Complete newbie here. Glad I found this group

I am a fish freak...into Freshwater aquariums mostly (Malawi's). Until now,
that is a couple of weeks ago when we moved into our new place WITH A
GARDEN.....yahooooo. Our garden is pretty small but I have always wanted a
pond. Can someone please point me to a website or some place of interest to
a person who is "setting up" for the first time.

Would it be better to buy a fibreglass pond and just plant into the ground
or is it better to go the full blown plastering/wire mesh route. Pro's Cons?

Any pointers on where to start would be most appreciated. TIA

"Cam" wrote in message
...
Complete newbie here. Glad I found this group

I am a fish freak...into Freshwater aquariums mostly (Malawi's). Until
now,
that is a couple of weeks ago when we moved into our new place WITH A
GARDEN.....yahooooo. Our garden is pretty small but I have always wanted a
pond. Can someone please point me to a website or some place of interest
to
a person who is "setting up" for the first time.

Would it be better to buy a fibreglass pond and just plant into the ground
or is it better to go the full blown plastering/wire mesh route. Pro's
Cons?

Any pointers on where to start would be most appreciated. TIA

Cam,

Welcome to the "Hotel California" of hobbies. You have just checked in. I
too am a newbie, having checked in only last September. My pond is but a
muddy hole right now.

My best suggestions for learning ponding:

1. Post every question you have here, no matter how newbie you think it
might be. Everyone here is happy to respond, and I have personally seen the
same questions asked/answered over and over again, nary the flame.
2. Read a lot of posts. Most every ponder has a web site about his/her pond.
You can learn more from their sites, IMHO, then any book, because they are
DOING.

As for you pond liner...I am going with EPDM for mine, easier to work with
then all other materials.

BV.

BenignVanilla,....LOL.....Nice nik!

Thanks for your advice. My next "noobie" question to you is: What on earth
is EPDM?
Sheesh its going to be long winter for me!!!! )

Over & Out




"BenignVanilla" wrote in
message ...
"Cam" wrote in message
...
Complete newbie here. Glad I found this group

I am a fish freak...into Freshwater aquariums mostly (Malawi's). Until
now,
that is a couple of weeks ago when we moved into our new place WITH A
GARDEN.....yahooooo. Our garden is pretty small but I have always wanted
a
pond. Can someone please point me to a website or some place of interest
to
a person who is "setting up" for the first time.

Would it be better to buy a fibreglass pond and just plant into the
ground
or is it better to go the full blown plastering/wire mesh route. Pro's
Cons?

Any pointers on where to start would be most appreciated. TIA

Cam,

Welcome to the "Hotel California" of hobbies. You have just checked in. I
too am a newbie, having checked in only last September. My pond is but a
muddy hole right now.

My best suggestions for learning ponding:

1. Post every question you have here, no matter how newbie you think it
might be. Everyone here is happy to respond, and I have personally seen
the
same questions asked/answered over and over again, nary the flame.
2. Read a lot of posts. Most every ponder has a web site about his/her
pond.
You can learn more from their sites, IMHO, then any book, because they are
DOING.

As for you pond liner...I am going with EPDM for mine, easier to work with
then all other materials.

BV.

"Cam" wrote in message
...
BenignVanilla,....LOL.....Nice nik!

Thanks for your advice. My next "noobie" question to you is: What on earth
is EPDM?
Sheesh its going to be long winter for me!!!! )

Over & Out

snip

There are basically four methods for lining your pond.

1. Don't...some areas have such a high content of clay in the soil, that the
ground will hold water forever. No liner is needed. I do not know anyone
with such a pond. I suspect this is so because even the most hard rock
ground will leak eventually, and I am sure the natural surface will leach in
to the water, clouding the water itself.

2. Cement - Pronounced Seeeeee-ment, if you are from some parts of MD,
Con-Crete if you are from Jersey. Cement is often is used in warmer climes
where the heaving of a freezing/thawing ground does not occur on a regular
basis. This type of base is more one of the more difficult methods of lining
a pond, because you need some mason skills. Many See-ment pond owners have
mentioned that leaks are a part of life when you own a See-ment pond. Some
ponders have reported no leaks. I suspect the disparity is geographical.

3. Solid Plastic Shells - These are very common in stores, and can give you
a quick clean finish. The biggest problem with these liners, is you have to
dig a hole that matches the shell. I have not done this, hope never to do
so.

4. EPDM - EPDM is a type of flexible, rubber liner. It is recommended for
ponds, as it can take the abuse of constant UV radiation from the sun. It's
easy to lay down in any hole, and can be expanded by "welding" two pieces
together. It provides ultimate flexibility with a good price!

BV.

Permalon beats the hell out of handling EDPM. I have a 300 gallon
EDPM (rubber) and 1000 gallon Permalon and the Permalon installation was
much easier. EPDM is about .040 thick and the Permalon is about .021
thick and stronger than the rubber. You do have to plan ahead because
Permalon is made to order then shipped, not cut from a roll.

Ken sells Permalon and provides a lot of good information here. He can
be contacted at:
http://www.kencofish.com/

I think there is more information on Permalon he
http://www.justliners.com/Permalon.htm

Several people who post here have URL's to their pond experience in
their signature. Check them out and you will probably find enough
information on starting a pond.

Regards,

Hal

On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 08:35:06 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
wrote:

As for you pond liner...I am going with EPDM for mine, easier to work with
then all other materials.

BV.

"Hal" wrote in message
...
Permalon beats the hell out of handling EDPM. I have a 300 gallon
EDPM (rubber) and 1000 gallon Permalon and the Permalon installation was
much easier. EPDM is about .040 thick and the Permalon is about .021
thick and stronger than the rubber. You do have to plan ahead because
Permalon is made to order then shipped, not cut from a roll.

