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Old 10-07-2004, 09:07 PM
Sirius631
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

Hi all,

Just thought I'd let yuo know about a rural plot that I'm investigating.
Hopefully I can buy it and build an environmentally friendly house on it, with
enough space to grow significantly more of my own food.

I had seen this ruin for many years, on my way to work, just to the north east
of junction 4 on the M54 in Shropshire, England. It has fallen into greater
delapidation in recent times, having only the two end walls remaining standing.
My initial investigations yielded nothing, but recently I enquired at a nearby
farm and, as it turns out, all the land around is owned by Lord Stafford. I now
have a 'phone number for his land agent, whom I intend to call on Monday, to
see if they are open to offers.

If I can buy the plot, I would demolish the ruin and use the bricks to form a
solid core to a glass atrium/straw bale house. The plot is only 1 mile away
from work, as opposed to 25 and, when complete I'd sell the car and cycle to
work. Then again, I hate work.

Maybe I could interest others to join me in forming a mini permaculture
community.


David Lloyd
So open-minded - my brains dribbled out.
  #2   Report Post  
Old 11-07-2004, 11:03 PM
Pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

Hi David
Good luck with his Lordship.
I'd like to bet he wants top money for it ...though I'd also bet he doesn't
know where it is till his "agent" tells him he owns it.
Sometimes these parcels of land are in some old family trust started waaay
back.

We often see old farmhouses which have just been abandoned, and I fantasize
about how they'd make a great home ... sometimes the land has been bought by
another farmer or maybe the parents lived there and the kids have grown and
live in another house on the property somewhere, so they let Mum's old place
just dissolve back into the earth .... such a shame sometimes ... huge thick
stone walls perfect for passive control over the temperature inside, not
like our modern day "boxes".

I see Lord Stafford is the patron ??(is that the right term) of the Lord
Stafford awards, given for innovation and collaboration between business and
Uni's ...maybe he's forward thinking enough to look favourably on a
permaculture community ...as long as it doesn't encroach on his "pheasant
shooting woods"

Best of luck with it.

"Sirius631" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Just thought I'd let yuo know about a rural plot that I'm investigating.
Hopefully I can buy it and build an environmentally friendly house on it,

with
enough space to grow significantly more of my own food.

I had seen this ruin for many years, on my way to work, just to the north

east
of junction 4 on the M54 in Shropshire, England. It has fallen into

greater
delapidation in recent times, having only the two end walls remaining

standing.
My initial investigations yielded nothing, but recently I enquired at a

nearby
farm and, as it turns out, all the land around is owned by Lord Stafford.

I now
have a 'phone number for his land agent, whom I intend to call on Monday,

to
see if they are open to offers.

If I can buy the plot, I would demolish the ruin and use the bricks to

form a
solid core to a glass atrium/straw bale house. The plot is only 1 mile

away
from work, as opposed to 25 and, when complete I'd sell the car and cycle

to
work. Then again, I hate work.

Maybe I could interest others to join me in forming a mini permaculture
community

David Lloyd
So open-minded - my brains dribbled out.



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Old 12-07-2004, 01:02 AM
Fran
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

"Pete" wrote in message
...

We often see old farmhouses which have just been abandoned, and I

fantasize
about how they'd make a great home ... sometimes the land has been bought

by
another farmer or maybe the parents lived there and the kids have grown

and
live in another house on the property somewhere, so they let Mum's old

place
just dissolve back into the earth .... such a shame sometimes ... huge

thick
stone walls perfect for passive control over the temperature inside, not
like our modern day "boxes".


Sigh! And you are in just the right State to find them too Pete. We spent
a brief holiday in the Clare valley and in our tours found several of just
such ruins you described. One we were quite serious about. I liked the
fact that it had a cellar , dunno what Himself liked; perhaps it was the
lovely mellow colour of the sturdy stone walls, or the way it settled into
the landscape or the great soil - yep it actually had good soil, which I'd
rather thought was rare in your neck of the woods.

