this
> area manageable?
>

For just 1/4 acre, get a high-wheel push mower. You've already cut it
all down once with a brush hog, it will be easier now and the grass will
take over if you keep it mowed. Get some dirt to fill the ruts and
holes and sprinkle on some grass seed if you want. If the weeds and
blackberries keep coming back, get a sprayer and some 2,4-d weed killer
(and be careful with it.)

Bob

[Tim Fierro]

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> > Tim Fierro wrote:
> > I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to
rent
> > a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass,
some
> > blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It
basically
> > looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it
since
> > moving here.
>
> For just 1/4 acre, get a high-wheel push mower. You've already cut it
> all down once with a brush hog, it will be easier now and the grass will
> take over if you keep it mowed. Get some dirt to fill the ruts and
> holes and sprinkle on some grass seed if you want. If the weeds and
> blackberries keep coming back, get a sprayer and some 2,4-d weed killer
> (and be careful with it.)

Bob,

Thank you for the reply and the advice. Still considering a riding mower
though as there is another 1/4 acre out front that does have grass. Dirt
and seed, as well as massaging the ground to be a little bit level is easy;
so will end up doing that.

But I have to wonder about the grass clippings that are now on the area, and
the blackberry area. Should I take off the clippings and get back to bare
grass underneath these clippings, or allow those clippings to disintegrate
onto the existing areas? For the blackberry area, also where one of the
bigger holes area; would it be prudent to put down some form of vegetation
(blackberry) killer in that area, then add dirt to fill the hole? After
hole is filled, will grass seed grow with the veggie killer 12" underneath
it while still helping to kill the blackberries underneath?



--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[zxcvbob]

Tim Fierro wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>
>>> Tim Fierro wrote: I just moved and the back of my property is
>>> about 1/4 acre and I had to
>
> rent
>
>>> a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of
>>> grass,
>
> some
>
>>> blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas.
>>> It
>
> basically
>
>>> looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow
>>> it
>
> since
>
>>> moving here.
>>
>> For just 1/4 acre, get a high-wheel push mower. You've already cut
>> it all down once with a brush hog, it will be easier now and the
>> grass will take over if you keep it mowed. Get some dirt to fill
>> the ruts and holes and sprinkle on some grass seed if you want. If
>> the weeds and blackberries keep coming back, get a sprayer and some
>> 2,4-d weed killer (and be careful with it.)
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Thank you for the reply and the advice. Still considering a riding
> mower though as there is another 1/4 acre out front that does have
> grass. Dirt and seed, as well as massaging the ground to be a little
> bit level is easy; so will end up doing that.
>
> But I have to wonder about the grass clippings that are now on the
> area, and the blackberry area. Should I take off the clippings and
> get back to bare grass underneath these clippings, or allow those
> clippings to disintegrate onto the existing areas?

How much clippings are we talking about? Maybe let them dry out, then
mow again to disintegrate them? You don't want to shade out the grass,
but in general leaving the clippings is a good thing.


> For the blackberry area, also where one of the bigger holes area;
> would it be prudent to put down some form of vegetation (blackberry)
> killer in that area, then add dirt to fill the hole? After hole is
> filled, will grass seed grow with the veggie killer 12" underneath it
> while still helping to kill the blackberries underneath?
>

That's why I said 2,4-d. It doesn't kill grass. Twelve inches? Just
bury it and spray it *if* if comes back and survives being mowed again.

Bob

[Tim Fierro]

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> How much clippings are we talking about? Maybe let them
> dry out, then mow again to disintegrate them? You don't
> want to shade out the grass, but in general leaving the
> clippings is a good thing.

Grass, field, was about 2' tall when I cut. The brush mower I used just cut
the grass and bushes, but the clippings just drop and are not really
disintegrated. So there is this covering now of the area of the clippings.



--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[Sue]

Tim I agree wholeheartedly with what Bob has advised......

we have 2 acres, half of which was black-berry, sumac, brush, weeds ( a
mess)

when we arrived we had it bush-hogged once in fall and again in spring.
Since then we have mowed with riding mower..... its not a golf course by any
means but its mowable and bare-foot friendly.

Fill the holes and seed over in cool season, not summer.

Sue


"Tim Fierro" > wrote in message
news:lF_vc.39436$pt3.30137@attbi_s03...
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> > How much clippings are we talking about? Maybe let them
> > dry out, then mow again to disintegrate them? You don't
> > want to shade out the grass, but in general leaving the
> > clippings is a good thing.
>
> Grass, field, was about 2' tall when I cut. The brush mower I used just
cut
> the grass and bushes, but the clippings just drop and are not really
> disintegrated. So there is this covering now of the area of the
clippings.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Tim Fierro *
> Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
> Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
> Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
> Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044
>
>

[Grandpa]

Since you have around ½ acre or more to mow etc then definately get a
riding mower. They make all manner of attachemnts that you might find
useful too for leveling, mulching, chipping etc. Growing up near
Seattle, we had almost an acre and the majority was grass and/or weeds.
It took me 3½ hours and 1½ tanks of gas on our mower every week to cut
it. Get the riding mower................

Blackberries, oh how I wish I had a big patch here in NM<sigh>, yum!

Grandpa

Tim Fierro wrote:
<snipped>
>
> Thank you for the reply and the advice. Still considering a riding mower
> though as there is another 1/4 acre out front that does have grass. Dirt
> and seed, as well as massaging the ground to be a little bit level is easy;
> so will end up doing that.

