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garden police gone wild?



 
 
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  #76  
Old 04-06-2003, 09:20 PM
Larry Blanchard
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Default garden police gone wild?

In article ,
says...
Let us
therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the
British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still
say, "This was their finest hour."

Winston Churchill
House of Commons, June18th 1940

I've always liked that grumpy old man. But he was part American so we
can claim him too :[).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
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  #77  
Old 04-06-2003, 09:32 PM
[email protected]
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Default garden police gone wild?

The English (thank gawd) have a history of raising eccentricity to a high art. I got
a very healthy dose in my genetic background from my father. I can understand how
the English wouldnt understand such stupidity. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
  #78  
Old 04-06-2003, 09:32 PM
Vox Humana
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Default garden police gone wild?


wrote in message
...

.. If these "laws" were so damn important, so damned
necessary for the "general good" why not fund "fence police" to go around

making sure
everyone was in compliance? Why not publish these "very important new

laws" so
everyone DOES know about them. Because sure as hell having rules that no

one knows
about, that people routinely break or even ignore leads to complete

contempt for law.
Ingrid


If I understand correctly from your message, your are talking about
Brookfield, WI. If so, it took me about 15 seconds to find the entire
municipal code for that city on line. I just put "Brookfield WI zoning"
into Google. You can go to this address and get a complete zoning map,
examples of the zoning ordinance, and a link to the full municipal code.
When you pull up the municipal code you will see that Title 16 deals with
subdivisions and Title 17 covers all other zoning matters. I am certain
that the code would be available for your inspection at your city hall or
courthouse and perhaps at the local library. As for compliance, all
building departments have some type of inspection and enforcement division.
Most departments have only a handful of people and therefore concentrate on
inspections as part of the building permit process or they act on complaints
made by the public. It isn't very common for building departments to look
for infractions.
http://www.ci.brookfield.wi.us/zoning.htm


  #79  
Old 05-06-2003, 12:08 AM
[email protected]
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Default garden police gone wild?

which has nothing I could find on fences or the myriad of other "laws". I did find
the burning statute, was surprised they got it all spelled out what can and cant be
planted. of course, all this is moot cause my mother doesnt have a computer. and it
doesnt change the fact that my mother never moved into a "subdivision" with any HOA
rules, the city passed those HOA rules and extended them to each and every house in
the city. Ingrid

"Vox Humana" wrote:
If I understand correctly from your message, your are talking about
Brookfield, WI. If so, it took me about 15 seconds to find the entire
municipal code for that city on line.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
  #81  
Old 05-06-2003, 08:20 AM
Jason Quick
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Default garden police gone wild?


"Jim Carter" wrote

"This was their finest hour."

Winston Churchill
House of Commons, June18th 1940


Yes. Churchill was a giant.

Funny thing is, the man spent two long years cajoling Franklin Roosevelt
about getting involved in the war. Care to speculate on why?

Jason


  #82  
Old 05-06-2003, 08:20 AM
Jason Quick
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Default garden police gone wild?

"Charlie" wrote:

I think it's pathetic that she's bothered about a trailer being left on a
front driveway!


It's illegal in many jurisdictions. Further, the deed to the man's house
says "no trailers in the driveway." It's part of the contract he signed
when he bought the house.

I also think it's pathetic that there are people who make
up stupid rules to say what colour you can or can't have your house

painted,
that you can't have more than a certian amount of cars on your driveway or
that your grass can't be more than 2" long! It's ridiculous.


It can certainly get that way. Some people desperately need a hobby.

And yes, we had a "head start" over making laws, but at least our country
actually has history more than 200 years old.


So does the US. First colonists landed in 1584, making it rather over 400
years. The natives were of course here long before that.

And don't bring the World Wars into it, this is niether the time or the
place. At least we don't start them.


Except for that one where your government sold out Czechoslovakia and
Poland, you're right. Oh, and that Boer War, and the War of 1812 (heisting
our ships and kidnapping our sailors will get you a war). Surely there are
a few others I'm forgetting...

Jason


  #83  
Old 05-06-2003, 01:44 PM
Jim Carter
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Default garden police gone wild?

On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:13:05 -0500, "Jason Quick" wrote in
rec.gardens.edible:

Funny thing is, the man spent two long years cajoling Franklin Roosevelt
about getting involved in the war. Care to speculate on why?


There is no need to speculate, especially here. The reasons are given in most
books about World War II.
--
Gardening Zones
Canada Zone 5a
United States Zone 3a
Near Ottawa, Ontario
  #84  
Old 05-06-2003, 08:56 PM
Drew Davis
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Default garden police gone wild?

