[Henry VIII]

We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus trees in
the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where the trees are is
plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated. The tree roots do not
appear above ground.

We'd like to pour concrete in the back yard area to make a patio. Any
suggestions on what to do or not do when laying out the concrete forms such
as minimum distance to the trunks?

The trees have been here a long time and we don't want to do anything that
will injure them. This is in Los Angeles.

Thanks.

[David E. Ross]

On 9/17/2008 8:54 AM, Henry VIII wrote:
We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus trees in
the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where the trees are is
plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated. The tree roots do not
appear above ground.

We'd like to pour concrete in the back yard area to make a patio. Any
suggestions on what to do or not do when laying out the concrete forms such
as minimum distance to the trunks?

The trees have been here a long time and we don't want to do anything that
will injure them. This is in Los Angeles.

Thanks.




Paving in the root zone of a tree -- even when the roots are deep -- is
NEVER a good idea. There are alternative ways to make a patio in that
area that do not involve poured concrete.

I suggest you frame the area with a composition board (not wood) or a
concrete curb. Then level it by pouring pea gravel within the frame.
You don't want to add so much gravel that it comes to the top of the
frame, just enough to make a level base.

Then, you have some choices.

You can lay unmortared brick on top of the gravel. Use a broom to brush
dry sand between the bricks to lock them in place.

You can lay concrete blocks. Use the thinner blocks that are only 4
inches high with the holes up (not the standard 8 inches). Fill the
holes 3/4 to the top with more pea gravel and then finish with
decomposed granite (DG). Rinse the DG into the gravel and add some
more. Repeate until you have a level surface.

Top the gravel with DG. Rinse, tamp, rinse, tamp, etc. Add more DG to
bring the whole thing to the height you want. Eventually, you will get
a surface that is firm enough to hold a table and chairs (choose
furniture with broad feet); you will even be able to rake it. You might
want framing within the patio, which will provide both decoration and
stability.

Lay field stone or irregular broken pieces of concrete with DG between.
Again, you will have to rinse, tamp, etc.

All of these will permit rain to penetrate the patio to irrigate the
tree roots below. They will also allow oxygen into the soil.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

[symplastless]

I would suggest

www.shigoandtrees.com

Email me at and I will put you in contact with
people with background in tree biology in your area to help you with your
tree.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.


"Henry VIII" wrote in message
...
We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus trees
in the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where the trees
are is plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated. The tree roots
do not appear above ground.

We'd like to pour concrete in the back yard area to make a patio. Any
suggestions on what to do or not do when laying out the concrete forms
such as minimum distance to the trunks?

The trees have been here a long time and we don't want to do anything that
will injure them. This is in Los Angeles.

Thanks.

[symplastless]

Contact me at 610-864-5251 and I will help you.

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

"Henry VIII" wrote in message
...
We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus trees
in the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where the trees
are is plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated. The tree roots
do not appear above ground.

We'd like to pour concrete in the back yard area to make a patio. Any
suggestions on what to do or not do when laying out the concrete forms
such as minimum distance to the trunks?

The trees have been here a long time and we don't want to do anything that
will injure them. This is in Los Angeles.

Thanks.

[symplastless]

"Henry VIII" wrote in message
...
We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus trees
in the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where the trees
are is plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated.

Do you mean plain soil?




The tree roots do not
appear above ground.

Most absorbing roots are in the upper four inches of soil. They also may be
inside nurse logs if you have that ecological stage. If tree roots
(non-woody) are growing in fine mulch than the mulch is too thick. Most
woody roots of most trees are usually in upper 3-4 feet, I believe. there
are some extremes like in mine shafts.


We'd like to pour concrete in the back yard area to make a patio. Any
suggestions on what to do or not do when laying out the concrete forms
such as minimum distance to the trunks?

As far as possible from trunk. Set up barriers to keep people and equipment
off soil in area keeping. Have an arborist do construction protection.
Finding a dedicated arborist with required knowledge of trees and associates
may be hard for you to find. Dr. Shigo made a list of questions to ask a
person to see if they have a basic understanding of the patient.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...ES/quiz_2.html I would take
this seriously. If woody roots are wounded prune them correctly back to
good wood.
See pruning roots at bottom of page.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...ing/index.html

When you prune the roots I would suggest adding water and microelements
because the tree will get its only free drink of water. Not nitrogen! Just
microelements.

The undisturbed project area should be "properly" mulched to reduce soil
compaction and such. tell workers to stay off mulch.
Mulching -
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html


The trees have been here a long time and we don't want to do anything that
will injure them. This is in Los Angeles.

Than phone me and let me walk you through this.

Also be aware of problems associated with upper four inches of soil and
contents.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html



Thanks.

No, thank you!


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

[D. Staples]

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Henry VIII" wrote in message
...
We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus trees
in the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where the trees
are is plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated.

Do you mean plain soil?

Ignore this punk, he is nothing more that a yard boy, posing as someone who
knows about trees.

[symplastless]

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Staples"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Eucalyptus Tree Question



"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Henry VIII" wrote in message
...
We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus
trees in the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where the
trees are is plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated.

Do you mean plain soil?

Ignore this punk, he is nothing more that a yard boy, posing as someone
who knows about trees.
Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

Ok, then, Don Staples. Please provide data specific to Texas that states
that your salvage and restoration work increases the health of a forest
rather
than what I state, that your practice is deforestation. Please
provide the page and paragraph number where your data can be found stating
that you increase forest health by your salvage and restoration work. You
claim I am a fraud while all along you promote deforestation. You claim to
be a consulting forester. Please consult and provide the data for your
practice.
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

In reality Don Staples claims to be a "consulting forester" while he refuses
to define specifically what that is at his website at:
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/forestry/staples.htm

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

[D. Staples]

"sympnlastless" wrote in message
...
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Staples"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Eucalyptus Tree Question


Blow it out your ass, you uneducated fraud.

