[eva shovelful]

Hello,
I am new to this gardening newsgroup and I thought that I would ask a
serious question. My husband and I live in the western part of
Tennessee and recently while working out in the yard in the gardens
we're building together, we have come across not one, but three very
large black widow spiders. Being benevolent and not apt to freak out
in spite of the fact that these spiders ARE poisonous, I looked it up
on the internet and found out that they're not aggressive. My husband
is European and unfamiliar with these things, and he managed to put
the first one we found into a half gallon glass pickle jar he'd rinsed
out for other things. I poked a hole into it, and put some leaves and
a twig for her to hide (she did) and later a piece of screen door
screen just to make sure, and eventually she died. But later, while I
was planting some hemerocalis rhizomes, I happened across yet another
one, this one larger than the last one, hiding in the rhizomes in the
soil of the pot I had these growing in. She slipped me. And
yesterday, hidden in some rhizomes of iris, my husband, Henry found
yet another one of these things! Is this normal? I mean, I realize
that they are not aggressive, or at least the article about them says
they're not, and yesterday it unsettled me enough that I squashed her
good. But the second one is now unaccounted for in the garden that I
will be working in come spring time. This area has had a large amount
of rain, by the way, and I just thought maybe it was the wet weather.
Or am I kidding myself and these are indigenous to this area? We
moved here in late spring and I didn't come across any at all at that
time, but now, not one but three?

I have lots more questions for anyone willing to answer me about
them. I see this newsgroup is pretty informative and there are some
who are very helpful with legitimate questions regarding gardening
problems. By the way, how do I find out what garden zone I am in? I
am very frustrated with the local extension agents here because it's
predominately a farming area on a large and commercial scale. Mostly
corn, soybeans, millet and cotton. I haven't seen much in the way of
unique plantings, yet. But now that we've moved here, I hope to break
that common thread I see in every yard. Nandina, crape myrtles, all
seemingly the watermelon color or white ones, mums, celosia (a local
woman called them cocks combs) lots of boxwood, Banana plants of all
things, canna's, elephant ears and lantana that apparently comes
back. So I need to find out how to find the gardening limit zone for
growing. Any ideas?

Thank you in advance.

always,
Eva Shovelful

[David Hare-Scott[_2_]]

eva shovelful wrote:
.. I see this newsgroup is pretty informative and there are some
who are very helpful with legitimate questions regarding gardening
problems. By the way, how do I find out what garden zone I am in?

http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/ushzmap.html

There are similar maps for other countries in other places.

I
am very frustrated with the local extension agents here because it's
predominately a farming area on a large and commercial scale. Mostly
corn, soybeans, millet and cotton. I haven't seen much in the way of
unique plantings, yet. But now that we've moved here, I hope to break
that common thread I see in every yard. Nandina, crape myrtles, all
seemingly the watermelon color or white ones, mums, celosia (a local
woman called them cocks combs) lots of boxwood, Banana plants of all
things, canna's, elephant ears and lantana that apparently comes
back. So I need to find out how to find the gardening limit zone for
growing. Any ideas?

Thank you in advance.


The above will give you a start but it tells you only about cold hardiness.
There is some correlation between that and other conditions, eg a zone that
has a very cold winter is unlikely to have a very hot summer. But within a
given cold zone there are other climate conditions such as the maximum heat
of the summer and the length of the growing season which can make a
difference. Also microclimate can make a difference, for example, some of
my neighbours who are up the hill (in the same cold zone) have much less
trouble with frost sensitive plants than I do.

David

[Phisherman[_3_]]

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:58:33 -0700 (PDT), eva shovelful
wrote:

Hello,
I am new to this gardening newsgroup and I thought that I would ask a

snip

I have found three black widow spiders in 17 years. They are common
in this area, scorpions too. I'm in east TN, zone 7. Always watch
wear you put your hands and feet. You can quickly find a zone map
using Google.

