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Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?



 
 
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  #1  
Old 31-08-2006, 08:52 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 8
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

Do they?
Particularly can Nerium oleander toxins be absorbed from vegetables and
be stored in their fruits/leaves?
Thanks in advance
Jon
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  #2  
Old 31-08-2006, 11:49 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 2
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?


"Jon ChicKen$ M@ster" wrote in message
...
Do they?
Particularly can Nerium oleander toxins be absorbed from vegetables and be
stored in their fruits/leaves?
Thanks in advance
Jon


The plants are absorbing toxins - plain sample are pesticides which remain
in plants and finish in our body, and then start gambling with our health,
some win many lose..


  #3  
Old 01-09-2006, 12:19 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 8
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

Powerless Agronomist wrote:

The plants are absorbing toxins - plain sample are pesticides which remain
in plants and finish in our body, and then start gambling with our health,
some win many lose..


Yes I know, but pesticides enter into the plants because of phloem
allows some of them (some active matters) to move through its vessels
(to be selectively translocated through its vessels), others cannot be
translocateed and stop on the plant surface and/or in the parenchymatic
cells beside it.

I need to know if (every, or some) plant phloem allows Nerium oleander
toxin to be translocated through its vessels as easily as some
pesticides, so that this toxin could be stored in its edible tissues and
damage our health.
Thanks, bye,
Jon
  #4  
Old 01-09-2006, 03:24 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 42
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

Came in late on this but for some reason you think that Nerium oleander
toxins (organic compounds) have migrated to you soil and that it
persists there (like poly-chlorinate biphenyls) long enough to be picked
up by plants and actively transported across cell membranes. The phloem,
as you must know, basically is the water pipe for plants. Other than
water, larger molecules (nutrients) have to be selected.

The real test would be to grow some veggies with oleander and some
without. Gas chromatography would let you see the differences and column
chromatography would separate them out for you to characterize.

Listings that I've read refer to ingestion of oleander for toxic effects
in mammals, birds, reptiles. As long as you don't eat Monarch butterfly
there shouldn't be much of a problem.

Anecdotally, I grow tomatoes and cucumbers around foxglove and I've
never got so much as a buzz :-(

- Bill


In article ,
"Jon ChicKen$ M@ster" wrote:

Powerless Agronomist wrote:

The plants are absorbing toxins - plain sample are pesticides which remain
in plants and finish in our body, and then start gambling with our health,
some win many lose..


Yes I know, but pesticides enter into the plants because of phloem
allows some of them (some active matters) to move through its vessels
(to be selectively translocated through its vessels), others cannot be
translocateed and stop on the plant surface and/or in the parenchymatic
cells beside it.

I need to know if (every, or some) plant phloem allows Nerium oleander
toxin to be translocated through its vessels as easily as some
pesticides, so that this toxin could be stored in its edible tissues and
damage our health.
Thanks, bye,
Jon

  #5  
Old 01-09-2006, 03:24 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

On 8/31/06 11:52 AM, in article
, "Jon ChicKen$ M@ster"
wrote:

Do they?
Particularly can Nerium oleander toxins be absorbed from vegetables and
be stored in their fruits/leaves?
Thanks in advance
Jon

Before worrying much about plants absorbing toxins accidentally, worry more
about plants that do it on purpose, so to speak. Eggplant has its nicotine.
Worry about accidentally eating peach seeds or apple seeds. What if tapioca
were not processed correctly? On and on. Much of such worry is an indicator
that you have too much time on your hands.

Bill
-- Ferme le Bush


  #6  
Old 01-09-2006, 04:39 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 124
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:24:21 -0700, "William L. Rose"
wrote:

Listings that I've read refer to ingestion of oleander for toxic effects
in mammals, birds, reptiles. As long as you don't eat Monarch butterfly
there shouldn't be much of a problem.


Monarch caterpillars eat milkweed, not oleanders. While they both
contain cardiac glycosides, and oleander aphids plague my milkweed
plants, monarchs prefer milkweeds.


Penelope, who has monarch caterpillars munching her milkweed right
now.


--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed"
  #7  
Old 01-09-2006, 10:16 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

William L. Rose wrote:
Came in late on this but for some reason you think that Nerium oleander
toxins (organic compounds) have migrated to you soil and that it
persists there (like poly-chlorinate biphenyls) long enough to be picked
up by plants and actively transported across cell membranes.


Really, I had not thought to this fact. You think oleander toxins could
not remain in the soil enough time to be absorbed in such a toxic quantity?

The phloem,
as you must know, basically is the water pipe for plants. Other than
water, larger molecules (nutrients) have to be selected.


Yes I know.

The real test would be to grow some veggies with oleander and some
without. Gas chromatography would let you see the differences and column
chromatography would separate them out for you to characterize.


You think anyone make this kind of tests on plants and perhaps on the
Oleander too?

Listings that I've read refer to ingestion of oleander for toxic effects
in mammals, birds, reptiles. As long as you don't eat Monarch butterfly
there shouldn't be much of a problem.