[David Hill]

Why not rake up the grass etc that you have cut, pile it on the blackberry
and burn it.
Then fill in the ruts and pot holes with soil, and get a wild flower mixture
of seed and sow this over the area.
Turn this patch into a wild flower meadow, then just cut it once a year
after your flowers have set and dropped their seed.
This area will attract insects, butterflies and birds and will be a lot more
interesting than a patch of short grass, and a lot less work.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Tim Fierro]

"David Hill" >
> Why not rake up the grass etc that you have cut, pile it
> on the blackberry and burn it.

For one, I can only have a fire 3' wide and the flame can't get bigger than
2'. This according to the local fire department, so I haven't really looked
at burning since my last outing with this issue. We plan to go to the store
on Saturday and look for that 2,4,D to kill the blackberries.


> Then fill in the ruts and pot holes with soil, and get a wild
> flower mixture of seed and sow this over the area.
> Turn this patch into a wild flower meadow, then just
> cut it once a year after your flowers have set and
> dropped their seed. This area will attract insects, butterflies
> and birds and will be a lot more interesting than a patch of
> short grass, and a lot less work.

David, that is an interesting idea. As I mentioned in previous post, we
have not made plans for that area of land yet. If we build on it later, I
would hate to have had to spend a lot on grass planting and getting it all
manicured; then tear it up to put a shop/garage there. :-) On the other
hand, if I did not want to build in that area, the work put into getting a
nice grassy back would be well worth it. Catch-22 until we decide what to
do there.

But the original concept remains, ease of maintenance being a priority. I
will take your advice and look into this more as an option. I did not know
that one could plant a flower/seed that would only need a cut once a year.

I appreciate everyone's contribution to this thread in helping us determine
how best to deal with the situation.



--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[David Hill]

When you fill the ruts and hollows with soil would be a good time to add
wild flower seed.
I think you'll find this link of interest.
http://www.lincstrust.org.uk/factsheets/meadow/convert.php

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Vox Humana]

"David Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Turn this patch into a wild flower meadow, then just cut it once a year
> after your flowers have set and dropped their seed.

Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone successfully turn an
area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a year or two you have a
weed infested area that is dominated by one or two species. The man-made
meadows that I have seen in botanical gardens seem to require a periodic
burn - something that most people can't or won't do. Without the burn, the
meadow is just a stop on the way to reforestation. Weed trees, brush,
pokeweed, etc. all take their turn in the succession back to forest.

[zxcvbob]

Vox Humana wrote:

> "David Hill" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Turn this patch into a wild flower meadow, then just cut it once a year
>>after your flowers have set and dropped their seed.
>
>
> Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone successfully turn an
> area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a year or two you have a
> weed infested area that is dominated by one or two species. The man-made
> meadows that I have seen in botanical gardens seem to require a periodic
> burn - something that most people can't or won't do. Without the burn, the
> meadow is just a stop on the way to reforestation. Weed trees, brush,
> pokeweed, etc. all take their turn in the succession back to forest.
>
>

My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.

Bob

[Vox Humana]

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Vox Humana wrote:
>
> > "David Hill" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Turn this patch into a wild flower meadow, then just cut it once a year
> >>after your flowers have set and dropped their seed.
> >
> >
> > Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone successfully turn an
> > area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a year or two you have
a
> > weed infested area that is dominated by one or two species. The
man-made
> > meadows that I have seen in botanical gardens seem to require a periodic
> > burn - something that most people can't or won't do. Without the burn,
the
> > meadow is just a stop on the way to reforestation. Weed trees, brush,
> > pokeweed, etc. all take their turn in the succession back to forest.
> >
> >
>
> My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
> as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
> been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>

That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
saplings will appear.

[Tom Randy]

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:29:49 +0000, Vox Humana wrote:


>> My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
>> as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
>> been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>>
>
> That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
> most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
> route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
> start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
> with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
> weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
> saplings will appear.


Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget about it.
Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.

I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

TOm

[Joe]

On 06/05/2004 11:38 AM, Tom Randy said:
> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:29:49 +0000, Vox Humana wrote:
>
>
>
>>>My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
>>>as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
>>>been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>>>
>>
>>That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
>>most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
>>route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
>>start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
>>with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
>>weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
>>saplings will appear.
>
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.
>

I'm currently trying the meadow thing. I mow regularly just around
the house. The rest I let grow, and cut it once every fall. I've
put in some native perennial wildflowers just to see how they do.
But I haven't spent a lot on that - for the most part, I just left
what was already here go wild, and I'm always pleasantly surprised
by that new wildflowers turn up on their own. The once per year
fall cutting is a pain, but it seems to be enough to keep the
brambles, brush and trees from moving back in. And it does save me
from a lot of mowing in the summer. I'm not expecting it to ever
turn into a picture perfect wildflower meadow, but it's not a weedy
mess either, so I would recommend this route, as long as you have
realistic expectations about it.


--
Joe
http://www.joekaz.net/
http://www.cafeshops.com/joekaz

[Kay Lancaster]

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:06:03 GMT, Vox Humana > wrote:
> area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a year or two you have a
> weed infested area that is dominated by one or two species. The man-made
> meadows that I have seen in botanical gardens seem to require a periodic
> burn - something that most people can't or won't do. Without the burn, the
> meadow is just a stop on the way to reforestation. Weed trees, brush,

Correctly timed mowing will do the same. There's a rhythm to prairie
replanting, for instance. Yes, you've got lots of weeds the first few
years, but they get crowded out by perennials later.
http://www-ed.fnal.gov/help/prairie/Prairie_Res/
http://users.cis.net/hamfam/prairie/html/graze_fire_mow.html
http://www.for-wild.org/

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Wishy13764]

Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Wishy13764]

Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Wishy13764]

Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

[Tim Fierro]

"Wishy13764" > wrote
> Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

Actually, no we didn't. :-)

The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
areas.

