I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this spring/summer.

The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was mignonettes,
planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep, took a bit of
time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid oct
from seedlings from bunnings again.

They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite a few leaves to eat until then.

I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo rossa, mostly
from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone flogging them
at the sunday market.

None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.

The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large grapefruit size,
but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did start using
leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have stopped.

We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches
of a week or so over 40C, with some rather cooler times in between.

They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.

Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?

The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.

Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?

Rod Speed wrote:
I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this
spring/summer.
The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was
mignonettes, planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep,
took a
bit of time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid
oct
from seedlings from bunnings again.

They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite a
few leaves to eat until then.
I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo
rossa, mostly from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone
flogging
them at the sunday market.

None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.

The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large
grapefruit size, but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to
seed I did
start using leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to
have
stopped.
We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches
of a week or so over 40C, with some rather cooler times in between.

They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.

Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?

Yes. I give up on lettuce in summer. Despite being seen as a summer salad
vege, in a hot climate they grow best in autumn and spring and will do OK in
winter, most will stand a light frost.



The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.

Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?

If you find out let me know. I have tried some lablelled "slow bolting" but
they didn't seem any better.

David

David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this spring/summer.

The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was mignonettes, planted from seedlings from bunnings,
transplanted early sep, took a bit of time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid oct from
seedlings from bunnings again.

They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite a few leaves to eat until then.

I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo rossa, mostly from seedings from bunnings, but the
salad mix from someone flogging them at the sunday market.

None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.

The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to bit bigger than a large
grapefruit size, but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did start using leaves off the small
icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have stopped.

We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches of a week or so over 40C, with some rather
cooler times in between.

They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.

Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?

Yes. I give up on lettuce in summer. Despite being seen as a summer salad vege, in a hot climate they grow best in
autumn and spring and will do OK in winter, most will stand a light frost.

The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.

Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?

If you find out let me know. I have tried some lablelled "slow bolting" but they didn't seem any better.

Just been down the nursery, and the woman said that she just planted
a punnet of Vegie Patch's Lettuce Combo last week and was already
eating leaves off it this week. The label doesnt say exactly what the
variety is, part of the mix looks like a red leafed cos and the rest
has more wrinkly leaves and is light green. She did sort of imply
that it was only one of the varietys that was so spectacular, so
I will plant the punnet this evening and see how it goes.

Rod Speed wrote:
I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this
spring/summer.
The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was
mignonettes, planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep, took a
bit of time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid oct
from seedlings from bunnings again.

They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite a
few leaves to eat until then.
I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo
rossa, mostly from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone flogging
them at the sunday market.

None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.

The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large
grapefruit size, but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did
start using leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have
stopped.
We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches
of a week or so over 40C, with some rather cooler times in between.

They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.

Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?

The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.

Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?

One obvious question that occurs is where is the
lettuce thats in the supermarkets coming from ?

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this spring/summer.

The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was
mignonettes,
planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep, took a bit
of
time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid oct
from seedlings from bunnings again.

They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite a few
leaves to eat until then.

I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo rossa,
mostly
from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone flogging them
at the sunday market.

None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.

The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large grapefruit
size,
but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did start
using
leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have stopped.

We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches
of a week or so over 40C, with some rather cooler times in between.

They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.

Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?

The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.

Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?

Lettuces were originally a winter crop. It was selection of plants that
could withstand hotter conditions in summer that sees us have them all year
round. I would guess that they are not good over 35C as most would have been
developed in the northern hemisphere. Lettuce prices in real hot weather go
through the roof so it would make sense. My uncle has success over summer in
a shadehouse so maybe the sunlight is to intense outdoors.

Loosecanon wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this spring/summer.

The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was mignonettes,
planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep, took a bit of
time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid
oct from seedlings from bunnings again.

They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite
a few leaves to eat until then.

I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo rossa, mostly
from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone flogging
them at the sunday market.

None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.

The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large grapefruit size,
but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did start using
leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have stopped.

We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches of a week or so over 40C, with some rather
cooler times in between.

They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.

Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?

The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.

Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?

Lettuces were originally a winter crop. It was selection of plants
that could withstand hotter conditions in summer that sees us have
them all year round. I would guess that they are not good over 35C as most would have been developed in the northern
hemisphere.

