I used composted horse manure in my vegetable garden last year. By the
end of the season bermuda grass had pretty much taken over. I
rototilled the whole thing but am seeing patches of grass comming up
again. I am planning on planting tomato plants in the next couple weeks
(AZ), is there anything I can do to control the grass?

Sad experience there with the horse manure. You might want to compost the
manure, or use manure that's been in a pile a long time; it's pretty strong
stuff anyway, so it will help from that perspective too.

And as you saw or will soon see, it grows from the roots, which tilling
serves to spread around even more.

Many of the herbicides that will control bermuda grass are not intended for
use around vegetables. You should, though, be able to find a herbicide that
lists bermuda grass and IS approved for vegetables, look over the labels
carefully. Make sure you wait the required length of time before you put
any vegetables out, otherwise they'll be affected.

A DEEP mulch over the whole garden (4-6"), or plastic, will provide some
much-needed relief.






"Randy Price" wrote in message
...
I used composted horse manure in my vegetable garden last year. By the
end of the season bermuda grass had pretty much taken over. I
rototilled the whole thing but am seeing patches of grass comming up
again. I am planning on planting tomato plants in the next couple weeks
(AZ), is there anything I can do to control the grass?

Randy Price wrote:

I used composted horse manure in my vegetable garden last year. By the
end of the season bermuda grass had pretty much taken over. I
rototilled the whole thing but am seeing patches of grass comming up
again. I am planning on planting tomato plants in the next couple weeks
(AZ), is there anything I can do to control the grass?

Thermonuclear weapons. But that's only a temporary fix. Hand weeding is
next best. Rototilling is probably the worst thing you can do. Every
little chopped up piece of Bermuda grass is going to be a whole new
plant.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times:
"…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a
powerful politician from a wealthy oil family who is supported by
religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine organizations,
has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and
uses war to deny people their civil liberties. Amen."
Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

I've never dealt with bermuda grass, which I understand is a rather
aggressive grower. But for weeds both perennial and annual in my vegetable
garden, I use newspapers topped with straw mulch. Use several thicknesses
of paper, more for tough weeds, and overlap them. Keep a hose handy to wet
them down as you go, so they don't blow away. Top with a good 6-9 inches of
straw (NOT hay, or you'll just get more weed seeds). I renew this mulch
each spring, and it breaks down and improves the soil. It works especially
well around large individual plants, like peppers and tomatoes; for row
crops I pull it aside, plant the seeds, then pull it back once the plants
are up and growing. This works very well for me; if it is inappropriate for
bermuda grass, I'm sure someone will let me know, in the kindest possible
way 8-).

Cheers,
Sue

Zone 6, Southcentral PA


"Randy Price" wrote in message
...
I used composted horse manure in my vegetable garden last year. By the
end of the season bermuda grass had pretty much taken over. I
rototilled the whole thing but am seeing patches of grass comming up
again. I am planning on planting tomato plants in the next couple weeks
(AZ), is there anything I can do to control the grass?

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote in message
thermonuclear weapons. But that's only a temporary fix. Hand weeding is
next best. Rototilling is probably the worst thing you can do. Every
little chopped up piece of Bermuda grass is going to be a whole new
plant.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Now that thermonuclear option sounds realy tempting, but I'll pass for now.
I heard a couple of years ago, that there was going to be a specific
herbicide, for bermuda, but I haven't seen it yet. If somebody knows of such
a thing, do tell? I'd like to rid my yard of it, I realy prefer a much less
pernicious weed.

I started my garden 10 years ago, when we bought this house. I had no
choice, but to till in the bermuda and other mixed weeds. I used a
Troybuilt, staked out a 50x 50 spot, start in Jan. whenever the ground
wasn't totally frozen, tilled it constantly. In the meantime, I went to
every horse farm in the area, got manure, making sure there was no bermuda
actualy growing near the manure I took. I made compost heaps, not in the
garden. Then, I built a border around the garden. By late April, I was
actualy able to plant a garden that remained bermuda free, with just a
little hand weeding. A good garden at that.
I am trying to make a few points here. One that tilling can actualy help to
get rid of bermuda and other weeds. It is called extinction through
exhaustion. You will have a later garden, because you have to wait until the
bermuda has tried to sprout a few times. And you will haven to remove some
by hand, but that is easier than removing it as sod.
Two, that if you use horse manure, you should compost it yourself separate
from the garden. Make large piles that get hot, turn them
occasionally,givethem time, till them in shortly, before you plant.
Three, you got to have a border.
Four, the problem does get better, but never goes away.
Five, if anybody has a safe way to get rid of this stuff from my yard,
please say something.

Len

A prayer for our times:
".In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a
powerful politician from a wealthy oil family who is supported by
religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine organizations,
has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and
uses war to deny people their civil liberties. Amen."
Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip


P.S I like this one

If somebody knows of such
a thing, do tell?

There's an agricultural product I'm familiar with but it's not labelled for
edible plants, or at least the review I remember reading the other day said
that.

You could use Roundup or Rodeo but I don't think they are either.

"len" wrote in message
...

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote in message
thermonuclear weapons. But that's only a temporary fix. Hand weeding is
next best. Rototilling is probably the worst thing you can do. Every
little chopped up piece of Bermuda grass is going to be a whole new
plant.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Now that thermonuclear option sounds realy tempting, but I'll pass for
now.
I heard a couple of years ago, that there was going to be a specific
herbicide, for bermuda, but I haven't seen it yet. If somebody knows of
such
a thing, do tell? I'd like to rid my yard of it, I realy prefer a much
less
pernicious weed.

