this year?

i have a bit of brush clearing to do and
perhaps transplanting some trees.

the rest of the gardens are fairly done and
not too much to change now. only one spot
inside the fence will need much work as we've
removed the pathway to combine two smaller
patches. we'll have to redo those edges with
something. the hardest part is already done
(getting the rocks and crushed limestone moved
out of the way).

i'm not sure if this is the light at the end
of the tunnel or not, but this year is looking
good because without having big projects hanging
over my head i'll be doing more weeding and
redoing of existing places.

but i'm not going to say any of this to Ma
because i know there's plenty of other projects
out there to work on if i feel like it... we
could redo the berm and take down the large
white pine tree that is too close to the house
before it becomes even a worse problem than it
already is. shhhh! mums the word...


songbird

songbird wrote:
this year?
songbird

Grow more field peas , fewer tomatoes , and about the same amounts of
peppers , cukes and other vine stuff . And use more compost/mulch/manure .
Plus , I'll be making areas similar to raised beds , with designated
walkways to help prevent compaction in the growing areas .
--
Snag

Well, for the first time in forever I ordered seeds way early. But not
for the first time I planted the garlic way late. As mentioned when I
did my kraut experiments, I'll be growing cabbage for the first time as
a direct result of the kraut experiments.

I have hopes to get the expletive fence rebuilt, cat-tight and deer
high (one of the neighbors trained the local deer by growing sunflowers
a few years ago. Used to be a 4 foot fence was sufficient - they could
have jumped it but didn't bother - now they jump like crazy.) Related is
rebedding. Going to try woodchips (deep) on the paths. Related is...

Got more drainage to do.

Need to haul more poop, since poop is the essence of garden here in
"throw pots from the sub-soil" land. If you ain't got poop, you ain't
got topsoil.

Tilt at the bleeping windmill of creeping buttercup. It makes me think
about 2, 4, D which is not exactly my normal thought direction on
gardening. Nothing all that new there, though - it's been a battle for
years.

Might actually redo the grape trellis, but I've been saying that and not
getting it done for a few years.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On 2/2/2016 4:30 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
Well, for the first time in forever I ordered seeds way early. But not
for the first time I planted the garlic way late. As mentioned when I
did my kraut experiments, I'll be growing cabbage for the first time as
a direct result of the kraut experiments.

I have hopes to get the expletive fence rebuilt, cat-tight and deer
high (one of the neighbors trained the local deer by growing sunflowers
a few years ago. Used to be a 4 foot fence was sufficient - they could
have jumped it but didn't bother - now they jump like crazy.) Related is
rebedding. Going to try woodchips (deep) on the paths. Related is...

Got more drainage to do.

Need to haul more poop, since poop is the essence of garden here in
"throw pots from the sub-soil" land. If you ain't got poop, you ain't
got topsoil.

Tilt at the bleeping windmill of creeping buttercup. It makes me think
about 2, 4, D which is not exactly my normal thought direction on
gardening. Nothing all that new there, though - it's been a battle for
years.

Might actually redo the grape trellis, but I've been saying that and not
getting it done for a few years.

It is going to be the same old, same old here. Dear wife tries to do
everything the way her Dad did it 60 years ago. I keep trying to keep it
organic, Nada dos! I guess I will have to get out there first and do it
my way. Wasn't that an old Perry Como song?

We should be planting soon but she's still nursing the winter garden
along. Still have lots of curly leaf kale (I don't eat kale, tastes
nasty to me), spinach (I like that), lots of various lettuce's (I like
that too), still have spring/summer sweet chilies that are still
producing very small chilies (I think she is trying to see if they are
actually perennials). Sweet green peas that haven't even bloomed yet and
probably won't. She was the middle child of five and her elder brothers
tried to eat everything before the little girls could get to the table.
That might be the cause for trying to save everything. G

Mid-seventies again here today, starting to cool off a bit here at
around 1700 hours.

Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:

this year?

