Went on a collection trip today, at Crum Creek in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania. Picked up two interesting plants, one a pretty stem
plant, with somewhat red stems and green, almost scalloped thin
leaves. The other a moss.

http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg
This is the first plant. Found it in Smedley Park, in about one foot
of slow moving water. Water temperature felt cool. If I had to
estimate I'd say it was arond 50F. Substrate was mostly silt and
river gravel. The plant did have a root system. It did not attach to
larger rocks, and was found only in the gravel and silt. The stand of
plants was fairly large, covering large portions of a two foot square
area.

http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg
This moss was found in another part of the creek, in fast moving
waters. It did not attach to silt or gravel, and was only found on
rocks. The sample I collected also contained a planaria (my first
one! Whee!) numerous amphipods, several small limpet like inverts, and
a few swimming things that were too small for me to ID without my
microscope.

There was also the usual giant stands of anacharis, but as I already
had more of that than I know what to do with, I refrained from
collecting any. In the past, I've seen various grasses in this area
as well. I'm not at all sure if they were marginal or truly aquatic,
but since I didn't see any on this trip, it was a moot point.

Are there any folks out there who happen to recognize these plants? I
do have access to some macrophotography equipment, and possibly a
microscope if either will help in the identification.

Thanks!
--
"Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick!
Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub
Abraham Evangelista

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg

This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s
occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any
other aquatic plant genus. Good luck acclimating it to "tropical"
temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It
grows around here, too.

http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg

Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff.

Disinfect with alum to kill nasties which abound in it.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:32:46 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg

This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s
occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any
other aquatic plant genus.

Woohoo! Got a weed! Actually, the more I look at it, the more I like
it. The contrast between the nice green leaves and the almost red
stem makes it attractive when compared to all the straight green
plants currently in the tank. (Anacharis, Hornwort, Bladderwort, M

Good luck acclimating it to "tropical"
temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It
grows around here, too.

Hasn't died yet. In fact, the bit that I had in the CO2/EI grow out
tank has put on nearly an inch. Sadly, that tank also cracked on me
tonight, so everything that was growing out is now sitting in a
bucket. :-(

http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg

Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff.

That's not good... The growout tank wasn't heated, but a 10 gallon
indoors with a powerhead and some intense lighting kept it pretty
toasty. I suppose this means it isn't gonna care for the tropical
tank eh? A shame... it seemed quite attractive!

Disinfect with alum to kill nasties which abound in it.

Did the bleach thing, but not before shaking off the various amphipods
and copepods into a jar. Maybe I'll treat the fish later this week!
--
"Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick!
Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub
Abraham Evangelista

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:32:46 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:
In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg

This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s
occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any
other aquatic plant genus.

Woohoo! Got a weed! Actually, the more I look at it, the more I like
it. The contrast between the nice green leaves and the almost red
stem makes it attractive when compared to all the straight green
plants currently in the tank. (Anacharis, Hornwort, Bladderwort, M

Barr has convinced me that red in plants is from poor nitrogen - in
the lack of sifficient N they made red pigments not green and he does
seem to be right about that. While I have no direct experience with
this plant (other than killing some of its cousins) don't be surpeised
if in grows in as green, not red, stemmage wise.

Good luck acclimating it to "tropical"
temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It
grows around here, too.

Hasn't died yet. In fact, the bit that I had in the CO2/EI grow out
tank has put on nearly an inch. Sadly, that tank also cracked on me
tonight, so everything that was growing out is now sitting in a
bucket. :-(

Bummer. How did it crack? Are you just going to silicone a sheet of glass over
it or replace the tank. From personal experience plants don't last long in buckets
at all. They look ok from the top but when you take them out you might find the
only thing left if the part that looks good on the top.

http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg

Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff.

That's not good... The growout tank wasn't heated, but a 10 gallon
indoors with a powerhead and some intense lighting kept it pretty
toasty. I suppose this means it isn't gonna care for the tropical
tank eh? A shame... it seemed quite attractive!

Wellllll, it manages ok at lower light. So an unheated tank with a small
fluorescent would keep it alive.

Good luck with both. I've love to hear they survived and look forward to
pictures of them growing madly.


