Happybattles wrote:
Wow, didn't even think of poison ivy/oak.

what do you think about that diagnosis?

I sent the pictures to my primary physician, and he said it doesnt look
like it.
But I sent it to a friend who is also a doctor and he said it looks
like it.

So half the people thinks its poison ivy, the other half says its not.
Very frustrating.

Also - I wish I was half a buff as you.

lol, I wish I was.
I have not worked out in 3 weeks since this whole episode started, I've
just been sitting in the hotel room staring at the bed spread trying to
see if anything is moving. (and last night, something was!)

On 5 Jun 2006 18:08:56 -0700, wrote:

snip
The reasons I am doubtful about the poison ivy diagnosis a
1. I was outside for 60 minutes with a shirt and long pants and
sneakers on a Sat. got a thing behind my ear, 1 under my armpit and 1
on my bicep on a Thursday. (plus I showered right when I was done
outside, and I rarely go into the garden)

If you were hot and sweaty this may not have been soon
enough for clean-up. I've heard less than 20 minutes for
bathing to be effective.

snip
opening them up and spreading the poison around to new places on your body.

Is that true? My mother told me that if you break a poison ivy bite,
the liquid/pus does not spread the poison ivy.

You don't spread it around by scratching the sores. This is
an old myth that refuses to die. Scratching can cause an
infection and possible scars though. It acts much like an
allergy and is in your bodies system. Antihistamines can
provide some relief. The most likely points of breakout are
sensitive skin which came in contact with the oil. However,
you can break out in other areas too, most commonly where
your skin is soft and thin.

I have had individual small spots similar to yours and large
areas on other occasions. My last tangle with PI was a mere
year ago. I had small spots scattered all over my upper
torso and arms. There were a few areas that looked more like
welts. I know exactly where I got into it. I was mowing
through a "nature trail" in our field and could see the
plants 6-10 inches tall. There wasn't a lot of them, I
washed up within an hour or so and I never got off the mower
while in their vicinity. It was a hot day, I was sweaty and
there must have been mowing debris thrown into the air. Some
spots looked like welts, never blistered. Others did
blister. The later appearing spots were less likely to
blister.

Urushiol is really strong stuff. I've heard/read that a
teaspoon full would be plenty enough to make everyone in NYC
plenty uncomfortable...

I would be curious to see some photos of the area around
where the Bamboo was cut. PI isn't hard to identify and
would still be in the area where you most likely got into
it. Especially of any three leafed plants growing 4 to 12
inches high. PI has alternate leaves with either smooth or
irregular edges on an oval shape. Most other harmless three
leaf plants have opposite leaves. If you take picts, be
really careful and watch where you step and touch.

Here are some links for PI I posted for someone else awhile
back:

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/796_ivy.html

http://www.bio.umass.edu/micro/immunology/poisoniv.htm

This page is good for identifying the plant. Note I don't
agree with all of the comments on it:

http://ncnatural.com/wildflwr/obnxious.html

Keep us posted on how you come out with this. It usually
takes a month for it to become but a bad memory...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 18:08:56 -0700, wrote:

snip
The reasons I am doubtful about the poison ivy diagnosis a
1. I was outside for 60 minutes with a shirt and long pants and
sneakers on a Sat. got a thing behind my ear, 1 under my armpit and 1
on my bicep on a Thursday. (plus I showered right when I was done
outside, and I rarely go into the garden)

If you were hot and sweaty this may not have been soon
enough for clean-up. I've heard less than 20 minutes for
bathing to be effective.

snip
opening them up and spreading the poison around to new places on your body.
Is that true? My mother told me that if you break a poison ivy bite,
the liquid/pus does not spread the poison ivy.

You don't spread it around by scratching the sores. This is
an old myth that refuses to die. Scratching can cause an
infection and possible scars though. It acts much like an
allergy and is in your bodies system. Antihistamines can
provide some relief. The most likely points of breakout are
sensitive skin which came in contact with the oil. However,
you can break out in other areas too, most commonly where
your skin is soft and thin.

