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Report: Seachem Excel as algaecide



 
 
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  #16  
Old 14-03-2005, 05:23 PM
Rocco Moretti
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Victor Martinez wrote:
Ozdude wrote:

I really don't think it's an algaecide per se, but rather, it's
bringing the tank into a balance where the plants can out compete the
algae.


I recommend you guys google for the thread discussing this last time. It
has a very good explanation on why seachem excel *is* an algaecide.


Which thread is this? Googling on "seachem excel algaecide" gave me two
threads - this one and one titled "Which fert should I reduce to cut
algae growth?" from January.

In it I saw a lot of back-and forth, but nothing I would class as a
"very good" explanation of the algaecidal properties - the best I saw
was "nudge-nudge-wink-wink" type quotes allegedly from the Seachem CEO
that danced around the issue.

That's not to say that I doubt that Excel can kill algae, or at least
make its life miserable - it's just I can't find any sort of
*explanation* of why it kills algae, just anecdotal claims that it does.
I'm curious for the reason behind it - what's in it that might cause the
effect people see?
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  #17  
Old 14-03-2005, 05:44 PM
Richard Sexton
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I've got some Excel but haven't got around to trying it. What if you're
already injecting with CO2. Does it have any impact on shrimp etc? Will
my algae eating fish suddenly go hungry?


It says right on the label it canbe used with CO2. I've never heard
it harms shrimp; I'm not certain, but if it did I think we'd have heard
by now tht it injured shrimp/snails/invertebrates.

Algae eating shrimp eat many more thnigs tan just algae, in
fact I'd say their last choice is algae. They eat decomposing
plant material and the microorganisms that live in/on the
algae which will still be present on live plants. Plus they'll
eat fishfood as their first choice.

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  #18  
Old 14-03-2005, 07:54 PM
Richard Sexton
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That's not to say that I doubt that Excel can kill algae, or at least
make its life miserable - it's just I can't find any sort of
*explanation* of why it kills algae, just anecdotal claims that it does.
I'm curious for the reason behind it - what's in it that might cause the
effect people see?



The active ingredient in Flourish Excel is polycycloglutaracetal.
My vauge understanding of this is the acetyl part is the bit
that hurts alage.

I urge you to write Dr. Greg Moran, CEO of Sea-Chem who
makes this stuff. He's very open about this stuff.

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  #19  
Old 15-03-2005, 06:35 AM
quiser
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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:36:56 +0000, Richard Sexton wrote:

I really don't think it's an algaecide per se, but rather, it's bringing the
tank into a balance where the plants can out compete the algae.


No, it kills algae. Try it for yourself. Take a tank in good
shape. Add moss balls (Cladophora algae). Now add flourish excel.
The moss balls will die.

Dr. Greg Moran, CEO of Sea Chem will tell you it's not an algicide
and will explian why silly US laws make it so. But he will also
tell you not to use it on Cladophora as it will not do it any good.

There's no warning on the label about this becasue they figured
who'd want to grow algae?



Where did you get infomation from? Back up your statments.



  #20  
Old 15-03-2005, 06:57 AM
Richard Sexton
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In article ,
quiser wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:36:56 +0000, Richard Sexton wrote:

I really don't think it's an algaecide per se, but rather, it's bringing the
tank into a balance where the plants can out compete the algae.


No, it kills algae. Try it for yourself. Take a tank in good
shape. Add moss balls (Cladophora algae). Now add flourish excel.
The moss balls will die.

Dr. Greg Moran, CEO of Sea Chem will tell you it's not an algicide
and will explian why silly US laws make it so. But he will also
tell you not to use it on Cladophora as it will not do it any good.

There's no warning on the label about this becasue they figured
who'd want to grow algae?



Where did you get infomation from? Back up your statments.


I asked Dr. Moran and this is exactly what he told me. You
can ask him yourself and see.


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  #21  
Old 15-03-2005, 02:45 PM
Justin
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Hi everyone...

Kinda new to the whole planted aquarium thing... But I have a grasp of
basic principles and I would agree with Elaine... I have recently had my
pressurized CO2 die and have had to use the yeast method which, as i'm sure
you all know, produces a lot less co2. I am also using Flourish (non-iron
formula) and flourish Iron. I found that I have had to reduce my flourish
non-iron (which indeed has iron) and stop my flourish Iron formula all
together due to hair aglae growing because of excess iron not being utilized
by plants due to reduced co2 (carbon). On adding flourish excell ("organic
carbon") in conjuction with yeast co2 I can resume dosing at normal flourish
rates for my tank, but cannot use flourish iron, not even 1ml for a 200
litre (50 gallon) tank or I get hair algae...

