On 5/20/2015 2:02 PM, songbird wrote [in part]:


the large CWP uses huge pumps to move water from the
north to the south which also uses a lot of electricity
(some which they regain on the other side from generation
but the cost is still high). this is only a small fraction
of the water used in CA for irrigation.

to move a much larger portion of the Columbia would need
many more pipelines than one. that's not a minor expense
for pumping, materials to build it, maintenance, etc.

The California State Water Project is possibly the largest customer for
electricity in the state.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 11:42:19 PM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:
On 5/18/2015 6:00 PM, songbird wrote [in part]:
as for your rant, i suspect they stagger watering days to keep the
load on the overall system more balanced.

No. Everyone in the community now irrigates on Mondays and Thursdays.

Thousand Oaks (a neighboring city) proposed specific days for irrigating
gardens, with odd addresses on certain days and even addresses on other
days. The Public Works staff, however, pointed out that if everyone ran
their sprinklers on their permitted days before 9:00am (beyond that time
irrigating was already prohibited), there would not be enough pressure
in the mains during those times to support fire-fighting. In some parts
of Los Angeles, having alternating days for irrigating gardens resulted
in aged mains rupturing, wasting thousands or even millions of gallons
of water.

Note what David said about "aging mains". Some of the municipal "plumbing" is 100 years old or more. Disaster waiting to happen.

HB

By the way, see my "Gardening During a Drought" at
http://www.rossde.com/garden/drought.html.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

David E. Ross wrote:
songbird wrote:
I previously wrote [also in part]:

By the way, see my "Gardening During a Drought" at
http://www.rossde.com/garden/drought.html.

i did. while most of it i agree with you don't say much
about rainwater capture/storage, landscaping to retain water
(slow, spread, soak) and wind breaks aren't really mentioned
either.

When we do get rain, more then 2/3 falls in December, January, and
February; often, that is more than 3/4. A cistern large enough to
supply water from March through November is quite out of the question.

i wasn't meaning about your site in particular, but
when speaking of arid climates there should be mentions
that those sorts of things can help a great deal. many
people have roofs and the downspouts go right into the
drains, they have no features in their lawns to capture,
slow, spread and soak rains, they have no mulch layers,
they don't consider the wind and how it can dry out
areas when it isn't blocked, etc.

as for roof capture of rain and getting through an
entire season, that is good, but even if that is too
big a consideration, even a few hundred gallons every
time it rains would make a dent in the water bill for
a few months and take some of the damand off the central
water supply. an entire city setup with a few hundred
gallons for each household would take a lot of storm water
that they used to have to treat and use it instead to
irrigate and help recharge the groundwater (which many
cities are now drawing on via wells to supplement their
other water supplies).


My landscape does indeed retain rain. Last week, we had 0.34 inches,
which is a lot for the entire month of May. I have not run my
sprinklers since last Wednesday and will not run them tomorrow. (The
Monday and Thursday only schedule does not go into effect until 1 June.)

that's good and of course it all helps.


where you mention mulch it is to say enough to cover the
soil which is better than nothing, but beyond that a deeper
mulch can be much better, especially if you have drip
irrigation below it.

I try to maintain several inches of leaf mulch where there is no ground
cover. Although I place twigs and small branches on top, the wind often
reduces the thickness of the mulch. My valley white oak cannot survive
without a thick mulch of leaves; I applied the mulch and then anchored
chicken wire on top. This will require quite some effort to renew the
mulch as it becomes compost.

one of the nice things about an arid climate is that mulch
lasts much longer. around here wood chips are good for a few
years - well rotted wood chips turn clay into pretty good
garden soil.


songbird

David E. Ross wrote:
songbird wrote [in part]:


the large CWP uses huge pumps to move water from the
north to the south which also uses a lot of electricity
(some which they regain on the other side from generation
but the cost is still high). this is only a small fraction
of the water used in CA for irrigation.

to move a much larger portion of the Columbia would need
many more pipelines than one. that's not a minor expense
for pumping, materials to build it, maintenance, etc.