Hal...great follow up...tell me more about permalon...I have never heard of
it!

BV.

Cam wrote:
BenignVanilla,....LOL.....Nice nik!

Thanks for your advice. My next "noobie" question to you is: What on earth
is EPDM?
Sheesh its going to be long winter for me!!!! )

Over & Out


A flexible rubber liner, available in 45 mil thickness usually.

--
Bonnie
NJ

BenignVanilla wrote:
"Hal" wrote in message
...

Permalon beats the hell out of handling EDPM. I have a 300 gallon
EDPM (rubber) and 1000 gallon Permalon and the Permalon installation was
much easier. EPDM is about .040 thick and the Permalon is about .021
thick and stronger than the rubber. You do have to plan ahead because
Permalon is made to order then shipped, not cut from a roll.


Hal...great follow up...tell me more about permalon...I have never heard of
it!

BV.



Hi,
Not Hal, but I've got a 10 x 14 x 2' pond with 65 mil EDPM
and a 8 x 16 x 44" pond with Permalon. The permalon is
definitely lighter and much easier to fold or pleat because
it is stiff. The EDPM is softer and will mold more easily.
Permalon is cheaper to buy and also cheaper for shipping.

--
Bonnie
NJ

BenignVanilla wrote:
"Hal" wrote in message
...

Permalon beats the hell out of handling EDPM. I have a 300 gallon
EDPM (rubber) and 1000 gallon Permalon and the Permalon installation was
much easier. EPDM is about .040 thick and the Permalon is about .021
thick and stronger than the rubber. You do have to plan ahead because
Permalon is made to order then shipped, not cut from a roll.


Hal...great follow up...tell me more about permalon...I have never heard of
it!

BV.


BV just for info I did a earlyer pond w EPDM 30x30 weighed in at 500+ lbs
the same pond w Permalon weighed in at 60 lbs permalon is much easyer
to handle can be seamed etc see kens website www.kenco.com he can
answer all lyour questions about it.

--
John Rutz

I'm not Porg am not am not am so
see my pond at:
http://www.fuerjefe.com

BenignVanilla wrote:

"Hal" wrote in message
...
Permalon beats the hell out of handling EDPM. I have a 300 gallon
EDPM (rubber) and 1000 gallon Permalon and the Permalon installation was
much easier. EPDM is about .040 thick and the Permalon is about .021
thick and stronger than the rubber. You do have to plan ahead because
Permalon is made to order then shipped, not cut from a roll.

Hal...great follow up...tell me more about permalon...I have never heard of
it!

BV.



Permalon X210 is 21 mil thick and 5-6x's stronger than EPDM.
it is custom cut/sized up to 1 acre sq.
its made from HDPE plastic, safe for potable/drinking water.


Permalon weighs 70 lbs per 1000 sq ft vs. 450 lbs. for EDPM,

you could never do this w/ EDPM unless you had a few cranes
http://www.kencofish.com/permalon.jpg



--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced.

Good, thorough reply, BV! "You have learned well," "Young PORGer."
**mixing my metaphors, ... er ..., scifi movies / series / etc.**
--
Kathy B, "zookeeper" (OR)
Completely PORGed (see archives)
3500gal pond

BenignVanilla wrote:
"Cam" wrote in message
...

BenignVanilla,....LOL.....Nice nik!

Thanks for your advice. My next "noobie" question to you is: What on earth
is EPDM? ....

There are basically four methods for lining your pond.

...

"John Rutz" wrote in message
...
snip
BV just for info I did a earlyer pond w EPDM 30x30 weighed in at 500+
lbs
the same pond w Permalon weighed in at 60 lbs permalon is much easyer
to handle can be seamed etc see kens website www.kenco.com he can
answer all lyour questions about it.

What's the cost difference?

BV.

"zookeeper" wrote in message
...
Good, thorough reply, BV! "You have learned well," "Young PORGer."
**mixing my metaphors, ... er ..., scifi movies / series / etc.**
--
Kathy B, "zookeeper" (OR)
Completely PORGed (see archives)
3500gal pond

Aww, thanks. One of these days I'll admit I still don't know what PORG
means, but not now.

BV.

Xref: news7 rec.ponds:100777

There is a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) at
http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html. This will have many of the
answers, but all on rec.ponds are willing to help. Don't let the fact that
we disagree in our responses bother you. Each of us have different
experiences. Take what you think is the best and go. We don't hold grudges
when you do it your way. Welcome to the group.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Cam" wrote in message
...
Complete newbie here. Glad I found this group

I am a fish freak...into Freshwater aquariums mostly (Malawi's). Until
now,
that is a couple of weeks ago when we moved into our new place WITH A
GARDEN.....yahooooo. Our garden is pretty small but I have always wanted a
pond. Can someone please point me to a website or some place of interest
to
a person who is "setting up" for the first time.

Would it be better to buy a fibreglass pond and just plant into the ground
or is it better to go the full blown plastering/wire mesh route. Pro's
Cons?

Any pointers on where to start would be most appreciated. TIA

BenignVanilla wrote:
"John Rutz" wrote in message
...
snip

BV just for info I did a earlyer pond w EPDM 30x30 weighed in at 500+

lbs

the same pond w Permalon weighed in at 60 lbs permalon is much easyer
to handle can be seamed etc see kens website www.kenco.com he can
answer all lyour questions about it.


What's the cost difference?

BV.



I just checked the price of EDPM, 45 mil thick, 30' x 30'
would be $699 plus $35 shipping. I don't know the current
price of permalon.

--
Bonnie
NJ