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:37:15 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:32:46 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:
In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg

This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s
occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any
other aquatic plant genus.

Woohoo! Got a weed! Actually, the more I look at it, the more I like
it. The contrast between the nice green leaves and the almost red
stem makes it attractive when compared to all the straight green
plants currently in the tank. (Anacharis, Hornwort, Bladderwort, M

Barr has convinced me that red in plants is from poor nitrogen - in
the lack of sifficient N they made red pigments not green and he does
seem to be right about that.

I'm still sorting through the wealth of information available on his
site. Subscribed when I picked up my ferts from Greg Watson. I
wonder, does this rule apply to plants that are "supposed" to be red?
I have some bronze and red Crypt. wendetti, and some "Red Hygro" that
turns a nice deep red where it gets light at the top of the tank.

The growth below was nice and red too, but now it's nice and back, as
in red algae, owing to a lack of light. The new shoots coming out
from the bottom of the stand are coming out bright green, so I wonder
if it's not a question of light.

While I have no direct experience with
this plant (other than killing some of its cousins) don't be surpeised
if in grows in as green, not red, stemmage wise.

Along those same lines, I have some of that Potamogeton in a 2 gallon
"nano" hex I'm working on. The stems are looking more brownish now,
instead of red. In addition, the Cabomba which entered the tank with
deep red stems is now showing stems as bright green as the fronds. A
piece of "Red hygro" I have growing in the nano is also still red. I'm
doing Seachem's flourish ferts, including excel. FWIW, the piece of
hornwort I stuck in this tank has doubled in size over the last week,
and no longer shows the brown/black algae coating that it shows in
the 55 gallon, so perhaps the excel is doing the job, or perhaps I'm
getting my fert routine right in the hex.

I'm having a slight resurgence of the black and brown algae in the 55
that I thought I had licked when I went onto the EI method. I'm
currently using Greg Watson's premix PMDD+CSM, 1 tsp every other day.
(1 part KNO3, 1 part K2SO3, 1 part MgSO4, and 1 part CSM w/ boron
mix.)

At the end of a 2 day period, I'm showing no measurable nitrates, and
even after adding the mix, I only show 5ppm. I even feed rather
heavily, three times a day, and the tank is far from lightly stocked.
To make a long story short, I'm thinking that the nitrate levels shown
indicate that you're correct, and that I am indeed nitrogen limited in
this tank.

My current gameplan is:

1) Spread out my water changes. I was doing 50% once a week. I'll
add another day on the end, and see if this doesn't help with the
concentrations a little.

2) Stop vaccuming the gravel. I HAD nitrates, till I vacuumed during
the last water change. I've added malasyian trumpet snails to deal
with substrate compaction issues, so I think at this point, I'll just
let the mulm collect. I really only vacuumed for asthetic reasons,
and frankly, mulm is less unatractive than algae, so given the choice
between the two, I'll pick the mulm.

3) Adjust dosing of PMDD mix till I can sustain a level of 5ppm
nitrates over night. This is the lowest level the test kit I own can
measure, and if it measures at all, it means that the plants were
unable to utilize it all, meaning I should no longer be nitrogen
limited. The whole point of EI is to ensure that everything is in a
slight excess, correct? If I'm not showing nitrates, then they're not
in excess, ergo, it's time to up the dosing.

Am I on the right track here?


Good luck acclimating it to "tropical"
temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It
grows around here, too.

Hasn't died yet. In fact, the bit that I had in the CO2/EI grow out
tank has put on nearly an inch. Sadly, that tank also cracked on me
tonight, so everything that was growing out is now sitting in a
bucket. :-(

Bummer. How did it crack?

I had it on a sheet of styrofoam, on top of a wire shelf. The shelf
is rated to support the weight of the tank, but of course, wires
weren't the best choice for a surface on which to place a tank. I had
the styrofoam there to spead the weight across the wires, but from the
looks of the crack, it seems that the tank weight compressed the
sytrofoam more where the frame was, until the foam was eventually
pressing back up on the bottom glass, causing the crack.

Are you just going to silicone a sheet of glass over
it or replace the tank.