We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
to the greenhouse.

This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
par. It is almost there, so we are happy.

The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
property.

I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
what we got. :-)




--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[zxcvbob]

Tim Fierro wrote:

> "Wishy13764" > wrote
>
>>Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?
>
>
> Actually, no we didn't. :-)
>
> The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
> we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
> the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
> run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
> as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
> areas.
>
> We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
> down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
> managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
> months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
> looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
> mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
> determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
> side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
> to the greenhouse.
>
> This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
> a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
> amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
> and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
> par. It is almost there, so we are happy.
>
> The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
> building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
> putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
> property.
>
> I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
> later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
> what we got. :-)


Just don't go overboard with the brush killer (probably 2,4-d or
triclopyr.) Mowing will *almost* take care of the brush and weeds
without using any chemicals. After you've mowed a couple of times, spot
treat the remaining stubborn weeds with herbicides. It's cheaper that
way, and less likely to contaminate the ground water and streams with
the runoff.

Best regards,
Bob <-- has an amazing stockpile of pesticides (including chlordane,
"Black Leaf 40", and old-stock kelthane with DDT in it), and seldom uses
any of it.

[Janice]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 03:29:01 GMT, "Tim Fierro" >
wrote:

>I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to rent
>a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass, some
>blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It basically
>looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it since
>moving here.

>If it was level, or somewhat less bumpy, and was grass and not a bunch of
>brush, I could use my mower to do the job; but I don't have that ideal lawn
>and have to work with what I got. :-)
>
>I want to get away from having to rent a brush mower to mow a field and want
>to find an alternative.
>
>What I would like is:
>
>1) Eliminate the small patch of blackberry bushes so they do not get
>overgrown again and cause problems later.

Goats.. they'll graze and browse the area. Saw the bit on the news
again about goat herds being used to control weeds and such with them.
The cities were paying a woman to graze her goats on areas that had
problems.

I don't know if you are in an area where you can do that. Don't know
if you would want any to keep any yourself, but if not, might be
someone you could get to put theirs on your land to kill off the
blackberries and keep the weeds down, and fertilize it while they do
their job of keeping the weeds down and the blackberries down.

If the goats don't graze enough, mix in some sheep.. grazers.. with
goats.. which prefer to browse.. eat bushes.. but do graze a bit. If
you're not in a big hurry, they will graze the area down quite well ..
and you can keep them in smaller areas with an electric fence so they
will work intensively on some plants you want dead. They'll keep the
grass down without you having to cut it, while you study a bit more on
how the land lies, what you can do to work with the land as it is, or
how best to move the existing dirt around to level/fill. But watch
runoff if you haven't been there in wet weather, you could make some
big mistakes if you get flash floods.. some of those areas may be
there because of periodic flash floods.

Anyway.. just a thought! ;-)

Janice
>
>2) Level the land a bit so there is no crevices and holes on an otherwise
>level piece of land.
>
>3) Be able to use a lawnmower, or riding lawnmower, to maintain the back 1/4
>acre.
>
>4) Do not want to go overboard with putting in fertilizer, sod, new grass;
>as we are not sure if we are going to build back there or not. If bringing
>in some dirt and planting seed is the best option, then I can do that
>though; but I didn't want the weeds/brush/blackberries to interfere with the
>new growth.
>
>First thought, not a gardener by any means, is to now clean up the grass
>clippings from the brush mower work that I did today so it is somewhat
>clean. Then get a rototiller, or bobcat with attachment, to till the soil.
>Then have a bobcat move the dirt around to make it a bit more level. Bring
>in dirt if necessary, but it wouldn't be much dirt to bring in to make it
>more level and easier to maintain in the future.
>
>But with my above idea, I have to wonder if I am only postponing the obvious
>in that as soon as the freshly tilled land gets sun and water; those little
>seedlings of grass/blackberries/brush/weeds/etc... will just grow again. I
>want the grass, but not the other stuff. :-)
>
>I am not sure what I should be doing with that area, but I know I don't want
>to use a brush mower every time it needs mowing. I would rather go buy a
>riding mower once I have something easier to cut and easier to drive on.
>
>Can anyone offer suggestions on a direction I should go to maybe make this
>area manageable?

[Janice]

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:38:37 GMT, Tom Randy >
wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:29:49 +0000, Vox Humana wrote:
>
>
>>> My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
>>> as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
>>> been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>>>
>>
>> That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
>> most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
>> route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
>> start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
>> with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
>> weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
>> saplings will appear.
>
>
>Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget about it.
>Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
>I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.
>
>TOm

Friend just weeded the blueberry patch, it was totally infested with
elm tree seedlings. Those things drop seeds twice a year too!!

Janice

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Wishy13764]

Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

[Tim Fierro]

"Wishy13764" > wrote
> Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

Actually, no we didn't. :-)

The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
areas.

We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
to the greenhouse.

This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
par. It is almost there, so we are happy.

The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
property.

