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Technical Difference - Fruit vs Vegetable



 
 
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  #1  
Old 15-10-2004, 06:22 AM
Antipodean Bucket Farmer
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Default Technical Difference - Fruit vs Vegetable

Hi, Everybody,

While this might sound absurdly obvious, this question
is *not* a troll.

Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?

I looked it up at

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fruit

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vegetable

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gourd

But it isn't quite clear.

I know that apples, oranges, bananas, and tomatoes are
considered fruits.

I *think* that lettuce, spinach, broccoli, couliflower
are vegetables.

But what about capsicum (bell pepper),
courgettes/zucchini, or cucumbers? I always thought
that they were vegetables, but they have seeds in them.
Are they technically fruit? What distinguishes a
gourd?


Can anyone tell me the plain-english rule on this?

Thanks in advance...

Ads
  #2  
Old 15-10-2004, 09:28 AM
Stan Goodman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:22:32 UTC, Antipodean Bucket Farmer
opined:

Hi, Everybody,

While this might sound absurdly obvious, this question
is *not* a troll.


You are right about that. However, if you are really as confused as you say:

Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?


Anything that is not an animal or a mineral must be a vegetable. The
vegetable is the entire plant, from roots to blossom and fruit (in the case
of flowering plants). In the realm of microorganisms, it is not always clear
what is an animal and what is a vegetable, so the distinction breaks down,
but I don't think that is what the question is about. The fruit is part of
the reproductive apparatus of flowering plants, and contains the seeds. It
should not be hard for most people to see what is the fruit, and what is the
rest of the vegetable. All that is botanical definition. Inasmuch as this
group is devoted to gardening, it is the governing definition.

Culinary definition is much more shaky, for obvious reasons. For the most
part, a botanical "fruit" is not a culinary "fruit" unless you can make a
dessert around it. Thus the fruits of eggplant, capsicum, tomato are not
culinary "fruits" because they aren't sweet; yet the fruit of the avocado is
a culinary "fruit", perhaps because that is so obvious, even to cooks. The
fruits of walnut trees and oaks aren't culinary "fruits" because of the
arbitrary nature of culinary definition. For more information on culinary
definitions, post your question on a group concerned with cooking.




I looked it up at

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fruit

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vegetable

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gourd

But it isn't quite clear.

I know that apples, oranges, bananas, and tomatoes are
considered fruits.

I *think* that lettuce, spinach, broccoli, couliflower
are vegetables.

But what about capsicum (bell pepper),
courgettes/zucchini, or cucumbers? I always thought
that they were vegetables, but they have seeds in them.
Are they technically fruit? What distinguishes a
gourd?


Can anyone tell me the plain-english rule on this?

Thanks in advance...



--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel


Saddam is gone. Ceterum, censeo Arafat esse delendam.

  #3  
Old 15-10-2004, 01:21 PM
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote:
............
.................
Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?..............................


Even though you have received a very thorough answer, let me try a short
version:

Between fruit and vegetable, it isn't either/or because most vegetables
produce some sort of fruit in their life cycle if you grow them to maturity.
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the root. (carrots)
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the leaves. (spinach)
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the seeds. (corn)
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the developing flower head.
(broccoli)
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the fruit. (tomatoes)
etc.
etc.

Steve
  #4  
Old 15-10-2004, 01:21 PM
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote:
............
.................
Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?..............................


Even though you have received a very thorough answer, let me try a short
version:

Between fruit and vegetable, it isn't either/or because most vegetables
produce some sort of fruit in their life cycle if you grow them to maturity.
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the root. (carrots)
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the leaves. (spinach)
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the seeds. (corn)
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the developing flower head.
(broccoli)
With some vegetables, the part you eat is the fruit. (tomatoes)
etc.
etc.

Steve
  #5  
Old 15-10-2004, 06:00 PM
Alfred Falk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote in
:

Hi, Everybody,

While this might sound absurdly obvious, this question
is *not* a troll.

Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?

I looked it up at

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fruit

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vegetable

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gourd

But it isn't quite clear.

I know that apples, oranges, bananas, and tomatoes are
considered fruits.

I *think* that lettuce, spinach, broccoli, couliflower
are vegetables.

But what about capsicum (bell pepper),
courgettes/zucchini, or cucumbers? I always thought
that they were vegetables, but they have seeds in them.
Are they technically fruit? What distinguishes a
gourd?


Can anyone tell me the plain-english rule on this?


You've already got some good answers on this, but I'll add my own 2
cents. The "problem" arises because we have two different usage
systems:
1. "ordinary English", where the distinction between f & v has mostly to
do with how we use the material, rather than plant physiology.
2. "Scientific botanical English" where the distinction between f & v is
strictly based on plant physiology.

Sometimes the two coincide, sometimes they don't. The conflict "is a
tomato a fruit or vegetable?" is artificial.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
A L B E R T A Alfred Falk
R E S E A R C H Information Systems Dept (780)450-5185
C O U N C I L 250 Karl Clark Road
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
http://www.arc.ab.ca/ T6N 1E4
http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/
  #6  
Old 15-10-2004, 06:00 PM
Alfred Falk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote in
:

Hi, Everybody,

While this might sound absurdly obvious, this question
is *not* a troll.

Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?

I looked it up at

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fruit

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vegetable

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gourd

But it isn't quite clear.

I know that apples, oranges, bananas, and tomatoes are
considered fruits.

I *think* that lettuce, spinach, broccoli, couliflower
are vegetables.

But what about capsicum (bell pepper),
courgettes/zucchini, or cucumbers? I always thought
that they were vegetables, but they have seeds in them.
Are they technically fruit? What distinguishes a
gourd?


Can anyone tell me the plain-english rule on this?


You've already got some good answers on this, but I'll add my own 2
cents. The "problem" arises because we have two different usage
systems:
1. "ordinary English", where the distinction between f & v has mostly to
do with how we use the material, rather than plant physiology.
2. "Scientific botanical English" where the distinction between f & v is
strictly based on plant physiology.

Sometimes the two coincide, sometimes they don't. The conflict "is a
tomato a fruit or vegetable?" is artificial.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
A L B E R T A Alfred Falk
R E S E A R C H Information Systems Dept (780)450-5185
C O U N C I L 250 Karl Clark Road
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
http://www.arc.ab.ca/ T6N 1E4
http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/
  #7  
Old 15-10-2004, 06:28 PM
Stan Goodman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:46:17 UTC, belly opined:

On 15 Oct 2004 08:28:38 GMT in
uViCr8LlbtmJ-pn2-7oQbg9Elrxen@poblano, "Stan Goodman"
graced the world with this thought:

For the most
part, a botanical "fruit" is not a culinary "fruit" unless you can make a
dessert around it


mmmmm.... avocado pudding....


Terribly sorry. I was focussed on trying to relate seriously to a query that
even the questioner knew was troll-like. I did remember, however, to hedge
that sentence with "for the most part". And, for the most part, people seem
to understood that.

--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel


Saddam is gone. Ceterum, censeo Arafat esse delendam.

  #8  
Old 15-10-2004, 06:28 PM
Stan Goodman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:46:17 UTC, belly opined:

On 15 Oct 2004 08:28:38 GMT in
uViCr8LlbtmJ-pn2-7oQbg9Elrxen@poblano, "Stan Goodman"
graced the world with this thought:

For the most
part, a botanical "fruit" is not a culinary "fruit" unless you can make a
dessert around it


mmmmm.... avocado pudding....


Terribly sorry. I was focussed on trying to relate seriously to a query that
even the questioner knew was troll-like. I did remember, however, to hedge
that sentence with "for the most part". And, for the most part, people seem
to understood that.

--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel


Saddam is gone. Ceterum, censeo Arafat esse delendam.