I'm not sure it's economical to bother replacing the tank. Having a
piece of glass cut for the bottom is gonna cost me for the
glasscutter's labor, and for the glass. A replacement 10 gallon is
only $10 USD here, so it might end up cheaper for me to just buy
another tank, and save this one for sides/spares. Maybe I can use it
as a terrarium.

From personal experience plants don't last long in buckets
at all. They look ok from the top but when you take them out you might find the
only thing left if the part that looks good on the top.

I had been growing out cuttings, and some less than spectacular
specimins from the LFS in that tank, both to trade for credit at the
LFS, and to have enough plants to fill out a 30 gallon I was intending
to set up. (The 30 was intended to house some refugee platys from the
summer pond.)

The crack in the grow out has accelerated my plans. Friday saw me set
up the stand, take the tank out of storage, fill it with substrate, (2
inches plain kitty litter, 1 inch of play sand, Jobes fert sticks
every so often) and water. A filter borrowed from the 55 gallon
(Which I had been intending to use anyway) and a packet of bio-spira
provided a rapid start cycle, and the plants went in saturday
afternoon, and the fish saturday evening. So far, no ammonia, no
nitrates, despite the dozen or so adult platies, multiple dozens of
guppy fry (I hadn't managed to get all the feeders out of the pond
before they bred!) and the three fat corys. With luck, biospiral will
live up to its claims, and the numbers will still look good tommorrow.

I had intended to use the growout tank with EI and intense lighting,
so I wouldn't have to do the same on the 30. Looks like I'll just
have to do EI on the 30 too, till I get enough plant matter
established to avoid the algal blooms.


http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg

Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff.

That's not good... The growout tank wasn't heated, but a 10 gallon
indoors with a powerhead and some intense lighting kept it pretty
toasty. I suppose this means it isn't gonna care for the tropical
tank eh? A shame... it seemed quite attractive!

Wellllll, it manages ok at lower light. So an unheated tank with a small
fluorescent would keep it alive.

Again, the bit I've got in the hex is showing growth. It's not
spectacular like the hornwort, but to be fair, I've never met a moss
that grew rapidly. There's some in the 55 too, but I can't check its
progress since it's hidden behind more hornwort.

I suppose this means I need less hornwort. :-)

Good luck with both. I've love to hear they survived and look forward to
pictures of them growing madly.

Well I've been keeping tabs on both plants, I'll give it a few more
days and then we can compare to see how it responds in EI, Seachem,
and unaided conditions.
--
"Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick!
Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub
Abraham Evangelista

I use a piece of 10mm (About 3/8 inch) ply under all my tanks, then a sheet
of 3-5mm high density foam rubber then the tank.

I use a few heavy rocks in some of my tanks and the way I see it if I drop
one of these in a tank without the ply it will go straight through, with the
ply the worst should be a crack rather than a sudden catastrophic failure!


"Abraham Evangelista" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:37:15 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:32:46 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:
In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_1_small.jpg

This is a Potamogeton species. Very, cosmopolitan this genus s
occurs everywhere except the poles and has mores epcies in it than any
other aquatic plant genus.

Woohoo! Got a weed! Actually, the more I look at it, the more I like
it. The contrast between the nice green leaves and the almost red
stem makes it attractive when compared to all the straight green
plants currently in the tank. (Anacharis, Hornwort, Bladderwort, M

Barr has convinced me that red in plants is from poor nitrogen - in
the lack of sifficient N they made red pigments not green and he does
seem to be right about that.

I'm still sorting through the wealth of information available on his
site. Subscribed when I picked up my ferts from Greg Watson. I
wonder, does this rule apply to plants that are "supposed" to be red?
I have some bronze and red Crypt. wendetti, and some "Red Hygro" that
turns a nice deep red where it gets light at the top of the tank.

The growth below was nice and red too, but now it's nice and back, as
in red algae, owing to a lack of light. The new shoots coming out
from the bottom of the stand are coming out bright green, so I wonder
if it's not a question of light.

While I have no direct experience with
this plant (other than killing some of its cousins) don't be surpeised
if in grows in as green, not red, stemmage wise.

