On Mon, 10 May 2004 16:56:11 +0000, Ignoramus15189 wrote:

I have enough critters to take care of (a 3 yo kid and 2 chickens and a
fishtank). A dog to keep the 'coons away is a hassle, and, I cannot have
a dog live inside the house due to allergy.

OK.

I am sure I can come up with a safe release procedure, such as, I would
be in the bed of the truck, and release the raccoon from a lowered trap,
or whatever.

I relocated som opossums and it went fine. Placed the trap so when I
opened it, the critter was facing toward some brushy cover.

I would release them in a forest preserve.

Unless you're sure it isn't prohibited, be stealthy about it.

About an electric fence ... Assuming yours are standard raccoons, they'll
raid the garden at night, so it wouldn't be on during the day. I wouldn't
put one outside the chain link in an urban area in any event, but it
should be possible to attach one to the top with some kind of angle
brackets (pointed in). The raccoons would get zapped on the nose when they
come over the top of the chain link.

On Mon, 10 May 2004 14:41:03 -0700, Adam Russell wrote:

Now as to the matter of electric fences, when I was a child my grandpa
told me to stay away from the electric fence surrounding the cow field.

He never showed you how to take a stalk of timothy, start by holding the
end and touching the other end to the fence ... then shortening the
distace between your hand and the wire until you felt the electricity?

He said it would kick me like a sledgehammer. He could have been
pulling my leg, but I imagine that anything meant to coerce a cow would
hurt a human. OTOH, a raccoon is not a cow. The question is open
whether you could make a fence with enough jolt to keep out racoons but
not enough to hurt 3 year olds. I personally doubt it.

Dairy cattle are more sensitive than humans to electricity. "Stray
voltage" that humans don't notice can decrease their production. My REC
(rural electric company) will come out and check the barn if a problem is
suspected. With any animal, you want them to touch their nose (wet and no
hair) to the fence. A trick with bear is to hang bacon from the wire.

I wouldn't have an electric fence positioned-so and/or on-when a 3-year
old could get to it. But, worst case, it could certainly hurt, but I
don't think harm him/her. An additional precaution is to use a battery
operated fence to limit the amperage in case the tranformer malfunctions.

Oh, for cryin' out loud....

I grew up on a farm, and as kids we grabbed the fence tons of times when we
thought it was off. It hurt like hell, but it didn't kill us. Just sent us
crying to mom.

Ig..don't know what state you live in, but in PA the Game Commission will
remove nuisance wildlife at no charge....

Jennifer
"Adam Russell" wrote in message
...

"Snooze" wrote in message
. com...

"Adam Russell" wrote in message
...
Evolution in action. He'll either learn what futility is, or he'll
actually
educate himself on electric fences and not subscribe to ignorant
hysteria.
I'll bet he's even touched his tongue to a battery as a child, but
somehow
he thinks that should have electrocuted him.

I'm pretty sure it takes more than 9v to scare off a racoon. So how
much
voltage would you use that would do the job but not hurt the child? I
know
you can die from as little as 50v. Even less if you got imaginative.



Don't let your kids wear wool socks on a low humidity day...imagine what
would happen if they discovered they can shuffle around the house and zap
each other with a few thousand volts. A typical static electricity shock
is
about 2000 - 4000 volts.

Of course a amperage involved is so low, that aside from the surprise, no
damage is done. Ever taken a weak 9v battery and tapped it against your
tongue? A fresh battery hurts a little, but a weak one gives a little
tingling sensation.

A consumer grade electric fence is harmless, it will give a mild shock,
but
nothing dangerous. I couldn't find the specifications online, so
guestimating, if an electric fence transformer draws 120v A/C @ 1 amp, the
output would be 4000 v A/C at .03 amp.

That's just a mild shocker, pretty safe..if it was D/C on the otherhand is
a
different story.

You dont know much about electricity it appears. Static electricity is
completely different from transformer electricity. When you get a shock
from static electricity it is 2-4k for only an extreme fraction of a second.
I dont remember how short exactly (1ms comes to mind), but it is the brevity
that saves you. As it swiftly runs out of electrons the voltage falls to
zero. Power out of your wall does not fall off. At all. That 120v will
deliver 1mA or 15A depending on the resistance of what you are powering and
only limited by your circuit breaker or fuse. If you were to put a penny in
the fusebox it could deliver 1000's of amps with no problem except that the
wires would get hot. So putting it through a transformer will not reduce
the amperage available to any safe amount. 4000v will kill you, and it
matters not whether it is DC or AC.

