On 4/15/2016 11:49 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
songbird wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
songbird wrote:

worms are actually not good for them because they eat the
leaves and thus they lose their protection.

What kind of worms eat leaves? Do you mean caterpillars?

any of the composting worms (red wrigglers, belgian night
crawlers, night crawlers, etc.) will break down leaves. many
northern forests are not home to worms unless they are brought
in by fisherfolks or some other means.

Earthworms don't eat leaves, certainly not living plant leaves.
Earthworms eat and subsist on the microbes that compost leaves and
other organic matter. Earthworms injest the microbe laden soil and
compost, digest the microbes and eject the soil and compost as
castings... earthworms do no composting of leaves. Earthworms
congregate near fallen leaves because the leaves attract microbes, but
they do not eat the leaves. Earthworms exist very well in northern
forests, they burrow down below the frost line, same as they burrow
deep on hot summer days. Earthworms exist most everywhere on the
planet except near the North Pole where the soil doesn't thaw. There
are worms that live in the ground beneath bodies of water that do the
same. I don't know why so many believe that earthworms compost
organic matter, they do not, I suppose they can't make the leap that
organic matter attracts microbes... that's why fisherman sprinkle
cereal on the ground in the late afternoon and cover it with cardboard
to attract nightcrawlers. Microbes multiply rapidly and are attracted
to cereal, in turn the microbes attract nightcrawlers. Just before
dawn the fisherman go out with flashlights, lift the cardboard and
quickly harvest plenty of live bait for a day's fishing. The
nightcrawlers are not eating the cereal, they are injesting the
proximal soil that's loaded with microbes that are attracted to the
cereal.


Sheldon, you're full of shit as usual. The common earthworm is not
native to the US, it was introduced by settlers. Researchers have
found that it degrades the forest ground cover by rapidly decomposing
the leaf mulch. As a result, there is an effort to protect the (few)
forested regions in NA that are not infested with earthworms by
reminding people not to introduce them.

Mulch is good. Compost is good. Earthworms are a major factor in the
rapid decomposition of both. It should be obvious that earthworms are
not environmentally beneficial, contrary to popular misconception.
Imagine the advantages of soils where organic matter has a chance to
persist and only slowly decompose over several seasons, instead of
several months. Think how much richer and more productive such soils
would be - and how much less labor we'd have if we only had to amend
our soils occasionally, instead of frequently.

Moe DeLoughan wrote:
....
Mulch is good. Compost is good. Earthworms are a major factor in the
rapid decomposition of both. It should be obvious that earthworms are
not environmentally beneficial, contrary to popular misconception.
Imagine the advantages of soils where organic matter has a chance to
persist and only slowly decompose over several seasons, instead of
several months. Think how much richer and more productive such soils
would be - and how much less labor we'd have if we only had to amend
our soils occasionally, instead of frequently.

it depends upon what you are growing as to how much
nutrient demand there is.

for a forested woodland in a place that gets enough
moisture, if you are producing fruits/nuts then it is
great to be able to hold moisture and only have to add
some top mulches to keep things going.

if you are producing veggies, some of the heavier
feeders do much better with amended soils.

no till is by far the best method (and in a rotational
planting it is possible in three of four years to grow
without amending much at all) but if you are starting
with poor soil, deficient in nutrients and organic matter
then worms will help you out.

worms are now pretty common in all tilled fields in
this area. the neighboring woodlands may not have
them at all (i've not even looked).

the more general thing to evaluate with any agricultural
system is your base soil forming capacity. how are your
various minerals and nutrients getting there? for many
gardens worms play a critical role in that they grind
soil particles together and also add nutrients from their
own wastes. you don't get that without them as easily.
lichens only dissolve rocks and release minerals for
plant availability in areas where they grow, the same
with the freeze/thaw cycles and erosion from rains. for
N there is some deposition from the air along with some
dust from other regions. sulfur used to come via the
rains too, but with improved air quality and less coal
burning that has decreased. etc.

earthworms and composting worms play their parts. many
animals eat them. i'd not eradicate them (any more than
i would eradicate mosquitoes or flies). i think it's
stupid to remove creatures that play a very important
role in improving the soil. they make channels for plant
roots here in this heavy soil and they certainly play a
key role in how we use and recycle plant materials.


songbird