On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

Las Vegas pays residents to get rid of their lawns... Saves A LOT of water...

It is the water district that pays for removal of lawns. I took 2/3 of
my lawn out and they sent me a check. Just followed the rules, etc.

I now only have about 300 s.f. of turf for my African hound dog to
use. It's been a very successful program.

...."Upgrade existing grass to water-smart landscaping and receive a
rebate of up to $1.50 per square foot of grass converted to
xeriscape."

http://www.lvvwd.com/conservation/ws_rebates.html

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Nehmo
wrote:


The habitat of many animals is disturbed by mowing.

If I don't mow for a while, I check for rabbits before mowing, and
scare them away until I'm done.

If I don't mow wicked witch of the HOA complains.

On Jun 16, 10:26�pm, dpb wrote:
harry wrote:
On Jun 16, 10:00 pm, "Don Phillipson" wrote:
"Nehmo" wrote in message

....

The mania about cutting grass has reached insanity. Many
municipalities in the US have laws forcing people to mow their lawns,
and people actually go to jail for not cutting their grass.
This seems interesting because illegal in most countries with Anglo-
Saxon-type laws. (Habeas Corpus forbids detention without
charge, and disobeying a bylaw is an offence but not a crime.)

In Canada, where bylaws require that grass be mowed,
non-compliant lawns are mowed by the municipality (after
warning notice) and the property owner billed for this service.
(Payment is enforced by the same mechanisms that require
payment of property taxes.)

...
Indeed, it would be the most extreme instance and I doubt even then any
jail sentence would be for the actual offense but instead for something
like contempt...

There are compliance rules and jurisidictions do have facility to
collect for taking care of out-of-hand situations, yes...generally by
the time it gets that far, that's a "thankfully" appended to that by
neighbors, etc., ...

Strewth, you really live in a police state don't you!

I'd be pretty comfortable in thinking there are similar ordinances in
place on that side of ye olde ponde, too...

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not in the UK. Germany perhaps. Hangover from the Hitler
days................

Nehmo wrote:

. The EPA states mowing causes 5% of air pollution
http://www.peoplepoweredmachines.com...nvironment.htm . Reducing
the use of these engines reduces pollution of many types.

Most mowing is in urban areas, where pollution is the worst and where
most people breathe.

The habitat of many animals is disturbed by mowing.

I live in the middle of Phoenix and have clover lawns that I cut with
a hand push mower three days a week. Some of my neighbors use sheep,
goats, or lamas for their lawns. How are we doing?

On Jun 16, 5:00 pm, "Don Phillipson" wrote:
"Nehmo" wrote in message

...

The mania about cutting grass has reached insanity. Many
municipalities in the US have laws forcing people to mow their lawns,
and people actually go to jail for not cutting their grass.

This seems interesting because illegal in most countries with Anglo-
Saxon-type laws. (Habeas Corpus forbids detention without
charge, and disobeying a bylaw is an offence but not a crime.)

Of course you can go to jail in the US for not mowing your grass.
There are not just bylaws in some HOA areas, but also actual municipal
codes in many cases. Just try letting your yard get overgrown in
clear violation thereof, get hauled into municipal court, get fined
and ordered to rectify it, then refuse to pay the fine and remedy
it. See what happens. You can in fact face jail time.



In Canada, where bylaws require that grass be mowed,
non-compliant lawns are mowed by the municipality (after
warning notice) and the property owner billed for this service.
(Payment is enforced by the same mechanisms that require
payment of property taxes.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Jun 17, 5:42*am, "larry moe 'n curly"
wrote:
Nehmo wrote:

. The EPA states mowing causes 5% of air pollution
http://www.peoplepoweredmachines.com...nvironment.htm. Reducing
the use of these engines reduces pollution of many types.

Most mowing is in urban areas, where pollution is the worst and where
most people breathe.

The habitat of many animals is disturbed by mowing.

I live in the middle of Phoenix and have clover lawns that I cut with
a hand push mower three days a week. *Some of my neighbors use sheep,
goats, or lamas for their lawns. *How are we doing?

Lamas smoke grass; Llamas eat grass.

I have to remember that one next time the "Land of the free" agument
returns...LOL


wrote in message
...
Of course you can go to jail in the US for not mowing your grass.
There are not just bylaws in some HOA areas, but also actual municipal
codes in many cases. Just try letting your yard get overgrown in
clear violation thereof, get hauled into municipal court, get fined
and ordered to rectify it, then refuse to pay the fine and remedy
it. See what happens. You can in fact face jail time.


On Jun 16, 5:00 pm, "Don Phillipson" wrote:
"Nehmo" wrote in message

...

The mania about cutting grass has reached insanity. Many
municipalities in the US have laws forcing people to mow their lawns,
and people actually go to jail for not cutting their grass.

This seems interesting because illegal in most countries with Anglo-
Saxon-type laws. (Habeas Corpus forbids detention without
charge, and disobeying a bylaw is an offence but not a crime.)


In Canada, where bylaws require that grass be mowed,
non-compliant lawns are mowed by the municipality (after
warning notice) and the property owner billed for this service.
(Payment is enforced by the same mechanisms that require
payment of property taxes.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Jun 17, 8:53*am, wrote:
On Jun 16, 5:00 pm, "Don Phillipson" wrote:

"Nehmo" wrote in message

....

The mania about cutting grass has reached insanity. Many
municipalities in the US have laws forcing people to mow their lawns,
and people actually go to jail for not cutting their grass.

This seems interesting because illegal in most countries with Anglo-
Saxon-type laws. * (Habeas Corpus forbids detention without
charge, and disobeying a bylaw is an offence but not a crime.)

Of course you can go to jail in the US for not mowing your grass.
There are not just bylaws in some HOA areas, but also actual municipal
codes in many cases. * Just try letting your yard get overgrown in
clear violation thereof, get hauled into municipal court, get fined
and ordered to rectify it, then refuse to pay the fine and remedy
it. * See what happens. * You can in fact face jail time.


Can you offer a citation for someone who has, in fact, done jail time
for not mowing their lawn? AFAIK, municipalities are limited to
having the work done and billing the homeowner. If the bill isn't
paid it's the same as not paying taxes; the land can be sold at
auction.

On Jun 17, 12:59*pm, keith wrote:
On Jun 17, 8:53*am, wrote:





On Jun 16, 5:00 pm, "Don Phillipson" wrote:

"Nehmo" wrote in message

....

The mania about cutting grass has reached insanity. Many
municipalities in the US have laws forcing people to mow their lawns,
and people actually go to jail for not cutting their grass.

This seems interesting because illegal in most countries with Anglo-
Saxon-type laws. * (Habeas Corpus forbids detention without
charge, and disobeying a bylaw is an offence but not a crime.)

Of course you can go to jail in the US for not mowing your grass.
There are not just bylaws in some HOA areas, but also actual municipal
codes in many cases. * Just try letting your yard get overgrown in
clear violation thereof, get hauled into municipal court, get fined
and ordered to rectify it, then refuse to pay the fine and remedy
it. * See what happens. * You can in fact face jail time.

Can you offer a citation for someone who has, in fact, done jail time
for not mowing their lawn? *AFAIK, municipalities are limited to
having the work done and billing the homeowner. *If the bill isn't
paid it's the same as not paying taxes; the land can be sold at
auction.

In Kansas City Kansas, a so-called Code Violation is a misdemeanor
punishable by up to 6 months in jail. The first time fine, even if the
situation is corrected, is typically $149.10. (but sometimes is
$249.10. $49.10 is court cost) If you don't pay or don't show up for
court, you go to jail. I'm personally familiar with the situation in
that city (1), but with a short search, I couldn't find a good link. I
did find one for Prairie Village, Kansas (part of the KC metro)
http://www.pvkansas.com/codes/violations.shtml :
"If violations are not corrected in the time determined by the Code
Enforcement Officer, a Notice to Appear in Municipal Court (ticket)
may be issued. When this occurs, the owner/resident must appear in
Court.
Upon conviction in Municipal Court, violators may be required to pay
fines and/or serve time in jail."

These laws are local, so the penalty and practices vary. But yes,
without a doubt, people are jailed for caring for their lawn
differently than what some other people want. I consider this a first
amendment violation, an infringement of freedom of expression.

(1) I watched several municipal Code Violation "trials". The defendant
never won.

By your own statements, you cannot go to jail for long grass or "code
violation" and your first sentence contradicts further statements posted by
you.


You can go to jail for not complying with authority demands or violating
court orders and such.


"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
In Kansas City Kansas, a so-called Code Violation is a misdemeanor
punishable by up to 6 months in jail. The first time fine, even if the
situation is corrected, is typically $149.10. (but sometimes is
$249.10. $49.10 is court cost) If you don't pay or don't show up for
court, you go to jail. I'm personally familiar with the situation in
that city (1), but with a short search, I couldn't find a good link. I
did find one for Prairie Village, Kansas (part of the KC metro)
http://www.pvkansas.com/codes/violations.shtml :
"If violations are not corrected in the time determined by the Code
Enforcement Officer, a Notice to Appear in Municipal Court (ticket)
may be issued. When this occurs, the owner/resident must appear in
Court.
Upon conviction in Municipal Court, violators may be required to pay
fines and/or serve time in jail."

These laws are local, so the penalty and practices vary. But yes,
without a doubt, people are jailed for caring for their lawn
differently than what some other people want. I consider this a first
amendment violation, an infringement of freedom of expression.

(1) I watched several municipal Code Violation "trials". The defendant
never won.

On Jun 17, 7:33*pm, Nehmo wrote:
On Jun 17, 12:59*pm, keith wrote:



On Jun 17, 8:53*am, wrote:

On Jun 16, 5:00 pm, "Don Phillipson" wrote:

"Nehmo" wrote in message

...

The mania about cutting grass has reached insanity. Many
municipalities in the US have laws forcing people to mow their lawns,
and people actually go to jail for not cutting their grass.

This seems interesting because illegal in most countries with Anglo-
Saxon-type laws. * (Habeas Corpus forbids detention without
charge, and disobeying a bylaw is an offence but not a crime.)

Of course you can go to jail in the US for not mowing your grass.
There are not just bylaws in some HOA areas, but also actual municipal
codes in many cases. * Just try letting your yard get overgrown in
clear violation thereof, get hauled into municipal court, get fined
and ordered to rectify it, then refuse to pay the fine and remedy
it. * See what happens. * You can in fact face jail time.

Can you offer a citation for someone who has, in fact, done jail time
for not mowing their lawn? *AFAIK, municipalities are limited to
having the work done and billing the homeowner. *If the bill isn't
paid it's the same as not paying taxes; the land can be sold at
auction.

In Kansas City Kansas, a so-called Code Violation is a misdemeanor
punishable by up to 6 months in jail. The first time fine, even if the
situation is corrected, is typically $149.10. (but sometimes is
$249.10. $49.10 is court cost) If you don't pay or don't show up for
court, you go to jail. I'm personally familiar with the situation in
that city (1), but with a short search, I couldn't find a good link. I
did find one for Prairie Village, Kansas (part of the KC metro)http://www..pvkansas.com/codes/violations.shtml:
"If violations are not corrected in the time determined by the Code
Enforcement Officer, a Notice to Appear in Municipal Court (ticket)
may be issued. When this occurs, the owner/resident must appear in
Court.
Upon conviction in Municipal Court, violators may be required to pay
fines and/or serve time in jail."

These laws are local, so the penalty and practices vary. But yes,
without a doubt, people are jailed for caring for their lawn
differently than what some other people want. I consider this a first
amendment violation, an infringement of freedom of expression.

(1) I watched several municipal Code Violation "trials". The defendant
never won.


If being summonsed to court via a "ticket" which would indicate a
CIVIL infraction which CAN NOT result in jail time is your example
you clearly have no understanding of the law...

Your example sounds a lot like the people who were jailed were
held in contempt of court either due to their conduct in the hearing
OR for their decision to ignore the order of the court to pay a
fine...

P.S. If the infraction itself was one that would result in jail time
as a potential outcome you would either be arrested by the official
pressing the charge and brought into court for an arraignment where
the charge(s) against you are specified and described and you are
given a chance to enter a plea or you would have been mailed an
official "notice to appear" by the court and provided with an attorney
at the time of the hearing if you did not bring one with you...
You may not be brought before a hearing where the outcome of
being found responsible is jail time without a court appointed lawyer
being available if you can not afford your own attorney...

Also, a criminal offense can be a misdemeanor which only imposes
a FINE when found guilty... Any jail sentence imposed would be a
separate and distinct charge brought against you for failure to comply
with the order of the court to pay the fine levied against you when
you were found guilty and would be the separate result of a
subsequent trial or hearing process...

~~ Evan

Pavel314 wrote:
On Jun 17, 5:42*am, "larry moe 'n curly"
wrote:
Nehmo wrote:

. The EPA states mowing causes 5% of air pollution
http://www.peoplepoweredmachines.com...nvironment.htm. Reducing
the use of these engines reduces pollution of many types.

Most mowing is in urban areas, where pollution is the worst and where
most people breathe.

The habitat of many animals is disturbed by mowing.

I live in the middle of Phoenix and have clover lawns that I cut with
a hand push mower three days a week. *Some of my neighbors use sheep,
goats, or lamas for their lawns. *How are we doing?

Lamas smoke grass; Llamas eat grass.

Thanks. Good mnemonic.

On Jun 17, 10:33*pm, Evan wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:33*pm, Nehmo wrote:





On Jun 17, 12:59*pm, keith wrote:

On Jun 17, 8:53*am, wrote:

On Jun 16, 5:00 pm, "Don Phillipson" wrote:

"Nehmo" wrote in message

...

The mania about cutting grass has reached insanity. Many
municipalities in the US have laws forcing people to mow their lawns,
and people actually go to jail for not cutting their grass.

This seems interesting because illegal in most countries with Anglo-
Saxon-type laws. * (Habeas Corpus forbids detention without
charge, and disobeying a bylaw is an offence but not a crime.)

Of course you can go to jail in the US for not mowing your grass.
There are not just bylaws in some HOA areas, but also actual municipal
codes in many cases. * Just try letting your yard get overgrown in
clear violation thereof, get hauled into municipal court, get fined
and ordered to rectify it, then refuse to pay the fine and remedy
it. * See what happens. * You can in fact face jail time.

Can you offer a citation for someone who has, in fact, done jail time
for not mowing their lawn? *AFAIK, municipalities are limited to
having the work done and billing the homeowner. *If the bill isn't
paid it's the same as not paying taxes; the land can be sold at
auction.

In Kansas City Kansas, a so-called Code Violation is a misdemeanor
punishable by up to 6 months in jail. The first time fine, even if the
situation is corrected, is typically $149.10. (but sometimes is
$249.10. $49.10 is court cost) If you don't pay or don't show up for
court, you go to jail. I'm personally familiar with the situation in
that city (1), but with a short search, I couldn't find a good link. I
did find one for Prairie Village, Kansas (part of the KC metro)http://www.pvkansas.com/codes/violations.shtml:
"If violations are not corrected in the time determined by the Code
Enforcement Officer, a Notice to Appear in Municipal Court (ticket)
may be issued. When this occurs, the owner/resident must appear in
Court.
Upon conviction in Municipal Court, violators may be required to pay
fines and/or serve time in jail."

These laws are local, so the penalty and practices vary. But yes,
without a doubt, people are jailed for caring for their lawn
differently than what some other people want. I consider this a first
amendment violation, an infringement of freedom of expression.

(1) I watched several municipal Code Violation "trials". The defendant
never won.

If being summonsed to court via a "ticket" which would indicate a
CIVIL infraction which CAN NOT result in jail time is your example
you clearly have no understanding of the law...

Your example sounds a lot like the people who were jailed were
held in contempt of court either due to their conduct in the hearing
OR for their decision to ignore the order of the court to pay a
fine...

P.S. *If the infraction itself was one that would result in jail time
as a potential outcome you would either be arrested by the official
pressing the charge and brought into court for an arraignment where
the charge(s) against you are specified and described and you are
given a chance to enter a plea or you would have been mailed an
official "notice to appear" by the court and provided with an attorney
at the time of the hearing if you did not bring one with you...
You may not be brought before a hearing where the outcome of
being found responsible is jail time without a court appointed lawyer
being available if you can not afford your own attorney...

Also, a criminal offense can be a misdemeanor which only imposes
a FINE when found guilty... *Any jail sentence imposed would be a
separate and distinct charge brought against you for failure to comply
with the order of the court to pay the fine levied against you when
you were found guilty and would be the separate result of a
subsequent trial or hearing process...

~~ Evan

I didn't cite any "civil infraction" (I'm not sure what you mean by
that). The code violations in KC, KS, are criminal violations, as I
said, misdemeanors that carry jail time. they are heard by Judge
Roberts or Judge Ryan. Prairie Village, Kansas has similar laws.

There are several ways a defendant can go to jail for a conviction.
True, one way would be the failure to pay a fine. Another, would be to
fail to show up for court, and so on. But a defendant can go to jail,
even directly.

* Nehmo

On Jun 17, 8:23*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
By your own statements, you cannot go to jail for long grass or "code
violation" and your first sentence contradicts further statements posted by
you.

You can go to jail for not complying with authority demands or violating
court orders and such.

"Nehmo" wrote in message

...
In Kansas City Kansas, a so-called Code Violation is a misdemeanor
punishable by up to 6 months in jail. The first time fine, even if the
situation is corrected, is typically $149.10. (but sometimes is
$249.10. $49.10 is court cost) If you don't pay or don't show up for
court, you go to jail. I'm personally familiar with the situation in
that city (1), but with a short search, I couldn't find a good link. I
did find one for Prairie Village, Kansas (part of the KC metro)http://www..pvkansas.com/codes/violations.shtml:
"If violations are not corrected in the time determined by the Code
Enforcement Officer, a Notice to Appear in Municipal Court (ticket)
may be issued. When this occurs, the owner/resident must appear in
Court.
Upon conviction in Municipal Court, violators may be required to pay
fines and/or serve time in jail."

These laws are local, so the penalty and practices vary. But yes,
without a doubt, people are jailed for caring for their lawn
differently than what some other people want. I consider this a first
amendment violation, an infringement of freedom of expression.

(1) I watched several municipal Code Violation "trials". The defendant
never won.

What statement of mine contradicts another? I repeat, a defendant
_can_ go to jail for a code violation in Kansas City, Kansas. I'm sure
in other jurisdictions it's possible too. In some other jurisdictions
perhaps there are no laws on the issue.

` ~ - Nehmo

On Jun 16, 4:47 pm, "EXT" wrote:
"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
A painless method to reduce the human impact on the environment is to
stop mowing grass.
In general, the only reason for mowing is appearance, and often,
considering the location of the grass, the appearance can only be
appreciated by a small number of people. Moreover, once people get
accustomed to seeing uncut lawns, they may consider them preferable.

Unmowed laws allow the tall weeds to survive, some are classified as
noxious.

I realize the ordinances use the word “noxious”, but the word means
harmful. Harmful to what? And which plants are the ordinances
referring to? Actually, there is no list of noxious plants, and
“noxious” isn’t defined legally. It’s just a word the writers of the
ordinances thought sounded good. Thus, there is yet another reason
for the repeal of these laws. They are vague, perhaps
unconstitutionally vague.

The mania about cutting grass has reached insanity. Many
municipalities in the US have laws forcing people to mow their lawns,
and people actually go to jail for not cutting their grass.

But my focus here will be the environmental impact.

The longer the grass, the more leaf area there is per land area.
Therefore, uncut grass would be more efficient per unit land area at
converting CO2 to oxygen – directly reducing the CO2 in the
atmosphere.

Is this your opinion or a tested fact. My experience has shown that a dense
short lawn becomes a sparse tall lawn, with less stems per square area the
result is less plants per square area, there may be more but may be less
leaf area.


It’s hard to measure the gas exchange of grass, and I don’t have any
research with any definite measurements. However, it stands to reason
the more leaf area, the more stomata (openings for gas); then, the
more gas exchange. But you are suggesting that not cutting reduces the
leaf area by making the grass less dense. So, even though individual
plants contain more gas exchange area, there may be less gas exchange
area per land area with not-cutting.

If you compare an abandoned lawn, one that is uncut and unwatered, to
one kept up, then it looks like the abandoned one is less dense. But
the cause probably is the difference in watering – not cutting. I
didn’t take a position on watering or not watering. That’s a different
issue. But I would suppose watering makes the grass more effective at
transforming CO2 to O2.

And my other argument, the pollution caused by cutting grass, is
untouched by a rebuttal about the gas exchange.
Lawn mower engines cause plenty of pollution of many kinds.

Typically lawn care uses either the two cycle engine or a small four
cycle engine. Two cycle engines are inherently more pollution
producing because they don’t have complete cycles as with a four
stroke engine. Some un-burnt petroleum gas is exhausted as pollution.

Small four stroke (stroke or cycle are just different names) engines
are not as bad as two stroke, but they are still very much pollution
causing. They have no anti-pollution measures that a larger car
engines would. There’s plenty of information on this. I already linked
to two sites, and it’s easy to find more.

Additionally, with lawn mowers, pollution is caused by spilt gasoline,
and gas just sitting in gas cans or small tanks that eventually
evaporates into the atmosphere.
Lawn mowers have highly polluting small engines. In one estimate, one
hour of typical mower engine time is equivalent to an 100 mile trip in
an average carhttp://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98532&page=1
. The EPA states mowing causes 5% of air pollution
http://www.peoplepoweredmachines.com...nvironment.htm. Reducing
the use of these engines reduces pollution of many types.

Very generic statement, based on an estimate to prove a point. The worst
mowers are the 2 cycle engines, some are good others not so good, this is
proof of nothing.

How is this "proof of nothing"? Even a good two cycle engine causes
plenty of pollution per unit work. But even if we ban those engines
(which, BTW, have the advantage of being light), the small four cycle
engines don't do well when it comes to emissions either. But we can
substantially reduce the use of both kinds of engines if we don't
mow.
http://www.hikersforcleanair.org/papers/2cycle.html
http://discovermagazine.com/2008/may...-and-youre-out
"Two-stroke engines produce a lot of pollution because the fuel-air
mixture in them gets contaminated with the engine’s lubricating oils.
Simultaneously the combustion chamber draws in the contaminated
mixture as exhaust gases are expelled through an exhaust port. Some of
the fuel and oil gets mixed with the exhaust."

The situation with polluted air is very serious, you know. People and
other animals cough and die.

Most mowing is in urban areas, where pollution is the worst and where
most people breathe.

The habitat of many animals is disturbed by mowing.

Others love short grass, particularly the birds that seek ground insects.

Birds would be better served if we didn't mow. In unmowed forest
preserves birds thrive. In any case, cutting grass is unnatural.

It’s also worth mentioning that numerous accidents, many serious, are
caused directly or indirectly by mowing.

~{|) Nehmo (|}~