Yeah, that figures, and like I said, we have had two decent stretches over 40C too.

Due for another later this week too.

Lettuce prices in real hot weather go through the roof so it would make sense.

They havent here. I got an iceberg last week for $1.39 which is about as low as it gets.

My uncle has success over summer in a shadehouse so maybe the sunlight is to intense outdoors.

OK, I'll try some shadecloth with the 4 varietys that are doing nothing much.

Thats in a separate area to the latest Lettuce Combo.

Someone must be growing them, maybe they are coming from New Zealand.

Usually Tasmania.
Some are hydroponically grown too....
Cool roots means problem easily solved...
Grow them in the shade, with limited sunlight.
We Tasmanians are so ingenious....
Whoops I've blown my cover....



On 20/01/2010 5:57 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
Loosecanon wrote

Rod wrote


I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this spring/summer.


The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was mignonettes,
planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep, took a bit of
time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid
oct from seedlings from bunnings again.


They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite
a few leaves to eat until then.


I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo rossa, mostly
from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone flogging
them at the sunday market.


None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.


The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large grapefruit size,
but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did start using
leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have stopped.


We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches of a week or so over 40C, with some rather
cooler times in between.


They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.


Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?


The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.


Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?


Lettuces were originally a winter crop. It was selection of plants
that could withstand hotter conditions in summer that sees us have
them all year round. I would guess that they are not good over 35C as most would have been developed in the northern
hemisphere.

Yeah, that figures, and like I said, we have had two decent stretches over 40C too.

Due for another later this week too.


Lettuce prices in real hot weather go through the roof so it would make sense.

They havent here. I got an iceberg last week for $1.39 which is about as low as it gets.


My uncle has success over summer in a shadehouse so maybe the sunlight is to intense outdoors.

OK, I'll try some shadecloth with the 4 varietys that are doing nothing much.

Thats in a separate area to the latest Lettuce Combo.

Someone must be growing them, maybe they are coming from New Zealand.




--

I tried to grow lettuce last summer here in Perth.
Never again - they required constant water and the odd hot spell just
knocked them around too much.
B

"Jonno" wrote in message
...
Usually Tasmania.
Some are hydroponically grown too....
Cool roots means problem easily solved...
Grow them in the shade, with limited sunlight.
We Tasmanians are so ingenious....
Whoops I've blown my cover....



On 20/01/2010 5:57 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
Loosecanon wrote

Rod wrote


I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this spring/summer.


The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was
mignonettes,
planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep, took a
bit of
time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid
oct from seedlings from bunnings again.


They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite
a few leaves to eat until then.


I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo
rossa, mostly
from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone flogging
them at the sunday market.


None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.


The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large
grapefruit size,
but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did start
using
leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have
stopped.


We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches
of a week or so over 40C, with some rather
cooler times in between.


They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.


Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?


The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.


Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?


Lettuces were originally a winter crop. It was selection of plants
that could withstand hotter conditions in summer that sees us have
them all year round. I would guess that they are not good over 35C as
most would have been developed in the northern
hemisphere.

Yeah, that figures, and like I said, we have had two decent stretches
over 40C too.

Due for another later this week too.


Lettuce prices in real hot weather go through the roof so it would make
sense.

They havent here. I got an iceberg last week for $1.39 which is about as
low as it gets.


My uncle has success over summer in a shadehouse so maybe the sunlight
is to intense outdoors.

OK, I'll try some shadecloth with the 4 varietys that are doing nothing
much.

Thats in a separate area to the latest Lettuce Combo.

Someone must be growing them, maybe they are coming from New Zealand.




--

Blair wrote:

I tried to grow lettuce last summer here in Perth.
Never again - they required constant water

Yeah, managed to **** up the ones the nursery said did fine in the hot weather,
gave them a good watering the evening I transplanted the seedlings and them
managed to let them dry out so badly the next day that they were all wilted and
lying flat on the ground. I had previously only watered once a day, normally late
in the day. They did come back from the dead with water, but then I managed
to do it the next day again. They did come back again with water and I plan to
water them twice a day now to stop that happening again.

