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Old 16-11-2004, 08:05 PM
dalecochoy
 
Posts: n/a
Default [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.

I wonder how many other readers have problems with tree trimmers butchering trees near power lines as I seem to every 3-4 years.
The last time the trimmers came through our area my wife and I and a few neighbors were aghast at the trees we saw trimmed as they came our way. Ruined pines/spruce and slingshotted deciduous trees.
As they got near our house my neighbors caved in but I told them no way they'd trim my trees like that.( BTW, I DO have a large pin oak that is right next to lines). A few days later they sent a local power company guy to my house to "talk", and it turned out he lived a few blocks away. He handed me a thick stack of Shigo's notes and figured he'd impressed me. I took him back to my garden and showed him about 200 bonsai in pots and then we started to talk seriously :) We actually got along ok. He had his crew come in a couple days and he stayed with them while we discussed the tree as they trimmed it. They did, actually, a pretty nice job. Certainly better than all my neighbors! He was shocked that I let them take down an ash tree coming up directly under lines ( that I didn't want anyway) and that I ASKED him to trim my Sunburst Locust that was nearing the lines. They rounded it very nicely and I could now spray the damn caterpillars every year w/ no problems.
OK, now 4 years later, enter ASPLUNDH, the new butcherers of the streets coming my way ( last time it was a different company that had the contract) . As they neared my neighborhood they sent out the forward guy . Again I told them no way unless I'm here. A week or so later they came, i was home, I watched them "slingshot" my neighbors and said no way when they said they'd have to take off most of the tree because NOW they go 12 feet from lines and no longer Round out" trimming but either remove, cut side off or "y" cut. He said I'd get a letter about what day someone would be here to do the job and they'd bring cops if need be!!!
I got a letter the other day, no date mentioned, just "within 30 days". OK, I'm here all day anyway. It included a letter from the power companys ARBOREST along with pics of their accepted method of butchering now and an explanation of how the new guidelines are due to RESEARCH explaining that Topping, stubbing or ROUNDING OVER or shaping is no longer a recommended way to do trimming because it , quote, ""eliminates foliage and buds containing next years growth. This stress to the tree stimulates the production of vigorous, crowded, poorly tapered and weakly attached shoots called water-sprouts. Since the use of energy has been redistributed within the tree, it is less resistant to pest problems and prone to decay. The rapid growth is deceiving and is not an indication of good health. Topping destroys the natural structure of the tree and makes it more susceptible to breakage""
Now, again they site Shigo as their back-up and the practices accepted by the American National Standards Institute A300-1995 Standard Practices for Tree Care Operations, The International Society of Arborculture, The National Arborists Association, The American Association of Nurserymen, and the Ohio Department of Natural Resources State Urban Foresters.
Now, I look at their "Acceptable" drawings of how to trim, and I see local large trees cut down to the trunk in the center with untouched long "Y" branches maybe 20-30 feet on either side, or complete sides removed with a half-"Y" side extending way out and I can almost hear these trees cracking in the wind with owners being forced to spend thousands on their removal when a windstorm tears them in half!
Since when does "rounding" a tree while trimming foliage ""increase the chances of decay and disease and significantly decrease the service reliability and tree health"" ??
This group seems more non-tolerating to discussion than the last and it appears the tree trimming company is wanting to do less work for their multi-million dollar contract.
Have others out there had good luck getting these people to "trim nice" when on their property or is this becoming more of a "no questions asked" deal anymore.
I'm wondering if a "no" when they come and forcing them to bring police the third trip would actually get them to "trim nice" to avoid any further hassle or return trip.
Regards,
Dale "Play By The Rules" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

  #2   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 08:29 PM
Scalf, Thad
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dale,

I see that I am not the only one that has seen the butchery of ASPLUDH. There WERE some very beautiful trees on my drive to and from work that are now either trunks or half y's that are ready to fall into the nearby parking lot/Apartment complex. I have also seen them leave a 30 foot tree with 1 branch at the very top, and just skin he rest of the tree. It's really is horrendous. I have always wondered in the guy in the bucket with a chain saw on the end of a 15 foot pole is an educated arborist, who knows the impact of the branches he chooses to cut, or is just a Redneck with a chainsaw that whacks on trees all day. I tend to think the later is true, otherwise there wouldn't be nearly as many butchered, sick, or dead trees lining the streets of Suburbia.

I must say that I am fortunate not to have any such trees in my yard. Others I know do not have that luxury. Maybe there's a reason their name ends in "DuuuuH"...

Thanks,

Thad
USDA Zone 6b

-----Original Message-----
From: dalecochoy ]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:00 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.