Sigh. We have another trip coming up over your way and no doubt we'll see
even more of them this time round since we are going further north.


  #4   Report Post  
Old 12-07-2004, 11:02 AM
Pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

Will you stop that sighing .... :-)
Further North than the Claire valley ? you'd be getting close to Goyders
line .. an imaginary line which supposedly denotes good/bad country ...
inside the line is supposed to be good rainfall and outside ..well not ..
I'll bet there are a lot of old abandoned farm houses just outside "the
line" who's original owners left for greener pastures after almost dying
while trying to make a go of their "allotment".

Some of those old places could tell a few stories I'm sure.

"Fran" wrote in message
...
"Pete" wrote in message
...

We often see old farmhouses which have just been abandoned, and I

fantasize
about how they'd make a great home ... sometimes the land has been

bought
by
another farmer or maybe the parents lived there and the kids have grown

and
live in another house on the property somewhere, so they let Mum's old

place
just dissolve back into the earth .... such a shame sometimes ... huge

thick
stone walls perfect for passive control over the temperature inside, not
like our modern day "boxes".


Sigh! And you are in just the right State to find them too Pete. We

spent
a brief holiday in the Clare valley and in our tours found several of just
such ruins you described. One we were quite serious about. I liked the
fact that it had a cellar , dunno what Himself liked; perhaps it was the
lovely mellow colour of the sturdy stone walls, or the way it settled into
the landscape or the great soil - yep it actually had good soil, which I'd
rather thought was rare in your neck of the woods.

Sigh. We have another trip coming up over your way and no doubt we'll see
even more of them this time round since we are going further north.




  #5   Report Post  
Old 12-07-2004, 10:02 PM
david lloyd
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

Hi Pete,

Just taken a bit of time to do a bit more thinking how to finance the
purchase. If the stupid land prices in the UK are anything to go by, even
this tree and brick encrusted plot will cost the proverbial arm and leg.
I'll have to get my questions lined up, like what the water supply to the
property was like. Please let it be a well. Had a word with the manager of
the nearby farm and apparently Lord Stafford seams to take an active
interest in the farming. I know it will pale into insignificance against the
size of farms in Australia but to say Lord Stafford's land 'stretches as far
as the eye can see' is an understatement.

Hope I don't confuse anyone with the cange of addi, I've just gone on
broadband. I was fed up by the long download times for Microswiz updates,
which cost me the other arm and leg on dial-up. I'll have to see about
setting up an alias to avoid spam.

Regards,
David (was sirius631)


Hope I don't confuse
"Pete" wrote in message
...
Hi David
Good luck with his Lordship.
I'd like to bet he wants top money for it ...though I'd also bet he

doesn't
know where it is till his "agent" tells him he owns it.
Sometimes these parcels of land are in some old family trust started waaay
back.

We often see old farmhouses which have just been abandoned, and I

fantasize
about how they'd make a great home ... sometimes the land has been bought

by
another farmer or maybe the parents lived there and the kids have grown

and
live in another house on the property somewhere, so they let Mum's old

place
just dissolve back into the earth .... such a shame sometimes ... huge

thick
stone walls perfect for passive control over the temperature inside, not
like our modern day "boxes".

I see Lord Stafford is the patron ??(is that the right term) of the Lord
Stafford awards, given for innovation and collaboration between business

and
Uni's ...maybe he's forward thinking enough to look favourably on a
permaculture community ...as long as it doesn't encroach on his "pheasant
shooting woods"

Best of luck with it.

"Sirius631" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Just thought I'd let yuo know about a rural plot that I'm investigating.
Hopefully I can buy it and build an environmentally friendly house on

it,
with
enough space to grow significantly more of my own food.

I had seen this ruin for many years, on my way to work, just to the

north
east
of junction 4 on the M54 in Shropshire, England. It has fallen into

greater
delapidation in recent times, having only the two end walls remaining

standing.
My initial investigations yielded nothing, but recently I enquired at a

nearby
farm and, as it turns out, all the land around is owned by Lord

Stafford.
I now
have a 'phone number for his land agent, whom I intend to call on

Monday,
to
see if they are open to offers.

