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Old 18-05-2015, 05:22 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

As of 1 May, the state-wide snowpack water content was only 3% of the
average for that date. As the rain and snow season ends, the 12 most
significant reservoirs were at 45% of capacity. The average for that
date is 77%. Note that the averages include prior drought years, not
only for the current drought but also for other droughts.

Oregon and Washington also declared various drought emergencies.

rant
My local water agency imposed new restrictions on the use of water to
irrigate my garden. Micromanaging my water use, the agency not only
decreed that I can run my sprinklers only twice a week but also on which
days -- Mondays, and Thursdays. Normally, I work in my garden on
Thursdays; but now the ground will be too wet. I will have to change to
Wednesdays. Will they next come into my house a time how long I shower?

In the meantime across California, land developers are still getting new
water connections. While existing residents and businesses are facing
rationing, developers are creating demands for even more water -- water
that does not exist -- for homes, factories, offices, restaurants, etc.
Also, rice and cotton -- both very thirsty crops -- are still being
planted.
/rant

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary
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Old 18-05-2015, 06:14 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

"David E. Ross" writes:

As of 1 May, the state-wide snowpack water content was only 3% of the
average for that date. As the rain and snow season ends, the 12 most
significant reservoirs were at 45% of capacity. The average for that
date is 77%. Note that the averages include prior drought years, not
only for the current drought but also for other droughts.

Oregon and Washington also declared various drought emergencies.

rant
My local water agency imposed new restrictions on the use of water to
irrigate my garden. Micromanaging my water use, the agency not only
decreed that I can run my sprinklers only twice a week but also on which
days -- Mondays, and Thursdays. Normally, I work in my garden on
Thursdays; but now the ground will be too wet. I will have to change to
Wednesdays. Will they next come into my house a time how long I shower?

In the meantime across California, land developers are still getting new
water connections. While existing residents and businesses are facing
rationing, developers are creating demands for even more water -- water
that does not exist -- for homes, factories, offices, restaurants, etc.
Also, rice and cotton -- both very thirsty crops -- are still being
planted.
/rant


I understand Calif is getting closer to drinking some of that
recycled waste water.

I'm for thinking bigger. We need Calif agriculture to feed us and the
country. A mega project to build a pipeline to the Columbia River
is a solution for the longer term.

As for the crude attempts to slow down water consumption,
what do you expect? Without increasing supply none of "solutions"
are going to work.

Don't expect any politician to endorse slowing or reversing growth.

--
Dan Espen
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Old 18-05-2015, 08:32 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

On 5/18/2015 11:22 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
As of 1 May, the state-wide snowpack water content was only 3% of the
average for that date. As the rain and snow season ends, the 12 most
significant reservoirs were at 45% of capacity. The average for that
date is 77%. Note that the averages include prior drought years, not
only for the current drought but also for other droughts.

Oregon and Washington also declared various drought emergencies.

rant
My local water agency imposed new restrictions on the use of water to
irrigate my garden. Micromanaging my water use, the agency not only
decreed that I can run my sprinklers only twice a week but also on which
days -- Mondays, and Thursdays. Normally, I work in my garden on
Thursdays; but now the ground will be too wet. I will have to change to
Wednesdays. Will they next come into my house a time how long I shower?


My sympathy for drought hardships, but changing the day you work in your
garden? I hope that is the worst that befalls you ) Watering
restrictions (hours, days, no run-off) have been in force in Florida for
years. Clearwater installed an extensive reclaimed water system for
watering lawns years ago. Some areas around Tamps bay also ban sale of
fertilizer during certain months due to run-off polluting Tampa Bay.
There are too many folks who follow the "if a little is good, then a lot
is great" in fertilizer, herbicide, insecticide use; very sad.


In the meantime across California, land developers are still getting new
water connections. While existing residents and businesses are facing
rationing, developers are creating demands for even more water -- water
that does not exist -- for homes, factories, offices, restaurants, etc.
Also, rice and cotton -- both very thirsty crops -- are still being
planted.
/rant


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Old 19-05-2015, 03:00 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

David E. Ross wrote:

As of 1 May, the state-wide snowpack water content was only 3% of the
average for that date. As the rain and snow season ends, the 12 most
significant reservoirs were at 45% of capacity. The average for that
date is 77%. Note that the averages include prior drought years, not
only for the current drought but also for other droughts.


i didn't even think they bothered to measure it as
there was so little to measure?

but, yep, the snow pack situation is not good for
CA this snow melt season.

there has been a few rains recently and it looks
like more will be possibly coming soon, but until
it happens i sure wouldn't count on it.

this is the link i check (later in the day after things get
more updated):

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/reservoirs/RES

by far it isn't the whole story as there is much
ground water being pumped and some sewage now being
recycled and the water reused. desal is not really
an answer as it is very expensive compared to what
could be done instead with more storm water capture
more recycling and more adjustments to rivers and
ground water recharge basins.