I wonder how many other readers have problems with tree trimmers butchering trees near power lines as I seem to every 3-4 years.
The last time the trimmers came through our area my wife and I and a few neighbors were aghast at the trees we saw trimmed as they came our way. Ruined pines/spruce and slingshotted deciduous trees.
As they got near our house my neighbors caved in but I told them no way they'd trim my trees like that.( BTW, I DO have a large pin oak that is right next to lines). A few days later they sent a local power company guy to my house to "talk", and it turned out he lived a few blocks away. He handed me a thick stack of Shigo's notes and figured he'd impressed me. I took him back to my garden and showed him about 200 bonsai in pots and then we started to talk seriously :) We actually got along ok. He had his crew come in a couple days and he stayed with them while we discussed the tree as they trimmed it. They did, actually, a pretty nice job. Certainly better than all my neighbors! He was shocked that I let them take down an ash tree coming up directly under lines ( that I didn't want anyway) and that I ASKED him to trim my Sunburst Locust that was nearing the lines. They rounded it very nicely and I could now spray the damn caterpillars every year w/ no problems.
OK, now 4 years later, enter ASPLUNDH, the new butcherers of the streets coming my way ( last time it was a different company that had the contract) . As they neared my neighborhood they sent out the forward guy . Again I told them no way unless I'm here. A week or so later they came, i was home, I watched them "slingshot" my neighbors and said no way when they said they'd have to take off most of the tree because NOW they go 12 feet from lines and no longer Round out" trimming but either remove, cut side off or "y" cut. He said I'd get a letter about what day someone would be here to do the job and they'd bring cops if need be!!!
I got a letter the other day, no date mentioned, just "within 30 days". OK, I'm here all day anyway. It included a letter from the power companys ARBOREST along with pics of their accepted method of butchering now and an explanation of how the new guidelines are due to RESEARCH explaining that Topping, stubbing or ROUNDING OVER or shaping is no longer a recommended way to do trimming because it , quote, ""eliminates foliage and buds containing next years growth. This stress to the tree stimulates the production of vigorous, crowded, poorly tapered and weakly attached shoots called water-sprouts. Since the use of energy has been redistributed within the tree, it is less resistant to pest problems and prone to decay. The rapid growth is deceiving and is not an indication of good health. Topping destroys the natural structure of the tree and makes it more susceptible to breakage""
Now, again they site Shigo as their back-up and the practices accepted by the American National Standards Institute A300-1995 Standard Practices for Tree Care Operations, The International Society of Arborculture, The National Arborists Association, The American Association of Nurserymen, and the Ohio Department of Natural Resources State Urban Foresters.
Now, I look at their "Acceptable" drawings of how to trim, and I see local large trees cut down to the trunk in the center with untouched long "Y" branches maybe 20-30 feet on either side, or complete sides removed with a half-"Y" side extending way out and I can almost hear these trees cracking in the wind with owners being forced to spend thousands on their removal when a windstorm tears them in half!
Since when does "rounding" a tree while trimming foliage ""increase the chances of decay and disease and significantly decrease the service reliability and tree health"" ??
This group seems more non-tolerating to discussion than the last and it appears the tree trimming company is wanting to do less work for their multi-million dollar contract.
Have others out there had good luck getting these people to "trim nice" when on their property or is this becoming more of a "no questions asked" deal anymore.
I'm wondering if a "no" when they come and forcing them to bring police the third trip would actually get them to "trim nice" to avoid any further hassle or return trip.
Regards,
Dale "Play By The Rules" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

  #3   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 08:29 PM
Scalf, Thad
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dale,

I see that I am not the only one that has seen the butchery of ASPLUDH. There WERE some very beautiful trees on my drive to and from work that are now either trunks or half y's that are ready to fall into the nearby parking lot/Apartment complex. I have also seen them leave a 30 foot tree with 1 branch at the very top, and just skin he rest of the tree. It's really is horrendous. I have always wondered in the guy in the bucket with a chain saw on the end of a 15 foot pole is an educated arborist, who knows the impact of the branches he chooses to cut, or is just a Redneck with a chainsaw that whacks on trees all day. I tend to think the later is true, otherwise there wouldn't be nearly as many butchered, sick, or dead trees lining the streets of Suburbia.

I must say that I am fortunate not to have any such trees in my yard. Others I know do not have that luxury. Maybe there's a reason their name ends in "DuuuuH"...

Thanks,

Thad
USDA Zone 6b

-----Original Message-----
From: dalecochoy ]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:00 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.