I have had individual small spots similar to yours and large
areas on other occasions. My last tangle with PI was a mere
year ago. I had small spots scattered all over my upper
torso and arms. There were a few areas that looked more like
welts.

When my son got the poison oak on his leg, it looked like he was wearing
a bright red sock up to his knee. No spots, just one contiguous raised
red area. The first time he got it it was on his arm and trunk and was
a large connected mass, too. I think he might have had some little
blisters too, but I'm not certain. This was 16 years ago.



--Jenny

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info

http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood
Sugar Under Control

If you were hot and sweaty this may not have been soon
enough for clean-up. I've heard less than 20 minutes for
bathing to be effective.

But if I was hot and sweaty (pores opened) wouldnt I get the affects
sooner than 1 week?
=)
Plus every morning more appeared.
So it started 1 week later, and everyday there was at least 5 more
bumps.
Thats why I have some doubts about the PI diagnosis.

I have had individual small spots similar to yours and large
areas on other occasions. My last tangle with PI was a mere
year ago. I had small spots scattered all over my upper
torso and arms. There were a few areas that looked more like
welts. I know exactly where I got into it. I was mowing

So your last tangle with PI looked like how mine looks?
Interesting....
I hate THIS!!
2 docs said it was, and 2 said it wasnt.


I would be curious to see some photos of the area around
where the Bamboo was cut. PI isn't hard to identify and
would still be in the area where you most likely got into

the backyard has a fence, about 100 feet long.
I was on the right side/corner (I hopped over the fence)
Years ago (3-4?) a friend of my mother's helped cut the bamboo on the
left side and he got poison ivy.


Keep us posted on how you come out with this. It usually
takes a month for it to become but a bad memory...

To be honest, I dont care about the bumps/itchiness/etc
I HOPE it is poison ivy.
Cuz I am paranoid that I brought bugs home into the house.
THAT is what I concerned about.
=(

Thanks

Phisherman wrote:
My poison ivy appeared in patches, not evenly all over my body. This
may not be poison ivy. A lot of the bumps have been scratched and
could become infected, so something is needed to remove the itching.
If it is poison ivy you may need a hormone shot. You can tell a

Why do I need a hormone shot?

The dermatologist did say the reaction was severe so I got a cortisone
shot.
Is that what you mean?

bedbug infestation by their feces they leave behind. Skin breakouts

Thats only once there a alot. =(

can be difficult to diagnose and may be a symptom of something more
serious--see the best dermatologist you can find.

Thats what I am afraid of. But Im not sure what else it could be.
and two dermatologists gave 2 answers (bed bugs and poison ivy)

Leon Fisk wrote:

You don't spread it around by scratching the sores.

But if the chemical irritation is bad enough that you get blisters that
fill with liquid, the area is so sensitive that the mere act of
scratching and irritating the area spreads the inflammation and makes it
worse. It is not the urushiol spreading the poison ivy, it is the
scratching and irritation spreading the inflammation. It heals much
faster if you don't irritate the area mechanically by scratching. The
itching may drive you crazy, but it will heal faster if you don't
scratch.

Most poison ivy medicines just treat the itching. This in combination
with allergy pills and steroids is about the only treatment. In any
case, if you don't scratch it and get an infection, it usually starts to
clear up in a week.

The urushiol is fairly slow acting. When I was in the Forest Service we
used a prophylactic gel soap. We covered ourselves from head to toe with
this soap before a shift on a forest fire. Then when we got back 13
hours later, we took a shower in a steam and washed the soap off. This
prevented us from getting poison ivy everywhere except in our eyes and
lungs. We had to wear face masks when we were in areas where poison ivy
was burning since the smoke carries the urushiol in the air and it gets
in your eyes and lungs.

