Hello all,
Hoping to pick your brains if you would be so kind.

I have a lawn that needs some (ok, a lot) of help, although it's not beyond repair. It has significant moss growth and thatch and dries out too readily. My thoughts so far involve scarifying, hollow tine aeration and top dressing/lawn sand brushed in, with new seeding.

What I would like to know is, does it matter in which order this care is done? Can it be done all together to keep the time taken down to a minimum?

Many thanks.

lasors wrote:
Hello all,
Hoping to pick your brains if you would be so kind.

I have a lawn that needs some (ok, a lot) of help, although it's not
beyond repair. It has significant moss growth and thatch and dries out
too readily. My thoughts so far involve scarifying, hollow tine
aeration and top dressing/lawn sand brushed in, with new seeding.

What I would like to know is, does it matter in which order this care
is done? Can it be done all together to keep the time taken down to a
minimum?

Keep it fertilized and mow it very long. I use the highest setting on my mower.

On Apr 20, 5:23*am, lasors wrote:
Hello all,
Hoping to pick your brains if you would be so kind.

I have a lawn that needs some (ok, a lot) of help, although it's not
beyond repair. It has significant moss growth and thatch

Are you sure you know what thatch really looks like and
that it's really excessive? Many people think thatch is just
the normal dead, decaying grass clippings. It's not. Thatch
is a lot of dead plant material that becomes so thick it's
like a thatch roof.



and dries out
too readily. My thoughts so far involve scarifying, hollow tine aeration
and top dressing/lawn sand brushed in, with new seeding.

The scarifying is only necessary if you really have a thatch
problem. And I would not do that and aeration at the same
time. Either of those will damage and kill some of the existing
grass. I would seperate them by months. You only need to
top dress if the soil needs something added to it. For seeding
the best tool is an over-seeder, which cuts groves in the soil
and drops seed. Fall is by far the best time to do seeding. You
have less competition from weeds, lower temps, less watering
and more time for the turf to establish before you get to hotter
summer conditions.


What I would like to know is, does it matter in which order this care is
done? Can it be done all together to keep the time taken down to a
minimum?

Many thanks.

--
lasors

Thanks for your reply.

I can't be 100% sure unless I take a core of the lawn, and I am a novice after all. However, it is thick with old grass and very spongy in places. I would say the overiding problem is the moss, it's so obviously everywhere. If the moss was gone I'm sure the true extent of the problem would be easier to determine. It would certainly look awful with the moss removed as the percentage of good grass shoots isn't great.

Maybe I should concentrate of the moss first? I would probably go for a soluble iron sulphate solution as it's cheap and fast, and a good rake when it's black. Or is it even absolutely necessary to kill it first? Then seed and feed?

I realise the above does nothing to address the problem of why the moss is forming, which I believe to be poor drainage, which could be linked to a mass of thatch holding moisture?

Would aeration/drainage be better coming later on, once I've tried to get the grass growing again?

On 4/21/2013 10:04 AM, lasors wrote:
I realise the above does nothing to address the problem of why the moss
is forming, which I believe to be poor drainage, which could be linked
to a mass of thatch holding moisture?

Would aeration/drainage be better coming later on, once I've tried to
get the grass growing again?





Might also check pH. Moss can indicate high acidity and liming might help.

On Apr 21, 10:04*am, lasors wrote:
I realise the above does nothing to address the problem of why the moss
is forming, which I believe to be poor drainage, which could be linked
to a mass of thatch holding moisture?

Get a flat spade and take out a sq ft of turf in a few
spots. Look at it from the side. A half inch or so of
dead material is normal. If you have an inch or two of
thatch, then you have a problem. You can google to
find some pics.



Would aeration/drainage be better coming later on, once I've tried to
get the grass growing again?

--
lasors

If the drainage is related to compaction, then aeration will
help. But it could also be due to other factors, like that
area of the soil having a higher water table. Or it could
be that there is a clay layer a few inches down. If the
cause is those, then aeration isn't going to solve it. Aeration
is generally a good thing though, so no real harm in doing it
and it should help the grass grow.

The only negative is that while you can do it anytime, I'd
prefer to do it in Fall. That's the best time to seed and if
you do the aeration now, disturbing the soil, you're giving weeds an
opportunity to grow. In the Fall, that's less of a
problem. But you can always go after the weeds with
a herbicide.

lasors wrote:

I have a lawn that needs some (ok, a lot) of help, although it's not
beyond repair. It has significant moss growth and thatch and dries out
too readily. My thoughts so far involve scarifying, hollow tine aeration
and top dressing/lawn sand brushed in, with new seeding.

What I would like to know is, does it matter in which order this care is
done? Can it be done all together to keep the time taken down to a
minimum?