Oh, my; hmmm.... Having found a second source of nearly free fish
poo, this year, I'll use a larger proportion of it to replace the
commercial "fish emulsion" for which I now pay ±$20.00/gal. FWIW, the
fish "poo" is the sediment from talapia ponds/pools. Waste from food
grade fish, grown in state-inspected nurseries and fed human food grade
stuff, pesticide and antibiotic free, etc. The big consumers of the
pond stuff in these parts are local golf courses and driving ranges.
One operator gladly pumps the same stuff into containers small enough
for a geezer to handle and the other allows me to harvest the dried
sediment that remains after the nursery ("breeding") pools are drained.
--Yay!-- If I can keep my horse hockey connection alive and keep the
fish goo connection alive _and_ keep That Damned Truck roadworthy (not a
word from you, bird),

*snickers*

i'm surprised they don't have more onsite nutrient
recycling.

one writer down in Aussieland found a source of deader
fish from such a place that he could use in his garden.
wanted to know how to make fish emulsion. AFAIC fish are
a near perfect fertilizer for high demand plants, why
would anyone want to go through extra work when the worms,
bugs and other soil critters will take care of the process?

the only downside is that if the raccoons start finding
the gardens smelling really good they might go after some
of the plants thinking there is food down there.

we used to have troubles with the onion transplants
getting uprooted by raccoons because they could smell
the fertilizer used on them. they'd pull the plants
up and leave them laying on the surface, didn't eat
them, just looking for food.

now we plant these sort of onion plants inside the
fenced gardens and so far the raccoons have not been
doing much in there.


then, I'm pretty much in Fat City as far as stinky
stuff goes and everyone knows a complement of stinky stuff completes the
gardening experience.

for the system here the most stinky stuff comes from
the bottom of a bucket if it gets very wet. the worms are
all through it though so they don't seem to mind at all.
as long as it isn't actively swimming.


Now, if only I could find a reliable source of pesticide-free bulk
vegetative matter to feed the compost pile....

you gots acres there, some selected thinning and chipping
would provide plenty of carbon. or just walking around picking
up sticks might be enough.

from what i could harvest from the honeysuckle bushes and
the green manure patch i could generate a few yards of composted
materials each season if i needed to do that. luckily i don't
and the worms are doing a mighty fine job of digesting things
between the kitchen scraps and the paper scraps.


songbird

Ecnerwal wrote:

Well, for the first time in forever I ordered seeds way early. But not
for the first time I planted the garlic way late.

it makes a little difference, but not too much.
i had our garlic planted shortly after the red
pepper plants got frosted out.


As mentioned when I
did my kraut experiments, I'll be growing cabbage for the first time as
a direct result of the kraut experiments.




I have hopes to get the expletive fence rebuilt, cat-tight and deer
high (one of the neighbors trained the local deer by growing sunflowers
a few years ago. Used to be a 4 foot fence was sufficient - they could
have jumped it but didn't bother - now they jump like crazy.) Related is
rebedding. Going to try woodchips (deep) on the paths. Related is...

i like the woodchips here that we use in a lot of
mulching for the perennial gardens and i use them for
filler underneath some gardens to get more elevation
to help with flash flooding.

after a few years they get rotted enough that they
make good compost/humus addition to the clay soil
here.


Got more drainage to do.

Need to haul more poop, since poop is the essence of garden here in
"throw pots from the sub-soil" land. If you ain't got poop, you ain't
got topsoil.

worm poop is my favorite. i move a few
hundred lbs of that a season for the most
heavily feeding plantings. the rest get a
mix of whatever is on hand that will get
digested by the worms. seems to be working
as most gardens keep gradually improving each
season.

noticed the most differences in the gardens
where i'd grown cover crops and then turned them
under. buckwheat, winter rye, winter wheat,
turnips, radishes, etc. turns this clay into
butter.