If I can buy the plot, I would demolish the ruin and use the bricks to

form a
solid core to a glass atrium/straw bale house. The plot is only 1 mile

away
from work, as opposed to 25 and, when complete I'd sell the car and

cycle
to
work. Then again, I hate work.

Maybe I could interest others to join me in forming a mini permaculture
community

David Lloyd
So open-minded - my brains dribbled out.







  #6   Report Post  
Old 13-07-2004, 02:03 AM
Janet Baraclough..
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

The message
from "david lloyd" contains these words:

Hi Pete,


Just taken a bit of time to do a bit more thinking how to finance the
purchase. If the stupid land prices in the UK are anything to go by, even
this tree and brick encrusted plot will cost the proverbial arm and leg.
I'll have to get my questions lined up, like what the water supply to the
property was like. Please let it be a well. Had a word with the manager of
the nearby farm and apparently Lord Stafford seams to take an active
interest in the farming. I know it will pale into insignificance against the
size of farms in Australia but to say Lord Stafford's land 'stretches as far
as the eye can see' is an understatement.


There's a few other things to bear in mind.

LS may not be prepared (or able) to interrupt his estate by selling a
small freehold area in the middle; if so, consider negotiating a
leasehold instead.

Even large landholders don't always control whether or not
land/derelict property they own can have a new house built on it. You
need to find out about the Local Plan,(council planning dept), is it in
greenbelt, and when the property was last occupied by people. (This can
determine whether it can be redeveloped). Some areas, some ruins and
some farm land are designated for no housing development, and if that's
the case LS won't have any say.

Wells are a mixed blessing; over time they are vulnerable to changing
circumstances above and below ground and planning permission is only
possible if there's a water supply (either well, spring or mains) that
meets modern regulations.

Janet (Scotland)
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Old 13-07-2004, 06:03 AM
Pinky
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

Hi David,

"Sirius631" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Just thought I'd let yuo know about a rural plot that I'm investigating.
Hopefully I can buy it and build an environmentally friendly house on it,

with
enough space to grow significantly more of my own food.

snip
If I can buy the plot, I would demolish the ruin and use the bricks to

form a
solid core to a glass atrium/straw bale house. The plot is only 1 mile

away
from work, as opposed to 25 and, when complete I'd sell the car and cycle

to
work. Then again, I hate work.

Maybe I could interest others to join me in forming a mini permaculture
community.

David Lloyd
So open-minded - my brains dribbled out.


Good luck in your talks with Lord S's agent )
Are there many strawbale houses in your area? I ask because then you could
get an idea of how they hold up in cold, wet climates - I am assuming that
Shropshire is not the tropics of england ;o)
Will you be able to do or have you done a strawbale course? They're
(strawbale houses) a fantastic, less expensive building option.
Let us know how it went )

Andrea


  #8   Report Post  
Old 13-07-2004, 02:03 PM
Fran
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

"Pete" wrote in message
...
Will you stop that sighing .... :-)
Further North than the Claire valley ? you'd be getting close to Goyders
line .. an imaginary line which supposedly denotes good/bad country ...
inside the line is supposed to be good rainfall and outside ..well not ..


Yes indeed. Up there! Coming down the Strezlecki track from Innaminka.

I'll bet there are a lot of old abandoned farm houses just outside "the
line" who's original owners left for greener pastures after almost dying
while trying to make a go of their "allotment".

Some of those old places could tell a few stories I'm sure.


Yes. I hope to pick up some good local history books as I pass through.
I'm a sucker for local history as I always find it so fascinating.