Oregon and Washington also declared various drought emergencies.

rant
My local water agency imposed new restrictions on the use of water to
irrigate my garden. Micromanaging my water use, the agency not only
decreed that I can run my sprinklers only twice a week but also on which
days -- Mondays, and Thursdays. Normally, I work in my garden on
Thursdays; but now the ground will be too wet. I will have to change to
Wednesdays. Will they next come into my house a time how long I shower?

In the meantime across California, land developers are still getting new
water connections. While existing residents and businesses are facing
rationing, developers are creating demands for even more water -- water
that does not exist -- for homes, factories, offices, restaurants, etc.
Also, rice and cotton -- both very thirsty crops -- are still being
planted.
/rant


there is so much more recycling and rain water capture/storage and
reuse that can be done that the real shame in all of this is that the
amount of water that is being cleaned up and then dumped into the
sea that instead could be used for groundwater recharge and many other
purposes. California has plenty of water, it's just that up to now
it's been cheap enough to dump instead of figure out how to reuse
and it's been easier to direct rain/rivers to flow through the cities
instead of slowing and soaking in some of that instead.

right now the el nino is getting stronger and perhaps it will help
this last bit of spring for some moisture, but they are also hoping
it will help drive a wetter than normal year. we can hope so for
the sake of CA and the other Colorado River basin states.

as i've been watching the radars lately it seems that there is
a fair bit of rain and storms happening, but they are still not
dropping a large enough amount of snow or rain into the CR basin
or in northern CA. if we could have a few good storms in either
of those places that would help a lot...

Lake Powell and Lake Mead are at interesting levels and forecast
to still keep dropping. that means some interesting times possibly
this year or next for Arizona as their water gets reduced and a
slight reduction for Vegas, but Vegas has done a lot to recycle and
reuse (they pump treated water back to Lake Mead so they can draw
more water out, but they also require any places built to have a
plan for recycling and reusing water and reducing water, so they're
not quite as thirsty down there as compared to what they used to be).
still they are finishing up their emergency intake from Lake Mead
(that will work even if Lake Mead turns back into the CR again).

as for your rant, i suspect they stagger watering days to keep the
load on the overall system more balanced.

in any arid climate, rain water harvesting, deep mulching, wind
breaks, swales, etc are all very important elements if you're going
to try to grow vegetables or fruits on plants that aren't acclimated
to the climate.

it's been pretty dry here lately too, with perhaps an inch of rain
the past few weeks. as usual the storms go north and south of us
or break up due to the valley effect. i've had to water lightly a
few of the seeded areas i put in and the ditch out back is down
quite a bit from where you'd normally expect it to be this time of
the year. it's just how it goes here sometimes. the well is holding
up ok, we're down pretty deep and in the middle of the groundwater
flow too, so not too likely to dry up, i also try not to use it too
much as rainwater is much more preferable...


songbird
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Old 19-05-2015, 03:13 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

Dan Espen wrote:
....
I understand Calif is getting closer to drinking some of that
recycled waste water.


already does in some places, they pump it back through a
wetland or put it back underground and then pump it back up
and run it through a treatment plant again. these are now
getting more and more common and people stop objecting
because that's pretty similar to what people in the rest
of the country also do (they drink treated water that comes
from rivers that have other cities upstream).


I'm for thinking bigger. We need Calif agriculture to feed us and the
country. A mega project to build a pipeline to the Columbia River
is a solution for the longer term.


peanuts compared to what they could accomplish if
they just stopped dumping all their treated water
and storm run off into the oceans and recycled more
water. they'd be just fine. it's just that it's
been so cheap now to just dump it that is what they've
set up to do. this is changing...


As for the crude attempts to slow down water consumption,
what do you expect? Without increasing supply none of "solutions"
are going to work.