Now as to the matter of electric fences, when I was a child my grandpa told
me to stay away from the electric fence surrounding the cow field. He said
it would kick me like a sledgehammer. He could have been pulling my leg,
but I imagine that anything meant to coerce a cow would hurt a human. OTOH,
a raccoon is not a cow. The question is open whether you could make a fence
with enough jolt to keep out racoons but not enough to hurt 3 year olds. I
personally doubt it.

Ignoramus15189 pontificated wisely
that:

In article , The Rock Garden wrote:
"Ignoramus15189" wrote

forgot to say, trapping and releasing raccoons would be educational
for my 3 year old son.


Maybe not in the way you intended. First of all check out your state and
local regulations, it may be illegal to trap and release game animals.
Second, even if it is legal, you are merely transferring your problem to
another area for someone else to deal with, and can very well also transfer
diseases such as parvo, rabies and scabies along with the coon. Third, in
the long run it won't even matter 'cause a new population will move in to
take over the void left by removing the current residents.

There are many (well, several anyway) ways to fence coons out of a garden;
probably an electric offset wire around the bottom of the perimeter would be
both the most animal and cost effective.

Check out both the web site and order their excellent fencing catalog for
ideas.

http://www.premier1supplies.com/store/fencing.html

I would not use an electric fence with a 3 year old kid in the house.

Given that the racoons are nocturnal you would only need to turn the
fence on at night when presumably your 3yr old would be inside.


I can second the recommendation for Premier. Their customer reps are
very helpful and knowledgable. I called when I was setting up fencing
for our goats planning on getting a fancy combination of electric twine,
HT wire, fiberglass line posts, metal corner t-posts and a solar-battery
energizer. After asking what I wanted the fencing for their rep
suggested electric netting, some plastic corner posts and an energizer
with 9v alkaline battery. Saved me a bunch of money and I've been very
happy with the system.
Kevin Miller
(rot13)
http://www.net1plus.com/users/miller9

Ignoramus15189 pontificated wisely
that:

I have a fenced backyard where I have a vegetable garden that is
somewhat ransacked by raccoons. (or some other animals).

It is fenced with a chain link fence, but they still sneak in. I am
guessing that they get in between the fence and the ground. What are
the practical ways of raccoon proofing the backyard. Maybe some wire
stuff that can be added to the fence, or what? Can I simply buy a
raccoon trap and transport a few away from my property?

Shooting them is not an option due to our city code.

Check out an airgun: Not the Daisy bb gun many had as a child, but an
adult pellet gun (www.straightshooters.com). Don't know about where you
are but here in MA firearms are highly regulated to the point I cannot
use one on my 12 acres, but an airgun is not considered a firearm and
has very little restriction. Check your local reg because some U.S.
states and towns, as well as other countries, do restrict airguns
significantly.

Also be sure to carefully check your local hunting regulations. Many
places, including MA, have an "exemption" to the hunting season rules
that give property owners the right to destroy wildlife in the act of
causing damage or threatening personal safety.

Good luck.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ @ @ Please forgive my typos as my right hand is injured. @ @ @
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}" ;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

Kevin Miller
(rot13)
http://www.net1plus.com/users/miller9

Are you sure it is raccoons? We have a fairly large veggie garden and
there are lots of raccoons around, but they don't damage the veggies.
Des

"Ignoramus15189" wrote in
message ...
I have a fenced backyard where I have a vegetable garden that is
somewhat ransacked by raccoons. (or some other animals).

It is fenced with a chain link fence, but they still sneak in. I am
guessing that they get in between the fence and the ground. What are
the practical ways of raccoon proofing the backyard. Maybe some wire
stuff that can be added to the fence, or what? Can I simply buy a
raccoon trap and transport a few away from my property?

Shooting them is not an option due to our city code.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
@ @ @ Please forgive my typos as my right hand is injured. @
@ @

char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p
,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

On Mon, 10 May 2004 20:54:32 -0400, styxx374 wrote:
Oh, for cryin' out loud....

I grew up on a farm, and as kids we grabbed the fence tons of times when we
thought it was off. It hurt like hell, but it didn't kill us. Just sent us
crying to mom.

Ig..don't know what state you live in, but in PA the Game Commission will
remove nuisance wildlife at no charge....

