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#16
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How do i soften my water
Exactly! That's why I said everyone's experience is different. I'm sure
somewhere out there someone bred neons in water even harder than 375ppm softened and acidified by peat. I didn't soften the water or lower it's PH No. The calcium blocks the sperm receptor sites and the egg cannot be fertilized in hard water. This is why for years and years neons were considered difficult if not impossible to breed until this was figured out. The McInnery book has the best treatise on this. I've kept neons and cardinals for years in hard water. Lots of poeple have. The thing about acid water is it keeps to a certain extent, bacteria at bay. I always suspect clenliness, not pH or hardness when people have trouble with blackwater fish. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#17
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How do i soften my water
Hi..
I've kept neons and cardinals for years in hard water. Lots of people have. Are "cardinals" == Tanichthys albonubes..? They are still hard water fish(es). The thing about acid water is it keeps to a certain extent, bacteria at bay. I always suspect clenliness, not pH or hardness when people have trouble with blackwater fish. Soft blackwater is clean because bacteria do not prefer such conditions. And this is why soft and clean water is ideal for several soft water species.. -- cu Marco |
#18
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How do i soften my water
"Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... Exactly! That's why I said everyone's experience is different. I'm sure somewhere out there someone bred neons in water even harder than 375ppm softened and acidified by peat. I didn't soften the water or lower it's PH No. The calcium blocks the sperm receptor sites and the egg cannot be fertilized in hard water. This is why for years and years neons were considered difficult if not impossible to breed until this was figured out. The McInnery book has the best treatise on this. I've kept neons and cardinals for years in hard water. Lots of poeple have. The thing about acid water is it keeps to a certain extent, bacteria at bay. I always suspect clenliness, not pH or hardness when people have trouble with blackwater fish. ======================================== These terta deaths may well have something to do with bacteria, and the bacteria these blackwater fish can and can't tolerate. But there is no way to control which bacteria are growing in our tanks. All we can do is keep the gravel and filters as clean (unclogged) as possible. I would assume an alkaline hard water tank would indeed have different bacteria than a blackwater tank. That makes perfect sense. Perhaps some blackwater fish adapt to this bacteria, and some don't. There may be other unknown reasons as well that some adapt and others don't. -- KL.... Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#19
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How do i soften my water
In article ,
Marco Schwarz wrote: Hi.. I've kept neons and cardinals for years in hard water. Lots of people have. Are "cardinals" == Tanichthys albonubes..? No. In north america "neon" means Hypessobrycon innesi and Cardinal refers to Paracheirodon axelrodi. T. albonubes is called "White cloud mountain minnow" or just "white cloud" here. They are still hard water fish(es). The thing about acid water is it keeps to a certain extent, bacteria at bay. I always suspect clenliness, not pH or hardness when people have trouble with blackwater fish. Soft blackwater is clean because bacteria do not prefer such conditions. And this is why soft and clean water is ideal for several soft water species.. Depends on the bacteria. Scheel reported in _ROTOW_ that Mycobacteria does not do at all well in hard water but he suffered great losses from this pathogen when he kept wild caught fishes frim soft water in soft water tanks. What he would do was always keep them in hard water then only breed them in soft water. He also found that in hard water the gonads would not develop but found that peat extract (or any source of gonaditropine, and you may not want to ask) would cause the sex organs to mature; into soft water, breed, then quick back to hard water. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#21
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How do i soften my water
Hi..
No. In north america "neon" means Hypessobrycon innesi and Cardinal refers to Paracheirodon axelrodi. Thanks, should have asked Google in advance.. "White cloud mountain minnow" or just "white cloud" here. This is exactely where they come from or what "albonubes" means.. Depends on the bacteria. Scheel reported in _ROTOW_ that Mycobacteria does not do at all well in hard water but he suffered great losses from this pathogen when he kept wild caught fishes frim soft water in soft water tanks. Well, only a minority of wild caught fishes will reach us fish keepers and these fishes are often apathetic and ill. Means their immune system is weak, too.. Some fish species are used to change from softer to harder water and back. Others seem to spend their complete life in soft or soft _and_ acid water.. The softer the water the more energy do fishes need to transport diffusing water back to outside. This is a kidneys job and the kidneys are always in danger to loose important ions. And the management of the ion pumps that hold these ions back consume a lot of energy.. And this is why weak and apathetic soft water wild caught fishes often aren't able to manage both: to fight the pathogens back and to keep their ion pumps effectively running.. But after their recovery they can return to soft water, step by step adapted over a timeframe of 3-4 weeks.. BTW: We are used to keep soft water fishes in soft water and they feel well. Initiated by soft water their kidneys are steadily "rinsed" and in this way and in the long term they aren't in danger to get a renal insufficiency.. What he would do was always keep them in hard water then only breed them in soft water. Hmm.., see above-mentioned.. He also found that in hard water the gonads would not develop but found that peat extract (or any source of gonaditropine, and you may not want to ask) would cause the sex organs to mature; into soft water, breed, then quick back to hard water.. -- cu Marco |
