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Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old 21-07-2008, 08:18 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 13
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still
see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters.
As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will
no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will
the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've
tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked"
in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes
when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so.

TIA

Paul

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  #2  
Old 21-07-2008, 08:32 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 1,096
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

residual Sevin


http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G
olf_Sevin_Product_Information

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
  #3  
Old 21-07-2008, 09:04 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 503
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

residual Sevin


http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G
olf_Sevin_Product_Information

Bill


http://www.afpmb.org/pubs/standardli...-0887_msds.pdf
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related
  #4  
Old 22-07-2008, 01:46 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 13
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:32:09 -0400, Bill wrote:

In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

residual Sevin


http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G
olf_Sevin_Product_Information

Bill


Hmmmm .."Sevin provides at least 2 weeks residual insect control from a
single application"

Thanks for the pointer. A month has passed. Two more weeks until they're
ripe enough to pick. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try to wash/rinse the
individual grape bunches with mild soapy water and use a paint brush to
scrub with. I've had a bumper crop this year and would hate to loose all
those pretty grapes. Then again getting poisoned over it doesn't sound
very inviting. Do you suppose my idea of washing the bunches off to be a
realistic solution ?

= Paul =

  #5  
Old 22-07-2008, 01:51 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 13
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:04:49 -0700, Billy wrote:

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

residual Sevin


http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G
olf_Sevin_Product_Information

Bill


http://www.afpmb.org/pubs/standardli...-0887_msds.pdf


I failed to see mention of time limits or half life info listed at the
above mentioned. Just first aid ( after the fact ) and prevetitive info.
Or did I miss something ?

Thanks for the pointer.

= Paul =



  #6  
Old 22-07-2008, 01:54 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 503
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still
see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters.
As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will
no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will
the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've
tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked"
in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes
when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so.

TIA

Paul


"IF" you get the fermentation to go dry (and only if you get it to go
dry), my guess is that it will be safe to drink. That is because either
the yeast will have metabolized the residue from the pesticide or will
have incorporated it into their bodies (heavy metals). With that in
mind, don't age the wine on the lees ;o)
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related
  #7  
Old 22-07-2008, 01:55 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 13
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:28:56 -0500, Jangchub wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"
wrote:

Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still
see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters.
As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will
no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will
the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've
tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked"
in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes
when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so.

TIA

Paul


I wouldn't eat them.


I hadn't planned on eating them. I wish to make wine of them. I might
try washing the binches with mild soapy water and see how they look.
Hopefully I can get it (Sevin) gone... But if'n that don't do it, I will
trash the grapes and not take a chance.

= Paul =

  #8  
Old 22-07-2008, 01:59 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 13
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:54:56 -0700, Billy wrote:

In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still
see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters.
As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will
no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will
the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've
tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked"
in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes
when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so.

TIA

Paul


"IF" you get the fermentation to go dry (and only if you get it to go
dry), my guess is that it will be safe to drink. That is because either
the yeast will have metabolized the residue from the pesticide or will
have incorporated it into their bodies (heavy metals). With that in
mind, don't age the wine on the lees ;o)


Good point .. Thank you. I will first try to wash/rinse the bunches
individually. If that appears to rid the grapes of the residue then
I will continue towards making the wine with your suggestions in
mind.

= Paul =

  #9  
Old 22-07-2008, 03:27 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 713
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:
´┐ŻLast month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters.


Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for
applying Sevin.

  #10  
Old 22-07-2008, 03:42 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 478
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, Paul J. Dudley
wrote:
Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still


Hm. Maybe next time you'll read and follow the label directions?

As far as the half life of Sevin (not seven):
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/carbaryl.htm

Note that carbaryl is bound by organic matter.

Personally, I wouldn't touch these grapes.
  #11  
Old 22-07-2008, 07:11 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 503
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:32:09 -0400, Bill wrote:

In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

residual Sevin


http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G
olf_Sevin_Product_Information

Bill


Hmmmm .."Sevin provides at least 2 weeks residual insect control from a
single application"

Thanks for the pointer. A month has passed. Two more weeks until they're
ripe enough to pick. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try to wash/rinse the
individual grape bunches with mild soapy water and use a paint brush to
scrub with. I've had a bumper crop this year and would hate to loose all
those pretty grapes. Then again getting poisoned over it doesn't sound
very inviting. Do you suppose my idea of washing the bunches off to be a
realistic solution ?