On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:13:05 -0500, "Jason Quick"
wrote:

}
}"Jim Carter" wrote
}
} "This was their finest hour."
}
} Winston Churchill
} House of Commons, June18th 1940
}
}Yes. Churchill was a giant.
}
}Funny thing is, the man spent two long years cajoling Franklin Roosevelt
}about getting involved in the war. Care to speculate on why?
}
}Jason
}
Everyone already knew that Hitler had some serious weapons.
  #85  
Old 05-06-2003, 08:56 PM
Drew Davis
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Default garden police gone wild?

On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:04:25 -0500, Mark Anderson wrote:

}In article says...
} World War II was 1939 - 1945. The United States entered the war late in 1941
} after Pearl Harbor was attacked. The Battle of Britain had already been fought
} and won, by Britain, by the summer of 1941. Hitler had already turned the bulk
} of his troops and equipment toward Russia, where he suffered such severe losses
} of both men and materials that he might as well have surrendered at that time
} (as an aside, this is the same mistake that Napolean made and the same
} consequences). The outcome of World War II was already established when the US
} entered it; although, US entry greatly expedited the end of the war.
}
}Read the recent Pulitzer Prize winning book by Rick Atkinson, "An Army at
}Dawn," the first of a three book trilogy. The other two haven't been
}written yet. The book is about the Africa campaign, the first
}involvement of the US in WWII in that hemisphere. According to those
}accounts, Britain had zero chance of invading Africa by herself let alone
}continental Europe. Even the US with Britain learned a lot and lost a
}lot of men through their adventures and mis-adventures in Africa. I'm
}only halfway through the book but it's very enlightening.
}
[snip]

Britain was already bombing the German homeland in 1943. Your author is
also overlooking some serious possibilities. For instance...

The world's foremost scientists, including Albert Einstein, were the ones
who convinced Roosevelt to develop the atom bomb in the belief that Germany
was working on it. If the US had not entered the war these scientists might
have approached and convinced Britain to do so. Maybe.

My point is that there is no way of knowing how things would have proceeded
if the Japanese had not brought America into the war -- either
technologically or strategically. Remember, Britain invented RADAR and was
using a SONAR like system. They had the technological expertise to
construct an atom bomb if they had the will to do so.

Britain's allies were also going full speed ahead. By the end of the war
Canada had the world's third largest navy and fourth largest air force, for
example, and they were a country of a mere 15 million people at that time.
I have not checked what Australia and Brazil were up to.
  #86  
Old 05-06-2003, 11:20 PM
Drew Davis
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Default garden police gone wild?

On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:44:17 -0700, (paghat) wrote:

}Actually, a pretty good argument could be made that without the Patten in
}Africa & without the US's hard-won liberation especially of France,
}Germany might still have taken Europe down, & most certainly England
}couldn't've stopped them. But I'm not up to that particular argument just
}now, as I have trouble drumming up much jingoism even where it might
}belong.
}
}-paghat the ratgirl

Britain had already stopped Germany in the Battle of Britain and Russia had
already stopped Germany cold (that's a pun). England began daily (weather
permitting) bombing of Germany in 1943 and Russia had opened up the Eastern
front. Germany borders on the Atlantic with a major port at Hamburg (second
largest city in Germany), which England devastated in one night's bombing.
Hitler was so preoccupied with the eastern front that he issued mis-informed
orders to Rommel that caused Rommel to lose his armour and any chance he had
to conduct an attack against Montgomery's eighth army. I bring this up only
to show how concerned Hitler was in 1942 with the eastern front.

What do you think would happen to the German forces in Africa when Germany
fell? What would the Germans in France have done when Germany fell?

Europe would be a very different place today without American involvement,
no argument. I would very much like to see your pretty good argument for
Germany taking down Europe if the United States were not involved.

The jingoism started with "the country that saved your up-tight asses in two
world wars." Are you going to finish it with--"& most certainly England
couldn't've stopped them?"

Why are Americans not talking about lend/lease? That prevented the fall of
England as much as Patton did.
  #87  
Old 06-06-2003, 03:44 PM
[email protected]
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Default garden police gone wild?

What you say is not correct. There is no permit required for putting up a fence
along a lot line. When governments start writing ordinances that start banning
activities like parking certain vehicles, dictating fence type and style, color of
houses and kinds of swimming pools, it has nothing to do with ZONING and everything
to do with the city becoming "BIG BROTHER" like an HOA.
Zoning has to do with the uses to which land is put and laws concerning public
safety. So they can specify that there MUST be a fence and how high around a
swimming pool, but not what KIND of swimming pool or what KIND of fence... that is
cosmetic and has nothing to do with health and safety.
She didnt "have" an attorney UNTIL she was sued.
Ingrid

"Vox Humana" wrote:
You also said that there was no permit required for a fence but this is not
true.

