In case you are planning to do mulching this spring!



http://www.aspca.org/site/News2?page...s_iv_ctrl=1400





ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center Issues Cocoa Bean Fertilizer Warning

Friday, March 14, 2003

Organic mulch fertilizer may pose hazard to dogs

Contacts: Deborah Sindell

(212)-876-7700 ext. 4658



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(URBANA, IL) March 13, 2003 -- As spring approaches, people will start to

tend their lawns and gardens. Many will consider using cocoa bean mulch as

a fertilizer. Made from spent cocoa beans used in chocolate production,

cocoa bean mulch is organic, deters slugs and snails, and gives a garden an

appealing chocolate smell. However, it also attracts dogs, who can easily

be poisoned by eating the mulch.

Cocoa beans contain the stimulants caffeine and theobromine. Dogs are

highly sensitive to these chemicals, called methylxanthines. In dogs, low

doses of methylxanthine can cause mild gastrointestinal upset (vomiting,

diarrhea, and/or abdominal pain); higher doses can cause rapid heart rate,

muscle tremors, seizures, and death.

Eaten by a 50-pound dog, about 2 ounces of cocoa bean mulch may cause

gastrointestinal upset; about 4.5 ounces, increased heart rate; about 5.3

ounces, seizures; and over 9 ounces, death. (In contrast, a 50-pound dog

can eat up to about 7.5 ounces of milk chocolate without gastrointestinal

upset and up to about a pound of milk chocolate without increased heart rate.)

If you suspect that your dog has eaten cocoa bean mulch, immediately

contact your veterinarian or the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center

(1-888-426-4435). Treatment will depend on how much cocoa bean mulch your

dog has eaten, when the mulch was eaten, and whether your dog is sick.

Recommended care may include placing your dog under veterinary observation,

inducing vomiting, and/or controlling a rapid heart beat or seizures.

On 03 Apr 2003 20:41:59 GMT, c (TOM KAN PA) wrote:

In case you are planning to do mulching this spring!



http://www.aspca.org/site/News2?page...s_iv_ctrl=1400





ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center Issues Cocoa Bean Fertilizer Warning

Friday, March 14, 2003

Organic mulch fertilizer may pose hazard to dogs

Contacts: Deborah Sindell

(212)-876-7700 ext. 4658



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(URBANA, IL) March 13, 2003 -- As spring approaches, people will start to

tend their lawns and gardens. Many will consider using cocoa bean mulch as

a fertilizer. Made from spent cocoa beans used in chocolate production,

cocoa bean mulch is organic, deters slugs and snails, and gives a garden an

appealing chocolate smell. However, it also attracts dogs, who can easily

be poisoned by eating the mulch.

[...]

ONe of the reasons I used it was its attractiveness, and the
allegation that it repelled cats. I do not have dogs.

However, I've been "talked out of it" by some Hon. Members
on this NG, and now use the less expensive, and (I think) equally
effective redwood mulch.

Comments on the latter welcome.


--
Polar

Thanks for posting this. Not in any way saying that some dogs wouldn't be
attracted to the cocoa mulch but just to comment on our experience. We have
several dogs that spend all day at the nursery and they haven't been
attracted to it - maybe because there's enough action going on that they
aren't bored enough to explore the mulch.

Burl

"TOM KAN PA" wrote in message
...
In case you are planning to do mulching this spring!




http://www.aspca.org/site/News2?page...s_iv_ctrl=1400





ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center Issues Cocoa Bean Fertilizer Warning

Friday, March 14, 2003

Organic mulch fertilizer may pose hazard to dogs

Contacts: Deborah Sindell

(212)-876-7700 ext. 4658



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(URBANA, IL) March 13, 2003 -- As spring approaches, people will start to

tend their lawns and gardens. Many will consider using cocoa bean mulch as

a fertilizer. Made from spent cocoa beans used in chocolate production,

cocoa bean mulch is organic, deters slugs and snails, and gives a garden
an

appealing chocolate smell. However, it also attracts dogs, who can easily

be poisoned by eating the mulch.

Cocoa beans contain the stimulants caffeine and theobromine. Dogs are

highly sensitive to these chemicals, called methylxanthines. In dogs, low

doses of methylxanthine can cause mild gastrointestinal upset (vomiting,

diarrhea, and/or abdominal pain); higher doses can cause rapid heart rate,

muscle tremors, seizures, and death.