Don't expect any politician to endorse slowing or reversing growth.


there's plenty of places that won't develop any more
as there is no water and they've so poorly managed
their wells that the groundwater is gone now too.
CA is a good example of how to be environmental on
the surface but their overall system is not integrated
or designed for arid spells longer than a few years
instead it was designed to exploit cheap water and it's
done that for 90 years.

if there continue to be low snowpacks for the Sierras
and Colorado Rockies then things will get pretty
interesting for Arizona and LV but we may not hit those
too hard for a few years yet if we're lucky (hope the
el nino gives a break this late spring and next winter).


songbird


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Old 19-05-2015, 08:31 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

On 5/18/2015 11:32 AM, Norminn wrote [in part]:
My sympathy for drought hardships, but changing the day you work in your
garden? I hope that is the worst that befalls you ) Watering
restrictions (hours, days, no run-off) have been in force in Florida for
years. Clearwater installed an extensive reclaimed water system for
watering lawns years ago. Some areas around Tamps bay also ban sale of
fertilizer during certain months due to run-off polluting Tampa Bay.
There are too many folks who follow the "if a little is good, then a lot
is great" in fertilizer, herbicide, insecticide use; very sad.


The problem is not what day I work in my garden. It is the
micromanaging of my use of water.

Originally, they decreed that I could irrigate only Mondays, Wednesdays,
and Fridays. In a three-week period, that was nine days. Until that
decree, I chose to irrigate every third day. In three weeks, that would
be Monday, Thursday, Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday, Tuesday, Friday, and
(in the fourth week) Monday again. That would be only seven days. That
is correct, their decree meant I could actually irrigate two extra days
in a three-week period. I applied for a waiver to continue using less
water. They rejected my request because it would make monitoring
irrigation across the community too complicated.

We are already irrigating parks, school playfields, golf courses,
landscaped street medians, and other large scale areas with reclaimed
water. Individual gardens are not included because amateurs such as me
might accidentally cross-connect reclaimed water lines with potable
water lines.

I generally feed my garden only once a year, in the spring. Fertilizer
promotes plant growth that requires additional water. With water bills
exceeding the sum of all other utility costs -- electricity, natural
gas, and phone -- before restrictions went into force, I could not
afford to have my garden develop excess foliage. Even with a 19%
reduction in water use compared with two years ago, my water bills are
still close to the sum of the other utilities.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary
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Old 19-05-2015, 08:42 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

On 5/18/2015 6:00 PM, songbird wrote [in part]:
as for your rant, i suspect they stagger watering days to keep the
load on the overall system more balanced.


No. Everyone in the community now irrigates on Mondays and Thursdays.

Thousand Oaks (a neighboring city) proposed specific days for irrigating
gardens, with odd addresses on certain days and even addresses on other
days. The Public Works staff, however, pointed out that if everyone ran
their sprinklers on their permitted days before 9:00am (beyond that time
irrigating was already prohibited), there would not be enough pressure
in the mains during those times to support fire-fighting. In some parts
of Los Angeles, having alternating days for irrigating gardens resulted
in aged mains rupturing, wasting thousands or even millions of gallons
of water.

By the way, see my "Gardening During a Drought" at
http://www.rossde.com/garden/drought.html.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary
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Old 19-05-2015, 01:46 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

David E. Ross wrote:
On 5/18/2015 6:00 PM, songbird wrote [in part]:
as for your rant, i suspect they stagger watering days to keep the
load on the overall system more balanced.


No. Everyone in the community now irrigates on Mondays and Thursdays.


i read your other post, so while it may not make sense
in some ways it does make sense for the enforcement
aspect. consider in the age of the cellphone that
takes pictures. if the city had to deal with every
nosy neighbor sending in pictures of the "deviants"
then it would be more work to deal with those complaints
(correcting them).


Thousand Oaks (a neighboring city) proposed specific days for irrigating
gardens, with odd addresses on certain days and even addresses on other
days. The Public Works staff, however, pointed out that if everyone ran
their sprinklers on their permitted days before 9:00am (beyond that time
irrigating was already prohibited), there would not be enough pressure
in the mains during those times to support fire-fighting. In some parts
of Los Angeles, having alternating days for irrigating gardens resulted
in aged mains rupturing, wasting thousands or even millions of gallons
of water.