Once the oil is on your skin and/or clothes, you can touch it and spread
it around. You can get the oil on your hands when you take your clothes
and shoes off and then spread it to tender parts of your body. If you
sit on furniture with contaminated clothing, other people who touch it
with bare skin can get urushiol on them. If you take a good shower
after working in poison ivy with a brush and a strong soap it usually
will remove most of the urushiol and any reaction will be rather
minimal. Be sure to scrup in tender areas like between your finger and
around your wrists. Some people have hours before a visible reaction,
others have days. However, once you start seeing the reaction, it is
too late to prevent it.

However, clothing that has urushiol on it can still spread the reaction.
After working in poison ivy, I take off my clothes in front of the
washing machine and put them in myself and proceed directly to the
shower. My wife is very allergic, so I can't risk letting her touch my
contaminated clothes.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

On 7 Jun 2006 13:48:54 -0700, wrote:

If you were hot and sweaty this may not have been soon
enough for clean-up. I've heard less than 20 minutes for
bathing to be effective.

But if I was hot and sweaty (pores opened) wouldnt I get the affects
sooner than 1 week?
=)
Plus every morning more appeared.
So it started 1 week later, and everyday there was at least 5 more
bumps.
Thats why I have some doubts about the PI diagnosis.

The reaction/incubation period between individual people
varies greatly. A week would seem a bit long to me, but...
Is it possible that you had some early spots and just didn't
put together that something was wrong right away? I know
what a poison ivy reaction looks like and quite often I
notice it before it begins itching like the dickens.

I have had individual small spots similar to yours and large
areas on other occasions. My last tangle with PI was a mere
year ago. I had small spots scattered all over my upper
torso and arms. There were a few areas that looked more like
welts. I know exactly where I got into it. I was mowing

So your last tangle with PI looked like how mine looks?
Interesting....
I hate THIS!!
2 docs said it was, and 2 said it wasnt.

Take a look at this site/search output. Near the top are
several links to decent photos of peoples' reactions/rashes.

http://www.google.com/u/uiowa2?q=Poison+Ivy&sa=Search

Actually there is a lot of good, informative links to
articles on that page. The more informed you become the
better you will feel about it. Very few doctors are experts
on poison ivy. Most of the people sitting in their offices
don't really need to be seeing a doctor, so they don't
really have to do a thing...

I would be curious to see some photos of the area around
where the Bamboo was cut. PI isn't hard to identify and
would still be in the area where you most likely got into

the backyard has a fence, about 100 feet long.
I was on the right side/corner (I hopped over the fence)
Years ago (3-4?) a friend of my mother's helped cut the bamboo on the
left side and he got poison ivy.

I still think this is key to putting your mind at ease or
not. If there is obviously poison ivy growing where you were
working it is a safe bet that you probably got into it. If
you can't find any evidence in the area then you should
pursue the insect idea more. Crushing, cutting, mutilating
PI plants is just begging to get it. Merely brushing against
it and not breaking it open to its sap is less likely.

To be honest, I dont care about the bumps/itchiness/etc
I HOPE it is poison ivy.
Cuz I am paranoid that I brought bugs home into the house.
THAT is what I concerned about.

Go look for the poison ivy plants. If they are there it is
almost a sure bet that that is what you have.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Stephen Henning wrote:
Leon Fisk wrote:

You don't spread it around by scratching the sores.

But if the chemical irritation is bad enough that you get blisters that
fill with liquid, the area is so sensitive that the mere act of
scratching and irritating the area spreads the inflammation and makes it
worse. It is not the urushiol spreading the poison ivy, it is the
scratching and irritation spreading the inflammation. It heals much
faster if you don't irritate the area mechanically by scratching. The
itching may drive you crazy, but it will heal faster if you don't
scratch.

Most poison ivy medicines just treat the itching. This in combination
with allergy pills and steroids is about the only treatment. In any
case, if you don't scratch it and get an infection, it usually starts to
clear up in a week.