Me too, Northern Tier. I did see them drive by with the bear barrel once,
but I wouldn't hold my breath for them to remove anything else.
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/v...a=458&q=160709

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:25:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Ignoramus15189" wrote in message
...
In article , Doug Kanter wrote:
"Ignoramus15189" wrote in message
...
forgot to say, trapping and releasing raccoons would be educational
for my 3 year old son.

Is it an ego thing, or is there some other reason you don't want to
enlist
your local animal control people?

I hate spending money on various contractors. Hiring contractors is an
unbelievable waste of time and money.

Are we on the same planet? I'm referring to your TOWN'S animal control
department. I've never heard of those people charging a citizen for removing
an animal.

Where I live (a little north of Seattle, Washington) you have to pay for this
service unless you can show they are injured or diseased. I had a family of 4
destroying my ponds last year and was told to either live with it or pay the
cities subcontractor $300 to remove them. And keep paying about $75 per animal
after that as new ones arrived to fill the created void.

Tony

In article ,
says...

"bill" wrote in message
news:MPG.1b09865a96075c6c98970b@localhost...
In article ,
says...


snip
I'm pretty sure it takes more than 9v to scare off a racoon. So how much
voltage would you use that would do the job but not hurt the child? I
know
you can die from as little as 50v. Even less if you got imaginative.




Voltage doen't kill you, current does. You get hit a lot of
voltage when zapped with static electricity, but very little
current.

Yes but they dont use static electricity in electric fences, do they?




Electricity is electricity. Lightning is static electricty, but I
wouldn't want to get hit with it.

Bill

(Charles H. Buchholtz) wrote in message ...
Ignoramus15189 ) wrote:
: I have a fenced backyard where I have a vegetable garden that is
: somewhat ransacked by raccoons. (or some other animals).

Here's the advice I hear frequently on "You Bet Your Garden" with Mike
McGrath:

Dig a trench two feet deep around your garden, and put 6 foot tall
wire fence into it. No burrowing animal burrows deeper than two feet.
Use stakes to support the fence, and fill in the trench. You now have
four feet of fence above ground and two feet of fence below.

Don't secure the top foot of the fence to the stakes. Instead, bend
it outwards at least 45 degrees.

Now you have a fence that burrowing creatures can't burrow under, and
climbing creatures can't climb over. When they try to climb, they
have to hang upside down from the unsecured part of the fence, which
bends under their weight and drops them on t
he ground.

The only way a critter can get through such a fence is by jumping over
it, knocking it down, or going through it.

I've never tried this myself, but it sounds reasonable.

--- Chip


------
In the ancient days they used a mote.


You had one around your castle... with a drawbridge.


Zebrin

I have no love for raccoons. They have killed too many of my pet ducks.
They kill just for the fun of killing as they do not eat the meat. Dogs
are fairly effective at chasing them but you want to make sure your dog
is big enough that it will be the winner if it actually catches the
raccoon. The Have-a-heart trap is good. However my idea is to submerge
the trap in the swimming pool if you actually catch a raccoon.

Dick

"Sunflower" wrote in message ...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Ignoramus15189" wrote in message
...
forgot to say, trapping and releasing raccoons would be educational
for my 3 year old son.

Is it an ego thing, or is there some other reason you don't want to enlist
your local animal control people? The process you're describing might be
more educational than you think, but not for the right reasons. Your son
might learn how boring it is to sit around holding your dick in an
emergency
room for 3 hours while they take care of victims of car crashes &
gunshots.

You didn't say how large your garden is, but if the 'coons are attacking
just a few things, you could try sprinkling cayenne powder on the leaves
and
the soil around those plants. Works great for keeping cats out of the
garden, or from scratching furniture.



Animal Control here WILL NOT deal with anything but dogs and cats and the
occasional potbelly pig. Raccoons are *wildlife* and therefore non-domestic
and not their problem. If you have an injured one, the state wildlife guys
will direct you to a vet and foster parent, but they don't deal with them
either unless they're possibly rabid, and since that's not happened since
sometime in the 70's, you just get told to call a pest control firm who'll
charge you big bucks and still not solve your problem.

