Hi everyone.

It's hard for us to go fully organic at work, epsecially in the way of
fungicides on the greens, and in selective herbicides, but the boss has
tried in one way.

Last Friday we got some garlic spray, pine oil, and some others.
The main thing, the garlic spray being for the aphids on the roses around
the restaurant/pro shop. Also, the pine oil, as a weed killer around the pro
shop. Both being better chemicals to be used around a place that has people
walking around, eating and so on.

Excited about this, with a possibility of the pine oil being used for all
herbicide uses all around the course. How good we thought, walking around
the garden beds, no mask or suit needed, so much more comfortable and safer
feeling.

So the garlic spray smells very strong, but fresh. Smelt like pureed garlic.
Mixed at the rate of 20ml for 4litres (i think). So pretty concentrate, and
we pump it on to the standard roses that were riddled in aphids. Check
today, and none dead. Same amount on there. We think maybe we should have
used the wetting agent (DC Tron Spray oil). But then, once before we used
that at a rate of 1litre of oil, mixed with 10litres of water. Harmless to
spray, but very effective on the aphids. So in theory, the garlic did
nothing.

So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray. We could blast
them off with water, but wouldn't mind a spray.

Ok, now my kinda rant. The garlic spray wasn't effective. It seems widely
accepted that organic is good, right? Well I wonder where the incentive is,
costwise for such chemicals. I Forget the cost of the garlic spray, but when
worked out, rogor is much cheaper. Ok, it's nasty stuff, but works, and is
cheap.
Now get this. The pine oil, which we haven't used, but it's a glphosate
(roundup) substitute. Smells nice, just like pine o clean.
I was shocked to find out 4litres of the stuff cost $79. Ok, if that isn't
bad enough, the mix rate is 490ml per 1litre. Insane I think. In a day of
spraying gardens on the course, 3 of us may do around 8 backpacks of roundup
mix each. 10litres a backpack, thats a lot of chemical. It would take us
anywhere from 5 to 10 days of spraying that to do the whole courses gardens.

Needless to say, a combination of the cost, effectiveness, and mix rates
needed, there will be no more of those bought.
Sorry for the rant, but it was something that suprised me. I just find it a
little crazy, that in the day and age of "save our planey" "go organic" and
so on is pushed so hard, yet these organic chemicals that are coming out,
are doing so at a crazy cost.

Thanks for listening, sorry for the rant :-).

--
Remove "not" from start of email address to reply

How about Aloe Vera juice?

You take the aloe vera you juice it and mix it with water and spray onto the
roses.

Its really bitter and might kill the aphids. If you get some on your skin,
its also good 4 you!

Dear Andrew, Aphids tend to overwinter on milk thistle (sow thistle) and by
removing weeds around your nursery this can help to reduce your work in
controlling aphids.

Grab a copy of Organic Gardener (Gardening Australia) at your newsagency
which has heaps of contacts in the back for organic control of pests. Did
you know lady beetles will control aphids?

Biological Services in SA provide wasps for pests. Ph 08 8584 6977

Beneficial Bug company 02 4570 1331
Bio Protection P/L 03 5781 0033
Bugs for Bugs 07 4165 4626
Organic Crop protectants 02 98104566

Hope that helps you go organic. Heather.
"Andrew G" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone.

It's hard for us to go fully organic at work, epsecially in the way of
fungicides on the greens, and in selective herbicides, but the boss has
tried in one way.

Last Friday we got some garlic spray, pine oil, and some others.
The main thing, the garlic spray being for the aphids on the roses around
the restaurant/pro shop. Also, the pine oil, as a weed killer around the
pro
shop. Both being better chemicals to be used around a place that has
people
walking around, eating and so on.

Excited about this, with a possibility of the pine oil being used for all
herbicide uses all around the course. How good we thought, walking around
the garden beds, no mask or suit needed, so much more comfortable and
safer
feeling.

So the garlic spray smells very strong, but fresh. Smelt like pureed
garlic.
Mixed at the rate of 20ml for 4litres (i think). So pretty concentrate,
and
we pump it on to the standard roses that were riddled in aphids. Check
today, and none dead. Same amount on there. We think maybe we should have
used the wetting agent (DC Tron Spray oil). But then, once before we used
that at a rate of 1litre of oil, mixed with 10litres of water. Harmless to
spray, but very effective on the aphids. So in theory, the garlic did
nothing.

So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray. We could
blast
them off with water, but wouldn't mind a spray.

