It appears that another great product has been taken off the market. I
was at my local nursery yesterday where I have purchased Captan for a
number of years only to be told that they "can no longer get anything
that works". Although Captan is still available in some states, it is
no longer available in California, Alaska, Hawaii and a few other
states. So, without warning it has been banned here.

I called one nursery only to find that the product was also used on
horses in the saddle area to eliminate fungus. I don't recall seeing
that the product was supposed to be for horses and animals.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

Perhaps it's just a case of him being demoted to Lieutenant.......

Get it? Lieutenant Funicide!!!!!

Mwahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry, I really have to grow up.

"profpam" wrote in message ...
It appears that another great product has been taken off the market. I
was at my local nursery yesterday where I have purchased Captan for a
number of years only to be told that they "can no longer get anything
that works". Although Captan is still available in some states, it is
no longer available in California, Alaska, Hawaii and a few other
states. So, without warning it has been banned here.

I called one nursery only to find that the product was also used on
horses in the saddle area to eliminate fungus. I don't recall seeing
that the product was supposed to be for horses and animals.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

Me, too, I guess, having had the same thought...
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill
"Bolero" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
u...
Perhaps it's just a case of him being demoted to Lieutenant.......

Get it? Lieutenant Funicide!!!!!

Mwahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry, I really have to grow up.




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On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:47:53 +1100, "Bolero"
wrote:



Sorry, I really have to grow up.

Please don't.

bb

Road Trip! Just another excuse to go to Las Vegas! Take in a show, lose
money at the slots, pick up banned perticides, drive home. Time it to
coincide with teh Las Vegas Orchid Society meeting and I'd say you had a
nice profitable trip!

K Barrett

"profpam" wrote in message ...
It appears that another great product has been taken off the market. I
was at my local nursery yesterday where I have purchased Captan for a
number of years only to be told that they "can no longer get anything
that works". Although Captan is still available in some states, it is
no longer available in California, Alaska, Hawaii and a few other
states. So, without warning it has been banned here.

I called one nursery only to find that the product was also used on
horses in the saddle area to eliminate fungus. I don't recall seeing
that the product was supposed to be for horses and animals.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

K,

Now that is an idea! Just have to have the money to go to Vegas again.
I do recommend the Las Vegas Orchid Society -- a wonderful group! They
also have a brochure on native Nevada orchids, which is great reading
material.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

--------------------------------------------------
K Barrett wrote:

Road Trip! Just another excuse to go to Las Vegas! Take in a show, lose
money at the slots, pick up banned perticides, drive home. Time it to
coincide with teh Las Vegas Orchid Society meeting and I'd say you had a
nice profitable trip!

K Barrett

"profpam" wrote in message ...
It appears that another great product has been taken off the market. I
was at my local nursery yesterday where I have purchased Captan for a
number of years only to be told that they "can no longer get anything
that works". Although Captan is still available in some states, it is
no longer available in California, Alaska, Hawaii and a few other
states. So, without warning it has been banned here.

I called one nursery only to find that the product was also used on
horses in the saddle area to eliminate fungus. I don't recall seeing
that the product was supposed to be for horses and animals.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

i just got a line on some

my source is looking into some old stock that is still in california and
still legal

he shud be getting back to me in a day or two

Jim
"profpam" wrote in message ...
It appears that another great product has been taken off the market. I
was at my local nursery yesterday where I have purchased Captan for a
number of years only to be told that they "can no longer get anything
that works". Although Captan is still available in some states, it is
no longer available in California, Alaska, Hawaii and a few other
states. So, without warning it has been banned here.

I called one nursery only to find that the product was also used on
horses in the saddle area to eliminate fungus. I don't recall seeing
that the product was supposed to be for horses and animals.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

I'll probably do the same once the supply in California runs out. Make a run
to Reno. Maybe I'll time it to coincide with the Reno Society meeting. Ha!
This is getting to be like AA! Travel, attend meetings... buy orchids...

K Barrett
..
"profpam" wrote in message ...
K,

Now that is an idea! Just have to have the money to go to Vegas again.
I do recommend the Las Vegas Orchid Society -- a wonderful group! They
also have a brochure on native Nevada orchids, which is great reading
material.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

--------------------------------------------------
K Barrett wrote:

Road Trip! Just another excuse to go to Las Vegas! Take in a show, lose
money at the slots, pick up banned perticides, drive home. Time it to
coincide with teh Las Vegas Orchid Society meeting and I'd say you had a
nice profitable trip!

K Barrett

"profpam" wrote in message
...
It appears that another great product has been taken off the market.
I
was at my local nursery yesterday where I have purchased Captan for a
number of years only to be told that they "can no longer get anything
that works". Although Captan is still available in some states, it is
no longer available in California, Alaska, Hawaii and a few other
states. So, without warning it has been banned here.

I called one nursery only to find that the product was also used on
horses in the saddle area to eliminate fungus. I don't recall seeing
that the product was supposed to be for horses and animals.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

Hi all, I just want to remind you that Captan is a known carcinogen
(by the State of Florida) so be very careful not to expose yourself to
it on your skin or inhaling the dust. I used to use it very carelessly
years ago, not knowing. Now I use cinnamon in it's place most times.