I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
what we got. :-)




--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[zxcvbob]

Tim Fierro wrote:

> "Wishy13764" > wrote
>
>>Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?
>
>
> Actually, no we didn't. :-)
>
> The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
> we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
> the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
> run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
> as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
> areas.
>
> We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
> down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
> managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
> months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
> looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
> mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
> determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
> side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
> to the greenhouse.
>
> This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
> a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
> amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
> and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
> par. It is almost there, so we are happy.
>
> The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
> building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
> putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
> property.
>
> I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
> later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
> what we got. :-)


Just don't go overboard with the brush killer (probably 2,4-d or
triclopyr.) Mowing will *almost* take care of the brush and weeds
without using any chemicals. After you've mowed a couple of times, spot
treat the remaining stubborn weeds with herbicides. It's cheaper that
way, and less likely to contaminate the ground water and streams with
the runoff.

Best regards,
Bob <-- has an amazing stockpile of pesticides (including chlordane,
"Black Leaf 40", and old-stock kelthane with DDT in it), and seldom uses
any of it.

[Janice]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 03:29:01 GMT, "Tim Fierro" >
wrote:

>I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to rent
>a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass, some
>blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It basically
>looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it since
>moving here.

>If it was level, or somewhat less bumpy, and was grass and not a bunch of
>brush, I could use my mower to do the job; but I don't have that ideal lawn
>and have to work with what I got. :-)
>
>I want to get away from having to rent a brush mower to mow a field and want
>to find an alternative.
>
>What I would like is:
>
>1) Eliminate the small patch of blackberry bushes so they do not get
>overgrown again and cause problems later.

Goats.. they'll graze and browse the area. Saw the bit on the news
again about goat herds being used to control weeds and such with them.
The cities were paying a woman to graze her goats on areas that had
problems.

I don't know if you are in an area where you can do that. Don't know
if you would want any to keep any yourself, but if not, might be
someone you could get to put theirs on your land to kill off the
blackberries and keep the weeds down, and fertilize it while they do
their job of keeping the weeds down and the blackberries down.

If the goats don't graze enough, mix in some sheep.. grazers.. with
goats.. which prefer to browse.. eat bushes.. but do graze a bit. If
you're not in a big hurry, they will graze the area down quite well ..
and you can keep them in smaller areas with an electric fence so they
will work intensively on some plants you want dead. They'll keep the
grass down without you having to cut it, while you study a bit more on
how the land lies, what you can do to work with the land as it is, or
how best to move the existing dirt around to level/fill. But watch
runoff if you haven't been there in wet weather, you could make some
big mistakes if you get flash floods.. some of those areas may be
there because of periodic flash floods.

Anyway.. just a thought! ;-)

Janice
>
>2) Level the land a bit so there is no crevices and holes on an otherwise
>level piece of land.
>
>3) Be able to use a lawnmower, or riding lawnmower, to maintain the back 1/4
>acre.
>
>4) Do not want to go overboard with putting in fertilizer, sod, new grass;
>as we are not sure if we are going to build back there or not. If bringing
>in some dirt and planting seed is the best option, then I can do that
>though; but I didn't want the weeds/brush/blackberries to interfere with the
>new growth.
>
>First thought, not a gardener by any means, is to now clean up the grass
>clippings from the brush mower work that I did today so it is somewhat
>clean. Then get a rototiller, or bobcat with attachment, to till the soil.
>Then have a bobcat move the dirt around to make it a bit more level. Bring
>in dirt if necessary, but it wouldn't be much dirt to bring in to make it
>more level and easier to maintain in the future.
>
>But with my above idea, I have to wonder if I am only postponing the obvious
>in that as soon as the freshly tilled land gets sun and water; those little
>seedlings of grass/blackberries/brush/weeds/etc... will just grow again. I
>want the grass, but not the other stuff. :-)
>
>I am not sure what I should be doing with that area, but I know I don't want
>to use a brush mower every time it needs mowing. I would rather go buy a
>riding mower once I have something easier to cut and easier to drive on.
>
>Can anyone offer suggestions on a direction I should go to maybe make this
>area manageable?

[Janice]

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:38:37 GMT, Tom Randy >
wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:29:49 +0000, Vox Humana wrote:
>
>
>>> My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
>>> as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
>>> been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>>>
>>
>> That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
>> most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
>> route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
>> start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
>> with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
>> weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
>> saplings will appear.
>
>
>Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget about it.
>Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
>I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.
>
>TOm

Friend just weeded the blueberry patch, it was totally infested with
elm tree seedlings. Those things drop seeds twice a year too!!

Janice

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Wishy13764]

Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

[Tim Fierro]

"Wishy13764" > wrote
> Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

Actually, no we didn't. :-)

The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
areas.

We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
to the greenhouse.

This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
par. It is almost there, so we are happy.

The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
property.

I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
what we got. :-)




--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[zxcvbob]

Tim Fierro wrote:

> "Wishy13764" > wrote
>
>>Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?
>
>
> Actually, no we didn't. :-)
>
> The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
> we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
> the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
> run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
> as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
> areas.
>
> We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
> down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
> managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
> months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
> looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
> mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
> determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
> side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
> to the greenhouse.
>
> This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
> a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
> amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
> and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
> par. It is almost there, so we are happy.
>
> The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
> building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
> putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
> property.
>
> I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
> later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
> what we got. :-)


Just don't go overboard with the brush killer (probably 2,4-d or
triclopyr.) Mowing will *almost* take care of the brush and weeds
without using any chemicals. After you've mowed a couple of times, spot
treat the remaining stubborn weeds with herbicides. It's cheaper that
way, and less likely to contaminate the ground water and streams with
the runoff.