Many thanks.

there are many potential factors in this so
it is really best for you to find a local lawn
person who can come and look at your site and
determine what is going on.

the rest of this is a general guide, but some
of it may not apply to your situation.

new construction often doesn't include very
much topsoil. even if they put down sod you
may find only a few inches of topsoil underneath.
which means it really cannot support long term
grass growth if the grass is cut and removed.
over time the grass thins as the soil gets
compacted and then the weeds take over because
there are spots for the weed seeds to easily
germinate. this can be counteracted by aerating
and adding compost as described below and using
a mulching lawn mower. you do not need to weed
kill or reseed if the species of grasses are
suitable for your area and sunlight. just mow
regularly and keep adding compost in thin layers
and the grasses will recover and smother out most
weeds. if there are specific areas after a bit
that are full of nothing but weeds then you can
spot treat those areas, but reseeding is usually
not very good because the reseeding might have
different grass species in the mix and then the
lawn looks even worse. just tug weeds out as
you can and the surrounding grasses will recolonise
the area.

it is very unlikely you have a thatch problem
if i dries out very quickly. more likely you
have a poor compacted soil problem, not enough
light, wrong grass species, or cutting it too
short and removing the clippings instead of
using a mulching mower.

all of these can be dealt with in various ways.

poor soil can be aerated and then amended with
a thin layer of compost (1/4") at a time until
the compost gets broken down, then repeat as
needed during the growing season, but ease off
when cooler and wetter weather returns.

the lack of light may need some tree thinning
or different species of grasses.

some areas may be better off turned into shade
gardens.

if you are cutting the grass and bagging the
clippings instead of letting them break down on
the lawn, then you're stripping nutrients from
the soil over time. use a mulching mower set on
a fairly high setting often enough that there
aren't lumps collecting on the surface to smother
the grass.

compacted soil and pH adjustments may help the
moss problem, but aerating, getting enough light
and adding compost and mowing higher will give
the grass a better chance to smother the moss.

moss spores are constantly floating in the air.
you cannot get rid of it, you can only make the
conditions more favorable to grass so that any
mosses won't be able to do much.


songbird

Thank you all very much for your advice. I now have a good plan of attack for now until Autumn.

"lasors" wrote in message ...

Hello all,
Hoping to pick your brains if you would be so kind.

I have a lawn that needs some (ok, a lot) of help, although it's not
beyond repair. It has significant moss growth and thatch and dries out
too readily. My thoughts so far involve scarifying, hollow tine aeration
and top dressing/lawn sand brushed in, with new seeding.

What I would like to know is, does it matter in which order this care is
done? Can it be done all together to keep the time taken down to a
minimum?

Many thanks.

Got advice you're getting. I would add to test the lawn with a home test kit. Instead of taking samples at various places and mixing together, I do each spot separately. And yes, they all came out the same. LOL!! My yard showed no nitrogen and OK for P & K, so that was easy to fix.

I have seen so many of my neighbors kill a decent lawn, dig it up and lay down sod. Always seems like a waste to me. Our lawn looked worse than any other, and all did was sow bare spots, cover with soil or compost and water. It always comes back and in a couple of weeks look nearly as good as the new sod. Also doing this is a lot faster than spraying/killing the lawn and waiting weeks to lay down the sod.

I have mulched this lawn for 20 years and never thatched. Aerated once years ago and could not tell any difference.

"Guv Bob" wrote in message ...
"lasors" wrote in message ...

Hello all,
Hoping to pick your brains if you would be so kind.

I have a lawn that needs some (ok, a lot) of help, although it's not
beyond repair. It has significant moss growth and thatch and dries out
too readily. My thoughts so far involve scarifying, hollow tine aeration
and top dressing/lawn sand brushed in, with new seeding.

What I would like to know is, does it matter in which order this care is
done? Can it be done all together to keep the time taken down to a
minimum?

Many thanks.

Got advice you're getting. I would add to test the lawn with a home test kit. Instead of taking samples at various places and mixing together, I do each spot separately. And yes, they all came out the same. LOL!! My yard showed no nitrogen and OK for P & K, so that was easy to fix.

I have seen so many of my neighbors kill a decent lawn, dig it up and lay down sod. Always seems like a waste to me. Our lawn looked worse than any other, and all did was sow bare spots, cover with soil or compost and water. It always comes back and in a couple of weeks look nearly as good as the new sod. Also doing this is a lot faster than spraying/killing the lawn and waiting weeks to lay down the sod.

I have mulched this lawn for 20 years and never thatched. Aerated once years ago and could not tell any difference.

===

I meant "Good" advice you're getting.....

Another tip.... if the lovely wife is complaining about the lawn, here's what you do -- go for a walk. On the way back, cross to the other side of the street. About 2 houses before you get home, stop and point out the flaws in the yard you're standing in front of. Then look over to your yard and comment on how green it looks. Unless yours is in really bad shape, it will always look better from there.