Eaten by a 50-pound dog, about 2 ounces of cocoa bean mulch may cause

gastrointestinal upset; about 4.5 ounces, increased heart rate; about 5.3

ounces, seizures; and over 9 ounces, death. (In contrast, a 50-pound dog

can eat up to about 7.5 ounces of milk chocolate without gastrointestinal

upset and up to about a pound of milk chocolate without increased heart
rate.)

If you suspect that your dog has eaten cocoa bean mulch, immediately

contact your veterinarian or the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center

(1-888-426-4435). Treatment will depend on how much cocoa bean mulch your

dog has eaten, when the mulch was eaten, and whether your dog is sick.

Recommended care may include placing your dog under veterinary
observation,

inducing vomiting, and/or controlling a rapid heart beat or seizures.

Polar wrote:
As spring approaches, people will start to

tend their lawns and gardens. Many will consider using cocoa bean mulch as

a fertilizer. Made from spent cocoa beans used in chocolate production,

cocoa bean mulch is organic, deters slugs and snails, and gives a garden an

appealing chocolate smell. However, it also attracts dogs, who can easily

be poisoned by eating the mulch.

This is impossible!!!!! How is it possible for any organic product to
be poisonous????? This is sheer propaganda, false bullshit and other
lies put out by the chemical fertilizer industry.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ORGANIC PRODUCTS TO BE BAD!!!!!

CHOCOLATE IS ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS FOR DOGS! Please read information
lower in this posting or go to
http://www.hersheys.com/nutrition_co...obromine.shtml
and read it first hand. . .

On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 22:00:17 -0500, Increase Mather
wrote:



Polar wrote:
As spring approaches, people will start to

tend their lawns and gardens. Many will consider using cocoa bean mulch as

a fertilizer. Made from spent cocoa beans used in chocolate production,

cocoa bean mulch is organic, deters slugs and snails, and gives a garden an

appealing chocolate smell. However, it also attracts dogs, who can easily

be poisoned by eating the mulch.

This is impossible!!!!! How is it possible for any organic product to
be poisonous????? This is sheer propaganda, false bullshit and other
lies put out by the chemical fertilizer industry.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ORGANIC PRODUCTS TO BE BAD!!!!!

CHOCOLATE IS ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS FOR DOGS
The following in!formation is from Hershey Foods Corp website and may
be found at
http://www.hersheys.com/nutrition_co...obromine.shtml

Theobromine is a methylxanthine, in the same class of compounds as
caffeine and theophylline. Theobromine and the other methylxanthines
occur naturally in many plants found throughout the world. Examples
include cocoa, tea and coffee plants. Theobromine is the predominant
methylxanthine found in cocoa beans
In domestic animals, especially dogs, chocolate may harm the heart,
kidneys and central nervous system. This is because dogs metabolize
theobromine, a naturally occurring substance in chocolate, very
slowly. The effect of theobromine on dogs and some other pets is
serious. It carries the same risk as does a dog's consumption of other
common household items such as coffee, tea, cola beverages and certain
houseplants

This is impossible!!!!! How is it possible for any organic product to
be poisonous????? This is sheer propaganda, false bullshit and other
lies put out by the chemical fertilizer industry.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ORGANIC PRODUCTS TO BE BAD!!!!!

Ahhhhhhh. I suggest you rethink this. Poisons are just as organic as anything
else you can think of... Long before the chemical industry, organic products
were known to be poisonous. Think about this. Here is a listing of PLANTS
that are poisonous, can't get any more organic than that.
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/alphalist.html Just because it's an
"organic product" doesn't mean it isn't poisonous if taken internally (which is
what a dog would do if they ate the mulch).

Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

Increase Mather expounded:

This is impossible!!!!! How is it possible for any organic product to
be poisonous????? This is sheer propaganda, false bullshit and other
lies put out by the chemical fertilizer industry.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ORGANIC PRODUCTS TO BE BAD!!!!!

That's ridiculous, there are plenty of natural, organic products that
are poisonous. Chocolate is poisonous to dogs.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

Increase Mather wrote:

Polar wrote:
As spring approaches, people will start to

tend their lawns and gardens. Many will consider using cocoa bean mulch as

a fertilizer. Made from spent cocoa beans used in chocolate production,

cocoa bean mulch is organic, deters slugs and snails, and gives a garden an

appealing chocolate smell. However, it also attracts dogs, who can easily

be poisoned by eating the mulch.