#22
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How do i soften my water - electrolites
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Marco Schwarz" wrote in message ... \ The softer the water the more energy do fishes need to transport diffusing water back to outside. This is a kidneys job and the kidneys are always in danger to loose important ions. And the management of the ion pumps that hold these ions back consume a lot of energy.. Which I believe is involved (electrolytes) in these soft water, low PH water fish being unable to thrive in very hard alkaline water. Bacteria may also play a part but I believe it's more of an electrolyte problem. BTW: We are used to keep soft water fishes in soft water and they feel well. Initiated by soft water their kidneys are steadily "rinsed" and in this way and in the long term they aren't in danger to get a renal insufficiency.. Which may be what killed the small tetras I tried to keep here in TN. Rather than try and keep fish that don't thrive in my water I will stick with those that do. :-) -- KL.... Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#23
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How do i soften my water - electrolites
Ah go **** yourself Carol no one here or anywhere else gives a flying
**** abuyt you and your tetras or any thing else you ramble on about. Your assinine ramblings and socks are the reason these groups are like they are, so don;t go laying the blame on others for yur own ****ups and one sided ways in your perverted world that only hinges on what is best for you and youo alone. Someone really needs to knock you in the ****ing head and tell god you died. I doubt anyone would even miss you. Opinon is the whole thing and carols do not count. On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:34:33 -0500, "Koi-Lo" ¤?¤@ö½.Õ..Õ¢ wrote: *Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups. "Marco Schwarz" wrote in message ... \ The softer the water the more energy do fishes need to transport diffusing water back to outside. This is a kidneys job and the kidneys are always in danger to loose important ions. And the management of the ion pumps that hold these ions back consume a lot of energy.. Which I believe is involved (electrolytes) in these soft water, low PH water fish being unable to thrive in very hard alkaline water. Bacteria may also play a part but I believe it's more of an electrolyte problem. BTW: We are used to keep soft water fishes in soft water and they feel well. Initiated by soft water their kidneys are steadily "rinsed" and in this way and in the long term they aren't in danger to get a renal insufficiency.. Which may be what killed the small tetras I tried to keep here in TN. Rather than try and keep fish that don't thrive in my water I will stick with those that do. :-) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#24
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How do i soften my water
Well, only a minority of wild caught fishes will reach us
fish keepers and these fishes are often apathetic and ill. Means their immune system is weak, too.. We do ok here. I see a lot fewe losses in stores these days. Maybe they're finally getting the hang of it or maybe they die before making it to shops I don't know. Some fish species are used to change from softer to harder water and back. Others seem to spend their complete life in soft or soft _and_ acid water.. Well, little odd killifihs from gabon spend their lives i npeay soft acid pools and do fine in LA tapwater whihc is 17Dh or something liek that. Similarly so other exotic and tochy rainwater killies. I don't uy at all there exists a sof****er fich than cannot live in hard water. The opposite may well be true though. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#25
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How do i soften my water
Hi..
We do ok here. I see a lot fewe losses in stores these days. Maybe they're finally getting the hang of it or maybe they die before making it to shops I don't know. Think positive.. ;-) Well, little odd killifihs from gabon spend their lives i npeay soft acid pools and do fine in LA tapwater whihc is 17Dh or something liek that. An annual species..? Does it have a common name..? Similarly so other exotic and tochy rainwater killies. I don't uy at all there exists a sof****er fich than cannot live in hard water. The opposite may well be true though. Of course they will survive in harder water and might feel well for a while - for a while..! -- cu Marco |
#26
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How do i soften my water
In article ,
Marco Schwarz wrote: Hi.. We do ok here. I see a lot fewe losses in stores these days. Maybe they're finally getting the hang of it or maybe they die before making it to shops I don't know. Think positive.. ;-) Well, little odd killifihs from gabon spend their lives i npeay soft acid pools and do fine in LA tapwater whihc is 17Dh or something liek that. An annual species..? Does it have a common name..? The entire genus Ahyosemion. And every other genus of killi. I'm not aware of any that can not be kept in hard water (albeit they MUST breed in soft water). There are hardwater killies (pupfish ans such) that will definitly die in too soft of water. Similarly so other exotic and tochy rainwater killies. I don't uy at all there exists a sof****er fich than cannot live in hard water. The opposite may well be true though. Of course they will survive in harder water and might feel well for a while - for a while..! Long while buddy! Years and years. Tetras, barbs, dwarf cichlids, angels, tetras, they all do fine long term in hard water IME. Just one data point. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#27
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How do i soften my water
Hi..
The entire genus Ahyosemion. And every other genus of killi. I'm not aware of any that can not be kept in hard water (albeit they MUST breed in soft water). There are hardwater killies (pupfish ans such) that will definitly die in too soft of water. It wasn't my purpose to declare each killi to be a soft water fish. Long while buddy! Years and years. Tetras, barbs, dwarf cichlids, angels, tetras, they all do fine long term in hard water IME. More or less *long* buddy! -- cu Marco, coming from a different fish keeping tradition.. |
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