Ok, now my kinda rant. The garlic spray wasn't effective. It seems widely
accepted that organic is good, right? Well I wonder where the incentive
is,
costwise for such chemicals. I Forget the cost of the garlic spray, but
when
worked out, rogor is much cheaper. Ok, it's nasty stuff, but works, and is
cheap.
Now get this. The pine oil, which we haven't used, but it's a glphosate
(roundup) substitute. Smells nice, just like pine o clean.
I was shocked to find out 4litres of the stuff cost $79. Ok, if that isn't
bad enough, the mix rate is 490ml per 1litre. Insane I think. In a day of
spraying gardens on the course, 3 of us may do around 8 backpacks of
roundup
mix each. 10litres a backpack, thats a lot of chemical. It would take us
anywhere from 5 to 10 days of spraying that to do the whole courses
gardens.

Needless to say, a combination of the cost, effectiveness, and mix rates
needed, there will be no more of those bought.
Sorry for the rant, but it was something that suprised me. I just find it
a
little crazy, that in the day and age of "save our planey" "go organic"
and
so on is pushed so hard, yet these organic chemicals that are coming out,
are doing so at a crazy cost.

Thanks for listening, sorry for the rant :-).

--
Remove "not" from start of email address to reply

Bloody hell, Andrew, now you have got me going!

The organic industry is just like any other, there to make profit. They take
advantage of peoples naive belief that by using such products they are doing
the "right" thing. Every product has its down-side. Paper grocery sacks
cost more in greenhouse emissions than plastic ones (take into account loss
of forests, increased fuel to transport a heavier item, increased mechanical
work to produce, etc etc). I'll admit that economy of scale has not done
"organic" products any favours - until they match standard product
production volumes - so they have a right to be somewhat more expensive.
But on the other hand, many of them are made from waste products from other
lines and raw materials don't come much cheaper.

The other problem is that organic pesticides are, by definition, hazardous
substances - otherwise they wouldn't harm anything (maybe the garlic makes
the aphids taste better for ladybugs?). So they may be just as harmful to
the environment or to the individual as synthetic pesticides. Some of the
most toxic, carcinogenic and persistent substances in the world are natural
products! in many cases the early chemical industry took natural
preparations, found the active component, synthesized it (eg pyrethrums),
and in many cases improved upon it so that application rates are minimised.
So, OK, the quest for bigger, better, faster drove science to spawn some
nightmares like chlorinated pesticides, but don't forget that it was science
that also diagnosed the problem & effects and that drove these substances
out of the market again.

So, when science hits upon some good cheap synthetic ideas like glyphosate,
you might as well take advantage (except around your roses!! - they are
just too sensitive to any drift). The organic alternatives - pine oil?
eucalyptus oil? Don't forget these are not really natural products. They
need a lot of energy to distil them from the waste stream and they
certainly don't occur in nature in the concentrations you might apply them
to your gardens. In fact, if you are talking persistence in the environment
and lack of selectivity, these oils are pretty questionable. Look under any
eucalypt or pine forest to see the effects of these oils and waxes on the
competition. Only a few hardy shrubby or herbaceous plants germinate.

And what else might garlic kill that you don't know about? The problem is
that new synthetic compounds have to tested on a wide range of organisms for
safety before it is approved for sale. Any fool can bottle an organic toxin
and put it on the shelf without regard to its safety or its strength of
active compound.

Sorry for my rave....... you did get me started.

Stick with the good bits from both the organic and synthetic industries,
shun the shysters in each and you'll be doing as well as can be expected for
the environment and mankind.

Jim
"Andrew G" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone.

It's hard for us to go fully organic at work, epsecially in the way of
fungicides on the greens, and in selective herbicides, but the boss has
tried in one way.

Last Friday we got some garlic spray, pine oil, and some others.
The main thing, the garlic spray being for the aphids on the roses around
the restaurant/pro shop. Also, the pine oil, as a weed killer around the
pro
shop. Both being better chemicals to be used around a place that has
people
walking around, eating and so on.

Excited about this, with a possibility of the pine oil being used for all
herbicide uses all around the course. How good we thought, walking around
the garden beds, no mask or suit needed, so much more comfortable and
safer
feeling.

So the garlic spray smells very strong, but fresh. Smelt like pureed
garlic.
Mixed at the rate of 20ml for 4litres (i think). So pretty concentrate,
and
we pump it on to the standard roses that were riddled in aphids. Check
today, and none dead. Same amount on there. We think maybe we should have
used the wetting agent (DC Tron Spray oil). But then, once before we used
that at a rate of 1litre of oil, mixed with 10litres of water. Harmless to
spray, but very effective on the aphids. So in theory, the garlic did
nothing.

So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray. We could
blast
them off with water, but wouldn't mind a spray.