This is impossible!!!!! How is it possible for any organic product to
be poisonous????? This is sheer propaganda, false bullshit and other
lies put out by the chemical fertilizer industry.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ORGANIC PRODUCTS TO BE BAD!!!!!

Excuse me? Are you being serious? Of course "organic" products can be toxic! A
major percentage of plants (last I checked, they are typically considered to be
an "organic" substance) grown in most gardens are toxic to some degree or
another, including a good many vegetables in their raw state or their foliage.
Also a good number of organic (i.e, plant-derived) pesticides are extremely
toxic. As to the cocoa bean mulch, it is a well known fact that chocolate
(derived from cocoa beans) is poisonous to dogs in particular. Organic has
absolutely no bearing on toxicity.

Geesh, the lack of common sense often demonstrated by posters to this group never
fails to amaze me - hope you are smart enough to know to come in out of the rain.

"Increase Mather" wrote in message
...


This is impossible!!!!! How is it possible for any organic product to
be poisonous????? This is sheer propaganda, false bullshit and other
lies put out by the chemical fertilizer industry.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ORGANIC PRODUCTS TO BE BAD!!!!!


Talk to Socrates about drinking hemlock, which is perfectly natural. Dive
into a poison oak or poison ivy bush. Extract nicotine from tobacco, place a
drop of it on your hand. Eat a deathcap mushroom.

Mother nature has created plenty of organic substances that are poisonous.

Sameer

my mother been using the cocoa bean husk mulch for years. we got 7 dogs. none of
them were attracted to the mulch. after a while I find the smell obnoxious, not
terribly effective in holding down weeds, gets blown around until it gets wet and
fungusy.
I would keep my stupid "everything-belongs-in-my-mouth" puppy away from it of course.
But the "chocolate is deadly" is a dosage thing. They gotta eat lots of real
chocolate (relative to their size) to get toxed. I find this kind of warning to
edge on hysteria. The whole list of plants that are toxic is not scientific. They
have now included grapes on the list of foods toxic for dogs based on somebody
saying their dog ate a bunch, suddenly got sick and died.
Ingrid

"Burl" wrote:
Thanks for posting this. Not in any way saying that some dogs wouldn't be
attracted to the cocoa mulch but just to comment on our experience. We have
several dogs that spend all day at the nursery and they haven't been
attracted to it - maybe because there's enough action going on that they
aren't bored enough to explore the mulch.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I wonder if Increase Mather would have the same opinion after
swallowing a couple of organic castor bean seeds?


On 03 Apr 2003 20:41:59 GMT, c (TOM KAN PA) wrote:

In case you are planning to do mulching this spring!



http://www.aspca.org/site/News2?page...s_iv_ctrl=1400





ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center Issues Cocoa Bean Fertilizer Warning

Friday, March 14, 2003

Organic mulch fertilizer may pose hazard to dogs

Contacts: Deborah Sindell

(212)-876-7700 ext. 4658



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(URBANA, IL) March 13, 2003 -- As spring approaches, people will start to

tend their lawns and gardens. Many will consider using cocoa bean mulch as

a fertilizer. Made from spent cocoa beans used in chocolate production,

cocoa bean mulch is organic, deters slugs and snails, and gives a garden an

appealing chocolate smell. However, it also attracts dogs, who can easily

be poisoned by eating the mulch.

Cocoa beans contain the stimulants caffeine and theobromine. Dogs are

highly sensitive to these chemicals, called methylxanthines. In dogs, low

doses of methylxanthine can cause mild gastrointestinal upset (vomiting,

diarrhea, and/or abdominal pain); higher doses can cause rapid heart rate,

muscle tremors, seizures, and death.

Eaten by a 50-pound dog, about 2 ounces of cocoa bean mulch may cause

gastrointestinal upset; about 4.5 ounces, increased heart rate; about 5.3

ounces, seizures; and over 9 ounces, death. (In contrast, a 50-pound dog

can eat up to about 7.5 ounces of milk chocolate without gastrointestinal

upset and up to about a pound of milk chocolate without increased heart rate.)