I wonder how many other readers have problems with tree trimmers butchering trees near power lines as I seem to every 3-4 years.
The last time the trimmers came through our area my wife and I and a few neighbors were aghast at the trees we saw trimmed as they came our way. Ruined pines/spruce and slingshotted deciduous trees.
As they got near our house my neighbors caved in but I told them no way they'd trim my trees like that.( BTW, I DO have a large pin oak that is right next to lines). A few days later they sent a local power company guy to my house to "talk", and it turned out he lived a few blocks away. He handed me a thick stack of Shigo's notes and figured he'd impressed me. I took him back to my garden and showed him about 200 bonsai in pots and then we started to talk seriously :) We actually got along ok. He had his crew come in a couple days and he stayed with them while we discussed the tree as they trimmed it. They did, actually, a pretty nice job. Certainly better than all my neighbors! He was shocked that I let them take down an ash tree coming up directly under lines ( that I didn't want anyway) and that I ASKED him to trim my Sunburst Locust that was nearing the lines. They rounded it very nicely and I could now spray the damn caterpillars every year w/ no problems.
OK, now 4 years later, enter ASPLUNDH, the new butcherers of the streets coming my way ( last time it was a different company that had the contract) . As they neared my neighborhood they sent out the forward guy . Again I told them no way unless I'm here. A week or so later they came, i was home, I watched them "slingshot" my neighbors and said no way when they said they'd have to take off most of the tree because NOW they go 12 feet from lines and no longer Round out" trimming but either remove, cut side off or "y" cut. He said I'd get a letter about what day someone would be here to do the job and they'd bring cops if need be!!!
I got a letter the other day, no date mentioned, just "within 30 days". OK, I'm here all day anyway. It included a letter from the power companys ARBOREST along with pics of their accepted method of butchering now and an explanation of how the new guidelines are due to RESEARCH explaining that Topping, stubbing or ROUNDING OVER or shaping is no longer a recommended way to do trimming because it , quote, ""eliminates foliage and buds containing next years growth. This stress to the tree stimulates the production of vigorous, crowded, poorly tapered and weakly attached shoots called water-sprouts. Since the use of energy has been redistributed within the tree, it is less resistant to pest problems and prone to decay. The rapid growth is deceiving and is not an indication of good health. Topping destroys the natural structure of the tree and makes it more susceptible to breakage""
Now, again they site Shigo as their back-up and the practices accepted by the American National Standards Institute A300-1995 Standard Practices for Tree Care Operations, The International Society of Arborculture, The National Arborists Association, The American Association of Nurserymen, and the Ohio Department of Natural Resources State Urban Foresters.
Now, I look at their "Acceptable" drawings of how to trim, and I see local large trees cut down to the trunk in the center with untouched long "Y" branches maybe 20-30 feet on either side, or complete sides removed with a half-"Y" side extending way out and I can almost hear these trees cracking in the wind with owners being forced to spend thousands on their removal when a windstorm tears them in half!
Since when does "rounding" a tree while trimming foliage ""increase the chances of decay and disease and significantly decrease the service reliability and tree health"" ??
This group seems more non-tolerating to discussion than the last and it appears the tree trimming company is wanting to do less work for their multi-million dollar contract.
Have others out there had good luck getting these people to "trim nice" when on their property or is this becoming more of a "no questions asked" deal anymore.
I'm wondering if a "no" when they come and forcing them to bring police the third trip would actually get them to "trim nice" to avoid any further hassle or return trip.
Regards,
Dale "Play By The Rules" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

  #4   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 08:52 PM
Marty Haber
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Good story, Dale. Now my turn.
Last year my next-door neighbor called in a tree man to remove some trees
which abutted my property. It seems that the easiest way for the men to get
to those trees was across my front lawn! They rolled their cherry picker
right over two of my shrubs while I was taking a picture of their
activities. To add insult to injury, they tossed their coffee containers
and coke bottles on my lawn when they left.
When I called the manager, his excuse was that he had no control over his
crews. By his description, they were "wild men". He did send me $100 to
cover my damages, but, in retrospect, I'm sorry I took it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "dalecochoy"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 2:00 PM
Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #5   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 08:52 PM
Marty Haber
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Good story, Dale. Now my turn.
Last year my next-door neighbor called in a tree man to remove some trees
which abutted my property. It seems that the easiest way for the men to get
to those trees was across my front lawn! They rolled their cherry picker
right over two of my shrubs while I was taking a picture of their
activities. To add insult to injury, they tossed their coffee containers
and coke bottles on my lawn when they left.
When I called the manager, his excuse was that he had no control over his
crews. By his description, they were "wild men". He did send me $100 to
cover my damages, but, in retrospect, I'm sorry I took it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "dalecochoy"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 2:00 PM
Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


  #6   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 08:53 PM
kevin bailey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Dale,

Different country so my experiences are not 100% relevant to you. I
would observe that if anyone can change their minds it will be you.
Educated explanation and the stock that you can show them must be a huge
advantage.