Tilt at the bleeping windmill of creeping buttercup. It makes me think
about 2, 4, D which is not exactly my normal thought direction on
gardening. Nothing all that new there, though - it's been a battle for
years.

luckily, only patch of that here is on the south side in
a grassy area that gets mowed. hasn't shown up in any of
the other gardens (so far!). i'm always keeping an eye out
for new invaders because i've well learned over the years
that it's much easier to head something off in the early
stages than to have to deal with it later.


Might actually redo the grape trellis, but I've been saying that and not
getting it done for a few years.

*nods* i have an old trellis that i'd like to put up
some wire fencing for some climbing beans, but i've not
gotten to that yet either.


songbird

On 2/20/2016 6:28 PM, Derald wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

And use more compost/mulch/manure .
You may as well go ahead and buy a truck; full sized pickup. Just
don't ever drive it _onto_ the manure pile to load it....

Is that experience speaking? I, too, learned that the hard way a very
long time ago.

On 2/20/2016 6:28 PM, Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:


one writer down in Aussieland found a source of deader
fish from such a place that he could use in his garden.
wanted to know how to make fish emulsion. AFAIC fish are
a near perfect fertilizer for high demand plants, why
would anyone want to go through extra work when the worms,
bugs and other soil critters will take care of the process?
Well, for one thing, dead fish are exceptionally aromatic and, if
buried deeply enough not to attract a rather large gamut of neighboring
digging beasts, the decay product (which is, after all, what is desired)
is largely unavailable to the garden. Down here in the sand, one must
bury fish more deeply than, for example, cats (with which the burying of
I have some experience....). Commercially produced fish "emulsion" has
been processed, after a fashion, largely by simple cooking, to kill off
pathogens and reduce the odor.

the only downside is that if the raccoons start finding
the gardens smelling really good they might go after some
of the plants thinking there is food down there.
Here, the raccoons seem to dig randomly in search of subterranean
treasure ("grubs"), although, they clearly do follow mole trails—in
competition for the same food, no doubt. Here, the most likely pests to
be attracted to garden soil amendments are free range dogs.

we used to have troubles with the onion transplants
getting uprooted by raccoons because they could smell
the fertilizer used on them. they'd pull the plants
up and leave them laying on the surface, didn't eat
them, just looking for food.
That happened to me in 2014. The cute little monsters damaged the
plants so badly that I just started over with new seeds and got the
onions transplanted late.


you gots acres there, some selected thinning and chipping
would provide plenty of carbon. or just walking around picking
up sticks might be enough.
Oh, you know that I don't do that. I'm the guy who's trying to
encourage more of this place to return to its native state. Besides, I
have an unending supply of "brown": I have enough tree tops laid by
from harvested firewood to last the remainder of my lifetime, +, and I
certainly hope that I have more coming :-) It is fresh tender, ready to
rot, _green_ vegetative material that always is in short supply.

And our Home Owner's Association doesn't allow open composting, must be
in a barrel or a composter. Every tree in the subdivision is a live oak,
don't drop leaves. We're the only folks with a fruit tree in the front
yard and a couple more in the back. I watched the new neighbor next door
fail to water his expensive live oak during the summer drought, tried to
warn him, tree died. He hired someone to come and take it out of the
ground and haul it off. City people, hmmpf!

On 2/2/2016 10:40 AM, songbird wrote:
this year?

i have a bit of brush clearing to do and
perhaps transplanting some trees.
......
songbird

Thing to do differently this season:

o start seedlings later -- some time after St Paddy's Day.
o don't start seeds in any "recyclable" cardboard...especially empty
toilet rolls. Biggest mistake ever.
o change home-rolled sprinkler controller to get accum'd precipitation
from a real rain gauge instead of polling wunderground.com.
o plant more Marianna's Peace tomatoes and fewer ghost peppers.
o experiment with home-rolled earth box.
o try to outsmart moles.
o try to outsmart squirrels.
o try to outsmart rabbits.
o try to outsmart raccoons.
o try to outsmart possums.