Do you know what is the necessary dose to kill a man, or a child (maybe
this dosis cannot be stored in veggie leafs and tree fruits!?) ?


Anecdotally, I grow tomatoes and cucumbers around foxglove and I've
never got so much as a buzz :-(


:-)


- Bill


Thanks, Bill
  #8  
Old 01-09-2006, 10:31 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

Alas, I fear you may be right. I must have miss con-screwed
http://www.agls.uidaho.edu/etoxweb/l.../L15_EBIO.pdf#
search=%22breakdown%20of%20nerium%20oleander%20tox ins%22 but it needn't
lead to defecation of character. The rather subtle point that I was
trying to make was that organic toxins need to pass from one organism to
the next to maintain their toxicity and would probably break down
quickly once they leave the protection of the organism. Yes, I am
relying on "divine revelation" here but I'm sure she won't ca-)
(This is where you smile.)
- Bill

In article ,
Penelope Periwinkle wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:24:21 -0700, "William L. Rose"
wrote:

Listings that I've read refer to ingestion of oleander for toxic effects
in mammals, birds, reptiles. As long as you don't eat Monarch butterfly
there shouldn't be much of a problem.


Monarch caterpillars eat milkweed, not oleanders. While they both
contain cardiac glycosides, and oleander aphids plague my milkweed
plants, monarchs prefer milkweeds.


Penelope, who has monarch caterpillars munching her milkweed right
now.

  #9  
Old 01-09-2006, 11:59 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

William L. Rose wrote:
Alas, I fear you may be right. I must have miss con-screwed
http://www.agls.uidaho.edu/etoxweb/l.../L15_EBIO.pdf#


...very interesting link ..stored!
Thanks'n bye,
Jon
  #10  
Old 01-09-2006, 08:13 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

Jon,
I have no expertise in this area. All I know is that I'm growing a
garden next to where a pyracantha bush used to be and I am growing
tomatoes, cucumber, and parsely in amongst wild foxgloves and I'm here
to tell the tale. On the other hand, asbestos takes twenty years to
raise it's ugly head in the form of cancer. Life is inherently unsafe.
As long as I get my three score and ten, I will be a happy camper
(yikes! make that four score and ten).

Nature is a battle zone and it is full of disincentives, among them,
toxins. Fortunately, we have a liver whose function it is to protect us
from toxins in our food supply (such as lactating lettuce, and raw
mushrooms). Be prudent, but don't be paranoid.

I'm sure that someone, somewhere has the knowledge that you look for.
Pharmaceutical companies have been analysing botanicals for a long time
and these days if they find anything interresting (something they can
make a buck on), they'll patent it. Start with the biology department at
a local college. Teachers usually go beserk when they find someone who
actually wants to learn.

- Bill

"Here at the fountains sliding foot,
or at some fruit tree's mossy root,
casting my body's vest aside,
my soul into the boughs doth glide,
and there like a bird it sits and sings,
then whets and preens its' silver wings,
and till prepar'd for longer flight,
waves in it's plumes the varied light".
- The Garden,
Andrew Marvell (1621-1678)


In article ,
"Jon ChicKen$ M@ster" wrote:

William L. Rose wrote:
Came in late on this but for some reason you think that Nerium oleander
toxins (organic compounds) have migrated to you soil and that it
persists there (like poly-chlorinate biphenyls) long enough to be picked
up by plants and actively transported across cell membranes.


Really, I had not thought to this fact. You think oleander toxins could
not remain in the soil enough time to be absorbed in such a toxic quantity?

The phloem,
as you must know, basically is the water pipe for plants. Other than
water, larger molecules (nutrients) have to be selected.


Yes I know.

The real test would be to grow some veggies with oleander and some
without. Gas chromatography would let you see the differences and column
chromatography would separate them out for you to characterize.


You think anyone make this kind of tests on plants and perhaps on the
Oleander too?

Listings that I've read refer to ingestion of oleander for toxic effects
in mammals, birds, reptiles. As long as you don't eat Monarch butterfly
there shouldn't be much of a problem.


Do you know what is the necessary dose to kill a man, or a child (maybe
this dosis cannot be stored in veggie leafs and tree fruits!?) ?


Anecdotally, I grow tomatoes and cucumbers around foxglove and I've
never got so much as a buzz :-(


:-)


- Bill


Thanks, Bill

  #11  
Old 02-09-2006, 10:26 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

William L. Rose wrote:

Jon,
I have no expertise in this area. All I know is that I'm growing a
garden next to where a pyracantha bush used to be and I am growing
tomatoes, cucumber, and parsely in amongst wild foxgloves and I'm here
to tell the tale.


All this, I think, it's a very good think, I would like to do the same.
Thanks for all your informations. I'm sorry I didn't want to criticize
you, perhaps I only asked too much questions! Really I am very
interested to know what I asked you! :-)

On the other hand, asbestos takes twenty years to
raise it's ugly head in the form of cancer. Life is inherently unsafe.
As long as I get my three score and ten, I will be a happy camper
(yikes! make that four score and ten).