I started my garden 10 years ago, when we bought this house. I had no
choice, but to till in the bermuda and other mixed weeds. I used a
Troybuilt, staked out a 50x 50 spot, start in Jan. whenever the ground
wasn't totally frozen, tilled it constantly. In the meantime, I went to
every horse farm in the area, got manure, making sure there was no bermuda
actualy growing near the manure I took. I made compost heaps, not in the
garden. Then, I built a border around the garden. By late April, I was
actualy able to plant a garden that remained bermuda free, with just a
little hand weeding. A good garden at that.
I am trying to make a few points here. One that tilling can actualy help
to
get rid of bermuda and other weeds. It is called extinction through
exhaustion. You will have a later garden, because you have to wait until
the
bermuda has tried to sprout a few times. And you will haven to remove some
by hand, but that is easier than removing it as sod.
Two, that if you use horse manure, you should compost it yourself
separate
from the garden. Make large piles that get hot, turn them
occasionally,givethem time, till them in shortly, before you plant.
Three, you got to have a border.
Four, the problem does get better, but never goes away.
Five, if anybody has a safe way to get rid of this stuff from my yard,
please say something.

Len

A prayer for our times:
".In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a
powerful politician from a wealthy oil family who is supported by
religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine organizations,
has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and
uses war to deny people their civil liberties. Amen."
Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip


P.S I like this one

I compost the horse manure in a tumbler and it gets quite hot but I don't think
enough to kill the seeds. -RP

"SugarChile" wrote in message hlink.net...
I've never dealt with bermuda grass, which I understand is a rather
aggressive grower. But for weeds both perennial and annual in my vegetable
garden, I use newspapers topped with straw mulch. Use several thicknesses
of paper, more for tough weeds, and overlap them. Keep a hose handy to wet
them down as you go, so they don't blow away. Top with a good 6-9 inches of
straw (NOT hay, or you'll just get more weed seeds). I renew this mulch
each spring, and it breaks down and improves the soil. It works especially
well around large individual plants, like peppers and tomatoes; for row
crops I pull it aside, plant the seeds, then pull it back once the plants
are up and growing. This works very well for me; if it is inappropriate for
bermuda grass, I'm sure someone will let me know, in the kindest possible
way 8-).

No, this is the way to do it. One can also use cardboard as a stopper
and wood chips as weight. Same results. Most weeds (in fact, all the
weeds I know except mature horseradish) do not have a root system that
will support them through one year. In case the weeds are seedborne,
it is best not to dig afterward.

A time-honored method of weed control is to pile up all your fencerow brush
on top of the weedy plot and create a long hot fire. Not sure if that fits
with your situation, and not sure it would eliminate bermudagrass.

Vantage and Poast are two herbicides you can use between crops. Follow the
label directions closely.

Exteremely faithful hoeing is good.

The newspaper and mulch idea is good, but the newspaper will decompose about
the time the bermudagrass really gets going. A mulch deep enough and heavy
enough to keep the grass down will help. I think I'll take back my plastic
mulch suggestion, it may introduce other difficulties.

"Randy Price" wrote in message
...
I compost the horse manure in a tumbler and it gets quite hot but I don't
think
enough to kill the seeds. -RP

I don't think it would hurt. Composting helps some with weed control if
your tumbler attains a high enough temperature to kill the seeds that would
help. However in my experience with horse manure (I get mine from a friend
who is very picky about what they eat and everything but as the saying goes
WEEDS HAPPEN). He was looking for weed control from his compost and in
other postings he made he mentioned he had composted it. I have the same
problems even after composting at high heats---that's why I went to the tea
and hole method.

As you know from composting---some weeds require a much higher heat than
others to kill off the seeds which might sprout plants. That's why I
started doing it as a tea and then bury what's left over. The hole where
it's placed produces fantastic soil within a few weeks and I don't have to
worry about what might be located a few feet below the surface as the weeds
don't germinate well at that depth (at least not in my experience)

Timber
www.timberslodge.net
....a Step Through Time

"Randy Price" wrote in message
...
Thanks, would it make sense to compost the manure before brewing the tea?
The
manure breaks down in about a month in my tumbler. -RP

Randy Price wrote:

I used composted horse manure in my vegetable garden last year. By the
end of the season bermuda grass had pretty much taken over. I
rototilled the whole thing but am seeing patches of grass comming up
again. I am planning on planting tomato plants in the next couple weeks
(AZ), is there anything I can do to control the grass?


Is it coastal bermuda, or common bermuda? Here's why it makes a
difference: coastal bermuda does not set viable seeds, and common bermuda
does. So if the weed grass is coastal, you don't have to worry about more
seeds germinating -- the manure was just contaminated with grass stollens.
If you don't know, assume it is common bermuda.

I would use Round Up to get it under control, then dig it out by hand
whenever I saw a piece of if sprouting back.

The only sure way to get rid of bermuda grass is to move. ;-)

Be glad that it is not johnson grass.

Good luck,
Bob

--
Have a Windows® computer that is powered on for hours at a time? Join the
search for a cure for cancer: http://grid.org/projects/cancer/

Whatever it is it sends out string like stems that root themselves every 8 to
12 inches. The stems are tough, they tangle in my rototiller. -RP