Frank

Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:


one writer down in Aussieland found a source of deader
fish from such a place that he could use in his garden.
wanted to know how to make fish emulsion. AFAIC fish are
a near perfect fertilizer for high demand plants, why
would anyone want to go through extra work when the worms,
bugs and other soil critters will take care of the process?

Well, for one thing, dead fish are exceptionally aromatic and, if
buried deeply enough not to attract a rather large gamut of neighboring
digging beasts, the decay product (which is, after all, what is desired)
is largely unavailable to the garden. Down here in the sand, one must
bury fish more deeply than, for example, cats (with which the burying of
I have some experience....). Commercially produced fish "emulsion" has
been processed, after a fashion, largely by simple cooking, to kill off
pathogens and reduce the odor.

ah, ok, makes more sense now. i'm used to this
heavier soil where if it is down 8" it's not smelled.


the only downside is that if the raccoons start finding
the gardens smelling really good they might go after some
of the plants thinking there is food down there.

Here, the raccoons seem to dig randomly in search of subterranean
treasure ("grubs"), although, they clearly do follow mole trails—in
competition for the same food, no doubt.

moles feed most often by running their tunnels looking
for worms/grubs/whatever that falls in. they also feed
frequently. so if you find their main runs you can often
trap them within a few days.


Here, the most likely pests to
be attracted to garden soil amendments are free range dogs.

we are lucky to not have those here. there are fox
and coyotes around but as of yet they stay away. we
don't have stuff out to attract them anyways.


we used to have troubles with the onion transplants
getting uprooted by raccoons because they could smell
the fertilizer used on them. they'd pull the plants
up and leave them laying on the surface, didn't eat
them, just looking for food.

That happened to me in 2014. The cute little monsters damaged the
plants so badly that I just started over with new seeds and got the
onions transplanted late.




you gots acres there, some selected thinning and chipping
would provide plenty of carbon. or just walking around picking
up sticks might be enough.

Oh, you know that I don't do that. I'm the guy who's trying to
encourage more of this place to return to its native state. Besides, I
have an unending supply of "brown": I have enough tree tops laid by
from harvested firewood to last the remainder of my lifetime, +, and I
certainly hope that I have more coming :-) It is fresh tender, ready to
rot, _green_ vegetative material that always is in short supply.

i only use that for worm food and as a bit of a
N boost sometimes as a top dressing if it will be
dry enough. as of yet, see no signs that this is
not working well for all involved. minimal fuss
and bother method. if i could make alfalfa pellets
that would be fun, but it involves machinery and i
don't really want to get involved with machines if
i can help it. worms seem to not care and eat it
up in any form.


songbird

George Shirley wrote:
....
And our Home Owner's Association doesn't allow open composting, must be
in a barrel or a composter. Every tree in the subdivision is a live oak,
don't drop leaves. We're the only folks with a fruit tree in the front
yard and a couple more in the back. I watched the new neighbor next door
fail to water his expensive live oak during the summer drought, tried to
warn him, tree died. He hired someone to come and take it out of the
ground and haul it off. City people, hmmpf!

sounds like a regulation written by people who don't
know how to garden or all the various ways you can
compost.

i've not had any "traditional" compost piles around here
for many years. but i've processed tons of materials.

i doubt anyone would notice if you'd done some layered
compost gardens topped by wood chips. or buried things
for slower composting. clay likes organic stuff.


songbird

On 2/21/2016 6:38 PM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
And our Home Owner's Association doesn't allow open composting, must be
in a barrel or a composter. Every tree in the subdivision is a live oak,
don't drop leaves. We're the only folks with a fruit tree in the front
yard and a couple more in the back. I watched the new neighbor next door
fail to water his expensive live oak during the summer drought, tried to
warn him, tree died. He hired someone to come and take it out of the
ground and haul it off. City people, hmmpf!

sounds like a regulation written by people who don't
know how to garden or all the various ways you can
compost.