I would say it is safe to keep your shrimp, snails etc in your tank as it is
not a copper formula i.e. you do not need a high KH to dose it.

I believe it is not really an algaecide, it merely brings your carbon levels
up, which in turn increases photosynthesis and uses iron. I have used
excell for a while now... (Dupla rep in australia has not returned one of my
three phone calls re the part I need) and I still have a few stones here and
there that have algae due to excess phosphates and excell has not removed
it... If it was an algaecide it would also reduce this algae and not just
the hair algae which grows due to an excess in a nutrient.

But these are just my thoughts and what I understand.


"Elaine T" wrote in message
om...
Victor Martinez wrote:
Watercress wrote:

And the rooster causes the sun to rise. You are jumping to conclusion.



Really? Then by all means explain to me what exactly caused the hair
algae to die off. I didn't change anything else in my routine.

An alternate explanation is that your plants, given a good carbon source,
outcompeted the hair algae. Either way, the outcome is great! I really
like Excel in my very low algae tanks too.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__



  #22  
Old 15-03-2005, 08:11 PM
Watercress
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Wow, name dropping. I am convinced now. (^_^;

  #23  
Old 15-03-2005, 08:46 PM
Richard Sexton
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In article . com,
Watercress wrote:
Wow, name dropping. I am convinced now. (^_^;


I don't know what your damage is, but it goes like this:
rumors abounded of Excel as an algaecide, and seeing Greg
Moran posts to the APd I wrote him a letter to ask him
about it. He replied and I told you what he said here.

I would have cited the reference as "pers. comms." but I was pretty sure
you wouldn't understand what that means.

--
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  #24  
Old 15-03-2005, 09:25 PM
Kay
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Victor Martinez wrote:
It seems the poster who reported that Seachem Excel works as an
algaecide on top of being a source of organic carbon was right!
I had a lot of hair algae in my 110g heavily planted tank. So much that
the outflow of my eheim filter had to be scrubbed and cleaned at least
once every two weeks. Algae grew very fast and was very happy.
I started dosing Excel daily for a week or so, then forgot about it.
Four weeks later (or so), almost all the algae is gone. I'll be sure to
order another large bottle of Excel to continue dosing as a preventative.
It works!


Victor it did the same for me! And its been years now. No algae.

Kay
  #25  
Old 24-03-2005, 12:18 AM
Robert
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"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
It seems the poster who reported that Seachem Excel works as an
algaecide on top of being a source of organic carbon was right!
I had a lot of hair algae in my 110g heavily planted tank. So much that
the outflow of my eheim filter had to be scrubbed and cleaned at least
once every two weeks. Algae grew very fast and was very happy.
I started dosing Excel daily for a week or so, then forgot about it.
Four weeks later (or so), almost all the algae is gone. I'll be sure to
order another large bottle of Excel to continue dosing as a preventative.
It works!


I agree with Victor. Look for the forum threads at Aquatic Plant Central.
There are numerous others who've had similar experiences in wiping out
algae. In my case, it was BBA--gone in a week. The thread started when one
guy reported overdosing by accident and saw his algae croak. Others
followed suit in varying doses and reported similar results. There is also
discussion of the active ingredient in Excel, etc. You'll find some useful
INFORMATION in the threads, rather than baseless, opinionated nonsense as
some are spouting in this thread.



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  #26  
Old 29-03-2005, 11:37 PM
[email protected]
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Victor Martinez wrote:
Ozdude wrote:
I really don't think it's an algaecide per se, but rather, it's

bringing the
tank into a balance where the plants can out compete the algae.


I recommend you guys google for the thread discussing this last time.

It
has a very good explanation on why seachem excel *is* an algaecide.


I'd call it an algae inhibitor.
I tried it on Cladophora, it had no effect with a controlled tank full
of plants.
None, nada, zip.

The tank has good CO2, nutrient levels etc.
Cladophra was added and was allowed to grow well first prior.
Then it was added, 8 weeks later, ther BBA and Cladophora are still
there.

The Cladophora grows, slowly, the BBA not at all.
But neither dies.............

If we added Copper, they would certainly die.
In some tanks, like many snake oils, Excel will work, but unlike a
snake oil, Excel adds something that the plant needs: Carbon.

