Lawn Inversion

[Greg Miller]

If I use Roundup (will this endanger bordering hedges and shrubs?),
should I add new topsoil directly on the dead grass, or first till?


> I wouldn't leave it all winter without planting something, and that
> something may as well be grass. You risk erosion if you leave it bare and I
> can't think of any positive things that will come from a bare lawn. No
> matter what you do, you will end up with some weeds. I'm not sure you need
> to go down 8 inches, but its your lawn. I would kill off the grass with
> Roundup, correct the grade, cultivate the surface slightly, seed, cover, and
> keep moist. Fall is a good time in most areas, so you can start the prep in
> late summer. Next spring, be sure to apply some pre-emergent herbicide
> because there will be weed seeds that will germinate otherwise.

[Doug Kanter]

You have no plans to plant anything even remotely edible on our near the
treated area in the future, right?

"Greg Miller" > wrote in message
om...
> If I use Roundup (will this endanger bordering hedges and shrubs?),
> should I add new topsoil directly on the dead grass, or first till?
>
>
> > I wouldn't leave it all winter without planting something, and that
> > something may as well be grass. You risk erosion if you leave it bare
and I
> > can't think of any positive things that will come from a bare lawn. No
> > matter what you do, you will end up with some weeds. I'm not sure you
need
> > to go down 8 inches, but its your lawn. I would kill off the grass with
> > Roundup, correct the grade, cultivate the surface slightly, seed, cover,
and
> > keep moist. Fall is a good time in most areas, so you can start the
prep in
> > late summer. Next spring, be sure to apply some pre-emergent herbicide
> > because there will be weed seeds that will germinate otherwise.

[Vox Humana]

"Greg Miller" > wrote in message
om...
> If I use Roundup (will this endanger bordering hedges and shrubs?),
> should I add new topsoil directly on the dead grass, or first till?
>

Roundup has to be applied to growing, green parts of plants to kill them.
If you spray the leaves of the hedge, it will probably kill the leaves and
MIGHT kill the hedge. Therefore, you have to be careful not to spray on
windy days and you have to be careful. I would shield the hedge with some
cardboard if there is a question. I won't kill things by from soil contact.
Always read the directions before using garden chemicals I would till the
entire area and rake to remove large clumps and stones. Then I would add
soil and level. You can LIGHTLY roll the area and then seed. As someone
mentioned, you can rent a sod cutter to removed the existing lawn and that
will eliminate the need for chemicals.

[Vox Humana]

"Steve Wolfe" > wrote in message
...
> > I've got a lawn, about 50' x 70'. It's more than half weeds, despite
> > several years of half-hearted spraying and picking. The grade is
> > wrong; it slopes to the middle of the yard.
> >
> > So basically I want to start anew. My intended course of action is to
> > flip over the lawn (after the fall) by shovel to a depth of 8" (so
> > that no weeds return). Then bring in topsoil and grade. Leave over the
> > winter for further settling. In the spring, fix any holes caused by
> > settling and then seed.
>
> Wow. Turning over 3500 square feet with a shovel sounds like an awful
> lot of work just to make sure that weeds are gone. You could just as
easily
> use the chemical of your choice to kill everything, water for a week to
see
> if any seeds come up, then take care of that. Then add the topsoil,
> prepare, and plant.
>
> Don't get me wrong, if you want your yard tilled, by all means, till
it -
> but if it were me, I'd at least rent a tiller, I wouldn't do it with the
> shovel!

Agreed, except for the watering part. No matter what, there will be weed
seeds germinate.

[Kay Lancaster]

On 21 Jul 2004 08:38:31 -0700, Greg Miller > wrote:
> several years of half-hearted spraying and picking. The grade is
> wrong; it slopes to the middle of the yard.
>
> So basically I want to start anew. My intended course of action is to
> flip over the lawn (after the fall) by shovel to a depth of 8" (so
> that no weeds return). Then bring in topsoil and grade. Leave over the
> winter for further settling. In the spring, fix any holes caused by
> settling and then seed.

I think you'll be badly disappointed in the results. Depending on your
feeling about glyphosate vs. organic solutions, what I'd do is nuke the
current lawn, either with a Roundup clone or by solarizing. The solarization,
if done properly, will reduce the number of viable weed seeds in the soil,
while the Roundup or similar won't.
http://www.homestore.com/HomeGarden/Gardening/Plants/Weeds/SN
ST_Solar.asp?poe=homestore (mind the wrap) or http://tinyurl.com/5oyv3

Hire someone with the proper equipment to till and regrade this fall, then
reseed promptly. You don't want to leave the soil uncovered for the winter,
and fall is the best time to replant grass in most of North America. By late
spring, you should have a fairly thick lawn, ready for first mowing.

Some information on soil seed banks (which is what you're dealing with):
http://www.agron.iastate.edu/~weeds/Ag317-99/bioeco/lifec
ycle/seedbank.html#Seedbank%20Size%20and%20Quality (mind the wrap)
or http://tinyurl.com/3zfsw and:
http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/mgmt/qtr00-1/seedfate.htm and:
http://weedeco.msu.montana.edu/class/lres443/Lectures/Lecture60/lecture5.htm

[Greg Miller]

Hello all,

I've got a lawn, about 50' x 70'. It's more than half weeds, despite
several years of half-hearted spraying and picking. The grade is
wrong; it slopes to the middle of the yard.

So basically I want to start anew. My intended course of action is to
flip over the lawn (after the fall) by shovel to a depth of 8" (so
that no weeds return). Then bring in topsoil and grade. Leave over the
winter for further settling. In the spring, fix any holes caused by
settling and then seed.

This is a major project, so I would really appreciate any suggestions.