Nature is a battle zone and it is full of disincentives, among them,
toxins. Fortunately, we have a liver whose function it is to protect us
from toxins in our food supply (such as lactating lettuce, and raw
mushrooms). Be prudent, but don't be paranoid.


This a very good advice, perhaps sometimes I'm a little paranoid, but
this answer was only for my uncle that is frequently really paranoid :-)))

I'm an agronomist too, but I don't know very good issues about toxins,
and frequently I ask myself something I don't know, so I decided to post
a message here.
I'm happy to verify my "collegues" are well learned also in scientific
issues, I would like sometimes to talk about them. Then, I hope here
could be a good place for it.

I'm sure that someone, somewhere has the knowledge that you look for.
Pharmaceutical companies have been analysing botanicals for a long time
and these days if they find anything interresting (something they can
make a buck on), they'll patent it. Start with the biology department at
a local college. Teachers usually go beserk when they find someone who
actually wants to learn.



Thanks; as I said befo All this is only for my uncle. He is a doctor
and as lot of them, a little paranoid. I hope what you said before could
be enough for him.

- Bill


Thanks
Jon
  #12  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:28 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 124
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:13:21 -0700, "William L. Rose"
wrote:

Jon,
I have no expertise in this area. All I know is that I'm growing a
garden next to where a pyracantha bush used to be


I have a dear friend who makes pyracantha jelly every year. She uses
the ripe berries, and it tastes like honey.


Penelope
--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed"
  #13  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:49 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

As part of a phytoremediation project at a Superfund site, The Army Corps of
Engineering is conducting an experiment to determine whether ferns will
remove arsenic from the soil.
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7


  #14  
Old 02-09-2006, 05:10 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

Compostman wrote:
As part of a phytoremediation project at a Superfund site, The Army Corps of
Engineering is conducting an experiment to determine whether ferns will
remove arsenic from the soil.
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7


I think this is very interesting. Where can I read something about this?
Are there any press releases about this issue?
  #15  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:14 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Do plants absorb toxins from the soil?

Jon,

what, you weren't listening either? Mon Dieu.

I believe this all started with anxiety over transferring toxins from an
oleander to your edible garden. Then there was a bit of contention from
another reader of this group about whether monarch butterflies dine on
milkweed or oleander. They are both members of the milkweed family but
different genera (my bad). This is the problem with being dilettante. I
can already feel my attention and interest drifting away. But before I
dash off to my next bright and shinny preoccupation, let me make one
final observation.

Sadly, natural organic structures (including toxins) degrade into lower
energy compounds or elements. Natural inorganic toxins like arsenic,
lead, mercury, ect., do not because they are already in their lowest
energy state, and as a result they are persistent in the environment.
Don't plant on a "Superfund Site".

Ask questions. If you don't understand the answer, re-phrase the
question. (Maybe it is ignorance on your part or maybe it is just a bad
answer.) Question authority. If people didn't question authority, we
wouldn't have had Copernicus, Galileo, or Newton.

Gut Glück,

- Bill


In article ,
"Jon ChicKen$ M@ster" wrote:

William L. Rose wrote:

Jon,
I have no expertise in this area. All I know is that I'm growing a
garden next to where a pyracantha bush used to be and I am growing
tomatoes, cucumber, and parsely in amongst wild foxgloves and I'm here
to tell the tale.


All this, I think, it's a very good think, I would like to do the same.
Thanks for all your informations. I'm sorry I didn't want to criticize
you, perhaps I only asked too much questions! Really I am very
interested to know what I asked you! :-)

On the other hand, asbestos takes twenty years to
raise it's ugly head in the form of cancer. Life is inherently unsafe.
As long as I get my three score and ten, I will be a happy camper
(yikes! make that four score and ten).

Nature is a battle zone and it is full of disincentives, among them,
toxins. Fortunately, we have a liver whose function it is to protect us
from toxins in our food supply (such as lactating lettuce, and raw
mushrooms). Be prudent, but don't be paranoid.


This a very good advice, perhaps sometimes I'm a little paranoid, but
this answer was only for my uncle that is frequently really paranoid :-)))

I'm an agronomist too, but I don't know very good issues about toxins,
and frequently I ask myself something I don't know, so I decided to post
a message here.
I'm happy to verify my "collegues" are well learned also in scientific
issues, I would like sometimes to talk about them. Then, I hope here
could be a good place for it.

I'm sure that someone, somewhere has the knowledge that you look for.
Pharmaceutical companies have been analysing botanicals for a long time
and these days if they find anything interresting (something they can
make a buck on), they'll patent it. Start with the biology department at
a local college. Teachers usually go beserk when they find someone who
actually wants to learn.



Thanks; as I said befo All this is only for my uncle. He is a doctor
and as lot of them, a little paranoid. I hope what you said before could
be enough for him.

- Bill


Thanks
Jon

 




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