If you suspect that your dog has eaten cocoa bean mulch, immediately

contact your veterinarian or the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center

(1-888-426-4435). Treatment will depend on how much cocoa bean mulch your

dog has eaten, when the mulch was eaten, and whether your dog is sick.

Recommended care may include placing your dog under veterinary observation,

inducing vomiting, and/or controlling a rapid heart beat or seizures.

In article ,
wrote:

my mother been using the cocoa bean husk mulch for years. we got 7
dogs. none of
them were attracted to the mulch. after a while I find the smell
obnoxious, not
terribly effective in holding down weeds, gets blown around until it
gets wet and
fungusy.
I would keep my stupid "everything-belongs-in-my-mouth" puppy away from
it of course.
But the "chocolate is deadly" is a dosage thing. They gotta eat lots of real
chocolate (relative to their size) to get toxed. I find this kind of
warning to
edge on hysteria. The whole list of plants that are toxic is not
scientific. They
have now included grapes on the list of foods toxic for dogs based on
somebody
saying their dog ate a bunch, suddenly got sick and died.
Ingrid

Very sensible. Inducing that "edge of hysteria" was in fact the entire
goal of the Animal Rights & PETA activists who were first to spread this
information -- not to assist animals but specifically to target Foremans &
Home Depot for political power over corporations, & while they were
exaggerating the degree of threat to dogs, they decided to toss in the
much more fatuous claim that it would also kill cats. All the original
flyers & articles on this mentioned Foremans & Home Depot explicitely
because the animal rights press releases focused on them. The press
releases focused on new organizations, dog clubs, & garden societies --
NOT poison control experts, who were intentionally forced to respond to
clubsters of sundry kinds, just as was Home Depot. It was a very
successful propoganda compaign, assisted by the germ of truth under the
exaggerations.

Note that when the propoganda reached the ASPCA Animal Poison Control
Center, they released a document that said cocoa mulch MIGHT harm dogs, &
based on known amounts of theobromine in cocoa mulch, speculated that 5
ounces of cocoa mulch would be sufficient to kill a fifty pound dog, but
alas they're repeating lies concocted by John Frazier, long-time PETA
activist & advocate of "secular morality of animal rights". Elsewhere,
without an agenda, University of Illinois professors Wiesbrook &
Gwaltney-Brant said it would take 12 ounces to kill that dog, & even that
is an estimate that sought to err on the side of caution. A lethal dose of
theobromine from milk chocolate would require a dog in the 50 to 65 pound
range to eat FOUR POUNDS to reach a toxic level. This is why no child ever
killed its dog sharing one little piece of chocolate, unwise though that
sharing may be. Cocoa mulch has four times the theobromine, therefore it
is easy to speculate that one pound of mulch would be just as toxic to the
dog -- if only you can convince the dog to eat a pound of shells with so
great an ease.

If a large dog could manage to stomach between twelve ounces & a pound of
cocoa mulch, it probably would die. That much is true. Pile up that much
of the stuff & then try to imagine any dog finishing it off! What are the
serious odds of a dog eating three-quarters of a pound to a pound of such
lightweight stuff at a go? We're talking about a threat to dogs that are
already psychologically damaged, not your mum's dogs if they're
well-adjusted to start with.

In all, it's a caution, not the extravagant danger animal rights radicals
trumpeted & have considered so many garden club & dog club volunteers to
repeat verbatim right down to the animal rights peoples' indictment of
Foremans & Home Depot. Whadda success!

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

In article ,
unya (Purchgdss) wrote:

This is impossible!!!!! How is it possible for any organic product to
be poisonous????? This is sheer propaganda, false bullshit and other
lies put out by the chemical fertilizer industry.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ORGANIC PRODUCTS TO BE BAD!!!!!

Ahhhhhhh. I suggest you rethink this. Poisons are just as organic as
anything
else you can think of... Long before the chemical industry, organic products
were known to be poisonous. Think about this. Here is a listing of PLANTS
that are poisonous, can't get any more organic than that.
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/alphalist.html Just because it's an
"organic product" doesn't mean it isn't poisonous if taken internally
(which is
what a dog would do if they ate the mulch).

Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

I'm pretty sure Mather was being Swiftian, not serious, but maybe I was
just getting a joke that wasn't told.

However, all risks being relative, cocoa mulch wouldn't be one of my high
worries, except it gets moldy & isn't nearly as pleasant in month three as
it was in week one.