Governments have zoning regulations, not Home Owner's rules.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
  #88  
Old 06-06-2003, 03:56 PM
Vox Humana
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Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?


wrote in message
...
What you say is not correct. There is no permit required for putting up a

fence
along a lot line.


I guess you didn't see my earlier message so I will copy the information
about fences below.


City of Brookfield, Wisconsin
Department of Community Development
2000 North Calhoun Road
Brookfield, WI 53005
Phone (262) 796-6646 M-F (7:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.)
FAX (262) 796-6702

THIS IS A LIST OF THE MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND
ANSWERS REGARDING FENCES

Q. Do I need a permit?
A. Yes, except for a decorative fence more than 50% open and less than 3' in
height.
Q. How much will a building permit for a fence cost?
A. $30.00.
Q. Can I put up a fence around my entire yard?
A. Yes, but only if it is a decorative fence more than 50% open and less
than 3' in
height such as a picket or split rail fence.
Q. You mean I can't fence in my own yard for privacy if I want?
A. Correct. You may not fence in your yard for privacy EXCEPT for a 20'
maximum
length, 6' maximum height privacy fence for a patio that must be located in
the rear
yard.
Q. What if I want to put up a chain link fence?
A. A chain link fence is permitted if it is used for one PET ENCLOSURE not
in excess
of 100 square feet in the rear yard and at least 10' from the lot line.
Chain link fence
is also allowed to enclose an ACTIVITY AREA FOR CHILDREN not more than 4'
in height and not more than 500 square feet in area.
Q. What about the fence at a swim pool or tennis court?
A. Fences at swim pool or tennis courts are governed by the swim pool and
tennis
court ordinances.
Q. How do I apply for a fence permit.
A. Application forms are available at the Inspection Services Department
Service desk.
Bring two copies of a typical fence panel drawing and four copies of a
survey (with
the proposed fence sketched in to scale) of the lot along with you when you
apply
for the permit.
Q. Must I have the lot line identified?
A. Yes. The corners shall be located with intermediate stakes or a reference
line from corner to corner. This line must remain in place during
construction
and final inspection.
NOTE: The property owner is responsible for correct placement of structures
upon a parcel of land to comply with the building and zoning law.
The edge of the City street pavement or back of curb is usually
NOT located on a property line.
Good luck with your project! Remember we are here to serve and protect you,
our
residents.
Our hours are Monday thru Friday 7:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Inspectors are in
from 7:00-8:00
a.m. and 2:30-3:30 p.m. Our telephone number is (262) 796-6646. Please call
if we may
be of further assistance.
S:\inspection\Handouts\HANDOUTS\FENCE 1/11/01


  #89  
Old 07-06-2003, 04:21 AM
Rico
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Default garden police gone wild?

paghat wrote:

snip

These communities began for racist reasons, as when the idea of Civil
Rights for more than just white people got a strong if belated foothold in
America, a few court cases settled certain issues & it became illegal to
discriminate in housing. But a loophole was built into the law, & remains
the Communities regulated by Home Owner Associations CAN define the
age, religion, social status, & race of "appropriate" members permitted to
buy houses within the housing enclave -- & no matter how agregiously
prejudiced,


In 1948, in Shelley v. Kraemer, the US Supreme Court ruled that racially
restrictive covenants were unenforceable (rendering them meaningless).
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...ol=334&invol=1
It's weird that -- despite Shelly v. Kraemer -- courts still uphold the
'right' of homeowner associations to use the courts to enforce servitude
restrictions that would be unconstitutional, were these private
governments legally considered governments.

it's perfectly legal, nothing those gawdamn queers & darkies
or whoever's left out can do to stop it, neener neener.


The government (e.g., the attorney general) will step in, in the case of
illegal discrimination, in common ownership development housing. In
fact, it's just about the only area the government will consider
defending homeowners against rogue HOA ruling cliques that have run amok.

The loophole makes
it legal to keep grandparents from letting their kids or grandchildren
move in when a housing community outlaws anyone under the age of 60; it
keeps Jews out of Christian housing districts;


I've never heard of a Christian housing district. Are you sure of your
facts?

it can even be "gated" with
a guard at the front gate to protect middleclass whities from "crime"
which is a code-word for "******s."


People can get into these developments posed as joggers, and still rob
people that have let their guard down -- BECAUSE of the gate and the
guard. In the final analysis, it's unclear whether gated subdivisions
are more secure.

It makes it legal to be upfront &
openly judgemental about why the mixed-race family is rejected from buying
into the given community, & if they think they should have the right to
sue over discrimination, tough.


