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  #16  
Old 12-07-2016, 01:05 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 1,342
Default weed control

Don Wiss wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote:

I try not to harm thistle, the original velcro, I think it's a
beautiful plant with gorgeous flowers... also its roots grow very deep
and aerate the soil.


Are you sure what you have is Canada thistle? Like this?
https://www.btny.purdue.edu/Pubs/WS/...daThistle.html


I'm not sure which type of thistle I find growing here but it looks
like this:
http://www.ediblewildfood.com/bull-thistle.aspx
http://www.kingcounty.gov/environmen...l-thistle.aspx


Ads
  #17  
Old 12-07-2016, 01:53 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 1,682
Default weed control

On 12/07/16 11:28, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016, Jeff Layman wrote:

And what do you do with the dead weeds?


Once a week my mom's town picks up the yard debris to send to composting.
Stinger is used on food crops up to 45 days before harvest. I would think
by the time the compost is made the herbicide will be gone.


Unfortunately not. Just google "clopyralid" and "persistence" - for
example see http://compostingcouncil.org/persist...rbicide-faq/#1

Not long ago in the UK a number of composts had to be removed from the
market. When used to grow produce such as tomatoes, beans, and some
ornamentals the effects were very damaging - see
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=477

--

Jeff
  #18  
Old 12-07-2016, 05:39 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.food.cooking
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Posts: 9
Default weed control

Brooklyn1 used his keyboard to write :
Even with Round-Up the next spring new seeds carried by wind
and critters will germinate so be prepared to apply it every year.

Hey idiot, Glyphosate has no pre emergent effect on the soil.

In other words it *will not* prevent one weed seed from germinating.

Be prepard to apply it everytime a new weed gereminates.

HTH, clueless.
  #19  
Old 12-07-2016, 09:37 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 66
Default weed control

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016, Jeff Layman wrote:

Unfortunately not. Just google "clopyralid" and "persistence" - for
example see http://compostingcouncil.org/persist...rbicide-faq/#1


And Roundup is different? I don't think my ounce of clopyralid mixed into
the township's compost heap will make much difference. It is pretty crappy
compost with road gravel. I don't know who takes it for what use. We don't.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
  #20  
Old 12-07-2016, 10:21 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 1,682
Default weed control

On 12/07/16 21:37, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016, Jeff Layman wrote:

Unfortunately not. Just google "clopyralid" and "persistence" - for
example see http://compostingcouncil.org/persist...rbicide-faq/#1


And Roundup is different? I don't think my ounce of clopyralid mixed into
the township's compost heap will make much difference. It is pretty crappy
compost with road gravel. I don't know who takes it for what use. We don't.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


Roundup contains glyphosate. It is much less persistent than clopyralid.
Also, clopyralid is absorbed through he plant's roots. Glyphosate is
absorbed through leaves, so it doesn't matter if there is any in the
compost.

If yours is the only clopyralid mixed in the township's compost then it
won't matter. But if you are using it, maybe quite a few others are too,
and that might make a difference.

--

Jeff
  #21  
Old 13-07-2016, 12:25 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 272
Default weed control

On 2016-07-09 10:32:24 +0000, herb white said:

I have a gravel drive about 10 ft wide and 500 ft long that has some
weeds coming up. What is best to use to control those weeds that will
not pollute the river? Thanks for any info.


Sodium chlorate would be my choice. If applied carefully it will keep
weeds at bay for months and will not run off in a concentration that
would threaten the health of your river and aquifer. It has been
banned in the EU, unfortunately. Elsewhere it is getting rather
pricey, but still economical if you poke around a bit.

  #22  
Old 13-07-2016, 02:04 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 66
Default weed control

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016, Jeff Layman wrote:

Roundup contains glyphosate. It is much less persistent than clopyralid.
Also, clopyralid is absorbed through he plant's roots. Glyphosate is
absorbed through leaves, so it doesn't matter if there is any in the
compost.


Stinger is taken in by the leaves. It works its way down to the roots. I
only sprayed leaves, as directed.

If yours is the only clopyralid mixed in the township's compost then it
won't matter. But if you are using it, maybe quite a few others are too,
and that might make a difference.


At $80 a quart* [enough for spraying four acres of crops], and available
only by mail, there aren't going to be any other users in the town.

* https://www.keystonepestsolutions.co...de-1-quart-324

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
  #23  
Old 13-07-2016, 01:39 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 1,682
Default weed control

On 13/07/16 02:04, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016, Jeff Layman wrote:

Roundup contains glyphosate. It is much less persistent than clopyralid.
Also, clopyralid is absorbed through he plant's roots. Glyphosate is
absorbed through leaves, so it doesn't matter if there is any in the
compost.