But for threat to dogs, first of all, mainly only neurotic dogs would eat
such stuff, & will probably kill themselves sooner getting blockages &
internal injuries from also eating nails & children's toys. Such dog
neuroses are usually caused by an owner's abuse & neglect, whether
emotional of physical, so protecting the dog from cocoa mulch is a bit far
down the list of who or what it needs protection from.

Furthermore, cedar chippings are MUCH more threatening to MANY MORE dogs.
These lodge splinters in dogs' pads that easily become infected. If the
statistic is true that less than 2% of dogs even sample cocoa mulch, &
only half that 2% become even moderately ill, compare that to the greater
possibility of harm to ALL dogs that walk on or especially dig in cedar or
redwood chips.

So switching from cocoa mulch to cedar because an abused neurotic dog
MIGHT eat cocoa mulch just causes foot & pad injuries to the greater
percentage of healthy normal dogs. Not all woodchips splinter the way
cedar & redwood does, so just about any other type of woodchip would be
safer, but because cedar & redwood lasts longest, mostly only the
potentially harmful stuff is used.

But you know what I like best as a topcoating? Cheep fully composted steer
manure. Well composted steer manure looks like rich black loam, but is a
sterile surface coating that retards weed seeds from germinating while
simultaneously enriching the lower soil as the topcoating is rained
through. It has to be applied once a year preferably in autumn possibly in
spring. Leafmold is just as nice if you can make it yourself from
gathered leaves, but hard to have a lot of that at once. All sterile
composts are quite good for this purpose, but steer manure tends to be
extremely cheap. The chap who runs Heronswood recommended steer manure &
deplores woodchips. I now use finer composts & home-made composts when
working a soil deeply, but for a topcoating, cheapo steer manure has
worked GREAT and cut down my weeding chores way more than I'd expected
from it.

And as for the alkaloids in chocolate that are so deadly to dogs, the
primary source is always going to be children with candybars who don't
know how harmful it is to share with the dog. Most chocolate bars are milk
chocolate & do not contain enough of the alkaloid theomobrine to make a
dog sick, unless an awfully little dog, or unless they eat three or four
pounds of chocolate at a go. It wouldn't take a lot of unsweetened dark
baking chocolate to kill a dog outright, but how many kids are carrying
around a can of unsweetened baker's cocoa. Since children frequently just
feed dogs a piece or two of milk chocolate, they never see the harm that
can be done, as it's unwise but not a killer at such low doses.

The reason actually USEFUL & specific information is not generally cited
is because the "cocoa mulch scare" was started by the radical fringe of
the Animal Rights community under the guidance of John Frazier,
antivivesectionist. Now I'm an antivivisectionist myself, but many in the
animal rights community take it way too far & have rendered the whole idea
of "Animal Rights" absurd. The people who want you to pressure Home Depot
& Foremans for selling cocoa mulch are the same people who are fighting
against your right to have a pet at all. I do not exaggerate; Peta's long
term goal is to stop people from keeping pets, OR livestock. I share some
of the same moral principles in that I personally would never eat an
animal, nor experiment on an animal, but I do not want to impose my
morality on others by law the way Peta would like to do, & I certainly
would not include all domestic uses of animals as unacceptable. What such
organizations like to do with their "public face" is issue warnings like
this one against cocoa mulch, but their wording of the "warnings"
targetted Home Depot & Foremans for strictly political, not educative
purposes. They wanted to induce an edge of hysteria in the public that
would put pressure against businesses to assist groups like Peta in
furthering an agenda that is a lot more about crazy impositions against
human rights than it is about the safety or preservation of animals. Peta
is on record that it would be better tha all animals were extinct than be
exploited -- whether exploited as pets or as food.