[Freckles[_5_]]

"eva shovelful" wrote in message
...
Hello,
I am new to this gardening newsgroup and I thought that I would ask a
serious question. My husband and I live in the western part of
Tennessee and recently while working out in the yard in the gardens
we're building together, we have come across not one, but three very
large black widow spiders. Being benevolent and not apt to freak out
in spite of the fact that these spiders ARE poisonous, I looked it up
on the internet and found out that they're not aggressive. My husband
is European and unfamiliar with these things, and he managed to put
the first one we found into a half gallon glass pickle jar he'd rinsed
out for other things. I poked a hole into it, and put some leaves and
a twig for her to hide (she did) and later a piece of screen door
screen just to make sure, and eventually she died. But later, while I
was planting some hemerocalis rhizomes, I happened across yet another
one, this one larger than the last one, hiding in the rhizomes in the
soil of the pot I had these growing in. She slipped me. And
yesterday, hidden in some rhizomes of iris, my husband, Henry found
yet another one of these things! Is this normal? I mean, I realize
that they are not aggressive, or at least the article about them says
they're not, and yesterday it unsettled me enough that I squashed her
good. But the second one is now unaccounted for in the garden that I
will be working in come spring time. This area has had a large amount
of rain, by the way, and I just thought maybe it was the wet weather.
Or am I kidding myself and these are indigenous to this area? We
moved here in late spring and I didn't come across any at all at that
time, but now, not one but three?

I have lots more questions for anyone willing to answer me about
them. I see this newsgroup is pretty informative and there are some
who are very helpful with legitimate questions regarding gardening
problems. By the way, how do I find out what garden zone I am in? I
am very frustrated with the local extension agents here because it's
predominately a farming area on a large and commercial scale. Mostly
corn, soybeans, millet and cotton. I haven't seen much in the way of
unique plantings, yet. But now that we've moved here, I hope to break
that common thread I see in every yard. Nandina, crape myrtles, all
seemingly the watermelon color or white ones, mums, celosia (a local
woman called them cocks combs) lots of boxwood, Banana plants of all
things, canna's, elephant ears and lantana that apparently comes
back. So I need to find out how to find the gardening limit zone for
growing. Any ideas?

Thank you in advance.

always,
Eva Shovelful

I have lived in a number of states. (Kentucky, North Carolina, California
and Texas) and have seen black widow spiders in all of them. I don't think
they are aggressive, and they do more good than harm, but I too have a fear
of them. I normally let then alone, but if I find one close to, or in the
house, I will kill it.

Freckles

[FarmI]

"eva shovelful" wrote in message

we have come across not one, but three very
large black widow spiders. Being benevolent and not apt to freak out
in spite of the fact that these spiders ARE poisonous, I looked it up
on the internet and found out that they're not aggressive.
And
yesterday, hidden in some rhizomes of iris, my husband, Henry found
yet another one of these things! Is this normal?

Being in Australia, I know nothing about the insects of the USA, but having
said that, it seems from what others have said that it is quite normal for
them to occur in your area. I do know that your Black Widows and our Red
Back Spiders are related and I have lots of Red Backs in my garden.

Welcome them because a good spider and bird population tell you that your
surroundings are worth living in because it hasn't been nuked till it glows.
:-))

My attitude is the more naturally occurring insects and birds and even
reptiles (and sometimes that even included [shudder!] snakes) the better.

I mean, I realize
that they are not aggressive, or at least the article about them says
they're not, and yesterday it unsettled me enough that I squashed her
good. But the second one is now unaccounted for in the garden that I
will be working in come spring time.

Never garden without gloves or wearing shoes and socks is my motto (not that
I always obey the shoes and socks bit- silly of me given my situation).


By the way, how do I find out what garden zone I am in? I
am very frustrated with the local extension agents here because it's
predominately a farming area on a large and commercial scale. Mostly
corn, soybeans, millet and cotton. I haven't seen much in the way of
unique plantings, yet. But now that we've moved here, I hope to break
that common thread I see in every yard. Nandina, crape myrtles, all
seemingly the watermelon color or white ones, mums, celosia (a local
woman called them cocks combs) lots of boxwood, Banana plants of all
things, canna's, elephant ears and lantana that apparently comes
back. So I need to find out how to find the gardening limit zone for
growing. Any ideas?