Stinger is taken in by the leaves. It works its way down to the roots. I
only sprayed leaves, as directed.


I should have made it clear that glyphosate is absorbed only through
leaves and not through roots, but from the Dow information on clopyralid:

" Clopyralid is absorbed by the foliage and roots of plants..."

If yours is the only clopyralid mixed in the township's compost then it
won't matter. But if you are using it, maybe quite a few others are too,
and that might make a difference.


At $80 a quart* [enough for spraying four acres of crops], and available
only by mail, there aren't going to be any other users in the town.


I suppose that anything that works well isn't going to be cheap. Still,
that quart should last you a good few years!

--

Jeff
  #24  
Old 17-07-2016, 04:04 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 731
Default weed control

On 7/12/2016 5:53 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 12/07/16 11:28, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016, Jeff Layman wrote:

And what do you do with the dead weeds?


Once a week my mom's town picks up the yard debris to send to composting.
Stinger is used on food crops up to 45 days before harvest. I would think
by the time the compost is made the herbicide will be gone.


Unfortunately not. Just google "clopyralid" and "persistence" - for
example see http://compostingcouncil.org/persist...rbicide-faq/#1

Not long ago in the UK a number of composts had to be removed from the
market. When used to grow produce such as tomatoes, beans, and some
ornamentals the effects were very damaging - see
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=477


Seattle and others had a real problem with it in their compost.

"The organic growers in Eastern Washington who lost their certification
due to involuntary clopyralid contamination disagree. So do officials at
WSU at Pullman who have paid out more than $200,000 in damages to
growers whose tomato crops were killed by clopyralid-contaminated WSU
compost. So, thankfully, does Eastern Washington University, where
researchers are calling on Dow to cease clopyralid production."

http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/h...st-1076881.php
  #25  
Old 22-07-2016, 11:54 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 66
Default weed control

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 08:04:03 -0700, Bob F wrote:

"The organic growers in Eastern Washington who lost their certification
due to involuntary clopyralid contamination disagree. So do officials at
WSU at Pullman who have paid out more than $200,000 in damages to
growers whose tomato crops were killed by clopyralid-contaminated WSU
compost. So, thankfully, does Eastern Washington University, where
researchers are calling on Dow to cease clopyralid production."


What is clear from this is when the house gets sold I have to take what
remains of my quart to a toxic waste disposal site. And I should also do
this with my mom's RoundUp.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
  #26  
Old 09-09-2016, 07:38 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 66
Default weed control

On Wed, 13 Jul 2016, Jeff Layman wrote:

I suppose that anything that works well isn't going to be cheap. Still,
that quart should last you a good few years!


I'm still working on it. First I now use an ounce for a gallon. The
instructions are all about how many pints per acre (e.g. 1/2 to 1).

Then the Canada thistle keeps popping up in new locations. The back yard is
about 1/2 acre in size. Some is overgrown. The location where the
infestation started, and where I started to spray, is now clear. But each
time I go out I find an entirely new area infested with mostly small
plants. So small I could probably pull them up and leave no root behind.
But then there will be a big one or two, like inside of a untamed rose
bush.

At the last spraying there were seeds flying all around. Even from small
plants. I hope spraying the seeds killed the seeds. I know the battle will
continue into the next season.

I am also fighting an infestation of garlic mustard in one corner of the
yard. This one will be easier. I pulled the second year up last year as it
was going to seed. This Spring I made sure I got every second year before
it went to seed. Do that again next Spring and I should be done. Maybe a
few seeds take two years to germinate, but I can look for those in a couple
years.

I figured out what the survival strategy is for biannuals. Garlic mustard
likes forests. If the plant was an annual, and a forest fire came through
just before putting out seeds, it would wipe out the plant. For a biannual,
if a forest fire came through, the second year would get wiped out, but the
low first year would survive.

Don http://foraging.com/ e-mail at page bottom.
  #27  
Old 10-09-2016, 12:44 AM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 2,318
Default weed control

Don Wiss wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

I suppose that anything that works well isn't going to be cheap. Still,
that quart should last you a good few years!


I'm still working on it. First I now use an ounce for a gallon. The
instructions are all about how many pints per acre (e.g. 1/2 to 1).

Then the Canada thistle keeps popping up in new locations. The back yard is
about 1/2 acre in size. Some is overgrown. The location where the
infestation started, and where I started to spray, is now clear. But each
time I go out I find an entirely new area infested with mostly small
plants. So small I could probably pull them up and leave no root behind.
But then there will be a big one or two, like inside of a untamed rose
bush.