The California State Water Project is possibly the largest customer for
electricity in the state.

i'd believe it because i've come across some of the
numbers in recent readings.

with the drought it is lowering the ability of the state
to generate hydroelectric power and you folks are lucky
that the state mandate for solar and wind has increased
those supplies as that has helped a great deal, but also
it is causing more natural gas burning.

somewhat related:

as i'd recently been reading up on Owens River/Lake/valley
i was interested to come across this in the news:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...514-story.html

for something that had been running since 1913 to be shut
off until November gives an idea of how deep this drought
has become.

recent rains/snows in Colorado have upped some of the
percentages for runoff so we hope this continued gift
from El Nino keeps on rolling...


songbird

thanks to a huge amount of new rainfall in the
upper Colorado River Basin and recent rains in
southern California (Delores) you folks are
getting a little more breathing room.

i hope you use it wisely...


songbird

On 7/19/2015 9:32 AM, songbird wrote:
thanks to a huge amount of new rainfall in the
upper Colorado River Basin and recent rains in
southern California (Delores) you folks are
getting a little more breathing room.

i hope you use it wisely...


songbird


Yesterday's rains (1.26 inches near my house) will do little to refill
California's reservoirs. The primary source of water for the reservoirs
is precipitation in central and -- most important -- northern
California. Some cities in southern California -- including Los Angeles
-- do attempt to capture rainfall and use it to replenish underground
aquifers. And, of course, we all will be using less water for a while
to irrigate our gardens.

Where I live, we do not get any water from the Colorado River. A slight
increase in its flow from storms in the northern part of its watershed
will mean a slightly less demand for water from the California Water
Project's dams and aqueduct.

Thus, we are getting some minor relief. At this stage of the drought,
even minor relief is welcome.

Today, I have not seen any rain. The weather is hot, cloudy, and
extremely humid. The 9:00am PDT forecast is for 50%-60% probability of
measurable rain this afternoon, this evening, and daytime Monday.
"50%-60% probability" means that 50%-60% of the area will experience
some rain, not that all areas have a 50%-60% probability of rain.

As of 30 June, 12 major California reservoirs were collectively at 37%
of capacity. That is less than half the historical average for that date.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

David E. Ross wrote:
songbird wrote:

thanks to a huge amount of new rainfall in the
upper Colorado River Basin and recent rains in
southern California (Delores) you folks are
getting a little more breathing room.

i hope you use it wisely...

Yesterday's rains (1.26 inches near my house) will do little to refill
California's reservoirs. The primary source of water for the reservoirs
is precipitation in central and -- most important -- northern
California. Some cities in southern California -- including Los Angeles
-- do attempt to capture rainfall and use it to replenish underground
aquifers. And, of course, we all will be using less water for a while
to irrigate our gardens.

yes, however, my post was aiming more at the difference a
few million acre feet of water will make over the next few
years that as of a few months ago were not there. it was
looking like they may have had to declare a shortage for
Lake Mead water levels and that affects both Arizona and
southern California water supplies above and beyond what is
already lacking from the reserviors.


Where I live, we do not get any water from the Colorado River. A slight
increase in its flow from storms in the northern part of its watershed
will mean a slightly less demand for water from the California Water
Project's dams and aqueduct.

this is a more structural and legal and or treaty difference
than "slightly less demand" implies. however it is also
important in other ways as it impacts how much electricity can
be generated (they are currently upgrading the turbines at
Hoover Dam to be able to generate electricity efficiently at
lower water levels, but this is underway and not done yet).


Thus, we are getting some minor relief. At this stage of the drought,
even minor relief is welcome.

oh for sure, and any little bit that can go towards
groundwater recharge... however a large fraction is
likely to be lost due to evaporation, but that might
end up further to the east in the mountain ranges as
rain or fog/mist/dew. at this point any single drop
is better than none.


Today, I have not seen any rain. The weather is hot, cloudy, and
extremely humid. The 9:00am PDT forecast is for 50%-60% probability of
measurable rain this afternoon, this evening, and daytime Monday.
"50%-60% probability" means that 50%-60% of the area will experience
some rain, not that all areas have a 50%-60% probability of rain.

the radar is currently showing a nice pattern for the
area to get more actual rain on the ground, i hope the
rains can hold together long enough to actually get the
ground soaked in places enough to give the trees and
rivers a bit of a recharge.


As of 30 June, 12 major California reservoirs were collectively at 37%
of capacity. That is less than half the historical average for that date.

and as they get emptier the problems get tougher (water
quality gets poorer as they get warmer, with algae problems
and pumping and treatment costs rise, hydroelectric generation
reductions, etc.). also the losses in forest cover in the
north will make things even worse as you lose your sponge
and soaking zones, but you also lose your trace moisture
capture capabilities (forest can trap, condense and soak up
mists/fogs).


songbird

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 5:10:55 PM UTC-7, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
songbird wrote:

thanks to a huge amount of new rainfall in the
upper Colorado River Basin and recent rains in
southern California (Delores) you folks are
getting a little more breathing room.

i hope you use it wisely...