  #9   Report Post  
Old 13-07-2004, 02:03 PM
Fran
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

"david lloyd" wrote in message

Just taken a bit of time to do a bit more thinking how to finance the
purchase. If the stupid land prices in the UK are anything to go by, even
this tree and brick encrusted plot will cost the proverbial arm and leg.
I'll have to get my questions lined up, like what the water supply to the
property was like. Please let it be a well. Had a word with the manager of
the nearby farm and apparently Lord Stafford seams to take an active
interest in the farming. I know it will pale into insignificance against

the
size of farms in Australia but to say Lord Stafford's land 'stretches as

far
as the eye can see' is an understatement.


But the difference is that to make a living on the land is Oz, one needs a
LOT of it. John Seymour's old book about "Independence on 5 acres" (or
whatever the nearly like that title may be) really is a lot closer to the
mark for the UK. A lot of the old land plans here reveal a multitude of 5
acre plots of land - made up by colonisers from Britain who had no idea how
crappy some of our country/soil really was.

You never know, Lord thingummy might be so interested in the land that he'd
liek to see a small bit of it reurrected and used well. You can but try.

Hope I don't confuse anyone with the cange of addi, I've just gone on
broadband. I was fed up by the long download times for Microswiz updates,
which cost me the other arm and leg on dial-up. I'll have to see about
setting up an alias to avoid spam.


We're very easily confused here but given that you've both followed the
thread and remain identified by your first name and told us of the change, I
think we can cope just this once :-))


  #10   Report Post  
Old 13-07-2004, 05:11 PM
Janet Baraclough..
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope

The message
from "Pinky" contains these words:

Are there many strawbale houses in your area? I ask because then you could
get an idea of how they hold up in cold, wet climates - I am assuming that
Shropshire is not the tropics of england ;o)
Will you be able to do or have you done a strawbale course? They're
(strawbale houses) a fantastic, less expensive building option.


There are a few being built in Britain now. I bet like me David and
Graham have been hooked on a great TV series ongoing here, called Grand
Designs, following some ambitious alternative newbuilds from concept to
completion (or not, in some cases...). Don't miss it if it's syndicated
elsewhere; there's a book-of-the-series available too. One was a
strawbale house; it was wonderful but iirc the cost was not very
different from conventional build. By far the cheapest was a green-wood
construction house designed and built for himself by a coppice woodland
worker, using trees he selected and felled from his woods.

So far as wet-climate/straw goes, a strawbale construction would need
similar care to cob, a very old traditional English construction system,
using (iirc) a mash of straw, mud, cow manure and smallish stones, with
a smoothed-over outer-face coated with lime. If cob walls are kept dry,
particularly at the top and bottom, they last centuries. The roofs were
low, steep and thatched with straw, (high insulation), rammed so tight
and thick that rain rolls off. Replacement straw-thatching is still
practised on those buildings today; as seen on many chocolate boxes and
jigsaws :-). Care has to be taken to keep out birds and rodents who are
attracted to straw and can find the tiniest gap or shrinkage and loosen
it for their own housing. I imagine they might be a future hassle with
strawbale buildings too.

Janet.







Janet.


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Old 13-07-2004, 11:04 PM
david lloyd
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope


"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message
...
The message
from "Pinky" contains these words:

Are there many strawbale houses in your area? I ask because then you

could
get an idea of how they hold up in cold, wet climates - I am assuming

that
Shropshire is not the tropics of england ;o)
Will you be able to do or have you done a strawbale course? They're
(strawbale houses) a fantastic, less expensive building option.


There are a few being built in Britain now. I bet like me David and
Graham have been hooked on a great TV series ongoing here, called Grand
Designs, following some ambitious alternative newbuilds from concept to
completion (or not, in some cases...). Don't miss it if it's syndicated
elsewhere; there's a book-of-the-series available too. One was a
strawbale house; it was wonderful but iirc the cost was not very
different from conventional build. By far the cheapest was a green-wood
construction house designed and built for himself by a coppice woodland
worker, using trees he selected and felled from his woods.