"Jim S" wrote in message . com...
i just got a line on some

my source is looking into some old stock that is still in california and
still legal

he shud be getting back to me in a day or two

Jim
"profpam" wrote in message ...
It appears that another great product has been taken off the market. I
was at my local nursery yesterday where I have purchased Captan for a
number of years only to be told that they "can no longer get anything
that works". Although Captan is still available in some states, it is
no longer available in California, Alaska, Hawaii and a few other
states. So, without warning it has been banned here.

I called one nursery only to find that the product was also used on
horses in the saddle area to eliminate fungus. I don't recall seeing
that the product was supposed to be for horses and animals.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

Mary Lou wrote:

Hi all, I just want to remind you that Captan is a known carcinogen
(by the State of Florida) so be very careful not to expose yourself to
it on your skin or inhaling the dust. I used to use it very carelessly
years ago, not knowing. Now I use cinnamon in it's place most times.



Actually according to the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), Florida has
some sort of knowledge that the scientific community doesn't....
http://www.greenbook.net/docs/MSDS/M37110.PDF There are far worse
things for you than this that are perfectly legal. You should see the
MSDS for table salt. Or water, for that matter. Here is a link to one
of the sheets for good old aqua pura
(http://www.bandj.com/BJMSDS/MSDS_PDF/water.pdf).

Captain is classified as a 'probable human carcinogen', based on tumor
formation in some laboratory studies (ie, not humans) and similarity to
known carcinogens. Probable carcinogen is not at all the same as 'known
human carcinogen'. Actually tumors are not necessarily a horrible thing
either, if they are not malignant (I presume they are non-malignant, or
there would be a note to that effect). No evidence of mutagenic or
teratogenic activity for this compound in laboratory studies. Oral LD50
(the dose lethal to 50% of the subjects) in rats is 5g/kg. I weigh
about 100kg. That means I'd have to (if I were a rat) eat 500 grams (a
little more than a pound) of the stuff to have a 50% chance of kicking
off. I'll take that risk.

As to care in using it, of course... But, according to the laboratory
studies, dermal(skin) toxicity in rat has an LD50 of 2g/kg (half a pound
to put me in the ground) and inhalation toxicity is 1.0mg/L (trust me,
that is pretty high too). So, I wouldn't worry too much about a little
dust. It is supposed to be an eye irritant, so don't throw it at your
face. Again, just because something is relatively non toxic doesn't
mean you should shower with it, use due caution and wear protective
gear, but don't freak out if you spill a bit of it.

So, banning it because it is a human carcinogen is not at all correct.
It is not. More accurately, if it is, it hasn't been demonstrated. It
is _likely_ to be carcinogenic in high doses, but that isn't the same
thing. It is horribly toxic to fish, however, which might be a good
enough reason to ban it. Is this a case of regulation gone too far?
Maybe. Don't ask me, I don't use Captan either. But I might like the
option if I had a million plants. Cinnamon works for me too...

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Rob makes some good points, but a few things about Captan should
be mentioned.

If memory serves, Canada was the first to raise questions about
captan some years ago. Supposedly their strawberry crop was going to
implode if it were yanked. California did the same thing; they consider it
a carcinogen under Proposition 65.

I would have to disagree with the statement that captan hasn't
formed *malignant* tumors in experimental animals; see also:

http://www.nohsc.gov.au/OHSInformati.../az/Captan.htm

"A more recent review of two studies (the NCI Captan Rat and Mouse
Studies) on the carcinogenicity of the fungicide captan was based on
examination of the histological sections. The results and conclusions
indicate that captan is highly carcinogenic in rats and mice. Neoplasms at
all sites, as well as malignant neoplasms, were increased in both low- and
high-dose captan-treated male and female rats." Still, that's not enough
to convince IARC that it's a human carcinogen; I've waded through IARC
standards, working with chromium compounds, and their bar is set pretty
darned high. By the time IARC says it's a human carcinogen, you can bet
the house they've done their homework.

However, the EPA only classifies it as "B2," or "probable human
carcinogen." Their full report is at:

www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/0120red.pdf

A quick review of the bibliography shows that only two studies
into the carcinogenic properties of captan in the bibliography are less
than a decade old.

Is it a strong carcinogen? No. I suspect the main reasons for
concern are that people exposed to large quantities of it- field
application and harvesting- may be subject to its effects, which also may
include birth defects. How well these high test concentrations (300 mg/kg)
in a small sample set of animals compares with much lower doses in a human
population of millions are poorly quantified. The way the EPA looks at it
is to examine how many strawberries (for example) a person might consume
if they had a particular fondness for the drupe. And would consuming
pounds and pounds of captan-treated strawberries every month cause more
than a one-in-a-million lifetime chance of cancer?

I'd prefer to err on the side of safety, since there has
historically been a long record of safety testing paid for by the company
that manufactures these compounds that later demonstrate more ominous
effects in studies without the same financial controls at the reins. In
the "good old days," captan salesmen used to consume a spoonful of their
product to demonstrate its safety. No longer.

The e-mail address in the header doesn't work. Sorry.


-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