The germ of truth to the warning is hampered by it actually being a
fear-tactic used as a weapon against Home Depot & Foreman's. The original
propoganda warning said there were "several deaths" per week & claimed
also that cats would be poisoned -- neither statement had any basis. Yet
they were so successful they scared the bejabbers out of gardeners & dog
owners everywhere who began calling poison control experts who without
studies to go by noted only that no dog should be allowed to eat chcolate
nor any part of a cocoa plant. Any veterinarian or poison control expert
will say categorically all parts of the cocoa plant are toxic to dogs due
to the theobromine content. The panic that the animal rights radicals
drummed will probably eventually induce some serious study, but already,
as a direct consequence of public terror, the University of Illinois
Horticultural Extension looked into it. Though no studies of consequence
exist, the amount of the harmful alkaloid in each part of the cocoa plant
is well known, so some speculative possibilities can be made. The husks
contain four times as much theobromine as a hershey's milk chocolate bar.
So while a child would have to feed FOUR POUNDS of milk chocolate bars to
a dog to kill it, a german shepard or a doberman would only have to eat
ONE POUND of cocoa mulch to kill itself (a chihuahua considerably less).
Less than 3 ounces of cocoa mulch might be enough to cause hyperactivity &
confusion or at least diarrhea. An estimated 1% of dogs are likely to be
"harmed" by the presence of accessible cocoa mulch -- that 1% includes
dogs with even slightly percievable non-lethal responses.

So it is a rational thing to think about, but the panic induced by clever
animal rights radicals -- the same people who consider even keeping a
companion animal in perfect health as "exploitative" & should be outlawed
-- certainly has exaggerated the "problem" beyond reason. Cocoa mulch will
never be as harmful as the plethora of "ordinary" garden chemicals all too
many suburban gardeners use all the time. If someone wants to add cocoa
mulch to their list of "no!" for the garden, fine with me, but I hope they
have started that list with insecticides, herbecides, fungicides, & even
the majority of chemical fertilizers.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Thanks for posting. I made some calls and did more reading today and I
learned what you've posted - could have saved myself some time :-)

I did learn that the husks are processed to remove much of the danger. It
looks like the husks in the studies are unprocessed so it's hard to know
what the study means to the product we carry.

Thanks,
Burl


"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article ,
unya (Purchgdss) wrote:

This is impossible!!!!! How is it possible for any organic product to
be poisonous????? This is sheer propaganda, false bullshit and other
lies put out by the chemical fertilizer industry.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ORGANIC PRODUCTS TO BE BAD!!!!!

Ahhhhhhh. I suggest you rethink this. Poisons are just as organic as
anything
else you can think of... Long before the chemical industry, organic
products
were known to be poisonous. Think about this. Here is a listing of
PLANTS
that are poisonous, can't get any more organic than that.
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/alphalist.html Just because it's an
"organic product" doesn't mean it isn't poisonous if taken internally
(which is
what a dog would do if they ate the mulch).

Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

I'm pretty sure Mather was being Swiftian, not serious, but maybe I was
just getting a joke that wasn't told.

However, all risks being relative, cocoa mulch wouldn't be one of my high
worries, except it gets moldy & isn't nearly as pleasant in month three as
it was in week one.

But for threat to dogs, first of all, mainly only neurotic dogs would eat
such stuff, & will probably kill themselves sooner getting blockages &
internal injuries from also eating nails & children's toys. Such dog
neuroses are usually caused by an owner's abuse & neglect, whether
emotional of physical, so protecting the dog from cocoa mulch is a bit far
down the list of who or what it needs protection from.

Furthermore, cedar chippings are MUCH more threatening to MANY MORE dogs.
These lodge splinters in dogs' pads that easily become infected. If the
statistic is true that less than 2% of dogs even sample cocoa mulch, &
only half that 2% become even moderately ill, compare that to the greater
possibility of harm to ALL dogs that walk on or especially dig in cedar or
redwood chips.

So switching from cocoa mulch to cedar because an abused neurotic dog
MIGHT eat cocoa mulch just causes foot & pad injuries to the greater
percentage of healthy normal dogs. Not all woodchips splinter the way
cedar & redwood does, so just about any other type of woodchip would be
safer, but because cedar & redwood lasts longest, mostly only the
potentially harmful stuff is used.

But you know what I like best as a topcoating? Cheep fully composted steer
manure. Well composted steer manure looks like rich black loam, but is a
sterile surface coating that retards weed seeds from germinating while
simultaneously enriching the lower soil as the topcoating is rained
through. It has to be applied once a year preferably in autumn possibly in
spring. Leafmold is just as nice if you can make it yourself from
gathered leaves, but hard to have a lot of that at once. All sterile
composts are quite good for this purpose, but steer manure tends to be
extremely cheap. The chap who runs Heronswood recommended steer manure &
deplores woodchips. I now use finer composts & home-made composts when
working a soil deeply, but for a topcoating, cheapo steer manure has
worked GREAT and cut down my weeding chores way more than I'd expected
from it.