A word in defence of tree surgeons, if I may. I've met loads of them and
one is a member at our club. None of these are the butchers that they
are often painted as. A great many of them object to the methods that
they are forced to employ as much as we do. It's the utility companies
regulations and cost cutting that force these timesaving measures.

OTOH A friend had his entire collection damaged by a careless crew who
cut and dropped major tree limbs, without a thought, into his back
garden.

At least you can be there all the time to ensure that nothing is done
that you don't want doing.

Best of luck

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of dalecochoy
Sent: 16 November 2004 19:00
To:
Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.

I wonder how many other readers have problems with tree trimmers
butchering trees near power lines as I seem to every 3-4 years.
The last time the trimmers came through our area my wife and I and a few
neighbors were aghast at the trees we saw trimmed as they came our way.
Ruined pines/spruce and slingshotted deciduous trees.
As they got near our house my neighbors caved in but I told them no way
they'd trim my trees like that.( BTW, I DO have a large pin oak that is
right next to lines). A few days later they sent a local power company
guy to my house to "talk", and it turned out he lived a few blocks away.
He handed me a thick stack of Shigo's notes and figured he'd impressed
me. I took him back to my garden and showed him about 200 bonsai in pots
and then we started to talk seriously :) We actually got along ok. He
had his crew come in a couple days and he stayed with them while we
discussed the tree as they trimmed it. They did, actually, a pretty nice
job. Certainly better than all my neighbors! He was shocked that I let
them take down an ash tree coming up directly under lines ( that I
didn't want anyway) and that I ASKED him to trim my Sunburst Locust that
was nearing the lines. They rounded it very nicely and I could now spray
the damn caterpillars every year w/ no problems.
OK, now 4 years later, enter ASPLUNDH, the new butcherers of the streets
coming my way ( last time it was a different company that had the
contract) . As they neared my neighborhood they sent out the forward guy
.. Again I told them no way unless I'm here. A week or so later they
came, i was home, I watched them "slingshot" my neighbors and said no
way when they said they'd have to take off most of the tree because NOW
they go 12 feet from lines and no longer Round out" trimming but either
remove, cut side off or "y" cut. He said I'd get a letter about what day
someone would be here to do the job and they'd bring cops if need be!!!
I got a letter the other day, no date mentioned, just "within 30 days".
OK, I'm here all day anyway. It included a letter from the power
companys ARBOREST along with pics of their accepted method of butchering
now and an explanation of how the new guidelines are due to RESEARCH
explaining that Topping, stubbing or ROUNDING OVER or shaping is no
longer a recommended way to do trimming because it , quote,
""eliminates foliage and buds containing next years growth. This stress
to the tree stimulates the production of vigorous, crowded, poorly
tapered and weakly attached shoots called water-sprouts. Since the use
of energy has been redistributed within the tree, it is less resistant
to pest problems and prone to decay. The rapid growth is deceiving and
is not an indication of good health. Topping destroys the natural
structure of the tree and makes it more susceptible to breakage""
Now, again they site Shigo as their back-up and the practices accepted
by the American National Standards Institute A300-1995 Standard
Practices for Tree Care Operations, The International Society of
Arborculture, The National Arborists Association, The American
Association of Nurserymen, and the Ohio Department of Natural Resources
State Urban Foresters.
Now, I look at their "Acceptable" drawings of how to trim, and I see
local large trees cut down to the trunk in the center with untouched
long "Y" branches maybe 20-30 feet on either side, or complete sides
removed with a half-"Y" side extending way out and I can almost hear
these trees cracking in the wind with owners being forced to spend
thousands on their removal when a windstorm tears them in half!
Since when does "rounding" a tree while trimming foliage ""increase the
chances of decay and disease and significantly decrease the service
reliability and tree health"" ??
This group seems more non-tolerating to discussion than the last and
it appears the tree trimming company is wanting to do less work for
their multi-million dollar contract.
Have others out there had good luck getting these people to "trim nice"
when on their property or is this becoming more of a "no questions
asked" deal anymore.
I'm wondering if a "no" when they come and forcing them to bring police
the third trip would actually get them to "trim nice" to avoid any
further hassle or return trip.
Regards,
Dale "Play By The Rules" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** **********************
********
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/

--
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

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************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #7   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 08:53 PM
kevin bailey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Dale,

Different country so my experiences are not 100% relevant to you. I
would observe that if anyone can change their minds it will be you.
Educated explanation and the stock that you can show them must be a huge
advantage.