Best regards,
Bob <-- has an amazing stockpile of pesticides (including chlordane,
"Black Leaf 40", and old-stock kelthane with DDT in it), and seldom uses
any of it.

[Janice]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 03:29:01 GMT, "Tim Fierro" >
wrote:

>I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to rent
>a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass, some
>blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It basically
>looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it since
>moving here.

>If it was level, or somewhat less bumpy, and was grass and not a bunch of
>brush, I could use my mower to do the job; but I don't have that ideal lawn
>and have to work with what I got. :-)
>
>I want to get away from having to rent a brush mower to mow a field and want
>to find an alternative.
>
>What I would like is:
>
>1) Eliminate the small patch of blackberry bushes so they do not get
>overgrown again and cause problems later.

Goats.. they'll graze and browse the area. Saw the bit on the news
again about goat herds being used to control weeds and such with them.
The cities were paying a woman to graze her goats on areas that had
problems.

I don't know if you are in an area where you can do that. Don't know
if you would want any to keep any yourself, but if not, might be
someone you could get to put theirs on your land to kill off the
blackberries and keep the weeds down, and fertilize it while they do
their job of keeping the weeds down and the blackberries down.

If the goats don't graze enough, mix in some sheep.. grazers.. with
goats.. which prefer to browse.. eat bushes.. but do graze a bit. If
you're not in a big hurry, they will graze the area down quite well ..
and you can keep them in smaller areas with an electric fence so they
will work intensively on some plants you want dead. They'll keep the
grass down without you having to cut it, while you study a bit more on
how the land lies, what you can do to work with the land as it is, or
how best to move the existing dirt around to level/fill. But watch
runoff if you haven't been there in wet weather, you could make some
big mistakes if you get flash floods.. some of those areas may be
there because of periodic flash floods.

Anyway.. just a thought! ;-)

Janice
>
>2) Level the land a bit so there is no crevices and holes on an otherwise
>level piece of land.
>
>3) Be able to use a lawnmower, or riding lawnmower, to maintain the back 1/4
>acre.
>
>4) Do not want to go overboard with putting in fertilizer, sod, new grass;
>as we are not sure if we are going to build back there or not. If bringing
>in some dirt and planting seed is the best option, then I can do that
>though; but I didn't want the weeds/brush/blackberries to interfere with the
>new growth.
>
>First thought, not a gardener by any means, is to now clean up the grass
>clippings from the brush mower work that I did today so it is somewhat
>clean. Then get a rototiller, or bobcat with attachment, to till the soil.
>Then have a bobcat move the dirt around to make it a bit more level. Bring
>in dirt if necessary, but it wouldn't be much dirt to bring in to make it
>more level and easier to maintain in the future.
>
>But with my above idea, I have to wonder if I am only postponing the obvious
>in that as soon as the freshly tilled land gets sun and water; those little
>seedlings of grass/blackberries/brush/weeds/etc... will just grow again. I
>want the grass, but not the other stuff. :-)
>
>I am not sure what I should be doing with that area, but I know I don't want
>to use a brush mower every time it needs mowing. I would rather go buy a
>riding mower once I have something easier to cut and easier to drive on.
>
>Can anyone offer suggestions on a direction I should go to maybe make this
>area manageable?

[Janice]

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:38:37 GMT, Tom Randy >
wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:29:49 +0000, Vox Humana wrote:
>
>
>>> My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
>>> as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
>>> been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>>>
>>
>> That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
>> most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
>> route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
>> start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
>> with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
>> weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
>> saplings will appear.
>
>
>Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget about it.
>Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
>I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.
>
>TOm

Friend just weeded the blueberry patch, it was totally infested with
elm tree seedlings. Those things drop seeds twice a year too!!

Janice

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Wishy13764]

Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

[Tim Fierro]

"Wishy13764" > wrote
> Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

Actually, no we didn't. :-)

The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
areas.

We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
to the greenhouse.

This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
par. It is almost there, so we are happy.

The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
property.

I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
what we got. :-)




--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[zxcvbob]

Tim Fierro wrote:

> "Wishy13764" > wrote
>
>>Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?
>
>
> Actually, no we didn't. :-)
>
> The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
> we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
> the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
> run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
> as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
> areas.
>
> We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
> down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
> managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
> months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
> looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
> mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
> determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
> side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
> to the greenhouse.
>
> This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
> a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
> amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
> and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
> par. It is almost there, so we are happy.
>
> The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
> building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
> putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
> property.
>
> I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
> later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
> what we got. :-)


Just don't go overboard with the brush killer (probably 2,4-d or
triclopyr.) Mowing will *almost* take care of the brush and weeds
without using any chemicals. After you've mowed a couple of times, spot
treat the remaining stubborn weeds with herbicides. It's cheaper that
way, and less likely to contaminate the ground water and streams with
the runoff.

Best regards,
Bob <-- has an amazing stockpile of pesticides (including chlordane,
"Black Leaf 40", and old-stock kelthane with DDT in it), and seldom uses
any of it.

[Janice]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 03:29:01 GMT, "Tim Fierro" >
wrote:

>I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to rent
>a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass, some
>blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It basically
>looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it since
>moving here.