By the way, see my "Gardening During a Drought" at
http://www.rossde.com/garden/drought.html.


i did. while most of it i agree with you don't say much
about rainwater capture/storage, landscaping to retain water
(slow, spread, soak) and wind breaks aren't really mentioned
either.

where you mention mulch it is to say enough to cover the
soil which is better than nothing, but beyond that a deeper
mulch can be much better, especially if you have drip
irrigation below it.


songbird
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Old 19-05-2015, 04:04 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

songbird writes:

Dan Espen wrote:
...
I understand Calif is getting closer to drinking some of that
recycled waste water.


already does in some places, they pump it back through a
wetland or put it back underground and then pump it back up
and run it through a treatment plant again. these are now
getting more and more common and people stop objecting
because that's pretty similar to what people in the rest
of the country also do (they drink treated water that comes
from rivers that have other cities upstream).


I don't think there is anywhere they go directly from sewage treatment
to back into water supply. They do have plants that apply
sufficient treatment.

Last I heard San Diego was getting close to giving it a try.

I'm for thinking bigger. We need Calif agriculture to feed us and the
country. A mega project to build a pipeline to the Columbia River
is a solution for the longer term.


peanuts compared to what they could accomplish if
they just stopped dumping all their treated water
and storm run off into the oceans and recycled more
water. they'd be just fine. it's just that it's
been so cheap now to just dump it that is what they've
set up to do. this is changing...


I've never seen the Columbia in person, but from the
maps and pictures, I don't see how "peanuts" applies.

--
Dan Espen
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Old 19-05-2015, 04:59 PM posted to rec.gardens
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On 5/19/2015 7:04 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
songbird writes:

Dan Espen wrote:
...
I understand Calif is getting closer to drinking some of that
recycled waste water.


already does in some places, they pump it back through a
wetland or put it back underground and then pump it back up
and run it through a treatment plant again. these are now
getting more and more common and people stop objecting
because that's pretty similar to what people in the rest
of the country also do (they drink treated water that comes
from rivers that have other cities upstream).


I don't think there is anywhere they go directly from sewage treatment
to back into water supply. They do have plants that apply
sufficient treatment.

Last I heard San Diego was getting close to giving it a try.

I'm for thinking bigger. We need Calif agriculture to feed us and the
country. A mega project to build a pipeline to the Columbia River
is a solution for the longer term.


peanuts compared to what they could accomplish if
they just stopped dumping all their treated water
and storm run off into the oceans and recycled more
water. they'd be just fine. it's just that it's
been so cheap now to just dump it that is what they've
set up to do. this is changing...


I've never seen the Columbia in person, but from the
maps and pictures, I don't see how "peanuts" applies.


The Columbia River flows through Washington and Oregon. Both states
have declared drought emergencies in some form.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary


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Old 19-05-2015, 05:10 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

On 5/19/2015 4:46 AM, songbird wrote [in part]:
I previously wrote [also in part]:

By the way, see my "Gardening During a Drought" at
http://www.rossde.com/garden/drought.html.


i did. while most of it i agree with you don't say much
about rainwater capture/storage, landscaping to retain water
(slow, spread, soak) and wind breaks aren't really mentioned
either.


When we do get rain, more then 2/3 falls in December, January, and
February; often, that is more than 3/4. A cistern large enough to
supply water from March through November is quite out of the question.

My landscape does indeed retain rain. Last week, we had 0.34 inches,
which is a lot for the entire month of May. I have not run my
sprinklers since last Wednesday and will not run them tomorrow. (The
Monday and Thursday only schedule does not go into effect until 1 June.)

where you mention mulch it is to say enough to cover the
soil which is better than nothing, but beyond that a deeper
mulch can be much better, especially if you have drip
irrigation below it.


I try to maintain several inches of leaf mulch where there is no ground
cover. Although I place twigs and small branches on top, the wind often
reduces the thickness of the mulch. My valley white oak cannot survive
without a thick mulch of leaves; I applied the mulch and then anchored
chicken wire on top. This will require quite some effort to renew the
mulch as it becomes compost.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary
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Old 19-05-2015, 05:40 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

"David E. Ross" writes:

On 5/19/2015 7:04 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
songbird writes:

Dan Espen wrote:
...
I understand Calif is getting closer to drinking some of that
recycled waste water.

already does in some places, they pump it back through a
wetland or put it back underground and then pump it back up
and run it through a treatment plant again. these are now
getting more and more common and people stop objecting
because that's pretty similar to what people in the rest
of the country also do (they drink treated water that comes
from rivers that have other cities upstream).


I don't think there is anywhere they go directly from sewage treatment
to back into water supply. They do have plants that apply
sufficient treatment.

Last I heard San Diego was getting close to giving it a try.