I'll probably get another punnet of them and keep them well watered, more
for academic interest than anything else. The stuff we buy in the supermarket
right thru the summer must be coming from somewhere and if they can do it,
I should be able to too. I just want leaves, dont care if I cant get icebergs to grow.

and the odd hot spell just knocked them around too much.

And its ****ing hot around here, it isnt that unusual to get
10 days in a row over 40C with the humidity in single digits.

If you do some washing in that sort of weather, the first batch is
dry on the line by the time you put the second batch on the line.

Still, it must be possible, even if it takes shadecloth and automated watering.

I do plan to try tomatoes inside in winter, I've got massive great patio
doors down most of the north side of the house for passive solar and
they should grow fine in pots inside, behind those doors.

Might try some lettuce in pots inside, I obviously have an evaporative
cooler on the roof and just bask under that in that sort of hot weather.

The seedlings in the punnets are very healthy, in the nursery's shade house.


Jonno wrote

Usually Tasmania.
Some are hydroponically grown too....
Cool roots means problem easily solved...
Grow them in the shade, with limited sunlight.
We Tasmanians are so ingenious....
Whoops I've blown my cover....



On 20/01/2010 5:57 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
Loosecanon wrote

Rod wrote


I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this
spring/summer.

The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was
mignonettes,
planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep,
took a bit of
time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid
oct from seedlings from bunnings again.


They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got
quite a few leaves to eat until then.


I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo
rossa, mostly
from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone
flogging them at the sunday market.


None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.


The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large
grapefruit size,
but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did
start using
leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have
stopped.


We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of
patches of a week or so over 40C, with some rather
cooler times in between.


They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.


Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?


The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.


Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot
weather ?

Lettuces were originally a winter crop. It was selection of plants
that could withstand hotter conditions in summer that sees us have
them all year round. I would guess that they are not good over 35C
as most would have been developed in the northern
hemisphere.

Yeah, that figures, and like I said, we have had two decent
stretches over 40C too.

Due for another later this week too.


Lettuce prices in real hot weather go through the roof so it would
make sense.

They havent here. I got an iceberg last week for $1.39 which is
about as low as it gets.


My uncle has success over summer in a shadehouse so maybe the
sunlight is to intense outdoors.

OK, I'll try some shadecloth with the 4 varietys that are doing
nothing much.

Thats in a separate area to the latest Lettuce Combo.

Someone must be growing them, maybe they are coming from New
Zealand.

--

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Blair wrote:

I tried to grow lettuce last summer here in Perth.
Never again - they required constant water

Yeah, managed to **** up the ones the nursery said did fine in the hot
weather,

lettuce can be fascinatingly difficult!! (at any rate, i've been fascinated
with the difficulties i've had ;-)

firstly, you may not have ****ed them up - not all nurserypersons have any
idea about growing stuff, & babies in punnets from bunnings (or similar) can
simply be a bad bet - firstly, transplanting causes some element of stress
to them (therefore they bolt sooner) and secondly they've not had the chance
to grow in their conditions (as punnets are always coddled but gardens can't
be so much) so they therefore bolt sooner.

summer is hard for lettuce, it doesn't like heat too much. try them in
semi-shaded pots/foam boxes or some other sort of semi-shaded location, or
under shade cloth in the garden. shade will help enormously.

if you plant seed direct (whether in the garden or a pot) you will have much
more success too, it avoids the problems mentioned above. sow thickly & then
thin them out (the second session of thinnings when the thinnings are
baby-sized but big enough to eat).

they like a LOT of water relative to many other plants, as their structure
is mostly water. failure to water leads to bolting!

I'll probably get another punnet of them and keep them well watered, more
for academic interest than anything else. The stuff we buy in the
supermarket
right thru the summer must be coming from somewhere

cooler areas, and often grown in shadehouses (or similar). but they're not
really a summer crop. other greens like mizuna are a better bet. you can
also track down seed of lettuce cultivars which are intended to cope better
with summer, but no guarantees there.

and if they can do it,
I should be able to too. I just want leaves, dont care if I cant get
icebergs to grow.

leafies are better, as even when (rather than if ;-)) they bolt, you've
still eaten from them. whereas icebergs & other hearting lettuces give less,
& are more of a risk re bolting well before maturity.