i've not had any "traditional" compost piles around here
for many years. but i've processed tons of materials.

i doubt anyone would notice if you'd done some layered
compost gardens topped by wood chips. or buried things
for slower composting. clay likes organic stuff.


songbird

There are about three people here that garden, all of us in raised beds.
One of them is the HOA President, he has a large, black trash can on
wheels that he composts in, the other guy has a compost heap in his
backyard but doesn't let out any hints it is there. It's hard to find a
home in Houston area that isn't run by an HOA. State had to step in in
2011 and write a new law about HOA's. Seems many of them were seizing
peoples homes if their dues weren't paid on time, plus a lot of silly
rules, which it seems that there are still many of. Our HOA just takes
out a lien if the dues aren't paid and, when the house is sold by the
owner the HOA gets their money. Subdivision is now ten years old and
some of the owners have never paid their dues. Dues are $290 a year and
the money just sits in the bank. No amenities at all but a lot of
promises for a club house and maybe a basketball court. We shall see. DW
likes the closeness to our large extended family. When she and I married
it was just us, now it's our two kids, five grandkids, six great grands
and two of our granddaughters haven't married and spawned as yet plus
one grandson that is still in high school. It hasn't ended yet, we've
got a 16 year old great grand daughter and I worry about her. Happens
she has a really good mind so I think she will be okay. Our youngest
great granddaughter will be here with us every other day for the week
while her mom goes to therapy for a bad shoulder. We're happy with the
deal, and we're slowly getting her into gardening. She's pretty good at
digging in the raised beds.

On 2/23/2016 1:33 PM, Derald wrote:
As for dogs, they replaced feral cats and feral swine as pointless
destructors in these parts years and years ago. Most of the hogs were
killed off years back and an aggressive feline sterilization program
exists in this area. This area is just remote enough for townies to
judge to be "far enough" to dump Lassie when she no longer is a cute
puppy and becomes just another dumb-ass dog left alone by folks who
willingly commute 100+ miles just to keep a job.

Back in the sixties folks used to come out to where we country hicks
lived and dump their no longer loved critters. House was about a quarter
mile from the main road and I was out in the garden when I saw a truck
stop and a dog dumped. Had the binoculars around my neck, no not window
peeping, watching some crows after something about five acres away. Got
the guys license plate number, went into the house, called a deputy
sheriff friend, got the guys address. The dog trotted right up to the
house so put him in my truck and took him home. The home was about six
miles east of us and actually in town. Often wondered what happened when
the dumper got home and found his dog on the porch.

On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 11:41:13 AM UTC-5, songbird wrote:
this year?

i have a bit of brush clearing to do and
perhaps transplanting some trees.

the rest of the gardens are fairly done and
not too much to change now. only one spot
inside the fence will need much work as we've
removed the pathway to combine two smaller
patches. we'll have to redo those edges with
something. the hardest part is already done
(getting the rocks and crushed limestone moved
out of the way).

i'm not sure if this is the light at the end
of the tunnel or not, but this year is looking
good because without having big projects hanging
over my head i'll be doing more weeding and
redoing of existing places.

but i'm not going to say any of this to Ma
because i know there's plenty of other projects
out there to work on if i feel like it... we
could redo the berm and take down the large
white pine tree that is too close to the house
before it becomes even a worse problem than it
already is. shhhh! mums the word...


songbird

I retired at the end of 2015, so this will be my first gardening season where I have enough spare time to keep up with the weeds in the vegetable garden. I also want to give the wild rice another try. I built a couple of small rice paddies downhill from the pond a few years ago but they kept getting overrun with weeds.

Paul

Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:
Derald wrote:

Here, the raccoons seem to dig randomly in search of subterranean
treasure ("grubs"), although, they clearly do follow mole trails—in
competition for the same food, no doubt.

moles feed most often by running their tunnels looking
for worms/grubs/whatever that falls in. they also feed
frequently. so if you find their main runs you can often
trap them within a few days.