Along those same lines, I have some of that Potamogeton in a 2 gallon
"nano" hex I'm working on. The stems are looking more brownish now,
instead of red. In addition, the Cabomba which entered the tank with
deep red stems is now showing stems as bright green as the fronds. A
piece of "Red hygro" I have growing in the nano is also still red. I'm
doing Seachem's flourish ferts, including excel. FWIW, the piece of
hornwort I stuck in this tank has doubled in size over the last week,
and no longer shows the brown/black algae coating that it shows in
the 55 gallon, so perhaps the excel is doing the job, or perhaps I'm
getting my fert routine right in the hex.

I'm having a slight resurgence of the black and brown algae in the 55
that I thought I had licked when I went onto the EI method. I'm
currently using Greg Watson's premix PMDD+CSM, 1 tsp every other day.
(1 part KNO3, 1 part K2SO3, 1 part MgSO4, and 1 part CSM w/ boron
mix.)

At the end of a 2 day period, I'm showing no measurable nitrates, and
even after adding the mix, I only show 5ppm. I even feed rather
heavily, three times a day, and the tank is far from lightly stocked.
To make a long story short, I'm thinking that the nitrate levels shown
indicate that you're correct, and that I am indeed nitrogen limited in
this tank.

My current gameplan is:

1) Spread out my water changes. I was doing 50% once a week. I'll
add another day on the end, and see if this doesn't help with the
concentrations a little.

2) Stop vaccuming the gravel. I HAD nitrates, till I vacuumed during
the last water change. I've added malasyian trumpet snails to deal
with substrate compaction issues, so I think at this point, I'll just
let the mulm collect. I really only vacuumed for asthetic reasons,
and frankly, mulm is less unatractive than algae, so given the choice
between the two, I'll pick the mulm.

3) Adjust dosing of PMDD mix till I can sustain a level of 5ppm
nitrates over night. This is the lowest level the test kit I own can
measure, and if it measures at all, it means that the plants were
unable to utilize it all, meaning I should no longer be nitrogen
limited. The whole point of EI is to ensure that everything is in a
slight excess, correct? If I'm not showing nitrates, then they're not
in excess, ergo, it's time to up the dosing.

Am I on the right track here?


Good luck acclimating it to "tropical"
temperatures and non-dormancy in winter. I've never had any luck. It
grows around here, too.

Hasn't died yet. In fact, the bit that I had in the CO2/EI grow out
tank has put on nearly an inch. Sadly, that tank also cracked on me
tonight, so everything that was growing out is now sitting in a
bucket. :-(

Bummer. How did it crack?

I had it on a sheet of styrofoam, on top of a wire shelf. The shelf
is rated to support the weight of the tank, but of course, wires
weren't the best choice for a surface on which to place a tank. I had
the styrofoam there to spead the weight across the wires, but from the
looks of the crack, it seems that the tank weight compressed the
sytrofoam more where the frame was, until the foam was eventually
pressing back up on the bottom glass, causing the crack.

Are you just going to silicone a sheet of glass over
it or replace the tank.

I'm not sure it's economical to bother replacing the tank. Having a
piece of glass cut for the bottom is gonna cost me for the
glasscutter's labor, and for the glass. A replacement 10 gallon is
only $10 USD here, so it might end up cheaper for me to just buy
another tank, and save this one for sides/spares. Maybe I can use it
as a terrarium.

From personal experience plants don't last long in buckets
at all. They look ok from the top but when you take them out you might
find the
only thing left if the part that looks good on the top.

I had been growing out cuttings, and some less than spectacular
specimins from the LFS in that tank, both to trade for credit at the
LFS, and to have enough plants to fill out a 30 gallon I was intending
to set up. (The 30 was intended to house some refugee platys from the
summer pond.)

The crack in the grow out has accelerated my plans. Friday saw me set
up the stand, take the tank out of storage, fill it with substrate, (2
inches plain kitty litter, 1 inch of play sand, Jobes fert sticks
every so often) and water. A filter borrowed from the 55 gallon
(Which I had been intending to use anyway) and a packet of bio-spira
provided a rapid start cycle, and the plants went in saturday
afternoon, and the fish saturday evening. So far, no ammonia, no
nitrates, despite the dozen or so adult platies, multiple dozens of
guppy fry (I hadn't managed to get all the feeders out of the pond
before they bred!) and the three fat corys. With luck, biospiral will
live up to its claims, and the numbers will still look good tommorrow.