Might try some lettuce in pots inside, I obviously have an evaporative
cooler on the roof and just bask under that in that sort of hot weather.

inside is not the worst idea, but they will still need some sun. perhaps a
spot that's sunny in the mornings.

i had my best crop ever by growing an heirloom mix, sown direct, under
shadecloth, but they still bolted before i wanted them to. but, sowing them
is simple & you get loads this way & can re-sow every 2 weeks or a month for
a supply of nice baby greens. even if they still bolt too young, you've had
soemthing from them.

in winter, lettuce is a pain in the arse as well. but, there are many winter
cultivars (they're often the red lettuces).

i haven't worked out yet whether seasol/poo stew is a huge help to lettuce
or not, but it does seem to be anecdotally.
kylie

0tterbot wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Blair wrote

I tried to grow lettuce last summer here in Perth.
Never again - they required constant water

Yeah, managed to **** up the ones the nursery said did fine in the hot weather,

lettuce can be fascinatingly difficult!! (at any rate, i've been fascinated with the difficulties i've had ;-)

Thats the only real problem I have had, they dont like our stinking hot weather much.

firstly, you may not have ****ed them up

Yeah, I did, I let them dry out far too much so they were visibly wilted and lying on the ground.

And then repeated that the next day too.

Just went back to get some more and he gave me the punnet for free.
Didnt even mention my ****up either.

- not all nurserypersons have any idea about growing stuff,

She said she had planted some herself and was already eating leaves
off them a week later, so thats what happened, not her prediction.

I didnt think to ask her where she was growing them, shaded etc, and she wasnt there today.

& babies in punnets from bunnings (or similar) can simply be a bad bet - firstly, transplanting causes some element of
stress to them (therefore they bolt sooner)

Never had that problem.

and secondly they've not had the chance to grow in their conditions (as punnets are always coddled but gardens can't
be so much) so they therefore bolt sooner.

summer is hard for lettuce, it doesn't like heat too much.

Yeah, that certainly appears to be the problem and its
****ing hot here, 10 days over 40C isnt that unusual.

try them in semi-shaded pots/foam boxes

Yeah, about to try that.

or some other sort of semi-shaded location, or under shade cloth in the garden. shade will help enormously.

Yeah, just got some shade cloth this morning, havent tried it yet.

I might try some inside too, under the cooler.

if you plant seed direct (whether in the garden or a pot) you will have much more success too,

I didnt, I appeared to let them dry out too much.

Only one batch germinated and needless to say the bloody birds got the lot in one meal.

Got bird nets now, so that wont happen again.

But the net says that they wont germinate over 30C. Not clear what that means,
whether its any time of the day over 30C or if the minimum temp is over 30C.

There is no chance of seeds germinating if its any time over 30C, we
hardly ever get a day when it isnt and dont often get that even inside.

We dont often get overnight minimums over 30C tho.

I did get some to germinate fine in seed trays that I kept in plastic to
keep them wet, but thats just my seedlings as opposed to Bunnings etc.

I should be able to keep them wet enough in the ground
with plastic etc, but its not clear about that temperature yet.

it avoids the problems mentioned above. sow thickly & then thin them out (the second session of thinnings
when the thinnings are baby-sized but big enough to eat).

they like a LOT of water relative to many other plants, as their
structure is mostly water. failure to water leads to bolting!

And they dont have much in the way of roots either.

I was previously giving them a good soak each day, mostly in the
evenings, so there was standing water on the ground. But thats
nowhere near enough now in the hot weather, so I have changed
over to twice a day now, and will see how that goes.

I'll probably get another punnet of them and keep them well watered,
more for academic interest than anything else. The stuff we buy in
the supermarket
right thru the summer must be coming from somewhere

cooler areas, and often grown in shadehouses (or similar). but they're not really a summer crop. other greens like
mizuna are a better bet.

Can you use that on sandwitches ?

you can also track down seed of lettuce cultivars which are intended to cope better with summer, but no guarantees
there.

Yeah, found one site that lists those, but they still say
that even the H ones should be planted from April.

and if they can do it, I should be able to too. I just want leaves, dont care if I cant get icebergs to grow.

leafies are better, as even when (rather than if ;-)) they bolt,
you've still eaten from them. whereas icebergs & other hearting
lettuces give less, & are more of a risk re bolting well before maturity.