= Paul =


No. Rinse any pesticide residue off and ferment dry. If it doesn't go
dry, chuck it.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related
  #12  
Old 22-07-2008, 01:38 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 67
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

Paul J. Dudley wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:28:56 -0500, Jangchub
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, "Paul J.
Dudley" wrote:

Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven
dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied
by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a
time and just tossed it across the whole of the
foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July
and I still see some rather rich deposits of
the dust sitting on the clusters. As these
grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness
they will no doubt be harvested within the next
2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven
dust pose any health threats at this point ?
I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no
avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas.
There might have been some moisture on the
grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it
to do so.

TIA

Paul


I wouldn't eat them.


I hadn't planned on eating them. I wish to
make wine of them. I might
try washing the binches with mild soapy water
and see how they look. Hopefully I can get it
(Sevin) gone... But if'n that don't do it, I
will trash the grapes and not take a chance.

= Paul =


I believe the normal time before harvest is seven
days - BUT - you put on a heavy dose AND on the
fruit. I would call the manufacturer and ask
them. You might also consider getting a back
pack sprayer.

In the future, consider Imidan. It is suppose to
be more friendly to beneficals and it will kill
the beatles. Also, the beatles do not eat the
fruit so there really is no need to use the seven
on them. I only use pesticides on the fruit if I
see a heavy infestation of the Grape Berry Moths.
The beatles eat the youngest shoots at the top of
the canopy, not the older leaves or the fruit.
  #13  
Old 22-07-2008, 04:34 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 13
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:27:39 -0700, Sheldon wrote:

"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:
Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters.


Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for
applying Sevin.



The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father,
complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the
vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did.

If you don't have anything more constructive to offer than your
sarcastic critisism, please keep it to yourself.

= Paul =




  #14  
Old 22-07-2008, 07:05 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 13
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:22:28 -0500, Jangchub wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:55:20 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:28:56 -0500, Jangchub wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"
wrote:

Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still
see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters.
As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will
no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will
the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've
tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked"
in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes
when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so.

TIA

Paul

I wouldn't eat them.


I hadn't planned on eating them. I wish to make wine of them. I might
try washing the binches with mild soapy water and see how they look.
Hopefully I can get it (Sevin) gone... But if'n that don't do it, I will
trash the grapes and not take a chance.

= Paul =


Okay Paul, if it can systemically enter your skin and cause harmful
reactions, don't you know it will also be systemic on the cell walls
of grapes?


Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for
the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her
greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old
nylon stocking. In fact, she does the same with her corn (at the silk
end of the ear just as soon as soon as silk appears).

I know one thing. I'll never use Sevin on my grapes again. I used to
use a Pyrethrin based pesticide ( Tiger Brand ) but haven't seen it at
the store this year. It breaks down rather quickly and most veggies can
be ingested within a week after it's use. The Sevin was given to me
and I tried it. I made a mistake. All I want to know now is ( and I
thought that was clear ) has enough time passed to degrade the dust
enough or would it still be hazardous ( ... and would washing them be
of any use ) .

In two weeks I will pick said grapes. I will attempt to wash the bunches
by hand. Depending of that outcome, I will either prepare them for wine
or if washing doesn't seem to remove the residue I will trash those
bunches that won't wash clean.

= Paul =





  #15  
Old 22-07-2008, 07:51 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 11
Default Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?


"Paul J. Dudley" wrote in message
Okay Paul, if it can systemically enter your skin and cause harmful
reactions, don't you know it will also be systemic on the cell walls
of grapes?


Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for
the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her
greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old
nylon stocking. In fact, she does the same with her corn (at the silk
end of the ear just as soon as soon as silk appears).

You got to be kidding. Have people still not learned to have more respect
for the environment and themselves?

I know one thing. I'll never use Sevin on my grapes again. I used to
use a Pyrethrin based pesticide ( Tiger Brand ) but haven't seen it at
the store this year. It breaks down rather quickly and most veggies can
be ingested within a week after it's use. The Sevin was given to me
and I tried it. I made a mistake. All I want to know now is ( and I
thought that was clear ) has enough time passed to degrade the dust
enough or would it still be hazardous ( ... and would washing them be
of any use ) .

In two weeks I will pick said grapes. I will attempt to wash the bunches
by hand. Depending of that outcome, I will either prepare them for wine
or if washing doesn't seem to remove the residue I will trash those
bunches that won't wash clean.

As someone else pointed out, the grapes will have absorbed the Sevin.
No way would I ever eat them or use them in wine.
Sounds like that was a really expensive gift you got.
Japanese beetles are easily knocked into a bowl of water to drown and sure
when they're at peak you have to do it every day but it still beats poison.


 




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