If you approach the issue from the plant's need, then these cases are
much easier to tease apart and show why some folks do not have issues
and others do.

If you have algae, you are likely, or have neglected the tank in some
way.
So you are starting with a problem already and the tank needs some
help.

I have gotten rid of every species of algae without using Excel or any
snake oil, pruning etc will go a long way.

But I will say try using Excel, it may help you, and if so, take a long
look at the CO2.

Take care of algae problems before they get so bad next time also, that
way they are much much easier to address.


Regards,
Tom Barr

Get connected
www.BarrReport.com Get the information




Regards,
Tom Barr

  #27  
Old 30-03-2005, 01:01 AM
Ozdude
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wrote in message
ups.com...
If you approach the issue from the plant's need, then these cases are
much easier to tease apart and show why some folks do not have issues
and others do.


I have read sites where they state that green algae is quite normal, just
not lots of it, so I agree with you on this.

If you have algae, you are likely, or have neglected the tank in some
way.


I did have recent infection situation which killed off some of the fish, but
it's corrected now.

So you are starting with a problem already and the tank needs some
help.

I have gotten rid of every species of algae without using Excel or any
snake oil, pruning etc will go a long way.

But I will say try using Excel, it may help you, and if so, take a long
look at the CO2.


I've switched to a canister filter which has made a difference. The algae I
get now is directly proportional to the amount of liquid fertilizer placed
in the tank. I've cut back to one dose per week of the Flourish and it's all
fine now. I don't know what the specific compound is that was giving the
excess to cause the green algae (probably nitrogen or potassium), but I now
have unprecedented plant growth, tiny amounts of algae, and in fact, is
growing so well I am actually throwing cuttings away like I had to do last
night. I have no place or person to give the cuttings to, so I have to
compost them until the arrival of tank #3 in two weeks.

My plants grow robust healthy green leaves, free of any diatom or green
algae and at such a rate that the pruning is becomng a bi-weekly event. I am
getting about 1 cm a day on some plants in the tank and all the ones damaged
in the tank accident a few months ago have just recovered so beautifully, I
am almost gob smacked at the rates of growth - I think what we are
discussing here, is actually the matter of striking the balances needed for
a healthy tank.

Take care of algae problems before they get so bad next time also, that
way they are much much easier to address.


Doing it now


Oz

--
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  #28  
Old 30-03-2005, 05:31 AM
Richard Sexton
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I'd call it an algae inhibitor.
I tried it on Cladophora, it had no effect with a controlled tank full
of plants.
None, nada, zip.


I've been using Excel for 2 weeks along with daily dosing of fertilizer. I started
the two at the same time and in one tant - my last remaining problem tank -
it decimated the thread and staghorn algae in 3 days. In 7 days there was barely
a trace of the body. In two weeks it's simply all gone.

It seems to have no effect on BGA and green water (but they're easily cured
without Excel, just water changes and fertilizer)

--
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  #29  
Old 30-03-2005, 03:25 PM
Angrie.Woman
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"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
I'd call it an algae inhibitor.
I tried it on Cladophora, it had no effect with a controlled tank full
of plants.
None, nada, zip.


I've been using Excel for 2 weeks along with daily dosing of fertilizer. I
started
the two at the same time and in one tant - my last remaining problem
tank -
it decimated the thread and staghorn algae in 3 days. In 7 days there was
barely
a trace of the body. In two weeks it's simply all gone.

It seems to have no effect on BGA and green water (but they're easily
cured
without Excel, just water changes and fertilizer)


Is Excel safe for invertebrates, snails to be specific?

A


  #30  
Old 30-03-2005, 06:16 PM
Elaine T
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Angrie.Woman wrote:
"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...

I'd call it an algae inhibitor.
I tried it on Cladophora, it had no effect with a controlled tank full
of plants.
None, nada, zip.


I've been using Excel for 2 weeks along with daily dosing of fertilizer. I
started
the two at the same time and in one tant - my last remaining problem
tank -
it decimated the thread and staghorn algae in 3 days. In 7 days there was
barely
a trace of the body. In two weeks it's simply all gone.

It seems to have no effect on BGA and green water (but they're easily
cured
without Excel, just water changes and fertilizer)



Is Excel safe for invertebrates, snails to be specific?

A


The #*$%&#@ snails in my Excel-treated tanks seem just fine as are my
Amano shrimp.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

 




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