Yeah, mate of mine had some very decent ones but he's so slack that
he doesnt even know what variety they were. He did give me some,
and gave me some tomatoes at the same time, so it most likely would
have been late summer, but I didnt think to record when it was.

He let them all go to seed and collected the seed, and tried to
plant the seeds this spring, but appears to have not kept them
we enough and didnt get any germination at all. Must ask him
if he has any seeds left, think he planted the lot. I could certainly
go to some trouble to germinate them like in the fridge etc if there are some left.

Might try some lettuce in pots inside, I obviously have an
evaporative cooler on the roof and just bask under that in that sort
of hot weather.

inside is not the worst idea, but they will still need some sun. perhaps a spot that's sunny in the mornings.

Yeah, thats what I meant, should have said that. I have 7 patio doors on
the north side of the house for passive solar and the one East facing
door certainly does get sun in the morning so there would be fine.

Concrete and quarry tiles floor, so I can do that anywhere I like.

i had my best crop ever by growing an heirloom mix, sown direct, under shadecloth, but they still bolted before i
wanted them to. but,
sowing them is simple & you get loads this way & can re-sow every 2
weeks or a month for a supply of nice baby greens. even if they still
bolt too young, you've had soemthing from them.

So what about that 30C germination question ?

in winter, lettuce is a pain in the arse as well. but, there are many winter cultivars (they're often the red
lettuces).

i haven't worked out yet whether seasol/poo stew is a huge help to lettuce or not, but it does seem to be anecdotally.

Havent tried that yet. Just used pelletised veg starter fertiliser
and when they grew fine, didnt bother with anything else.

I plan to collect the seed off those, mignonettes and cos.

kylie

Most plant do terrible in very hot weather. (Unless youre cactus.)
Zuchinis cucumbers and plants which are susceptible in highly humid
conditions get what some loosely call blossom end rot.
The reality is, heat slows/stops/kills some plants. Deserts are better
in that deserts are dry. This means air doesnt conduct heat as well.
I found it difficult to get lettuce plants in December January, until
accountants started asking why they weren't selling any at that time of
year.
So youre finding out The reason was most gardeners had problems
growing them is stressfull heat.. (Melbourne)
If you plant them amongst other plants, you can do like me, have success
if you water them twice a day, and keep checking them fro heat stress..
No problems in NE Victoria. if you are aware that Aquasol is helpful,
but if they get limp, like most they cannot reproduce or even grow.
A bit like humans really. When your hot , youre not...


On 19/01/2010 2:10 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this spring/summer.

The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was mignonettes,
planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep, took a bit of
time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid oct
from seedlings from bunnings again.

They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite a few leaves to eat until then.

I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo rossa, mostly
from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone flogging them
at the sunday market.

None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.

The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large grapefruit size,
but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did start using
leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have stopped.

We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of patches
of a week or so over 40C, with some rather cooler times in between.

They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.

Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?

The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.

Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?




--

Jonno wrote:

Most plant do terrible in very hot weather. (Unless youre cactus.)

Dunno, my tomatoes and potatos and strawberrys are doing fine.

Zuchinis cucumbers and plants which are susceptible in highly humid conditions get what some loosely call blossom end
rot.

Mine isnt highly humid, in fact we normally have
single digit relative humiditys on the hottest days.

The reality is, heat slows/stops/kills some plants. Deserts are better
in that deserts are dry. This means air doesnt conduct heat as well.

You wanna try hot windy days when the temp is 45C.

I found it difficult to get lettuce plants in December January, until accountants started asking why they weren't
selling any at that time of year.

Why arent they eating salads ? I certainly do, more than in winter etc.

So youre finding out The reason was most gardeners had problems growing them is stressfull heat.. (Melbourne)

If you plant them amongst other plants,

I am doing that.

you can do like me, have success if you water them twice a day,

I've just started doing that now, be interesting to see what difference it makes.

and keep checking them fro heat stress..

Nothing visible with the previous ones, they just dont do anything, dont grow.

No problems in NE Victoria.