[...]

You can have 100% confidence in our decision-making process.

The one thing we (or our "lawmakers") will not tolerate is any interference with
the golf courses dotting the landscape East of Palm Springs.

http://www.motherjones.com/environme...e-powered-poop

800,000 gallons a day for the average golf course!

And let's not get into the water-hogging, highly reumunerative almond and cotton
crops grown by agribusiness in the totally unsuitable Central Valley.

Some growers are more equal than others...

HB

On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 7:44:31 PM UTC-7, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 11:42:19 PM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:
On 5/18/2015 6:00 PM, songbird wrote [in part]:
as for your rant, i suspect they stagger watering days to keep the
load on the overall system more balanced.

No. Everyone in the community now irrigates on Mondays and Thursdays.

Thousand Oaks (a neighboring city) proposed specific days for irrigating
gardens, with odd addresses on certain days and even addresses on other
days. The Public Works staff, however, pointed out that if everyone ran
their sprinklers on their permitted days before 9:00am (beyond that time
irrigating was already prohibited), there would not be enough pressure
in the mains during those times to support fire-fighting. In some parts
of Los Angeles, having alternating days for irrigating gardens resulted
in aged mains rupturing, wasting thousands or even millions of gallons
of water.

Note what David said about "aging mains". Some of the municipal "plumbing" is 100 years old or more. Disaster waiting to happen.

HB

Update: Disasters ARE happening. Every few days we get news that another ancient main has broken with resultant damage to houses, people displaced, traffic disrupted. Wonder who pays the bill for public safety personnel and replacement of infrastructure. MWD (Metropolitan Water District) has had a lot of nasty reports about management.

HB

By the way, see my "Gardening During a Drought" at
http://www.rossde.com/garden/drought.html.

On 7/26/2015 3:07 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:

Update: Disasters ARE happening. Every few days we get news that
another ancient main has broken with resultant damage to houses,
people displaced, traffic disrupted. Wonder who pays the bill for
public safety personnel and replacement of infrastructure. MWD
(Metropolitan Water District) has had a lot of nasty reports about
management.


The mains that have been breaking -- and wasting millions of gallons of
precious water -- are under the jurisdiction of the Los Angeles
Department of Water and Power (LA DWP), not the MWD. And it is the LA
DWP that has come under severe criticism in recent years for (among
other things) a botched roll-out of a new computer billing system,
payments to foundations controlled by the primary LA DWP labor union
without any accountability of how the money has been spent, and millions
of dollars transferred annual to the Los Angeles City budget but not
having enough money to replace centry-old water mains.

It is the LA DWP that reimburses businesses and home-owners for damaged
caused when a LA DWP main breaks. The LA DWP will soon be paying
several millions of dollars to UCLA for damage to campus buildings and
equipment for a double break. The same break resulted in destruction of
a number of private automobiles parked in an underground garage at UCLA,
andother liability against the LA DWP.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 4:15:54 PM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/26/2015 3:07 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:

Update: Disasters ARE happening. Every few days we get news that
another ancient main has broken with resultant damage to houses,
people displaced, traffic disrupted. Wonder who pays the bill for
public safety personnel and replacement of infrastructure. MWD
(Metropolitan Water District) has had a lot of nasty reports about
management.


The mains that have been breaking -- and wasting millions of gallons of
precious water -- are under the jurisdiction of the Los Angeles
Department of Water and Power (LA DWP), not the MWD. And it is the LA
DWP that has come under severe criticism in recent years for (among
other things) a botched roll-out of a new computer billing system,
payments to foundations controlled by the primary LA DWP labor union
without any accountability of how the money has been spent, and millions
of dollars transferred annual to the Los Angeles City budget but not
having enough money to replace centry-old water mains.

It is the LA DWP that reimburses businesses and home-owners for damaged
caused when a LA DWP main breaks. The LA DWP will soon be paying
several millions of dollars to UCLA for damage to campus buildings and
equipment for a double break. The same break resulted in destruction of
a number of private automobiles parked in an underground garage at UCLA,
andother liability against the LA DWP.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

You are correct. I apologize to MWD for indicting them for the
mis/mal/non-feasance committed by DWP. They have been "untouchable" for far too long. We are still hearing/reading fallout from the incidents you cite, and many others.

HB