Ok, now my kinda rant. The garlic spray wasn't effective. It seems widely
accepted that organic is good, right? Well I wonder where the incentive
is,
costwise for such chemicals. I Forget the cost of the garlic spray, but
when
worked out, rogor is much cheaper. Ok, it's nasty stuff, but works, and is
cheap.
Now get this. The pine oil, which we haven't used, but it's a glphosate
(roundup) substitute. Smells nice, just like pine o clean.
I was shocked to find out 4litres of the stuff cost $79. Ok, if that isn't
bad enough, the mix rate is 490ml per 1litre. Insane I think. In a day of
spraying gardens on the course, 3 of us may do around 8 backpacks of
roundup
mix each. 10litres a backpack, thats a lot of chemical. It would take us
anywhere from 5 to 10 days of spraying that to do the whole courses
gardens.

Needless to say, a combination of the cost, effectiveness, and mix rates
needed, there will be no more of those bought.
Sorry for the rant, but it was something that suprised me. I just find it
a
little crazy, that in the day and age of "save our planey" "go organic"
and
so on is pushed so hard, yet these organic chemicals that are coming out,
are doing so at a crazy cost.

Thanks for listening, sorry for the rant :-).

--
Remove "not" from start of email address to reply

Is white oil organic? How does it go with controlling aphids?

I've planted garlic around the garden bed that has the citrus trees (lemon &
mandarin) in it. So far I haven't noticed aphids on any of the plants in
that garden bed, although I have seen ladybirds on the plants, so they may
well be there.

--
Wanda
aka Willow
The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances
garden gnome
http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow

~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~
Andrew G wrote in message
...
Hi everyone.

It's hard for us to go fully organic at work, epsecially in the way of
fungicides on the greens, and in selective herbicides, but the boss has
tried in one way.

Last Friday we got some garlic spray, pine oil, and some others.
The main thing, the garlic spray being for the aphids on the roses around
the restaurant/pro shop. Also, the pine oil, as a weed killer around the
pro
shop. Both being better chemicals to be used around a place that has
people
walking around, eating and so on.

Excited about this, with a possibility of the pine oil being used for all
herbicide uses all around the course. How good we thought, walking around
the garden beds, no mask or suit needed, so much more comfortable and
safer
feeling.

So the garlic spray smells very strong, but fresh. Smelt like pureed
garlic.
Mixed at the rate of 20ml for 4litres (i think). So pretty concentrate,
and
we pump it on to the standard roses that were riddled in aphids. Check
today, and none dead. Same amount on there. We think maybe we should have
used the wetting agent (DC Tron Spray oil). But then, once before we used
that at a rate of 1litre of oil, mixed with 10litres of water. Harmless to
spray, but very effective on the aphids. So in theory, the garlic did
nothing.

So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray. We could
blast
them off with water, but wouldn't mind a spray.

Ok, now my kinda rant. The garlic spray wasn't effective. It seems widely
accepted that organic is good, right? Well I wonder where the incentive
is,
costwise for such chemicals. I Forget the cost of the garlic spray, but
when
worked out, rogor is much cheaper. Ok, it's nasty stuff, but works, and is
cheap.
Now get this. The pine oil, which we haven't used, but it's a glphosate
(roundup) substitute. Smells nice, just like pine o clean.
I was shocked to find out 4litres of the stuff cost $79. Ok, if that isn't
bad enough, the mix rate is 490ml per 1litre. Insane I think. In a day of
spraying gardens on the course, 3 of us may do around 8 backpacks of
roundup
mix each. 10litres a backpack, thats a lot of chemical. It would take us
anywhere from 5 to 10 days of spraying that to do the whole courses
gardens.

Needless to say, a combination of the cost, effectiveness, and mix rates
needed, there will be no more of those bought.
Sorry for the rant, but it was something that suprised me. I just find it
a
little crazy, that in the day and age of "save our planey" "go organic"
and
so on is pushed so hard, yet these organic chemicals that are coming out,
are doing so at a crazy cost.

Thanks for listening, sorry for the rant :-).

--
Remove "not" from start of email address to reply

With all the commentary on organic vs inorganic, we seem to have lost the
plot on the aphid scene. There need to be more people out there who have
actual experience with aphids!

I'm not surprised to hear that Garlic doesn't work, it's not a panacea,
although very useful on some pests. I have heard that soapy water is best
for removing the aphids, particularly smaller soft bodied ones.

Cheers
Graham




"Andrew G" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone.

It's hard for us to go fully organic at work, epsecially in the way of
fungicides on the greens, and in selective herbicides, but the boss has
tried in one way.