A word in defence of tree surgeons, if I may. I've met loads of them and
one is a member at our club. None of these are the butchers that they
are often painted as. A great many of them object to the methods that
they are forced to employ as much as we do. It's the utility companies
regulations and cost cutting that force these timesaving measures.

OTOH A friend had his entire collection damaged by a careless crew who
cut and dropped major tree limbs, without a thought, into his back
garden.

At least you can be there all the time to ensure that nothing is done
that you don't want doing.

Best of luck

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of dalecochoy
Sent: 16 November 2004 19:00
To:
Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.

I wonder how many other readers have problems with tree trimmers
butchering trees near power lines as I seem to every 3-4 years.
The last time the trimmers came through our area my wife and I and a few
neighbors were aghast at the trees we saw trimmed as they came our way.
Ruined pines/spruce and slingshotted deciduous trees.
As they got near our house my neighbors caved in but I told them no way
they'd trim my trees like that.( BTW, I DO have a large pin oak that is
right next to lines). A few days later they sent a local power company
guy to my house to "talk", and it turned out he lived a few blocks away.
He handed me a thick stack of Shigo's notes and figured he'd impressed
me. I took him back to my garden and showed him about 200 bonsai in pots
and then we started to talk seriously :) We actually got along ok. He
had his crew come in a couple days and he stayed with them while we
discussed the tree as they trimmed it. They did, actually, a pretty nice
job. Certainly better than all my neighbors! He was shocked that I let
them take down an ash tree coming up directly under lines ( that I
didn't want anyway) and that I ASKED him to trim my Sunburst Locust that
was nearing the lines. They rounded it very nicely and I could now spray
the damn caterpillars every year w/ no problems.
OK, now 4 years later, enter ASPLUNDH, the new butcherers of the streets
coming my way ( last time it was a different company that had the
contract) . As they neared my neighborhood they sent out the forward guy
.. Again I told them no way unless I'm here. A week or so later they
came, i was home, I watched them "slingshot" my neighbors and said no
way when they said they'd have to take off most of the tree because NOW
they go 12 feet from lines and no longer Round out" trimming but either
remove, cut side off or "y" cut. He said I'd get a letter about what day
someone would be here to do the job and they'd bring cops if need be!!!
I got a letter the other day, no date mentioned, just "within 30 days".
OK, I'm here all day anyway. It included a letter from the power
companys ARBOREST along with pics of their accepted method of butchering
now and an explanation of how the new guidelines are due to RESEARCH
explaining that Topping, stubbing or ROUNDING OVER or shaping is no
longer a recommended way to do trimming because it , quote,
""eliminates foliage and buds containing next years growth. This stress
to the tree stimulates the production of vigorous, crowded, poorly
tapered and weakly attached shoots called water-sprouts. Since the use
of energy has been redistributed within the tree, it is less resistant
to pest problems and prone to decay. The rapid growth is deceiving and
is not an indication of good health. Topping destroys the natural
structure of the tree and makes it more susceptible to breakage""
Now, again they site Shigo as their back-up and the practices accepted
by the American National Standards Institute A300-1995 Standard
Practices for Tree Care Operations, The International Society of
Arborculture, The National Arborists Association, The American
Association of Nurserymen, and the Ohio Department of Natural Resources
State Urban Foresters.
Now, I look at their "Acceptable" drawings of how to trim, and I see
local large trees cut down to the trunk in the center with untouched
long "Y" branches maybe 20-30 feet on either side, or complete sides
removed with a half-"Y" side extending way out and I can almost hear
these trees cracking in the wind with owners being forced to spend
thousands on their removal when a windstorm tears them in half!
Since when does "rounding" a tree while trimming foliage ""increase the
chances of decay and disease and significantly decrease the service
reliability and tree health"" ??
This group seems more non-tolerating to discussion than the last and
it appears the tree trimming company is wanting to do less work for
their multi-million dollar contract.
Have others out there had good luck getting these people to "trim nice"
when on their property or is this becoming more of a "no questions
asked" deal anymore.
I'm wondering if a "no" when they come and forcing them to bring police
the third trip would actually get them to "trim nice" to avoid any
further hassle or return trip.
Regards,
Dale "Play By The Rules" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

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  #8   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 09:37 PM
dalecochoy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin bailey" Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time
again.