>If it was level, or somewhat less bumpy, and was grass and not a bunch of
>brush, I could use my mower to do the job; but I don't have that ideal lawn
>and have to work with what I got. :-)
>
>I want to get away from having to rent a brush mower to mow a field and want
>to find an alternative.
>
>What I would like is:
>
>1) Eliminate the small patch of blackberry bushes so they do not get
>overgrown again and cause problems later.

Goats.. they'll graze and browse the area. Saw the bit on the news
again about goat herds being used to control weeds and such with them.
The cities were paying a woman to graze her goats on areas that had
problems.

I don't know if you are in an area where you can do that. Don't know
if you would want any to keep any yourself, but if not, might be
someone you could get to put theirs on your land to kill off the
blackberries and keep the weeds down, and fertilize it while they do
their job of keeping the weeds down and the blackberries down.

If the goats don't graze enough, mix in some sheep.. grazers.. with
goats.. which prefer to browse.. eat bushes.. but do graze a bit. If
you're not in a big hurry, they will graze the area down quite well ..
and you can keep them in smaller areas with an electric fence so they
will work intensively on some plants you want dead. They'll keep the
grass down without you having to cut it, while you study a bit more on
how the land lies, what you can do to work with the land as it is, or
how best to move the existing dirt around to level/fill. But watch
runoff if you haven't been there in wet weather, you could make some
big mistakes if you get flash floods.. some of those areas may be
there because of periodic flash floods.

Anyway.. just a thought! ;-)

Janice
>
>2) Level the land a bit so there is no crevices and holes on an otherwise
>level piece of land.
>
>3) Be able to use a lawnmower, or riding lawnmower, to maintain the back 1/4
>acre.
>
>4) Do not want to go overboard with putting in fertilizer, sod, new grass;
>as we are not sure if we are going to build back there or not. If bringing
>in some dirt and planting seed is the best option, then I can do that
>though; but I didn't want the weeds/brush/blackberries to interfere with the
>new growth.
>
>First thought, not a gardener by any means, is to now clean up the grass
>clippings from the brush mower work that I did today so it is somewhat
>clean. Then get a rototiller, or bobcat with attachment, to till the soil.
>Then have a bobcat move the dirt around to make it a bit more level. Bring
>in dirt if necessary, but it wouldn't be much dirt to bring in to make it
>more level and easier to maintain in the future.
>
>But with my above idea, I have to wonder if I am only postponing the obvious
>in that as soon as the freshly tilled land gets sun and water; those little
>seedlings of grass/blackberries/brush/weeds/etc... will just grow again. I
>want the grass, but not the other stuff. :-)
>
>I am not sure what I should be doing with that area, but I know I don't want
>to use a brush mower every time it needs mowing. I would rather go buy a
>riding mower once I have something easier to cut and easier to drive on.
>
>Can anyone offer suggestions on a direction I should go to maybe make this
>area manageable?

[Janice]

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:38:37 GMT, Tom Randy >
wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:29:49 +0000, Vox Humana wrote:
>
>
>>> My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
>>> as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
>>> been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>>>
>>
>> That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
>> most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
>> route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
>> start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
>> with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
>> weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
>> saplings will appear.
>
>
>Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget about it.
>Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
>I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.
>
>TOm

Friend just weeded the blueberry patch, it was totally infested with
elm tree seedlings. Those things drop seeds twice a year too!!

Janice

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Wishy13764]

Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

[Tim Fierro]

"Wishy13764" > wrote
> Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

Actually, no we didn't. :-)

The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
areas.

We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
to the greenhouse.

This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
par. It is almost there, so we are happy.

The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
property.

I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
what we got. :-)




--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[zxcvbob]

Tim Fierro wrote:

> "Wishy13764" > wrote
>
>>Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?
>
>
> Actually, no we didn't. :-)
>
> The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
> we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
> the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
> run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
> as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
> areas.
>
> We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
> down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
> managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
> months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
> looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
> mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
> determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
> side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
> to the greenhouse.
>
> This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
> a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
> amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
> and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
> par. It is almost there, so we are happy.
>
> The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
> building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
> putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
> property.
>
> I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
> later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
> what we got. :-)


Just don't go overboard with the brush killer (probably 2,4-d or
triclopyr.) Mowing will *almost* take care of the brush and weeds
without using any chemicals. After you've mowed a couple of times, spot
treat the remaining stubborn weeds with herbicides. It's cheaper that
way, and less likely to contaminate the ground water and streams with
the runoff.

Best regards,
Bob <-- has an amazing stockpile of pesticides (including chlordane,
"Black Leaf 40", and old-stock kelthane with DDT in it), and seldom uses
any of it.

[Janice]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 03:29:01 GMT, "Tim Fierro" >
wrote:

>I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to rent
>a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass, some
>blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It basically
>looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it since
>moving here.

>If it was level, or somewhat less bumpy, and was grass and not a bunch of
>brush, I could use my mower to do the job; but I don't have that ideal lawn
>and have to work with what I got. :-)
>
>I want to get away from having to rent a brush mower to mow a field and want
>to find an alternative.
>
>What I would like is:
>
>1) Eliminate the small patch of blackberry bushes so they do not get
>overgrown again and cause problems later.

Goats.. they'll graze and browse the area. Saw the bit on the news
again about goat herds being used to control weeds and such with them.
The cities were paying a woman to graze her goats on areas that had
problems.

I don't know if you are in an area where you can do that. Don't know
if you would want any to keep any yourself, but if not, might be
someone you could get to put theirs on your land to kill off the
blackberries and keep the weeds down, and fertilize it while they do
their job of keeping the weeds down and the blackberries down.