  #9  
Old 16-10-2004, 08:56 PM
Tim Tyler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote or quoted:

Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?


Dunno if it's very technical - but:

``Definition of fruit and vegetable''

- http://www.comevisit.com/chuckali/definition/
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
  #10  
Old 17-10-2004, 12:06 AM
Stan Goodman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:56:15 UTC, Tim Tyler opined:

Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote or quoted:

Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?


Dunno if it's very technical - but:

``Definition of fruit and vegetable''

- http://www.comevisit.com/chuckali/definition/


But it's incorrect, because it confuses botanical and culinary definitions:
it says a vegetable is something that is grown to eat, but is not a fruit.
That he has to go out of his way to state explicitly that rhubarb is not a
fruit even though you can make pies from it should tell you a lot.

Why is it difficult to understand that a vegetable is something that is
neither animal nor mineral, and a fruit is a specific part of a flowering
plant that contains the seed(s)?


--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel


Saddam is gone. Ceterum, censeo Arafat esse delendam.

  #11  
Old 17-10-2004, 12:06 AM
Stan Goodman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:56:15 UTC, Tim Tyler opined:

Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote or quoted:

Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?


Dunno if it's very technical - but:

``Definition of fruit and vegetable''

- http://www.comevisit.com/chuckali/definition/


But it's incorrect, because it confuses botanical and culinary definitions:
it says a vegetable is something that is grown to eat, but is not a fruit.
That he has to go out of his way to state explicitly that rhubarb is not a
fruit even though you can make pies from it should tell you a lot.

Why is it difficult to understand that a vegetable is something that is
neither animal nor mineral, and a fruit is a specific part of a flowering
plant that contains the seed(s)?


--
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel


Saddam is gone. Ceterum, censeo Arafat esse delendam.

  #12  
Old 17-10-2004, 04:25 AM
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Stan Goodman wrote:
.................................................. ..... ..
Why is it difficult to understand that a vegetable is something that is
neither animal nor mineral, and a fruit is a specific part of a flowering
plant that contains the seed(s)?



It seems so simple doesn't it? I've explained it to people face to
face, only to get a blank stare back from them. I guess it's hard for
some to turn their mind around to botany when they have only been
thinking about cooking for so long.

Steve

  #13  
Old 17-10-2004, 04:25 AM
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Stan Goodman wrote:
.................................................. ..... ..
Why is it difficult to understand that a vegetable is something that is
neither animal nor mineral, and a fruit is a specific part of a flowering
plant that contains the seed(s)?



It seems so simple doesn't it? I've explained it to people face to
face, only to get a blank stare back from them. I guess it's hard for
some to turn their mind around to botany when they have only been
thinking about cooking for so long.

Steve

  #14  
Old 17-10-2004, 04:25 AM
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Stan Goodman wrote:
.................................................. ..... ..
Why is it difficult to understand that a vegetable is something that is
neither animal nor mineral, and a fruit is a specific part of a flowering
plant that contains the seed(s)?



It seems so simple doesn't it? I've explained it to people face to
face, only to get a blank stare back from them. I guess it's hard for
some to turn their mind around to botany when they have only been
thinking about cooking for so long.

Steve

  #15  
Old 17-10-2004, 08:53 AM
Tim Tyler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Stan Goodman wrote or quoted:
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:56:15 UTC, Tim Tyler opined:
Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote or quoted:


Technically speaking, what is the difference between a
fruit and a vegetable?


Dunno if it's very technical - but:

``Definition of fruit and vegetable''

- http://www.comevisit.com/chuckali/definition/


But it's incorrect, because it confuses botanical and culinary definitions:


Obviously, these are not botanical definitions.

Why is it difficult to understand that a vegetable is something that is
neither animal nor mineral [...]


Because of mushrooms and bacteria ;-)

and a fruit is a specific part of a flowering plant that contains the
seed(s)?


Because of beans, strawberries and cashew apples ;-)
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
 




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