:-)) Another American woman in another gorup I read has been commenting on
the uniformity and lack of variety and originality of planting in her area
:-))

Perhaps that is all that is available to buy in local nurseries??? Perhaps
the local arent' very adventurous or dont' know what else is available???
Perhaps you'll just have to do some trial and error planting and get
plants/seeds in from mail order nurseries.

[eva shovelful]

On Oct 19, 12:24*am, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
eva shovelful wrote:

. *I see this newsgroup is pretty informative and there are some

who are very helpful with legitimate questions regarding gardening
problems. *By the way, how do I find out what garden zone I am in?

http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/ushzmap.html

There are similar maps for other countries in other places.

I

am very frustrated with the local extension agents here because it's
predominately a farming area on a large and commercial scale. Mostly
corn, soybeans, millet and cotton. *I haven't seen much in the way of
unique plantings, yet. But now that we've moved here, I hope to break
that common thread I see in every yard. *Nandina, crape myrtles, all
seemingly the watermelon color or white ones, mums, celosia (a local
woman called them cocks combs) lots of boxwood, Banana plants of all
things, canna's, elephant ears and lantana that apparently comes
back. *So I need to find out how to find the gardening limit zone for
growing. *Any ideas?

Thank you in advance.

The above will give you a start but it tells you only about cold hardiness.
There is some correlation between that and other conditions, eg a zone that
has a very cold winter is unlikely to have a very hot summer. *But within a
given cold zone there are other climate conditions such as the maximum heat
of the summer and the length of the growing season which can make a
difference. *Also microclimate can make a difference, for example, some of
my neighbours who are up the hill (in the same cold zone) have much less
trouble with frost sensitive plants than I do.

David

thanks David. I went to the site and it said I was roughly in zone
7b. I understand about micro climates and that Mother Nature hits us
wiwth whatever temperatures she decides on, so I take it with a grain
of salt as well. And wonder upon wonders, I was at a Border's
bookstore (not hawking Borders, just happened to be at one) and they
had this incredibly huge book on sale called The American
Horticultural Encyclopedia A-Z that was originally almost $80, and I
got it for $19.95!!??? So I looked inside and apparently it was a
"reissue" of a book that came out previously a few years ago and I've
seen it spoken about as I lurked on this newsgroup, and snapped it
up. There are apparently heat tolerant zones as well, which were
illustrated on the inside back of this incredible book. I am reading
it piece by piece, but it's packed with information. I may go back
and purchase another one while it's reduced and send it to one of my
best friends who also gardens! again, thanks for the website.

[eva shovelful]

On Oct 19, 6:12*am, Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:58:33 -0700 (PDT), eva shovelful

wrote:
Hello,
I am new to this gardening newsgroup and I thought that I would ask a

snip

I have found three black widow spiders in 17 years. *They are common
in this area, scorpions too. *I'm in east TN, zone 7. *Always watch
wear you put your hands and feet. *You can quickly find a zone map
using Google.