I'm for thinking bigger. We need Calif agriculture to feed us and the
country. A mega project to build a pipeline to the Columbia River
is a solution for the longer term.

peanuts compared to what they could accomplish if
they just stopped dumping all their treated water
and storm run off into the oceans and recycled more
water. they'd be just fine. it's just that it's
been so cheap now to just dump it that is what they've
set up to do. this is changing...


I've never seen the Columbia in person, but from the
maps and pictures, I don't see how "peanuts" applies.


The Columbia River flows through Washington and Oregon. Both states
have declared drought emergencies in some form.


Yes, I heard that this AM so I knew that before posting.

I just checked what I "assumed". The drainage basin of the Columbia
includes 7 states and a Canadian province.

Lets hope we don't have to tap the Yukon.

--
Dan Espen
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Old 20-05-2015, 02:58 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

On 5/19/2015 10:10 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

I try to maintain several inches of leaf mulch where there is no ground
cover. Although I place twigs and small branches on top, the wind often
reduces the thickness of the mulch. My valley white oak cannot survive
without a thick mulch of leaves; I applied the mulch and then anchored
chicken wire on top. This will require quite some effort to renew the
mulch as it becomes compost.


I've used bird netting to anchor mulch for that very reason: when it's
time to remove it to add more mulch, it's just a matter of lifting off
the anchoring rocks and bricks, after which the netting handles
easily. Plus, the black color is very inconspicuous.

Even in the land of 10,000+ lakes, many cities routinely have watering
restrictions, mainly due to our over-preoccupation with having thick,
green, weed-free lawns.
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Old 20-05-2015, 06:46 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

On Wed, 20 May 2015 07:58:23 -0500, Moe DeLoughan
wrote:

On 5/19/2015 10:10 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

I try to maintain several inches of leaf mulch where there is no ground
cover. Although I place twigs and small branches on top, the wind often
reduces the thickness of the mulch. My valley white oak cannot survive
without a thick mulch of leaves; I applied the mulch and then anchored
chicken wire on top. This will require quite some effort to renew the
mulch as it becomes compost.


I've used bird netting to anchor mulch for that very reason: when it's
time to remove it to add more mulch, it's just a matter of lifting off
the anchoring rocks and bricks, after which the netting handles
easily. Plus, the black color is very inconspicuous.

Even in the land of 10,000+ lakes, many cities routinely have watering
restrictions, mainly due to our over-preoccupation with having thick,
green, weed-free lawns.


Plastic deer fencing works well, inexpensive, and easy to roll/unroll
so easy to apply/remove/store.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_53046-13113-...deer+ fencing
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Old 20-05-2015, 11:02 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Default California Drought

Dan Espen wrote:
songbird writes:
Dan Espen wrote:
...
I understand Calif is getting closer to drinking some of that
recycled waste water.


already does in some places, they pump it back through a
wetland or put it back underground and then pump it back up
and run it through a treatment plant again. these are now
getting more and more common and people stop objecting
because that's pretty similar to what people in the rest
of the country also do (they drink treated water that comes
from rivers that have other cities upstream).


I don't think there is anywhere they go directly from sewage treatment
to back into water supply. They do have plants that apply
sufficient treatment.

Last I heard San Diego was getting close to giving it a try.


i'm reading too many project descriptions and statuses
to keep them all straight, but seems i recall a pilot
project there which is not yet feeding water to the
mains, but it could be and if the drought persists it may
get switched over. another near SF comes to mind too but
i'm not sure that is online yet or just starting the next
stage, but it's coming.


I'm for thinking bigger. We need Calif agriculture to feed us and the
country. A mega project to build a pipeline to the Columbia River
is a solution for the longer term.


peanuts compared to what they could accomplish if
they just stopped dumping all their treated water
and storm run off into the oceans and recycled more
water. they'd be just fine. it's just that it's
been so cheap now to just dump it that is what they've
set up to do. this is changing...


I've never seen the Columbia in person, but from the
maps and pictures, I don't see how "peanuts" applies.


peanuts is what you can move via pipeline from there
to California as compared to what you could do for the
same money spent on projects that reuse existing sources.

the large CWP uses huge pumps to move water from the
north to the south which also uses a lot of electricity
(some which they regain on the other side from generation
but the cost is still high). this is only a small fraction
of the water used in CA for irrigation.

to move a much larger portion of the Columbia would need
many more pipelines than one. that's not a minor expense
for pumping, materials to build it, maintenance, etc.


songbird
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dog-gone another drought, only this is a Spring time drought [email protected] Plant Science 5 06-06-2006 07:27 PM


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