Thats a similar climate to mine.

if you are aware that Aquasol is helpful,

Havent been fertilizing them, mainly because the first two
batches of mignonettes and cos in spring did fine without any.
This is on fresh ground that has just had weeds growing on it.
I did apply the Brunnings vegitable starter fertilizer before
transplanting the seedlings with the mignonettes and cos
but not with the later 4 batches of mignonettes and cos, salad mix
and icebergs. I've just applied some now to see if thats the
problem. The strawberrys in that patch are doing fine tho.

but if they get limp, like most they cannot reproduce or even grow.

Yeah, thats why I transplanted another punnet of the Lettuce Combo,
tho the green flat leaved seedlings have produced new leaves. I didnt
ask the woman at the nursury which particular ones she was getting
the new leaves off, she wasnt there yesterday when I got the
second punnet of Lettuce Combo, I'll show up on Thursday and
see if she's in there again.

A bit like humans really. When your hot , youre not...

Most of the tomatoes are doing fine, particularly the
Cherry Sweet Bites, Father Toms and Mama's Delight.

The problem appears to be that lettuce doesnt like stinking hot weather much.


Rod Speed wrote
I dont know that much about growing veg, first time this
spring/summer. The first couple of batches of lettuce did fine, First batch was
mignonettes, planted from seedlings from bunnings, transplanted early sep, took a
bit of time to start but then did fine. Second batch was cos, planted mid
oct from seedlings from bunnings again.

They both went to seed after a very hot spell in mid Nov, got quite
a few leaves to eat until then. I've since planted some more icebers, 'salad mix', cos, and lollo
rossa, mostly from seedings from bunnings, but the salad mix from someone flogging
them at the sunday market.

None of them have done much except the icebergs.
They havent died, just havent done much growth wise.

The icebergs did grow noticeably, up to big bigger than a large
grapefruit size, but no hearts. Since the first two batches had gone to seed I did
start using leaves off the small icebergs. Now even the icebergs seen to have
stopped. We have had much hotter weather obviously, in fact a couple of
patches of a week or so over 40C, with some rather cooler times in between.

They get plenty of water, once a day from one of those
soaker hoses that sort of weep water rather than spray it.

Is it just that they dont like the very hot weather ?

The net seems to suggest that thats the problem.

Are there any varietys that do much better in the very hot weather ?

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

if you plant seed direct (whether in the garden or a pot) you will have
much more success too,

I didnt, I appeared to let them dry out too much.

right, regardless of where you plant them, you need to keep the seed nicely
moist until they've germinated & grown a little, naturally g

what i do with most seeds lately, is that after planting them & whatnot, put
some straw around (higher than the seed bed but not over the seeds,
obviously) & lay an aluminium fly screen over the top. this helps keep the
wind off, & provides a little shade as well. ime, they just do much better
from the protection. these i can water a bit less too. although with lettuce
you still probably want to check them 2x daily to be sure the soil is moist.

having said that, self-seeded lettuce thrives on all manner of ignoring it
completely, so there's that. the benefit of seed is that only the good ones
prosper. with transplants, you might just be coddling along a dud that's
never going to be a really sturdy plant. a dud grown from seed, you just
thin it out & keep only the big boisterous ones to reach maturity.


Only one batch germinated and needless to say the bloody birds got the lot
in one meal.

Got bird nets now, so that wont happen again.

But the net says that they wont germinate over 30C. Not clear what that
means,
whether its any time of the day over 30C or if the minimum temp is over
30C.

with lettuce in particular? probably a maximum (day) average. i'd say it
just means germination is very poor in hot weather. if it goes over 30 for
an hour it doesn't mean none of the seeds will ever germinate!! but you'd
certainly want to germinate them when it's a little cooler, or in a cooler
place. also, a 35 degree day is not necessarily unpleasant for a plant which
is shaded, so there's that.

also worth remembering most veg plants grow best (overall) in the 15-25
degree range, iirc, depending on the type of plant, because it's just the
way it is & they've been bred (e.g. in europe) to be that way. local
cultivars therefore have local advantage. (the cultivar australian yellow
leaf, which i don't think is particularly tasty alhtough it's not bad, is
definitely better for hot weather, i found. just as an example).

cooler areas, and often grown in shadehouses (or similar). but they're
not really a summer crop. other greens like mizuna are a better bet.