The urushiol is fairly slow acting. When I was in the Forest Service we
used a prophylactic gel soap. We covered ourselves from head to toe with
this soap before a shift on a forest fire. Then when we got back 13
hours later, we took a shower in a steam and washed the soap off. This
prevented us from getting poison ivy everywhere except in our eyes and
lungs. We had to wear face masks when we were in areas where poison ivy
was burning since the smoke carries the urushiol in the air and it gets
in your eyes and lungs.

Once the oil is on your skin and/or clothes, you can touch it and spread
it around. You can get the oil on your hands when you take your clothes
and shoes off and then spread it to tender parts of your body. If you
sit on furniture with contaminated clothing, other people who touch it
with bare skin can get urushiol on them. If you take a good shower
after working in poison ivy with a brush and a strong soap it usually
will remove most of the urushiol and any reaction will be rather
minimal. Be sure to scrup in tender areas like between your finger and
around your wrists. Some people have hours before a visible reaction,
others have days. However, once you start seeing the reaction, it is
too late to prevent it.

Has anybody had any luck with the product called "Zanfel"?

It's fairly new, and very expensive - about 40 dollars for a one ounce
tube. It's a special wash for poison ivy rash. The manufacturer
claims it stops the itching by bonding to the urushiol and removing it,
even after the oil has bonded to the skin and your immune system has
started attacking it (creating the rash and the itching).

I have a tube of it here. I have used it with mixed results.

"Ether Jones" wrote:

Has anybody had any luck with the product called "Zanfel"?

It's fairly new, and very expensive - about 40 dollars for a one ounce
tube. It's a special wash for poison ivy rash. The manufacturer
claims it stops the itching by bonding to the urushiol and removing it,
even after the oil has bonded to the skin and your immune system has
started attacking it (creating the rash and the itching).

I have a tube of it here. I have used it with mixed results.

The washes work best as preventatives after exposure but before the
rash. Nothing except time is a cure. Treatments just try to contain
the itch, the inflamation, and the other allergy symptoms.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Stephen Henning wrote:
"Ether Jones" wrote:

Has anybody had any luck with the product called "Zanfel"?

It's fairly new, and very expensive - about 40 dollars for a one ounce
tube. It's a special wash for poison ivy rash. The manufacturer
claims it stops the itching by bonding to the urushiol and removing it,
even after the oil has bonded to the skin and your immune system has
started attacking it (creating the rash and the itching).

I have a tube of it here. I have used it with mixed results.

The washes work best as preventatives after exposure but before the
rash. Nothing except time is a cure. Treatments just try to contain
the itch, the inflamation, and the other allergy symptoms.

Yes, I know this used to be the conventional wisdom.

But the point I was making is that Zanfel claims to have changed all
that.

Have you ever heard of Zanfel? Have you ever tried it? That was my
question.


I bought a tube of Zanfel a year ago to keep in the medicine cabinet
when a friend swore by it, since I have 10 wooded acres with serveral
patches of poison ivy.

I've had occasion to use it 3 or 4 times, and I've not been impressed.
I was wondering if anyone else has tried it with better results than I
obtained.

Gloria wrote:
Looks like a staff infection to me.

someone else mentioned that.
especially since I do wrestle while I am out of town for work.
and ring worm and staph is not uncommon in wrestling.

but I thought staph enters through a cut and infects it.
so it would be around the area of the cut...not spread all over.

On 6/8/06 3:02 PM, in article
, "Ether Jones"
wrote:


Stephen Henning wrote:
Leon Fisk wrote:

You don't spread it around by scratching the sores.

But if the chemical irritation is bad enough that you get blisters that
fill with liquid, the area is so sensitive that the mere act of
scratching and irritating the area spreads the inflammation and makes it
worse. It is not the urushiol spreading the poison ivy, it is the
scratching and irritation spreading the inflammation. It heals much
faster if you don't irritate the area mechanically by scratching. The
itching may drive you crazy, but it will heal faster if you don't
scratch.