And as for the alkaloids in chocolate that are so deadly to dogs, the
primary source is always going to be children with candybars who don't
know how harmful it is to share with the dog. Most chocolate bars are milk
chocolate & do not contain enough of the alkaloid theomobrine to make a
dog sick, unless an awfully little dog, or unless they eat three or four
pounds of chocolate at a go. It wouldn't take a lot of unsweetened dark
baking chocolate to kill a dog outright, but how many kids are carrying
around a can of unsweetened baker's cocoa. Since children frequently just
feed dogs a piece or two of milk chocolate, they never see the harm that
can be done, as it's unwise but not a killer at such low doses.

The reason actually USEFUL & specific information is not generally cited
is because the "cocoa mulch scare" was started by the radical fringe of
the Animal Rights community under the guidance of John Frazier,
antivivesectionist. Now I'm an antivivisectionist myself, but many in the
animal rights community take it way too far & have rendered the whole idea
of "Animal Rights" absurd. The people who want you to pressure Home Depot
& Foremans for selling cocoa mulch are the same people who are fighting
against your right to have a pet at all. I do not exaggerate; Peta's long
term goal is to stop people from keeping pets, OR livestock. I share some
of the same moral principles in that I personally would never eat an
animal, nor experiment on an animal, but I do not want to impose my
morality on others by law the way Peta would like to do, & I certainly
would not include all domestic uses of animals as unacceptable. What such
organizations like to do with their "public face" is issue warnings like
this one against cocoa mulch, but their wording of the "warnings"
targetted Home Depot & Foremans for strictly political, not educative
purposes. They wanted to induce an edge of hysteria in the public that
would put pressure against businesses to assist groups like Peta in
furthering an agenda that is a lot more about crazy impositions against
human rights than it is about the safety or preservation of animals. Peta
is on record that it would be better tha all animals were extinct than be
exploited -- whether exploited as pets or as food.

The germ of truth to the warning is hampered by it actually being a
fear-tactic used as a weapon against Home Depot & Foreman's. The original
propoganda warning said there were "several deaths" per week & claimed
also that cats would be poisoned -- neither statement had any basis. Yet
they were so successful they scared the bejabbers out of gardeners & dog
owners everywhere who began calling poison control experts who without
studies to go by noted only that no dog should be allowed to eat chcolate
nor any part of a cocoa plant. Any veterinarian or poison control expert
will say categorically all parts of the cocoa plant are toxic to dogs due
to the theobromine content. The panic that the animal rights radicals
drummed will probably eventually induce some serious study, but already,
as a direct consequence of public terror, the University of Illinois
Horticultural Extension looked into it. Though no studies of consequence
exist, the amount of the harmful alkaloid in each part of the cocoa plant
is well known, so some speculative possibilities can be made. The husks
contain four times as much theobromine as a hershey's milk chocolate bar.
So while a child would have to feed FOUR POUNDS of milk chocolate bars to
a dog to kill it, a german shepard or a doberman would only have to eat
ONE POUND of cocoa mulch to kill itself (a chihuahua considerably less).
Less than 3 ounces of cocoa mulch might be enough to cause hyperactivity &
confusion or at least diarrhea. An estimated 1% of dogs are likely to be
"harmed" by the presence of accessible cocoa mulch -- that 1% includes
dogs with even slightly percievable non-lethal responses.

So it is a rational thing to think about, but the panic induced by clever
animal rights radicals -- the same people who consider even keeping a
companion animal in perfect health as "exploitative" & should be outlawed
-- certainly has exaggerated the "problem" beyond reason. Cocoa mulch will
never be as harmful as the plethora of "ordinary" garden chemicals all too
many suburban gardeners use all the time. If someone wants to add cocoa
mulch to their list of "no!" for the garden, fine with me, but I hope they
have started that list with insecticides, herbecides, fungicides, & even
the majority of chemical fertilizers.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

On Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:44:10 -0700,
(paghat) wrote:

mainly only neurotic dogs

err, half of suburban and city dogs?

(well it IS cheaper than the county pound!)

If it is truly a fungal dominated mulch, there would be lots of garden
plots it would likely be unhealthy for.



"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson