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help this old apple tree



 
 
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  #1  
Old 16-04-2003, 06:44 AM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default help this old apple tree

Today I cut the dead top out of an old apple tree. It had a trunk of 2
feet diameter
but was much bigger because half of the trunk had split and fallen over
some
years ago. And where it had split, was applied some tar. But I cut a
porton of
that trunk away and found to my horror that the trunk was nearly hollow
with
ants and with some large grub insect. Whether these insects were the
cause of
the hollowness, I do not know.

One good news is that the tree is still alive and has new growth all
around.

My question is this. Can such a tree be saved? Is there some insecticide
to
throw into that hollow trunk? Or is it better not waste any time on it
and
plant an new tree nearby in anticipation of its final demise.

One thought occurred to me was to buy gallons of tar patch and just fill

up that trunk hole. But since it did not work before why should it work
now?

I guess what I am asking is whether anyone has had a similar experience
with an old apple tree and has found a clever way of keep it alive much
longer.

I am curious if this old tree will yield any apples this year. And that
would
certainly give me the incentive to find a way to save it as long as
possible.

Finally. I have noticed on apple trees damaged that they seem to find
new
sucker shoots off the old and dying trunk. Sort of like a clone. Sort of
like
elm or locust trees cut down and a new tree comes from the old roots.
So I wonder if some apple trees are say 200 or 300 years old by the
owner
keeping new clones from the dead and dying rest of the tree.

Any thoughts from apple experts?

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

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  #2  
Old 20-04-2003, 03:20 AM
Sean Houtman
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Default help this old apple tree

From: Archimedes Plutonium


snip a bit of prelude


My question is this. Can such a tree be saved? Is there some insecticide
to
throw into that hollow trunk? Or is it better not waste any time on it
and
plant an new tree nearby in anticipation of its final demise.


If it is stil alive, there is hope.


One thought occurred to me was to buy gallons of tar patch and just fill

up that trunk hole. But since it did not work before why should it work
now?


Look up some books by Alex Shigo, in particular "A New Tree Biology..." where
you can learn a whole lot about tree health.


I guess what I am asking is whether anyone has had a similar experience
with an old apple tree and has found a clever way of keep it alive much
longer.


Shigo did a whole lot of practical research on this subject.


I am curious if this old tree will yield any apples this year. And that
would
certainly give me the incentive to find a way to save it as long as
possible.


Did it flower? If it did, it will likely bear fruit. This assumes that
flowering time for apples in your area has arrived.


Finally. I have noticed on apple trees damaged that they seem to find
new
sucker shoots off the old and dying trunk. Sort of like a clone. Sort of
like
elm or locust trees cut down and a new tree comes from the old roots.
So I wonder if some apple trees are say 200 or 300 years old by the
owner
keeping new clones from the dead and dying rest of the tree.

Any thoughts from apple experts?


Sloan(e) has some illustrations in one of his books about wood or trees or
something, I have forgotten his first name, (Eric?) as well as the titles of
his books. What you describe is an established method of propagation of apples.

Sean



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  #3  
Old 20-04-2003, 07:44 AM
P van Rijckevorsel
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Default help this old apple tree

Sean Houtman schreef
Look up some books by Alex Shigo, in particular "A New Tree Biology..."

where you can learn a whole lot about tree health.

+ + +
Not sure if this applies here. I am glad enough to have worked through "A
New Tree Biology" (essentially a collection of black and white pictures with
long captions/short texts), but it is hard work, what with Shigo's tendency
to make sweeping statements and his sloppyness in doing so.

Actually Shigo feels that when it is time for a tree to die it should be
allowed to do so. What does come forward from Shigo's work is that wounds
into sound wood should be avoided as much as possible and kept as small as
possible.

In general it should be a good idea to remove as much rotting wood from a
tree as possible, but not at the cost of cutting into sound wood. So the
general advice is to get all the loose stuff out of the tree.

+ + +
Any thoughts from apple experts?


Sloan(e) has some illustrations in one of his books about wood or trees or

something, I have forgotten his first name, (Eric?) as well as the titles of
his books. What you describe is an established method of propagation of
apples.

Sean


+ + +
Perhaps:
Eric Sloane
"A reverence for wood"
This has a bit of stuff on apples in american folklore

PvR










  #4  
Old 20-04-2003, 08:20 PM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default help this old apple tree



P van Rijckevorsel wrote:

Sean Houtman schreef
Look up some books by Alex Shigo, in particular "A New Tree Biology..."

where you can learn a whole lot about tree health.

+ + +
Not sure if this applies here. I am glad enough to have worked through "A
New Tree Biology" (essentially a collection of black and white pictures with
long captions/short texts), but it is hard work, what with Shigo's tendency
to make sweeping statements and his sloppyness in doing so.


Funny how apply and apples are almost identical


Actually Shigo feels that when it is time for a tree to die it should be
allowed to do so. What does come forward from Shigo's work is that wounds
into sound wood should be avoided as much as possible and kept as small as
possible.

In general it should be a good idea to remove as much rotting wood from a
tree as possible, but not at the cost of cutting into sound wood. So the
general advice is to get all the loose stuff out of the tree.


What I was hoping for information on how to deal with this apple tree in that
it is missing its core. Something has eaten away the entire core of the trunk
at ground level. So the only thing holding up the entire tree is 3/4 of the
outer
layer where 1/4 is gone and the entire core is gone.

What I was hoping is information as to whether a hollow trunk missing its
core can survive with some new green shoot eventually making a new
healthy trunk.

I wonder if experienced apple growers when they are confronted with such a tree

whether they cut it down or whether they just coax it along.

I wonder whether the ants I see in the hollow trunk are helping the tree from
other bad insects or whether the ants are speeding up the death.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

  #5  
Old 20-04-2003, 08:45 PM
P van Rijckevorsel
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Default help this old apple tree

Archimedes Plutonium schreef
Funny how apply and apples are almost identical


+ + +
Yes, a good example of how dangerous it is to go by appearences.
The "apply" is from the Latin (applicare), perhaps through the French
("appliquer") , while "apple" is from the OE (cf Dutch "appel", German
"Apfel"). These words have nothing in common except parts of the spelling.

PvR




  #6  
Old 20-04-2003, 08:45 PM
P van Rijckevorsel
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Default help this old apple tree

Archimedes Plutonium schreef
What I was hoping for information on how to deal with this apple tree in

that it is missing its core. Something has eaten away the entire core of the
trunk at ground level. So the only thing holding up the entire tree is 3/4
of the outer layer where 1/4 is gone and the entire core is gone.

+ + +
That is simple mechanics. Hollowness does not matter much.
If you sink a pipe in a footing of concrete (so that it will stand firm) it
will be quite strong, especially if it has sufficient diameter. In fact a
tower may well be a hollow cylinder and the saying is "a tower of strength".
The missing outer part may matter, but this will depend on the direction the
wind blows.
PvR






  #7  
Old 20-04-2003, 10:32 PM
Iris Cohen
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Default help this old apple tree

For heaven's sake chop the thing down & put it out of its misery. You don't
know what it is harboring that will infect your other trees.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)
 




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