If the original poster and his child are too stupid to install an electric
wire like was recommended, then let him deal with no fish in the fish ponds
and no veggies in the garden and several ER bites from trying to trap them.
Evolution in action. He'll either learn what futility is, or he'll actually
educate himself on electric fences and not subscribe to ignorant hysteria.
I'll bet he's even touched his tongue to a battery as a child, but somehow
he thinks that should have electrocuted him.
***
Next time your aldermen or county council meets for budget
deliberations, show up. When the animal control people put in for
their appropriation, point out their dereliction of duty. Pack the
gallery with your supporters if you can, with the press if they will
send a reporter. Democracy in action.-Jitney

"bill" wrote in message
news:MPG.1b09eda2ef2138ea98970e@localhost...
In article ,
says...

"bill" wrote in message
news:MPG.1b09865a96075c6c98970b@localhost...
In article ,
says...


snip
I'm pretty sure it takes more than 9v to scare off a racoon. So how
much
voltage would you use that would do the job but not hurt the child? I
know
you can die from as little as 50v. Even less if you got imaginative.




Voltage doen't kill you, current does. You get hit a lot of
voltage when zapped with static electricity, but very little
current.

Yes but they dont use static electricity in electric fences, do they?




Electricity is electricity. Lightning is static electricty, but I
wouldn't want to get hit with it.

No, there's a difference. A static charge of 1000v will (in most cases)
dissipate so quick you barely hear the snap, where 1000v ac or dc will kill
you more than likely. Now that I think of it some, it may be that they *do*
use static electricity for fences. Looked up electric fence on the
internet. What I read doesnt explicitely say static charge, but they are
talking about powering it with a low voltage battery so that does kind of
imply a short lived charge.

Xref: kermit rec.gardens:277746 misc.rural:130959 misc.consumers.house:106060 alt.home.repair:474717

In article ,
says...

"bill" wrote in message
news:MPG.1b09eda2ef2138ea98970e@localhost...
snip
Voltage doen't kill you, current does. You get hit a lot of
voltage when zapped with static electricity, but very little
current.

Yes but they dont use static electricity in electric fences, do they?




Electricity is electricity. Lightning is static electricty, but I
wouldn't want to get hit with it.

No, there's a difference. A static charge of 1000v will (in most cases)
dissipate so quick you barely hear the snap, where 1000v ac or dc will kill
you more than likely. Now that I think of it some, it may be that they *do*
use static electricity for fences. Looked up electric fence on the
internet. What I read doesnt explicitely say static charge, but they are
talking about powering it with a low voltage battery so that does kind of
imply a short lived charge.




Your static charge is DC. It's the same as the charge stored in a
capacitor. It just happens to be created by friction instead of a
battery or other mechanism. The zap you feel when you get charged
up shuffling across a carpet then touching a door knob is just the
electrons flowing from you to the door knob hence DC. It doesn't
kill you because there isn't a lot of current flow for a long
period of time.

"Ampere. The unit of electrical current. Also milliamp (one
thousandth of an amp) and microamp (one millionth of an amp). One
amp corresponds to the flow of about 6 x 1018 electrons per
second."

So 1000v that only produces current flow for a millisecond is
going to be felt, but that's about it because as soon as the
current starts flowing there's nothing to keep it flowing and the
voltage drops quickly. When you get hit with 1000v with a power
source behind it that can keep the current flowing with out the
voltage dropping your in deep doodoo.

For the sake of argument, lets say your body equals 100 ohms of
impedance: 1000v /100 ohms = 10 amps but since amps are a
function of current over time and current flowed only for 1
millisecond you have to divide 10 amps by 1000 and get 10 milliamp
equivalent. Enough to get your attention for sure. But rarely if
ever fatal.

See:
http://www.t2.unh.edu/spring99/pg4.html

for the effects of rising levels of current flow.

The fences probably use a capactive discharge circuit.


Bill

"jitney" wrote in message Next time your aldermen or county council
meets for budget
deliberations, show up. When the animal control people put in for
their appropriation, point out their dereliction of duty. Pack the
gallery with your supporters if you can, with the press if they will
send a reporter. Democracy in action.-Jitney

And you'll be laughed right out of the building. The AC people are hired.
They do what they're told to do, they pick up what they're allowed to pick
up. The aldermen are ELECTED. They are the ones who need to change the
policy if the AC don't pick up wildlilfe.
I used to be an animal control officer which usually means a glorified dog
catcher. I was paid to pick up stray PETS. Because I also was a wildlife
rehabilitator they said I could pick up wildlife but wouldn't get paid for
it. Only reason I could legally pick up wildlife is because of my rehab
license.
Sue
Northern Wisconsin