Can you use that on sandwitches ?

of course. and it grows all year round, it's extremely easy (unlike lettuce)
and prolific. nasturtium is another good one for summer (if you like peppery
leaves).

Yeah, mate of mine had some very decent ones but he's so slack that
he doesnt even know what variety they were. He did give me some,
and gave me some tomatoes at the same time, so it most likely would
have been late summer, but I didnt think to record when it was.

if they were iceberg-like, it would have been "great lakes". iceberg is a
commercial cultivar, i don't believe you can buy the seed freely (?). great
lakes is the non-commercial version.

He let them all go to seed and collected the seed, and tried to
plant the seeds this spring, but appears to have not kept them
we enough and didnt get any germination at all. Must ask him
if he has any seeds left, think he planted the lot. I could certainly
go to some trouble to germinate them like in the fridge etc if there are
some left.

if it was a hybrid, the seed may have been infertile, OR it could have been
a problem of another kind. it's not worth saving hybrid seed though - at
best it's not true to type (although you could get lucky & have plants which
are better than type although taht is unlikely) but they tend to have
fertility problems anyway. you want open-pollinated seed.

bolt too young, you've had soemthing from them.

So what about that 30C germination question ?

well, where i live it's not a hot climate. we get bursts of extreme heat
that last a week or so, but over summer there is plenty of time where its
well under 30 for things to germinate. our big problem this summer has been
dryness, rather than heat, & also the completely erratic nature of the
temperatures here can be a real problem.

you have to appreciate your own local weather and climate, & try to work
around that because you can't alter it. with experimenting, you'll find out
what types of things work well at your place & which things just don't ever
seem successful, and also which things you can coax into success by doing
things a little differently or at a different time of year.

i haven't worked out yet whether seasol/poo stew is a huge help to
lettuce or not, but it does seem to be anecdotally.

Havent tried that yet. Just used pelletised veg starter fertiliser
and when they grew fine, didnt bother with anything else.

blood & bone might be better. i use it a lot as my soil's pretty terrible.
manufactured fertilisers do nothing for the soil as they are water soluble
(so you don't get to keep it - any not taken by the plant immediately
leaches away & that's a problem) and are expensive.
good luck!
i still struggle with lettuce as i said, but it's getting much better & is
lots of fun when you really crack how to do something that hasn't worked out
in the past! we all have to keep learning all the time with this. plants
like silverbeet that are hopelessly easy are excellent too - but they don't
teach us anything like lettuce & your more contrary vegetables do. :-)
kylie

0tterbot wrote
Rod Speed wrote

if you plant seed direct (whether in the garden or a pot) you will have much more success too,

I didnt, I appeared to let them dry out too much.

right, regardless of where you plant them, you need to keep the seed
nicely moist until they've germinated & grown a little, naturally g

what i do with most seeds lately, is that after planting them &
whatnot, put some straw around (higher than the seed bed but not over the seeds, obviously) & lay an aluminium fly
screen over the top.
this helps keep the wind off, & provides a little shade as well. ime,

What's wrong with just a sheet of plastic to stop the soil drying out ?

Thats what worked fine with the seedling trays, I just
put them in a plastic bag and they germinated fine.

they just do much better from the protection. these i can water a bit less too. although with lettuce you still
probably want to check them 2x daily to be sure the soil is moist.

Thats one advantage with a sheet of plastic, easier to check that visually.

having said that, self-seeded lettuce thrives on all manner of
ignoring it completely, so there's that. the benefit of seed is that
only the good ones prosper. with transplants, you might just be
coddling along a dud that's never going to be a really sturdy plant.
a dud grown from seed, you just thin it out & keep only the big
boisterous ones to reach maturity.

OK, I'll collect the seeds off half the ones that
have gone to seed and let the rest self seed.

Only one batch germinated and needless to say the bloody birds got the lot in one meal.

Got bird nets now, so that wont happen again.

But the net says that they wont germinate over 30C. Not clear what that means,
whether its any time of the day over 30C or if the minimum temp is over 30C.

with lettuce in particular?

That was lettuce in general, even the ones that dont bolt in hot weather.

probably a maximum (day) average.

Yeah, I assume so too. Just wondering if anyone knew for sure.

i'd say it just means germination is very poor in hot weather.