Most poison ivy medicines just treat the itching. This in combination
with allergy pills and steroids is about the only treatment. In any
case, if you don't scratch it and get an infection, it usually starts to
clear up in a week.

The urushiol is fairly slow acting. When I was in the Forest Service we
used a prophylactic gel soap. We covered ourselves from head to toe with
this soap before a shift on a forest fire. Then when we got back 13
hours later, we took a shower in a steam and washed the soap off. This
prevented us from getting poison ivy everywhere except in our eyes and
lungs. We had to wear face masks when we were in areas where poison ivy
was burning since the smoke carries the urushiol in the air and it gets
in your eyes and lungs.

Once the oil is on your skin and/or clothes, you can touch it and spread
it around. You can get the oil on your hands when you take your clothes
and shoes off and then spread it to tender parts of your body. If you
sit on furniture with contaminated clothing, other people who touch it
with bare skin can get urushiol on them. If you take a good shower
after working in poison ivy with a brush and a strong soap it usually
will remove most of the urushiol and any reaction will be rather
minimal. Be sure to scrup in tender areas like between your finger and
around your wrists. Some people have hours before a visible reaction,
others have days. However, once you start seeing the reaction, it is
too late to prevent it.

Has anybody had any luck with the product called "Zanfel"?

It's fairly new, and very expensive - about 40 dollars for a one ounce
tube. It's a special wash for poison ivy rash. The manufacturer
claims it stops the itching by bonding to the urushiol and removing it,
even after the oil has bonded to the skin and your immune system has
started attacking it (creating the rash and the itching).

I have a tube of it here. I have used it with mixed results.

NO! but I might not have given it a fair test. Last PI attack may have gone
systemic with in hours of exposure.

Cheryl

"Ether Jones" wrote:

The washes work best as preventatives after exposure but before the
rash. Nothing except time is a cure. Treatments just try to contain
the itch, the inflamation, and the other allergy symptoms.

Yes, I know this used to be the conventional wisdom.

But the point I was making is that Zanfel claims to have changed all
that.

Zanfels claim and only claim is:
"Zanfel helps lift the toxin, urushiol, common to poison ivy, oak and
sumac from the skin where it has come into contact and bound to the
epidermis. This binding of plant toxin creates the allergic rash known
as poison ivy. By washing the urushiol oil out of the skin cells, relief
comes more quickly."

As one reviewer explained: "The scientific claims in the product
description defy belief. By the time the symptoms associated with
poision oak (ivy or sumac) show up, the urushiol has already been
metabolized and gotten rid of. If you're itching, you don't need
something to bind to and defeat urushiol, you need something to relieve
the skin that has reacted to one of the already-excreted breakdown
products of urushiol metabolism."

If you read reviews by users, you will find that some claim that it
relieved the itch. Others found it did nothing. You decide. Remember
most reviews are published by places that sell the product. However, by
the time you can get it from most pharmacies or mail order, the allergic
reaction would be clearing up on its own. Since it is very expensive
many pharmacies don't stock the stuff.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Stephen Henning wrote:

As one reviewer explained: "The scientific claims in the product
description defy belief. By the time the symptoms associated with
poision oak (ivy or sumac) show up, the urushiol has already been
metabolized and gotten rid of. If you're itching, you don't need
something to bind to and defeat urushiol, you need something to relieve
the skin that has reacted to one of the already-excreted breakdown
products of urushiol metabolism."

What is an "excreted" product of urushiol "metabolism" ??

My understanding of the mechanism of poison ivy rash is quite
different. The skin is not "reacting to" an "excreted product" of
"urushiol metabolism". Rather, the urushiol binds to the skin cells,
and the body's immune system no longer recogizes them as being part of
your body... so the immune system attacks the cells, causing the rash
and the itching. Once the affected cells have been destroyed, the
immune reaction stops and the rash clears up.

Is the above description now history, and the new theory about excreted
products of urushiol metabolism now the accepted explanation?