A word in defence of tree surgeons, if I may. I've met loads of them and
one is a member at our club. None of these are the butchers that they
are often painted as. A great many of them object to the methods that
they are forced to employ as much as we do. It's the utility companies
regulations and cost cutting that force these timesaving measures.


I agree. I have a a guy who has trimmed/removed all my trees for years in
two homes. He does what I tell him and does a good job.
Also, the guy I mentioned 3-4 years ago who did me a good job after we
talked did know how to trim....and did it nice....after an "issue" was made
of it. I think we were both satisfied in the outcome.
I dislike the lazy method of chopping and then trying to back it up with
crappy logic and a letter signed by an "Arborist". ( BTW, I wonder how many
arborists have actually trimmed trees?)

OTOH A friend had his entire collection damaged by a careless crew who
cut and dropped major tree limbs, without a thought, into his back
garden.


That sounds like a law suit to me? No different than dropping one on a car,
garage, lawn furniture, deck or porch? Eh? It's all personal property.
That's why they are insured and bonded.

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  #9   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 09:37 PM
dalecochoy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin bailey" Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time
again.


A word in defence of tree surgeons, if I may. I've met loads of them and
one is a member at our club. None of these are the butchers that they
are often painted as. A great many of them object to the methods that
they are forced to employ as much as we do. It's the utility companies
regulations and cost cutting that force these timesaving measures.


I agree. I have a a guy who has trimmed/removed all my trees for years in
two homes. He does what I tell him and does a good job.
Also, the guy I mentioned 3-4 years ago who did me a good job after we
talked did know how to trim....and did it nice....after an "issue" was made
of it. I think we were both satisfied in the outcome.
I dislike the lazy method of chopping and then trying to back it up with
crappy logic and a letter signed by an "Arborist". ( BTW, I wonder how many
arborists have actually trimmed trees?)

OTOH A friend had his entire collection damaged by a careless crew who
cut and dropped major tree limbs, without a thought, into his back
garden.


That sounds like a law suit to me? No different than dropping one on a car,
garage, lawn furniture, deck or porch? Eh? It's all personal property.
That's why they are insured and bonded.

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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  #10   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 10:22 PM
Jim Lewis
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 16 Nov 2004 at 15:26, dalecochoy wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin bailey" Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time
again.


A word in defence of tree surgeons,


And then, there are the highway landscapers who, after a road is
built, and power lines are run along its edge (better to use
right-of-way for multiple purposes, yes?) then come along and
plant sycamore, sweetgum and red maple right underneath the
lines to "beautify" the road.

The lines are 20 feet above the roadside. A sycamore can grow
13 feet in its first year down here, sweetgum 10 feet, and red
maple eight.

Sounds like "make work" for the Future Arborists Resource Team
(FART). ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - When we see
land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it
with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County Almanac

All apply ;-)

************************************************** ******************************
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  #11   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2004, 10:22 PM
Jim Lewis
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 16 Nov 2004 at 15:26, dalecochoy wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin bailey" Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time
again.


A word in defence of tree surgeons,


And then, there are the highway landscapers who, after a road is
built, and power lines are run along its edge (better to use
right-of-way for multiple purposes, yes?) then come along and
plant sycamore, sweetgum and red maple right underneath the
lines to "beautify" the road.

The lines are 20 feet above the roadside. A sycamore can grow
13 feet in its first year down here, sweetgum 10 feet, and red
maple eight.

Sounds like "make work" for the Future Arborists Resource Team
(FART). ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - When we see
land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it
with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County Almanac

All apply ;-)

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #12   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2004, 04:03 AM
Roger Snipes
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dale,

As someone who oversaw the power line reclearing division of a contractor
here for a number of years, I have heard these very complaints many times.
One thing people need to remember is that the power companies don't care
what the trees that are in or near their right of way look like. They have
one main priority here -- keep the lines safe from damage by nearby trees to
avoid interruption of service to you and your neighbors. They want to do
this as inexpensively as possible of course, any expense they have will
ultimately be passed on to you and the rest of the ratepayers.

Many years ago the round-over trimming method was the standard approved
pruning practice when reclearing lines in urban areas. However when a tree
is rounded over as you describe, it subsequently puts out a mass of wild
growth (think trunk chop or drastic pruning in your bonsai), which soon is
back into the power lines, and is weakly attached to the tree and prone to
breaking off.

The latest accepted standard pruning practices for line clearing are to V
out the center of the tree leaving the outside untouched, or trim half of
the tree away, leaving the other half untouched, depending on the location
of the lines in relation to the tree. While this makes the tree look
terrible, it is actually much healthier for the tree, and it avoids
stimulating the tree to shoot out wild uncontrolled growth all over. The
remaining apically dominant growing branches that are left do their thing
and keep growing, regrowth back towards the lines is minimized and the power
company can go longer between trimming jobs, thereby saving money.

They are really doing what we do with our bonsai, controlling and directing
growth with pruning -- without the artistic considerations of course. :-)

I agree that the trees look bad when the contractor is done trimming, but
think about how you would feel this January, its 10 below zero -- one of
your neighbors whined enough that the tree trimmers left some branches that
they shouldn't have, and one of those branches comes down on the power line
and takes it out in the middle of the night. You and your neighbors are all
freezing in the dark without power until the utility gets a crew out to
repair the damage. I'll bet that the esthetics of the trimming job aren't
so important to everyone right about then.

Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane Wa. Zone 5, or maybe 6, depending on who you believe.

Standard disclaimer: I have no monetary interest in any power companies,
and I am in full agreement that the reclearing jobs look like crap.

----- Original Message -----
From: "dalecochoy"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 11:00 AM
Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.


I wonder how many other readers have problems with tree trimmers butchering
trees near power lines as I seem to every 3-4 years.
....snip...
I'm wondering if a "no" when they come and forcing them to bring police the
third trip would actually get them to "trim nice" to avoid any further
hassle or return trip.
Regards,
Dale "Play By The Rules" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #13   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2004, 04:57 AM
Alan Walker
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Having gone nearly a week without power after a January
ice storm a few years ago, I appreciate the need to prune trees
away from power lines. And Asplundh is all over the place this
month pruning away. They are doing a better job the last few
years than they used to do. My arborist, who is an honest to god
tree freak, landed a contract to train them in proper pruning
techniques. Yes, they still leave trees looking aesthetically
perverse, pretty much like Roger describes, but they now respect
the branch collars and such, leaving the trees with a much better
chance of thriving afterwards.
The key to keeping them from butchering your own trees is
to have it done at your own expense before they get to your
neighborhood. You don't have to do this every year; probably once
every ten years will do. That way you can choose an arborist who
is accountable to you and your tastes.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Snipes

Dale,
As someone who oversaw the power line reclearing division of a
contractor here for a number of years, I have heard these very
complaints many times.
One thing people need to remember is that the power companies
don't care what the trees that are in or near their right of way
look like. They have one main priority here -- keep the lines
safe from damage by nearby trees to avoid interruption of service
to you and your neighbors. They want to do this as inexpensively
as possible of course, any expense they have will ultimately be
passed on to you and the rest of the ratepayers.

Many years ago the round-over trimming method was the standard
approved pruning practice when reclearing lines in urban areas.
However when a tree is rounded over as you describe, it
subsequently puts out a mass of wild growth (think trunk chop or
drastic pruning in your bonsai), which soon is back into the
power lines, and is weakly attached to the tree and prone to
breaking off.

The latest accepted standard pruning practices for line clearing
are to V
out the center of the tree leaving the outside untouched, or trim
half of
the tree away, leaving the other half untouched, depending on the
location of the lines in relation to the tree. While this makes
the tree look
terrible, it is actually much healthier for the tree, and it
avoids
stimulating the tree to shoot out wild uncontrolled growth all
over. The
remaining apically dominant growing branches that are left do
their thing
and keep growing, regrowth back towards the lines is minimized
and the power company can go longer between trimming jobs,
thereby saving money.

They are really doing what we do with our bonsai, controlling and
directing growth with pruning -- without the artistic
considerations of course. :-)

I agree that the trees look bad when the contractor is done
trimming, but
think about how you would feel this January, its 10 below zero --
one of
your neighbors whined enough that the tree trimmers left some
branches that they shouldn't have, and one of those branches
comes down on the power line and takes it out in the middle of
the night. You and your neighbors are all freezing in the dark
without power until the utility gets a crew out to repair the
damage. I'll bet that the esthetics of the trimming job aren't
so important to everyone right about then.
Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane Wa. Zone 5, or maybe 6, depending on who you believe.

Standard disclaimer: I have no monetary interest in any power
companies, and I am in full agreement that the reclearing jobs
look like crap.

----- Original Message -----
From: "dalecochoy"

I wonder how many other readers have problems with tree trimmers
butchering trees near power lines as I seem to every 3-4 years.
....snip... I'm wondering if a "no" when they come and forcing
them to bring police the third trip would actually get them to
"trim nice" to avoid any further hassle or return trip.
Regards,
Dale "Play By The Rules" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

  #14   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2004, 04:57 AM
Alan Walker
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Having gone nearly a week without power after a January
ice storm a few years ago, I appreciate the need to prune trees
away from power lines. And Asplundh is all over the place this
month pruning away. They are doing a better job the last few
years than they used to do. My arborist, who is an honest to god
tree freak, landed a contract to train them in proper pruning
techniques. Yes, they still leave trees looking aesthetically
perverse, pretty much like Roger describes, but they now respect
the branch collars and such, leaving the trees with a much better
chance of thriving afterwards.
The key to keeping them from butchering your own trees is
to have it done at your own expense before they get to your
neighborhood. You don't have to do this every year; probably once
every ten years will do. That way you can choose an arborist who
is accountable to you and your tastes.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Snipes

Dale,
As someone who oversaw the power line reclearing division of a
contractor here for a number of years, I have heard these very
complaints many times.
One thing people need to remember is that the power companies
don't care what the trees that are in or near their right of way
look like. They have one main priority here -- keep the lines
safe from damage by nearby trees to avoid interruption of service
to you and your neighbors. They want to do this as inexpensively
as possible of course, any expense they have will ultimately be
passed on to you and the rest of the ratepayers.

Many years ago the round-over trimming method was the standard
approved pruning practice when reclearing lines in urban areas.
However when a tree is rounded over as you describe, it
subsequently puts out a mass of wild growth (think trunk chop or
drastic pruning in your bonsai), which soon is back into the
power lines, and is weakly attached to the tree and prone to
breaking off.

The latest accepted standard pruning practices for line clearing
are to V
out the center of the tree leaving the outside untouched, or trim
half of
the tree away, leaving the other half untouched, depending on the
location of the lines in relation to the tree. While this makes
the tree look
terrible, it is actually much healthier for the tree, and it
avoids
stimulating the tree to shoot out wild uncontrolled growth all
over. The
remaining apically dominant growing branches that are left do
their thing
and keep growing, regrowth back towards the lines is minimized
and the power company can go longer between trimming jobs,
thereby saving money.

They are really doing what we do with our bonsai, controlling and
directing growth with pruning -- without the artistic
considerations of course. :-)

I agree that the trees look bad when the contractor is done
trimming, but
think about how you would feel this January, its 10 below zero --
one of
your neighbors whined enough that the tree trimmers left some
branches that they shouldn't have, and one of those branches
comes down on the power line and takes it out in the middle of
the night. You and your neighbors are all freezing in the dark
without power until the utility gets a crew out to repair the
damage. I'll bet that the esthetics of the trimming job aren't
so important to everyone right about then.
Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane Wa. Zone 5, or maybe 6, depending on who you believe.

Standard disclaimer: I have no monetary interest in any power
companies, and I am in full agreement that the reclearing jobs
look like crap.

----- Original Message -----
From: "dalecochoy"

I wonder how many other readers have problems with tree trimmers
butchering trees near power lines as I seem to every 3-4 years.
....snip... I'm wondering if a "no" when they come and forcing
them to bring police the third trip would actually get them to
"trim nice" to avoid any further hassle or return trip.
Regards,
Dale "Play By The Rules" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

  #15   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2004, 05:43 AM
Roger Snipes
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There are some potential problems with having your trees that are in the
power line right-of-way pruned by your own arborist. One is that your
arborist may end up working close to the power lines, which is dangerous --
especially if they aren't properly trained, and the utilities, as well as
state industrial insurance departments, generally discourage such things.
Another consideration is that if your contractor doesn't trim your trees
near the lines to the utilities specifications, their contractors will just
trim the trees again anyway when they come through the area. At least that
is what would happen here. Some utilities may be more lax.

One bright spot -- as Alan notes, most of the utilities are training their
contractors in proper pruning practices these days, so even if they leave
the trees looking bad, at least their health is maintained.

Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane Wa. Zone 5, or maybe 6, depending on who you believe.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Walker"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 7:48 PM
Subject: [IBC] It's Power Line tree trimming time again.


Having gone nearly a week without power after a January
ice storm a few years ago, I appreciate the need to prune trees
away from power lines. And Asplundh is all over the place this
month pruning away. They are doing a better job the last few
years than they used to do. My arborist, who is an honest to god
tree freak, landed a contract to train them in proper pruning
techniques. Yes, they still leave trees looking aesthetically
perverse, pretty much like Roger describes, but they now respect
the branch collars and such, leaving the trees with a much better
chance of thriving afterwards.
The key to keeping them from butchering your own trees is
to have it done at your own expense before they get to your
neighborhood. You don't have to do this every year; probably once
every ten years will do. That way you can choose an arborist who
is accountable to you and your tastes.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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