I had intended to use the growout tank with EI and intense lighting,
so I wouldn't have to do the same on the 30. Looks like I'll just
have to do EI on the 30 too, till I get enough plant matter
established to avoid the algal blooms.


http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/unkno...nt_2_small.jpg

Fontinalis. "a cool water plant" the books all say. Neat stuff.

That's not good... The growout tank wasn't heated, but a 10 gallon
indoors with a powerhead and some intense lighting kept it pretty
toasty. I suppose this means it isn't gonna care for the tropical
tank eh? A shame... it seemed quite attractive!

Wellllll, it manages ok at lower light. So an unheated tank with a small
fluorescent would keep it alive.

Again, the bit I've got in the hex is showing growth. It's not
spectacular like the hornwort, but to be fair, I've never met a moss
that grew rapidly. There's some in the 55 too, but I can't check its
progress since it's hidden behind more hornwort.

I suppose this means I need less hornwort. :-)

Good luck with both. I've love to hear they survived and look forward to
pictures of them growing madly.

Well I've been keeping tabs on both plants, I'll give it a few more
days and then we can compare to see how it responds in EI, Seachem,
and unaided conditions.
--
"Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick!
Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub
Abraham Evangelista

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
I'm still sorting through the wealth of information available on his
site. Subscribed when I picked up my ferts from Greg Watson. I
wonder, does this rule apply to plants that are "supposed" to be red?
I have some bronze and red Crypt. wendetti, and some "Red Hygro" that
turns a nice deep red where it gets light at the top of the tank.

Sorta. Given enough N I have some crypts that are just plain green. I
can tell when the N is low because they start to get more bonze color.

Some C. blassi I got were lovely and red. When I put them in a tank
that was well fertilized they went all green. Or more green anyway.

So, no, plants that aren't natrually just green will not go green in
the presense of sufficient N but they will tend more towards that.

The growth below was nice and red too, but now it's nice and back, as
in red algae, owing to a lack of light. The new shoots coming out
from the bottom of the stand are coming out bright green, so I wonder
if it's not a question of light.

Sure, leaves close to a stong light source will tend to be more red. Not
sure why this is, and even in the presense of apparanlty sifficient N.

Tom? You reading this?

Am I on the right track here?

Yabbut 5ppm N is kinda low. I aim for somwhere in the neighborhood of 15-30.

The algae is caused by excessive ammonia. Try getting all the crud out and doing
two big (80%) water changes then fertiize properlu.

I'm not sure it's economical to bother replacing the tank. Having a
piece of glass cut for the bottom is gonna cost me for the
glasscutter's labor, and for the glass. A replacement 10 gallon is
only $10 USD here, so it might end up cheaper for me to just buy
another tank, and save this one for sides/spares. Maybe I can use it
as a terrarium.

There's lots of places to get cheap/free glass. Thrift shops, junkyards,
craigslist.org.

Jobes fert sticks

Ack! Also known as "instant algae". I wouldn't use these.

Again, the bit I've got in the hex is showing growth.

Excellent.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:47:43 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
I'm still sorting through the wealth of information available on his
site. Subscribed when I picked up my ferts from Greg Watson. I
wonder, does this rule apply to plants that are "supposed" to be red?
I have some bronze and red Crypt. wendetti, and some "Red Hygro" that
turns a nice deep red where it gets light at the top of the tank.

Sorta. Given enough N I have some crypts that are just plain green. I
can tell when the N is low because they start to get more bonze color.

Some C. blassi I got were lovely and red. When I put them in a tank
that was well fertilized they went all green. Or more green anyway.

So, no, plants that aren't natrually just green will not go green in
the presense of sufficient N but they will tend more towards that.

The growth below was nice and red too, but now it's nice and back, as
in red algae, owing to a lack of light. The new shoots coming out
from the bottom of the stand are coming out bright green, so I wonder
if it's not a question of light.

Sure, leaves close to a stong light source will tend to be more red. Not
sure why this is, and even in the presense of apparanlty sifficient N.

Tom? You reading this?

Am I on the right track here?

Yabbut 5ppm N is kinda low. I aim for somwhere in the neighborhood of 15-30.