At the last spraying there were seeds flying all around. Even from small
plants. I hope spraying the seeds killed the seeds. I know the battle will
continue into the next season.

I am also fighting an infestation of garlic mustard in one corner of the
yard. This one will be easier. I pulled the second year up last year as it
was going to seed. This Spring I made sure I got every second year before
it went to seed. Do that again next Spring and I should be done. Maybe a
few seeds take two years to germinate, but I can look for those in a couple
years.

I figured out what the survival strategy is for biannuals. Garlic mustard
likes forests. If the plant was an annual, and a forest fire came through
just before putting out seeds, it would wipe out the plant. For a biannual,
if a forest fire came through, the second year would get wiped out, but the
low first year would survive.


no, that's not how seeds work, some will remain
viable for quite some time. sure you may have gotten
the most recent crops of seeds, but there are likely
plenty more in the soil that can eventually sprout
given the right conditions.

thistle seeds get moved around by birds/animals.
i dig them up when they try to get going in the
more formal gardens here, but they are all over
in other places.

aside from thistles and garlic mustard we also
have things like sow thistle and some invasive
grasses i keep under control using manual methods.
i don't like using any herbicides here if i can
avoid it.

a few spots of morning glory mayhem which i
would never plant again anywhere. poison ivy,
wild grape vines, sumac...

luckily we never got into blackberries.

those are just the wild plants to try to work
around then there are the honeysuckles we planted
and the lavender which we both are reactive if
we get sap on the skin, the garlic i scattered
around and have been trying to weed out ever
since, introduced plants from wildflower seed
mixes which aren't very nice and spread all over
the place... and then there's pennyroyal and
others of the mint family, yarrows, ...

the nice thing is that we are ok with thymes
and they are doing well at taking over some
spaces that used to be weed magnets. once they
fill in that calms down an area nicely. not
much bothers them.

i really can't wait until i can take what little
grassy areas are left and turn them into gardens
of one kind or another. there's plenty of
grasses around us, i don't really need them here
though. i'd much rather have strawberries or
something flowering or edible (or both).


songbird
  #28  
Old 10-09-2016, 10:33 PM posted to rec.gardens
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Posts: 9
Default weed control

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 14:38:03 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2016, Jeff Layman wrote:

I suppose that anything that works well isn't going to be cheap. Still,
that quart should last you a good few years!


I'm still working on it. First I now use an ounce for a gallon. The
instructions are all about how many pints per acre (e.g. 1/2 to 1).

Then the Canada thistle keeps popping up in new locations. The back yard is
about 1/2 acre in size. Some is overgrown. The location where the
infestation started, and where I started to spray, is now clear. But each
time I go out I find an entirely new area infested with mostly small
plants. So small I could probably pull them up and leave no root behind.
But then there will be a big one or two, like inside of a untamed rose
bush.

At the last spraying there were seeds flying all around. Even from small
plants. I hope spraying the seeds killed the seeds. I know the battle will
continue into the next season.

I am also fighting an infestation of garlic mustard in one corner of the
yard. This one will be easier. I pulled the second year up last year as it
was going to seed. This Spring I made sure I got every second year before
it went to seed. Do that again next Spring and I should be done. Maybe a
few seeds take two years to germinate, but I can look for those in a couple
years.

I figured out what the survival strategy is for biannuals. Garlic mustard
likes forests. If the plant was an annual, and a forest fire came through
just before putting out seeds, it would wipe out the plant. For a biannual,
if a forest fire came through, the second year would get wiped out, but the
low first year would survive.


This is probably not very helpful to you, but when I bought this
property it had a couple of acres of lawn/pasture surrounding the
house which was infested with a variety of weeds, mostly dandelions,
plantain and thistles.

Spraying and regular mowing never really worked as it just seemed to
create new opportunities for weeds to establish themselves again.

A few years ago I wised up and applied plenty of fertiliser and lime,
kept it well irrigated and ran sheep on it. Even after the first year
the difference was quite noticeable, by the second year the weeds were
essentially completely gone. The better types of grass have dominated
the pasture now too and grows super lush. I rarely need to use
herbicides anywhere on the property now.
  #29  
Old 06-04-2017, 07:50 AM
Registered User
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 3
Default

You can salt them, warm water and salt in a bucket (stirred) then go over your your gravel driveway giving the weeds a decent drink

Roundup or zero is good also, you can get ones that are very pinpointed
 




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