If the goats don't graze enough, mix in some sheep.. grazers.. with
goats.. which prefer to browse.. eat bushes.. but do graze a bit. If
you're not in a big hurry, they will graze the area down quite well ..
and you can keep them in smaller areas with an electric fence so they
will work intensively on some plants you want dead. They'll keep the
grass down without you having to cut it, while you study a bit more on
how the land lies, what you can do to work with the land as it is, or
how best to move the existing dirt around to level/fill. But watch
runoff if you haven't been there in wet weather, you could make some
big mistakes if you get flash floods.. some of those areas may be
there because of periodic flash floods.

Anyway.. just a thought! ;-)

Janice
>
>2) Level the land a bit so there is no crevices and holes on an otherwise
>level piece of land.
>
>3) Be able to use a lawnmower, or riding lawnmower, to maintain the back 1/4
>acre.
>
>4) Do not want to go overboard with putting in fertilizer, sod, new grass;
>as we are not sure if we are going to build back there or not. If bringing
>in some dirt and planting seed is the best option, then I can do that
>though; but I didn't want the weeds/brush/blackberries to interfere with the
>new growth.
>
>First thought, not a gardener by any means, is to now clean up the grass
>clippings from the brush mower work that I did today so it is somewhat
>clean. Then get a rototiller, or bobcat with attachment, to till the soil.
>Then have a bobcat move the dirt around to make it a bit more level. Bring
>in dirt if necessary, but it wouldn't be much dirt to bring in to make it
>more level and easier to maintain in the future.
>
>But with my above idea, I have to wonder if I am only postponing the obvious
>in that as soon as the freshly tilled land gets sun and water; those little
>seedlings of grass/blackberries/brush/weeds/etc... will just grow again. I
>want the grass, but not the other stuff. :-)
>
>I am not sure what I should be doing with that area, but I know I don't want
>to use a brush mower every time it needs mowing. I would rather go buy a
>riding mower once I have something easier to cut and easier to drive on.
>
>Can anyone offer suggestions on a direction I should go to maybe make this
>area manageable?

[Janice]

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:38:37 GMT, Tom Randy >
wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:29:49 +0000, Vox Humana wrote:
>
>
>>> My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
>>> as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
>>> been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>>>
>>
>> That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
>> most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
>> route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
>> start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
>> with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
>> weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
>> saplings will appear.
>
>
>Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget about it.
>Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
>I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.
>
>TOm

Friend just weeded the blueberry patch, it was totally infested with
elm tree seedlings. Those things drop seeds twice a year too!!

Janice

[nswong]

Hi,

"Tom Randy" > wrote in message
.. .

> > That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush,
etc, will
> > most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the
wildflower
> > route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial
bed. You
> > start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you
end up
> > with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants.
Then nasty
> > weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple
and locust
> > saplings will appear.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget
about it.
> Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
> I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.

I will suggested planting groundcover instead, once established, it
never needs mowing.

I use Perennial Peanut to substitute lawn.

Carpet Daisy(Wedelia trilobata) are invasive, but good for the border
of land to compete with those aggrasive weeds.

Mexican heather(Cuphea hyssopifolia) are good for marking the border.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

[David Hill]

"............ Have you actually done this? I haven't seen anyone
successfully turn an area into a wild flower meadow. It seems that in a
year or two you have a weed infested area that is dominated by one or two
species .........."
I am in the process of turning a plot over to this, many in the UK are now
well over 5 yrs old, and in Holland they have been doing this for around 20
years, and there is No way we would ever burn, this is the point of mowing
when the seed is set and then leaving it on the ground to give it time to
drop and thus re seed the area.
It is also why you add seeds of other wild flowers suitable for your area.
Mind you, if you regard all wild flowers as Weeds then this is defiantly
not the answer for you.
I was under the impression that you would be deciding in a year or two if
you were going to build on the plot so were not looking for a long term
answer and didn't want to spend much money on it.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

[Wishy13764]

Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

[Tim Fierro]

"Wishy13764" > wrote
> Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?

Actually, no we didn't. :-)

The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
areas.

We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
to the greenhouse.

This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
par. It is almost there, so we are happy.

The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
property.

I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
what we got. :-)




--


Tim Fierro *
Licensed Real Estate Agent & Private Investor
Retail, Wholesale, or Fast Cash; There is always a solution!
Main: 360-537-0120 * Fax: 360-537-0121
Pierce County: 253-227-9877 * King County: 206-353-7044

[zxcvbob]

Tim Fierro wrote:

> "Wishy13764" > wrote
>
>>Did you not consider this BEFORE you moved in?
>
>
> Actually, no we didn't. :-)
>
> The front 1/4 acre, ok, we let that go for the past couple of months while
> we finished up other areas of the property and finished some things inside
> the house and in the shop and putting up a temporary fence for the dogs to
> run in. The back 1/4 though, we didn't realize that this would grow as fast
> as it did and that there were brush/weeds/berries that would overtake some
> areas.
>
> We realize it now of course after we had to use a brush mower to take it all
> down that this was not going to be a recurring thing for us. We only today
> managed to finally haul away all the trees and branches from the cutting 2
> months ago to align the perimeter. So we have the front under control and
> looking nice as when we purchased and can keep that up. We have the back
> mowed and determined what needs to be done to make it manageable while we
> determine what we want to do in that area. And we have now finished the
> side where the trees were to be able to cut that area and have easier access
> to the greenhouse.
>
> This purchase was spur of the moment. We have been looking for property for
> a few years, this came up, bought it the next morning. Price, location,
> amenities, and city services were all perfect; so when reviewing the house
> and the land, it came as secondary review in the work needed to get up to
> par. It is almost there, so we are happy.
>
> The reason we can't decide on the back 1/4 yet is we don't know if we are
> building a new house there, a garage there, or landscape it with grass while
> putting the house and new shop/garage in a different location on the
> property.
>
> I didn't want a field in my backyard, but when you turn around 2 months
> later when everything has settled and the weather got nice; that is exactly
> what we got. :-)