They seem to be all over the place. When I tested shortly after the
fertilization I only showed 5ppm. Tested again before bedtime last
night, and showed 20ppm. I tested when I woke up again and saw 10ppm,
and was back to 5ppm after dinner.

I'm starting to suspect my test kit, so tommorow I'm off to the shop
to pick up another brand.

The algae is caused by excessive ammonia. Try getting all the crud out and doing
two big (80%) water changes then fertiize properlu.

But I'm not showing any ammonia. And with the number of plants in the
tank, I shouldn't be showing any either.

I'm not sure it's economical to bother replacing the tank. Having a
piece of glass cut for the bottom is gonna cost me for the
glasscutter's labor, and for the glass. A replacement 10 gallon is
only $10 USD here, so it might end up cheaper for me to just buy
another tank, and save this one for sides/spares. Maybe I can use it
as a terrarium.

There's lots of places to get cheap/free glass. Thrift shops, junkyards,
craigslist.org.

Come to think of it, I probably have another busted 10 lying around
here somewhere if noone's walked off with it yet. Hadn't thought to
hit the junkyards. Maybe the local freecycle?

Jobes fert sticks

Ack! Also known as "instant algae". I wouldn't use these.

Again, the bit I've got in the hex is showing growth.

Excellent.

I seem to be having a lot of good luck with the hex. I've been dosing
with Seachem's ferts, the substrate is leftover flourite from the last
project, and since the cheapie hood had a standard light bulb socket I
dispensed with the ugly little round tube, and crammed in a 15 watt
CFL. I know it doesn't sound like much light, but when the distance
from the light to the bottom of the substrate is less than a foot, the
lighting is pretty intense.

The Potamogeton is only an inch from the suface at this point, and if
it keeps going like this, it should hit air before the week is out.
Oddly, in the presence of the more intense lighting, it seems to be
going more green on its leaves. Since the leaves are translucent, the
effect prompted one of our houseguests to ask why I'd put a plastic
plant in a tank of already healthy live growth.

The cabomba has healthy new growth, the hornwort already needs
another trimming, and the fontinalis is showing some pretty nice green
tips on the end of the fronds, so I'll assume it's still alive.

The val I threw in there isn't doing anything. It's not dying, but
it's not growing either, and unlike the specimins in the big tank,
it's showing no signs of throwing runners either. I also added a stem
of the red hygro, and a few bits of Rotala Rotundifolia from the
afternoon trimming.

I'd like to try a sword or a crypt in there, but none of the plants in
the big tank are showing any runners at the moment. (I used the last
set for foreground plantings.) For that matter, I'm not sure there
would be any space left for the poor betta if I stuck one in!
--
"Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick!
Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub
Abraham Evangelista

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
Yabbut 5ppm N is kinda low. I aim for somwhere in the neighborhood of 15-30.

They seem to be all over the place. When I tested shortly after the
fertilization I only showed 5ppm. Tested again before bedtime last
night, and showed 20ppm. I tested when I woke up again and saw 10ppm,
and was back to 5ppm after dinner.

I'm starting to suspect my test kit, so tommorow I'm off to the shop
to pick up another brand.

Hobby nitrate kits are worthless. Only the LaMotte/Hach kits are accurate.

But I'm not showing any ammonia. And with the number of plants in the
tank, I shouldn't be showing any either.

If there's a lot of waste it may be utilized by the algae before it
gets to register on the scale. To put it another way you don't typically
have these problems in clean tanks.

There's lots of places to get cheap/free glass. Thrift shops, junkyards,
craigslist.org.

Come to think of it, I probably have another busted 10 lying around
here somewhere if noone's walked off with it yet. Hadn't thought to
hit the junkyards. Maybe the local freecycle?

Sure. Cheap/free glass is easy to find if you look around.

The Potamogeton is only an inch from the suface at this point, and if
it keeps going like this, it should hit air before the week is out.
Oddly, in the presence of the more intense lighting, it seems to be
going more green on its leaves. Since the leaves are translucent, the
effect prompted one of our houseguests to ask why I'd put a plastic
plant in a tank of already healthy live growth.