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting yard boy
www.treeddictionary.com
and
http://home.ccdil.org/~treeman
Watch out for yard boys who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and
other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

[Henry VIII[_2_]]

Being new to this NG, I bring no biases, history or axes to grind. I only
know what I read. So I can honestly say that you, symplastless, come across
to almost any newcomer as someone who is uneducated and a troublemaker. A
troll, in other words, of the most annoying kind, so categorized by your own
words.

Your written English is awful, and your knowledge of the subject apparently
is similar to that of a gardner I once employed when I lived in Asia.

I have no idea why you spend time here, only to embarrass yourself and annoy
others.

I suggest you find something constructive to do.


"symplastless" wrote in message
...
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Staples"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Eucalyptus Tree Question



"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Henry VIII" wrote in message
...
We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus
trees in the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where
the trees are is plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated.

Do you mean plain soil?

Ignore this punk, he is nothing more that a yard boy, posing as someone
who knows about trees.
Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

Ok, then, Don Staples. Please provide data specific to Texas that states
that your salvage and restoration work increases the health of a forest
rather
than what I state, that your practice is deforestation. Please
provide the page and paragraph number where your data can be found stating
that you increase forest health by your salvage and restoration work. You
claim I am a fraud while all along you promote deforestation. You claim
to
be a consulting forester. Please consult and provide the data for your
practice.
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

In reality Don Staples claims to be a "consulting forester" while he
refuses
to define specifically what that is at his website at:
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/forestry/staples.htm

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and
other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

[symplastless]

"Henry VIII" wrote in message
...

Thanks for sharing.

Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case
Sensitive.

Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20..._planting.html

Improper Mulching -
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html

Improper Pruning
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning

Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry)
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html

Tree Farming and Related Problems
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

[symplastless]

"D. Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...

"sympnlastless" wrote in message
...
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Staples"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Eucalyptus Tree Question


Blow it out your [snip], you uneducated fraud.

Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

Ok, then, Don Staples. Please provide data specific to Texas that states
that your salvage and restoration work increases the health of a forest
rather
than what I state, that your practice is deforestation. Please
provide the page and paragraph number where your data can be found stating
that you increase forest health by your salvage and restoration work. You
claim I am a fraud while all along you promote deforestation claiming sound
treatment for landowners investment. You claim to be a consulting forester.
Please consult and provide the data for your practice.
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

In reality, Don Staples claims to be a "consulting forester" while he
refuses to define specifically what that is at his website at:
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/forestry/staples.htm I wonder what it
could be?

[D. Staples]

symplastless wrote:
"D. Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...
"sympnlastless" wrote in message
...
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Staples"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Eucalyptus Tree Question


Blow it out your [snip], you uneducated fraud.

Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

Ok, then, Don Staples. Please provide data specific to Texas that states
that your salvage and restoration work increases the health of a forest
rather
than what I state, that your practice is deforestation. Please
provide the page and paragraph number where your data can be found stating
that you increase forest health by your salvage and restoration work. You
claim I am a fraud while all along you promote deforestation claiming sound
treatment for landowners investment. You claim to be a consulting forester.
Please consult and provide the data for your practice.
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

In reality, Don Staples claims to be a "consulting forester" while he
refuses to define specifically what that is at his website at:
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/forestry/staples.htm I wonder what it
could be?
Hey, yard boy, provide proof you have an education beyond the 6th grade.
You should be able to do that between your shifts of collecting garbage.

[symplastless]

"D. Staples" wrote in message
yinc...
symplastless wrote:
"D. Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...
"sympnlastless" wrote in message
...
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Staples"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Eucalyptus Tree Question


Blow it out your [snip], you uneducated fraud.

Hey, yard boy, provide proof you have an education beyond the 6th grade.
Don Staples - Consulting Salvage Hog
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm

In reality Don Staples claims to be a "consulting forester" while he refuses
to define specifically what that is at his website at:
http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/forestry/staples.htm

PLEASE DEFINE WHAT YOU ARE. "CONSULTING FORESTER" YOUR LINK IS DEAD.
@ http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/forestry/staples.htm


Ok, then, Don Staples. Please provide data specific to Texas that states
that your salvage and restoration work increases the health of a forest
rather
than what I state, that your practice is deforestation. Please
provide the page and paragraph number where your data can be found stating
that you increase forest health by your salvage and restoration work. You
claim I am a fraud while all along you promote deforestation claiming sound
treatment for landowners investment. You claim to be a consulting forester.
Please consult and provide the data for your practice.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

[D. Staples]

symplastless wrote:
"D. Staples" wrote in message
yinc...
symplastless wrote:
"D. Staples" wrote in message
omsupplyinc...
"sympnlastless" wrote in message
...
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Staples"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Eucalyptus Tree Question


Blow it out your [snip], you uneducated fraud.


See above, yard boy.

[none]

It will be the drip zone you need to look at. Go by how wide the canopy
is. And keep in mine that it could get wider. If you aren't sure come up
with method that lets water through instead of blocking it - pavers with
a decent amount of space between them perhaps.

Hey, you didn't know such a simple question could start a flame war did
you?

cheers

jules

Henry VIII wrote:
We have just moved to a new home that has two fifty-foot eucalyptus trees in
the back yard about 20 feet from the house. The area where the trees are is
plain dirt that has never been planted/irrigated. The tree roots do not
appear above ground.

We'd like to pour concrete in the back yard area to make a patio. Any
suggestions on what to do or not do when laying out the concrete forms such
as minimum distance to the trunks?

The trees have been here a long time and we don't want to do anything that
will injure them. This is in Los Angeles.

Thanks.