Just don't go overboard with the brush killer (probably 2,4-d or
triclopyr.) Mowing will *almost* take care of the brush and weeds
without using any chemicals. After you've mowed a couple of times, spot
treat the remaining stubborn weeds with herbicides. It's cheaper that
way, and less likely to contaminate the ground water and streams with
the runoff.

Best regards,
Bob <-- has an amazing stockpile of pesticides (including chlordane,
"Black Leaf 40", and old-stock kelthane with DDT in it), and seldom uses
any of it.

[Janice]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 03:29:01 GMT, "Tim Fierro" >
wrote:

>I just moved and the back of my property is about 1/4 acre and I had to rent
>a brush mower to mow it down. The grass was a combination of grass, some
>blackberry bushes, holes, crevices, and bare patches in areas. It basically
>looked like a field and this was the first time I was able to mow it since
>moving here.

>If it was level, or somewhat less bumpy, and was grass and not a bunch of
>brush, I could use my mower to do the job; but I don't have that ideal lawn
>and have to work with what I got. :-)
>
>I want to get away from having to rent a brush mower to mow a field and want
>to find an alternative.
>
>What I would like is:
>
>1) Eliminate the small patch of blackberry bushes so they do not get
>overgrown again and cause problems later.

Goats.. they'll graze and browse the area. Saw the bit on the news
again about goat herds being used to control weeds and such with them.
The cities were paying a woman to graze her goats on areas that had
problems.

I don't know if you are in an area where you can do that. Don't know
if you would want any to keep any yourself, but if not, might be
someone you could get to put theirs on your land to kill off the
blackberries and keep the weeds down, and fertilize it while they do
their job of keeping the weeds down and the blackberries down.

If the goats don't graze enough, mix in some sheep.. grazers.. with
goats.. which prefer to browse.. eat bushes.. but do graze a bit. If
you're not in a big hurry, they will graze the area down quite well ..
and you can keep them in smaller areas with an electric fence so they
will work intensively on some plants you want dead. They'll keep the
grass down without you having to cut it, while you study a bit more on
how the land lies, what you can do to work with the land as it is, or
how best to move the existing dirt around to level/fill. But watch
runoff if you haven't been there in wet weather, you could make some
big mistakes if you get flash floods.. some of those areas may be
there because of periodic flash floods.

Anyway.. just a thought! ;-)

Janice
>
>2) Level the land a bit so there is no crevices and holes on an otherwise
>level piece of land.
>
>3) Be able to use a lawnmower, or riding lawnmower, to maintain the back 1/4
>acre.
>
>4) Do not want to go overboard with putting in fertilizer, sod, new grass;
>as we are not sure if we are going to build back there or not. If bringing
>in some dirt and planting seed is the best option, then I can do that
>though; but I didn't want the weeds/brush/blackberries to interfere with the
>new growth.
>
>First thought, not a gardener by any means, is to now clean up the grass
>clippings from the brush mower work that I did today so it is somewhat
>clean. Then get a rototiller, or bobcat with attachment, to till the soil.
>Then have a bobcat move the dirt around to make it a bit more level. Bring
>in dirt if necessary, but it wouldn't be much dirt to bring in to make it
>more level and easier to maintain in the future.
>
>But with my above idea, I have to wonder if I am only postponing the obvious
>in that as soon as the freshly tilled land gets sun and water; those little
>seedlings of grass/blackberries/brush/weeds/etc... will just grow again. I
>want the grass, but not the other stuff. :-)
>
>I am not sure what I should be doing with that area, but I know I don't want
>to use a brush mower every time it needs mowing. I would rather go buy a
>riding mower once I have something easier to cut and easier to drive on.
>
>Can anyone offer suggestions on a direction I should go to maybe make this
>area manageable?

[Janice]

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:38:37 GMT, Tom Randy >
wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:29:49 +0000, Vox Humana wrote:
>
>
>>> My employer, [deep pockets] put in a meadow, and it looked nice as long
>>> as they burned it every 3 years. Now it looks like sh!t. It woulda
>>> been better if they just left it mowed fescue and bluegrass and weeds.
>>>
>>
>> That's exactly my point. The OP who now has weeds, berries, brush, etc, will
>> most likely have the same thing in a few years if he goes the wildflower
>> route. The same thing will happen with a well planned perennial bed. You
>> start with a nice mix of plants. If you don't manage the bed, you end up
>> with the entire thing choked with one or two aggressive plants. Then nasty
>> weeds like thistles will get established, and in my area, maple and locust
>> saplings will appear.
>
>
>Absolutely true. If I don't stay on top of my flower beds forget about it.
>Weeds,maple saplings go WILD.
>
>I agree, The wildflower route is not the way to go.
>
>TOm

Friend just weeded the blueberry patch, it was totally infested with
elm tree seedlings. Those things drop seeds twice a year too!!

Janice