I leave moles in the yard unmolested.

i would like to as i know they play an important
role in keeping the topsoil uncompacted, but Ma
rules so i trap them when i see they are getting
into the grassy strip along the south side. i see
we have one along there now, but i won't be setting
a trap until the ground is thawed out.


They have enough to do just
dealing with the raccoons.... Well, truth is, we do collapse their
tunnels (opportunistically) but that is simple human malice: That is to
say, "Because we can" ;-) For a few years, I had trouble with moles
getting into the raised beds. Two successive introductions of predatory
nematodes in fall 2011, intended primarily to control "root knot",
reduced the "grub" (beetle larvae) pupulation enough that it no longer
attracts moles. Also seems to have reduced the wireworm (click beetle)
population.

we've only had a few instances where the moles
have come through some of the gardens. they don't
stay around long (mostly out front and in the
garden to the north which is better quality topsoil
and not so much clay). with all the soil being very
worm free for so many years, they came in, and were
usually gone within a few days.


Here, the most likely pests to
be attracted to garden soil amendments are free range dogs.

we are lucky to not have those here. there are fox
and coyotes around but as of yet they stay away. we
don't have stuff out to attract them anyways.

We hear coyotes from time to time but have never seen any. I've
not seen a native gray fox since 1996. Don't remember when I last saw a
red fox, which is fine with me.

up until last year we'd not seen any coyotes, but had
one run across the road in front of us (by a long ways
so we were not in any danger of hitting it). something
must have got it moving for it to be running in the mid-
day. foxes are around but very shy. i've only seen one
or two of those and they are not around our yard, we
don't keep chickens.


As for dogs, they replaced feral cats and feral swine as pointless
destructors in these parts years and years ago. Most of the hogs were
killed off years back and an aggressive feline sterilization program
exists in this area. This area is just remote enough for townies to
judge to be "far enough" to dump Lassie when she no longer is a cute
puppy and becomes just another dumb-ass dog left alone by folks who
willingly commute 100+ miles just to keep a job.

yeah, it's very sad, the northlands here tend to be
a lot harder on stray dogs. i don't know of any around
that live long (through a winter) unless they are in
the city and someone is feeding them.


It is fresh tender, ready to
rot, _green_ vegetative material that always is in short supply.

i only use that for worm food and as a bit of a
N boost sometimes as a top dressing if it will be
dry enough. as of yet, see no signs that this is
not working well for all involved. minimal fuss
and bother method. if i could make alfalfa pellets
that would be fun, but it involves machinery and i
don't really want to get involved with machines if
i can help it. worms seem to not care and eat it
up in any form.

Oh, a well managed compost pile is no particular trouble and
produces a steady supply of black compost. Requires a good supply of
green stuff to feed the bacteria, decent areation by turning and
"enough" moisture. Although, I add to my small compost pile
continuously and agitate it frequently (aereation), I no longer fool
with such esoterica as measuring temperature, calculating n/c ratios,
calculating volume or whatever else is oh, so important to the popular
press this year. Shoot, if weed seeds germinate in the pile, it isn't
hot enough; how hard is that? Besides, one doesn't want to kill or
debilitate the worms and insects that inhabit the stuff. When preparing
beds, I turn the compost 100% and harvest the ready compost that sifts
out during the process. I do not make the mistake of distributing a
limited quantity of compost across many beds where it essentially is
lost but concentrate the available compost in a few beds in order to
provide the most benefit to the plants and animals in them. I augment
the compost throughout the garden with alfalfa pellets. I'd prefer the
meal form but none of the local sources carries it and I tired of
grinding my own so, nowadays, I just work pellets (at the highest rate
shown he
http://www.alfalfagreen.ca/index.php/what-is-alfalfa-green/application-rates-w-pictures
into the upper few inches and live with them.

i do the concentrated thing too with the worm castings/
worms. most of them go to one or two gardens. it's
getting closer to that season.

how long do the pellets last in your beds?


songbird