that's not too many. But I have found three in less than two weeks.
I lived for awhile in east TN, and never saw scorpions, but that's not
to say they weren't there. And I saw black widow spiders more than
usual before we moved in the early spring. Maybe the damp has
encouraged them to be more prolific? I am now resigned to wear thin
goat garden gloves which are the best I can find for now until I can
do better. I don't like heavy gloves unless I plan on working with
spines and thorns. But I understand there is a good garden glove
company called Woman's Work? I am looking that up later. I am now
into socks and sneakers as the weather has turned seasonal. Sandals
and bare feet are my usual unless I find good thick flip flops, which
are out of fashion. But with this raised bed I am gardening in, and
the new found spider, I have decided to be more weary of them as I
slow down and take more notice of what I am reaching my hands and
fingers into (my husband too). Having lived in TN for awhile, I've
noticed that the zones have warmed up a bit. someone sent me a map
that showed how much the whole country has warmed up lately. and I'm
not talking global warming. I just remember TN being more zone 6 a or
6b. But I am eager to learn about what does well here. The locals all
warned us that it wasn't nearly as hot and humid as it normally is
during the late spring and summer. My poor husband suffered more with
the massive attacks of mosquito's. They adored him. we quickly found
that not deep woods but cutters was the best to lather on him to keep
him from looking like a minor leprosy victim. He loves this weather
now. No "skeeters" ! thanks for the feedback.
eva shovelful

[JRStern]

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:58:33 -0700 (PDT), eva shovelful
wrote:

Is this normal? I mean, I realize
that they are not aggressive, or at least the article about them says
they're not, and yesterday it unsettled me enough that I squashed her
good.

They can be very common, certainly are where I am in Los Angeles, but
they cause minimal problems. They have no interest in you, they can't
eat you while you can squash them on purpose or accidentally. Actual
bites are quite rare and not usually fatal unless you're allergic or
have other serious conditions - you can google for symptoms and
treatment. If I see some of their uneven corner webs I will usually
remove the web, just to encourage them to move on. But other styles
of spiders also make corner webs - we seem to be having an abundance
of long-legged spiders with corner webs this year, which seem to have
longer, less random patterns. But I remove those too, just in case,
even though AFAIK they don't have a hazardous bite for humans.

J.

[Steve Daniels]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:08:18 -0700 (PDT), against all advice,
something compelled eva shovelful , to
say:

Maybe the damp has
encouraged them to be more prolific?



Damp does it for me.






--

Howdya like that... we started playing guitar to impress the chicks and wind
up talkin' fingernails with old men.

Ray Boyce - 9.27.09

[eva shovelful]

On Oct 24, 2:33*pm, JRStern wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:58:33 -0700 (PDT), eva shovelful

wrote:
Is this normal? I mean, I realize
that they are not aggressive, or at least the article about them says
they're not, and yesterday it unsettled me enough that I squashed her
good.

They can be very common, certainly are where I am in Los Angeles, but
they cause minimal problems. *They have no interest in you, they can't
eat you while you can squash them on purpose or accidentally. *Actual
bites are quite rare and not usually fatal unless you're allergic or
have other serious conditions - you can google for symptoms and
treatment. *If I see some of their uneven corner webs I will usually
remove the web, just to encourage them to move on. *But other styles
of spiders also make corner webs - we seem to be having an abundance
of long-legged spiders with corner webs this year, which seem to have
longer, less random patterns. *But I remove those too, just in case,
even though AFAIK they don't have a hazardous bite for humans.

J.

Good point, J. All three times we happened across them, they were in
their "homes" surrounded by their webs, and had I taken the time to
get a really good look, I'd have noticed the irregular corner webs.
Each place we uncovered them (the key phrase here is UNCOVERED) the
first was she was tucked up against the side of the bricks where there
was plenty of food in the form of crickets and other such insects in a
raised bed that was overgrown with crabgrass, the second was dumping
out the five gallon nursery pot that was holding the day lilies and
there she was...... and the third was dumping out a split open three
gallon pot I'd used to toss dug up clumps of iris roots that had sat
undisturbed in one spot for two months. Knowing those places, will
make me more alert. (especially when the deck off the back of the
house is high enough for an adult woman to bend over and rake all the
way up to the house to get the leaves out from underneath it. So
finding another black widow isn't out of the question. that second
one was buried, and unless she died under ground being unable to dig
herself out, she's out there still........time will tell. thanks for
alerting me, though. and I will check out more information regarding
their bites. I know their bite mimics heart attacks, and since I have
a slight touch of asthma, I have to be wary. I don't go around all
overly careful, I just get on with life. great imput though.
eva