Last Friday we got some garlic spray, pine oil, and some others.
The main thing, the garlic spray being for the aphids on the roses around
the restaurant/pro shop. Also, the pine oil, as a weed killer around the
pro
shop. Both being better chemicals to be used around a place that has
people
walking around, eating and so on.

Excited about this, with a possibility of the pine oil being used for all
herbicide uses all around the course. How good we thought, walking around
the garden beds, no mask or suit needed, so much more comfortable and
safer
feeling.

So the garlic spray smells very strong, but fresh. Smelt like pureed
garlic.
Mixed at the rate of 20ml for 4litres (i think). So pretty concentrate,
and
we pump it on to the standard roses that were riddled in aphids. Check
today, and none dead. Same amount on there. We think maybe we should have
used the wetting agent (DC Tron Spray oil). But then, once before we used
that at a rate of 1litre of oil, mixed with 10litres of water. Harmless to
spray, but very effective on the aphids. So in theory, the garlic did
nothing.

So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray. We could
blast
them off with water, but wouldn't mind a spray.

Ok, now my kinda rant. The garlic spray wasn't effective. It seems widely
accepted that organic is good, right? Well I wonder where the incentive
is,
costwise for such chemicals. I Forget the cost of the garlic spray, but
when
worked out, rogor is much cheaper. Ok, it's nasty stuff, but works, and is
cheap.
Now get this. The pine oil, which we haven't used, but it's a glphosate
(roundup) substitute. Smells nice, just like pine o clean.
I was shocked to find out 4litres of the stuff cost $79. Ok, if that isn't
bad enough, the mix rate is 490ml per 1litre. Insane I think. In a day of
spraying gardens on the course, 3 of us may do around 8 backpacks of
roundup
mix each. 10litres a backpack, thats a lot of chemical. It would take us
anywhere from 5 to 10 days of spraying that to do the whole courses
gardens.

Needless to say, a combination of the cost, effectiveness, and mix rates
needed, there will be no more of those bought.
Sorry for the rant, but it was something that suprised me. I just find it
a
little crazy, that in the day and age of "save our planey" "go organic"
and
so on is pushed so hard, yet these organic chemicals that are coming out,
are doing so at a crazy cost.

Thanks for listening, sorry for the rant :-).

--
Remove "not" from start of email address to reply

Graham and Beth Harden wrote:
: With all the commentary on organic vs inorganic, we seem to have lost the
: plot on the aphid scene. There need to be more people out there who have
: actual experience with aphids!

: I'm not surprised to hear that Garlic doesn't work, it's not a panacea,
: although very useful on some pests. I have heard that soapy water is best
: for removing the aphids, particularly smaller soft bodied ones.

Some people swear that if you plant some flowering plants near the
aphids they will attract predatory wasps. What flowering plants?
queen annes lace, carrots, coriander.

I do but I've never had a problem with aphids so can't tell you if this
changes anything.

regards


Chris



: "Andrew G" wrote in message
: ...
: Hi everyone.
:
: It's hard for us to go fully organic at work, epsecially in the way of
: fungicides on the greens, and in selective herbicides, but the boss has
: tried in one way.
:
: Last Friday we got some garlic spray, pine oil, and some others.
: The main thing, the garlic spray being for the aphids on the roses around
: the restaurant/pro shop. Also, the pine oil, as a weed killer around the
: pro
: shop. Both being better chemicals to be used around a place that has
: people
: walking around, eating and so on.
:
: Excited about this, with a possibility of the pine oil being used for all
: herbicide uses all around the course. How good we thought, walking around
: the garden beds, no mask or suit needed, so much more comfortable and
: safer
: feeling.
:
: So the garlic spray smells very strong, but fresh. Smelt like pureed
: garlic.
: Mixed at the rate of 20ml for 4litres (i think). So pretty concentrate,
: and
: we pump it on to the standard roses that were riddled in aphids. Check
: today, and none dead. Same amount on there. We think maybe we should have
: used the wetting agent (DC Tron Spray oil). But then, once before we used
: that at a rate of 1litre of oil, mixed with 10litres of water. Harmless to
: spray, but very effective on the aphids. So in theory, the garlic did
: nothing.
:
: So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray. We could
: blast
: them off with water, but wouldn't mind a spray.
:
: Ok, now my kinda rant. The garlic spray wasn't effective. It seems widely
: accepted that organic is good, right? Well I wonder where the incentive
: is,
: costwise for such chemicals. I Forget the cost of the garlic spray, but
: when
: worked out, rogor is much cheaper. Ok, it's nasty stuff, but works, and is
: cheap.
: Now get this. The pine oil, which we haven't used, but it's a glphosate
: (roundup) substitute. Smells nice, just like pine o clean.
: I was shocked to find out 4litres of the stuff cost $79. Ok, if that isn't
: bad enough, the mix rate is 490ml per 1litre. Insane I think. In a day of
: spraying gardens on the course, 3 of us may do around 8 backpacks of
: roundup
: mix each. 10litres a backpack, thats a lot of chemical. It would take us
: anywhere from 5 to 10 days of spraying that to do the whole courses
: gardens.
:
: Needless to say, a combination of the cost, effectiveness, and mix rates
: needed, there will be no more of those bought.
: Sorry for the rant, but it was something that suprised me. I just find it
: a
: little crazy, that in the day and age of "save our planey" "go organic"
: and
: so on is pushed so hard, yet these organic chemicals that are coming out,
: are doing so at a crazy cost.
:
: Thanks for listening, sorry for the rant :-).
:
: --
: Remove "not" from start of email address to reply
:
:



--
(:

Taking the "paranoid" out of "delusion".
icq #107970956

"Andrew G" writes:
So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray.

Yes. The same one that I suggested to you last time you asked that question!
I could simply refer you to google to read it, but for those others who are
newcomers, or read only infrequently, here it is again:-

Subject: Rogor substitues?

"Andrew G" writes:
We have been spraying the standard roses, ground cover roses, and Daylillies
at work for Aphids, using rogor.

Save your Rogor for another job. Instead, spray with a mixture of metho
and water. I use it in the ratio 1:2 but you are free to experiment with
weaker dilutions. It seems not to harm any plants I've tried it on, and
the aphids die instantly. There couldn't be anything safer (just don't
smoke while mixing it!) and it leaves no residue. I spray liberally on
the buds of roses and new shoots of citrus where aphids accumulate. Do
it properly the first time and no followup spraying seems to be needed.

I think you will find a ratio of 1:4 quite adequate. Experiment first.
--
John Savage (for email, replace "ks" with "k" and delete "n")

"John Savage" wrote in message
om...
"Andrew G" writes:
So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray.

Yes. The same one that I suggested to you last time you asked that
question!
I could simply refer you to google to read it, but for those others who
are
newcomers, or read only infrequently, here it is again:-

Subject: Rogor substitues?

"Andrew G" writes:
We have been spraying the standard roses, ground cover roses, and
Daylillies
at work for Aphids, using rogor.

Save your Rogor for another job. Instead, spray with a mixture of metho
and water. I use it in the ratio 1:2 but you are free to experiment with
weaker dilutions. It seems not to harm any plants I've tried it on, and
the aphids die instantly. There couldn't be anything safer (just don't
smoke while mixing it!) and it leaves no residue. I spray liberally on
the buds of roses and new shoots of citrus where aphids accumulate. Do
it properly the first time and no followup spraying seems to be needed.

I think you will find a ratio of 1:4 quite adequate. Experiment first.
--
John Savage (for email, replace "ks" with "k" and delete "n")


Thanks for that.
Sorry I never saw that, possibly it was the time earlier this year when
ozemail was not downloading all posts!

--
Remove "not" from start of email address to reply

Remember that aphids will overwinter on sow thistle or milk thistle so
removal of this weed reduces aphid numbers too.

Ladybirds also kill aphids (certain breeds) you can get bugs for them from
Try....Bio protection ph. 03 5781 0033 or Beneficial bug company 02 4570
1331 or Bugs for bugs 07 4165 4663.

Heather

"John Savage" wrote in message
om...
"Andrew G" writes:
So any ideas there? Any ideas on a good organic Aphid spray.

Yes. The same one that I suggested to you last time you asked that
question!
I could simply refer you to google to read it, but for those others who
are
newcomers, or read only infrequently, here it is again:-

Subject: Rogor substitues?

"Andrew G" writes:
We have been spraying the standard roses, ground cover roses, and
Daylillies
at work for Aphids, using rogor.

Save your Rogor for another job. Instead, spray with a mixture of metho
and water. I use it in the ratio 1:2 but you are free to experiment with
weaker dilutions. It seems not to harm any plants I've tried it on, and
the aphids die instantly. There couldn't be anything safer (just don't
smoke while mixing it!) and it leaves no residue. I spray liberally on
the buds of roses and new shoots of citrus where aphids accumulate. Do
it properly the first time and no followup spraying seems to be needed.

I think you will find a ratio of 1:4 quite adequate. Experiment first.
--
John Savage (for email, replace "ks" with "k" and delete "n")