Cool. It would be enat to see just this in a tank.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:18:45 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:

snip

The Potamogeton is only an inch from the suface at this point, and if
it keeps going like this, it should hit air before the week is out.
Oddly, in the presence of the more intense lighting, it seems to be
going more green on its leaves. Since the leaves are translucent, the
effect prompted one of our houseguests to ask why I'd put a plastic
plant in a tank of already healthy live growth.

Cool. It would be enat to see just this in a tank.

Ask and ye shall recieve!

Fontinalis
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/hex_01_small.jpg
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/30_02_small.jpg

Potamogeton
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/hex_02_small.jpg
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/30_01_small.jpg

--
"Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick!
Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub
Abraham Evangelista

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
Potamogeton
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/hex_02_small.jpg
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/30_01_small.jpg


Cool stuff aint it? Ya know Ludwigia grows around here and seems to do
ok indoors but always dies in the winter. I sorta wonder if it's programmed
to die in the winter or something. It'll be interesting see what happens
with yout stuff in the upcoming months.



--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 02:51:26 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
Potamogeton
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/hex_02_small.jpg
http://www.sonnani.com/aquaria/30_01_small.jpg


Cool stuff aint it?

Very much so. Visually it's nothing at all like the other stem plants
in the tank. (Parrot Feather, Mermaid Weed, Green Cabomba, Money
Wort, Ludwigia, Bladderwort, Rotala, Baby's Tears)

Kinda looks like someone took Aponogeton leaves and glued them to a
stem. :-)

Ya know Ludwigia grows around here

Where's "here" for you?

and seems to do ok indoors but always dies in the winter.

Funny you should mention that. I've got what was sold to me as "Red
Hygro", which upon visual inspection seems to much more closely
resemble Ludwigia Repens.

I pulled a foot long stem of what I think is also Ludwigia Repens from
Ridley Creek the other day. the leaf structure closely resembles what
I think is Ludwigia in my tank, but it lacks the deep red coloration
that my grown stuff does. Seeing as how I pulled it from a reasonably
well lit area, I'm surprised at its green coloration. This bit should
have been getting plenty of sunlight.

New growth at the bottom of my store bought ludwigia is also light
green, but isn't as pointed as that from the specimin I brought back
home. I've planted these a little too closely, so the bottom bits
aren't getting quite as much light as the tops.

I'll try to remember to get some comparison pics tommorrow when the
lights come back on.

I sorta wonder if it's programmed to die in the winter or something.

Do you know if it goes to seed at some point? I had some in my pond,
which eventually managed to grow emersed, but it never went to flower
or seed. I've left it in there, so if the new koi don't tear it
apart, we'll see if it makes it through the winter. If it doesn't
freeze solid perhaps it will survive. The pond is just a preform
liner, and I've got it above ground. I've got a rock wall around it
now, but I'm planning on removing the rocks, backfilling around it
with dirt, then rebuilding the wall before winter gets here. Hopefully
this will be enough to keep it from freezing through.

It'll be interesting see what happens
with yout stuff in the upcoming months.

I'm curious too. Might go for a drive tommorrow and see what else I
can turn up, if it isn't too terribly chilly. There's a couple of
manmade lakes within an hour's drive of here that might yield
something interesting, but the water temperatues are dropping, so I'll
need to act fast before these plants hit their dormancy phase or die
back.
--
"Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick!
Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub
Abraham Evangelista

In article ,
Abraham Evangelista wrote:
Kinda looks like someone took Aponogeton leaves and glued them to a
stem. :-)

Yeah a bit. Looks a bit like Bolbitis, too.

Ya know Ludwigia grows around here

Where's "here" for you?

Near kingston Ontario, about5 30 miles north of the US border
in Ontario.

I pulled a foot long stem of what I think is also Ludwigia Repens from
Ridley Creek the other day. the leaf structure closely resembles what
I think is Ludwigia in my tank, but it lacks the deep red coloration
that my grown stuff does. Seeing as how I pulled it from a reasonably
well lit area, I'm surprised at its green coloration. This bit should
have been getting plenty of sunlight.

New growth at the bottom of my store bought ludwigia is also light
green, but isn't as pointed as that from the specimin I brought back
home. I've planted these a little too closely, so the bottom bits
aren't getting quite as much light as the tops.

STRONG light and low nitrates should make them red.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net