This was prior to Shelley v. Kraemer, although I will agree that this
legacy of exclusion has had effects that persist to the present.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/case33.htm

Nevertheless, the victims don't have to sue. There are government
agencies that will handle the situation, like the state Fair Employment
and Housing Commission.
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/s...-6841242c.html

If this origin has changed slightly over time, & such enclaves are no
longer fully dominated by the initial purpose to keep racism legal, it is
only different insofar as there are now Chinese housing associations here
in Washington, & lots of them in California wherein only middleclass Latin
Americans are permitted to buy homes.


It is true that HOAs proliferated when they had become *the* main
vehicle to achieve racial discrimination in housing. Today, however,
anyone that's prevented from buying housing on the basis of national
origin, in California, can contact the Department of Fair Employment and
Housing.
http://www.dfeh.ca.gov/

So we're working toward equal opportunity appartied.

So trying to force people not to paint their house pink or have a

pink lawn flamingo or an American flag,
http://newsobserver.com/nc24hour/ncn...-2401603c.html

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/the_news_l...986333,00.html

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...a-news-broward

a UN flag,
http://www.kxtv10.com/storyfull.asp?id=4521

a
basketball hoop

http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi...3/05_27-19/CCR
over the garage door or redefining a hunter as inherently
evil BECAUSE he's a hunter & therefore suitably harrassed by Neighbors
United, up to & including anonymous reports to the police that he's a
child molester -- all that is just the tip of an iceberg made of hate,
among unsophisticated surburbanoids for whom "Property Values" is a
scare-word disguising the real purpose, &amp is synonymous with
"Intolerance."

-paghat the ratgirl


And to make matters worse, there's no evidence that homeowner
associations protect property values. They're set up using that purpose
as justification for creating them.

In fact, there is evidence to the contrary.

As more and more HOAs are created, and more and more people relate their
experiences, people are getting wind that homebuyers pay for 'pretty'
with oppression-by-adhesion-contract, and you can get 'pretty' without
the oppression.

The uniform "beige" town (city) of Cary, NC, establishes that local
governments can be as persnickety as associations, and that associations
are unnecessary.

That's why "The term 'No HOA' is starting to crop up in real estate
classified ads in the Phoenix area, where almost all new homes are built
under an association's wing. 'For most people it is a real selling
point,' says Rachel Linden, an agent with Coldwell Banker Success
Realty. 'Homeowners associations can be a real pain in the butt.' "
[Kiplinger Magazine, September, 2000]

"[T]oo many developers are more concerned with the immediate marketing
of a property and not long–term value potential."
http://money.cnn.com/2002/03/15/pf/y...dcom/index.htm

Moreover, as housing with no HOAs becomes more scarce, relative to
housing with HOAs -- something that is clearly happening
http://members.cox.net/concernedhomeowners/NmbrHOAs.htm
the values of homes in jurisdictions governed by HOAs will decrease,
relative to those of homes in jurisdictions not governed by HOAs.

Not only don't HOAs protect property values now, they cannot protect
their values from the "invisible hand" -- the inevitable effects of the
free market forces of supply and demand.

  #90  
Old 07-06-2003, 04:21 AM
[email protected]
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Default garden police gone wild?

exactly my point!!!!! there is NO PERMIT REQUIRED FOR A DECORATIVE FENCE. right.
thats what it was, less than 3' in height and 50% open and when the vines grew up it,
decorative.
what it says is a fence on the lot line (all around the yard) DOES NOT REQUIRE A
PERMIT when it is less than 3 feet high and "open". What they say is "like a picket
or split rail". They are not specifically saying it MUST be wood, but that is what
they mean without explicitly stating so. A 3 foot rabbit fence is 90%+ open and has
much less impact against brush than the wooden fence that is there now. In the open
it would not look decorative. We didnt put it in the open, never had any intention
of putting it in the open cause it wouldnt look good. In fact, we had no intention
of every putting up a fence along the "lawn" part of the lot line cause she couldnt
bitch about us cutting back her brush where there was none. But when they really
INSISTED we were cutting onto HER property my mother felt if we didnt establish
property rights they could claim adverse possession in the future. Her lawyer
agreed. In fact, when they sued they CLAIMED adverse possession of the property
right up to the asphalt drive based on their cutting the grass AND the previous
neighbor cutting the grass. Was he ever ****ed when he got dragged into this. My
mother had supplied him with most of the plants he used to construct this beautiful
rock garden next to their house AND he had a little greenhouse and orchids and is
responsible for my orchid addiction. They were very good neighbors.
Ingrid

"Vox Humana" wrote:
Q. Do I need a permit?
A. Yes, except for a decorative fence more than 50% open and less than 3' in
height.
Q. How much will a building permit for a fence cost?
A. $30.00.
Q. Can I put up a fence around my entire yard?
A. Yes, but only if it is a decorative fence more than 50% open and less
than 3' in
height such as a picket or split rail fence.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
 




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