So far as wet-climate/straw goes, a strawbale construction would need
similar care to cob, a very old traditional English construction system,
using (iirc) a mash of straw, mud, cow manure and smallish stones, with
a smoothed-over outer-face coated with lime. If cob walls are kept dry,
particularly at the top and bottom, they last centuries. The roofs were
low, steep and thatched with straw, (high insulation), rammed so tight
and thick that rain rolls off. Replacement straw-thatching is still
practised on those buildings today; as seen on many chocolate boxes and
jigsaws :-). Care has to be taken to keep out birds and rodents who are
attracted to straw and can find the tiniest gap or shrinkage and loosen
it for their own housing. I imagine they might be a future hassle with
strawbale buildings too.

Janet.

Yes, I saw the Grand Designs featuring Ben Law's house. For those who did

not/could not see it, the house had straw bale as the inner leaf, not using
it as a structural element. The structure and cladding was all sweet
chestnut, havested from his own woodland. The only way Ben got his planning
permission was to have the property tide to his woodland products business.
If he sold the business, the house would have to be dismantled.

From what I've read and heard, there should be no problem with straw bale
and lime render. They used to say that a cob building should have good a
good hat and good boots. The same goes for straw and lime.

Regards,
David.


  #12   Report Post  
Old 14-07-2004, 12:10 AM
Graham Burnett
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope


"david lloyd" wrote in message
. uk...

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in

message
...
The message
from "Pinky" contains these words:

Are there many strawbale houses in your area? I ask because then you

could
get an idea of how they hold up in cold, wet climates - I am assuming

that
Shropshire is not the tropics of england ;o)
Will you be able to do or have you done a strawbale course? They're
(strawbale houses) a fantastic, less expensive building option.


There are a few being built in Britain now. I bet like me David and
Graham have been hooked on a great TV series ongoing here, called Grand
Designs, following some ambitious alternative newbuilds from concept to
completion (or not, in some cases...). Don't miss it if it's syndicated
elsewhere; there's a book-of-the-series available too. One was a
strawbale house; it was wonderful but iirc the cost was not very
different from conventional build. By far the cheapest was a green-wood
construction house designed and built for himself by a coppice woodland
worker, using trees he selected and felled from his woods.

So far as wet-climate/straw goes, a strawbale construction would need
similar care to cob, a very old traditional English construction system,
using (iirc) a mash of straw, mud, cow manure and smallish stones, with
a smoothed-over outer-face coated with lime. If cob walls are kept dry,
particularly at the top and bottom, they last centuries. The roofs were
low, steep and thatched with straw, (high insulation), rammed so tight
and thick that rain rolls off. Replacement straw-thatching is still
practised on those buildings today; as seen on many chocolate boxes and
jigsaws :-). Care has to be taken to keep out birds and rodents who are
attracted to straw and can find the tiniest gap or shrinkage and loosen
it for their own housing. I imagine they might be a future hassle with
strawbale buildings too.

Janet.

Yes, I saw the Grand Designs featuring Ben Law's house. For those who

did
not/could not see it, the house had straw bale as the inner leaf, not

using
it as a structural element. The structure and cladding was all sweet
chestnut, havested from his own woodland. The only way Ben got his

planning
permission was to have the property tide to his woodland products

business.
If he sold the business, the house would have to be dismantled.

From what I've read and heard, there should be no problem with straw bale
and lime render. They used to say that a cob building should have good a
good hat and good boots. The same goes for straw and lime.


There is some stuff about Ben's place at the Permaculture Magazine website
http://www.permaculture.co.uk/info/Grand%20Designs.html
also on the Channel 4 website
http://www.channel4.com/life/microsi...ns/sussex.html


We also show the video of Grand Designs on Ben's place on our permaculture
Intro courses, where it always goes down well!

Cheers Graham


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release Date: 02/07/2004


  #13   Report Post  
Old 14-07-2004, 12:02 PM
Pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great ruin - hope to re-develope


"Fran" wrote in message
...
sniiiipages

I hope to pick up some good local history books as I pass through.
I'm a sucker for local history as I always find it so fascinating.


When I'm feeling flushed wiv munny I'll send you a copy of our local history
book ...even I get a mention in it .. no not under old ruins either.:-)


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