I've since realised that I might as well just try it with seed so cheap.

if it goes over 30 for an hour it doesn't mean none of the seeds will ever germinate!! but you'd certainly want to
germinate them when it's a little cooler, or in a cooler place. also, a 35 degree day is not
necessarily unpleasant for a plant which is shaded, so there's that.

True.

also worth remembering most veg plants grow best (overall) in the
15-25 degree range, iirc, depending on the type of plant, because
it's just the way it is & they've been bred (e.g. in europe) to be
that way. local cultivars therefore have local advantage.

Yeah, I'm just talking about what to grow thru the hot summers,
obviously the problem will go away in april etc when I'm sure the
mignonettes and cos will be fine, because they were in spring.

(the cultivar australian yellow leaf, which i don't think is particularly tasty alhtough it's not bad, is definitely
better for hot weather, i found. just as an example).

OK, I'll try some of those too.

cooler areas, and often grown in shadehouses (or similar). but
they're not really a summer crop. other greens like mizuna are a
better bet.

Can you use that on sandwitches ?

of course. and it grows all year round, it's extremely easy (unlike
lettuce) and prolific. nasturtium is another good one for summer (if
you like peppery leaves).

Yes I do, I'll try some of those too.

Yeah, mate of mine had some very decent ones but he's so slack that
he doesnt even know what variety they were. He did give me some,
and gave me some tomatoes at the same time, so it most likely would
have been late summer, but I didnt think to record when it was.

if they were iceberg-like,

No they werent, they were leafy lettuces, not crispheads.
Quite vertical, but not much like my cos.

it would have been "great lakes". iceberg is a commercial cultivar, i don't believe you can buy the seed freely (?).

I've got some, got them from Bunnings, forget the
manufacturer, cant put my hand on the packet right now.

great lakes is the non-commercial version.

He let them all go to seed and collected the seed, and tried to
plant the seeds this spring, but appears to have not kept them
we enough and didnt get any germination at all. Must ask him
if he has any seeds left, think he planted the lot. I could certainly
go to some trouble to germinate them like in the fridge etc if there
are some left.

if it was a hybrid, the seed may have been infertile, OR it could
have been a problem of another kind. it's not worth saving hybrid
seed though - at best it's not true to type (although you could get
lucky & have plants which are better than type although taht is
unlikely) but they tend to have fertility problems anyway. you want
open-pollinated seed.

bolt too young, you've had soemthing from them.

So what about that 30C germination question ?

well, where i live it's not a hot climate. we get bursts of extreme
heat that last a week or so, but over summer there is plenty of time
where its well under 30 for things to germinate. our big problem this
summer has been dryness, rather than heat, & also the completely
erratic nature of the temperatures here can be a real problem.

you have to appreciate your own local weather and climate, & try to
work around that because you can't alter it. with experimenting,
you'll find out what types of things work well at your place & which
things just don't ever seem successful, and also which things you can
coax into success by doing things a little differently or at a
different time of year.

Yeah, I'll try it temperature wise, its unlikely that they mean
that any temp over 30C for any time is the problem.

i haven't worked out yet whether seasol/poo stew is a huge help to
lettuce or not, but it does seem to be anecdotally.

Havent tried that yet. Just used pelletised veg starter fertiliser
and when they grew fine, didnt bother with anything else.

blood & bone might be better. i use it a lot as my soil's pretty terrible.

Mine is very decent.

manufactured fertilisers do nothing for the soil as they
are water soluble (so you don't get to keep it - any not taken by the
plant immediately leaches away & that's a problem) and are expensive.
good luck!

i still struggle with lettuce as i said, but it's getting much better
& is lots of fun when you really crack how to do something that
hasn't worked out in the past!

Yeah, thats the main reason I am doing it, the cost of the commercial
stuff isnt the reason, its just more convenient to grab some leaves
as required. I always eat the end off a freshly baked loaf of bread
with salami and relish and lettuce in an open sandwitch and I do
a fresh loaf every 4 days literally.

we all have to keep learning all the time with this. plants like silverbeet that are hopelessly easy are excellent
too - but they don't teach us anything like lettuce & your
more contrary vegetables do. :-) kylie

True.