"Killjoy" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Zëbulon" wrote

Why don't YOU explain it to me?

Because it has become quite evident that you will not accept an
explanation from me or anyone else on this NG.

Try me instead of sidestepping the question. What's the difference in a
stock pond and an ornamental pond?

Hopefully Tenn. Fish and Wildlife and
maybe even the EPA will have satisfactory explanations. Environmental
agencies frown upon dumping diseased non-native fish, especially so close
to a lake.

And you know where this small stock pond is located? How close to the lake
is it and why is it more dangerous then keeping the koi in my own pond when
the only difference is my ponds are filtered?
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:36:41 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

That was one fish. You still haven't
replied why it's so dangerous for a koi with pox to be in a man made stock
pond but it's not dangerous for it to be a man made ornamental pond.

I raise my hand, even though you won't answer my questions straight up.

You keep your ponds netted so herons can't fly off with your fish, and
than
accidentally drop them in a natural waterway.

No Heron is going to carry an adult koi several miles and drop in anywhere.
Also Jan, the tub that fish was in was not netted because she was too large
for a heron or kingfisher. Are you saying that anyone who has a fish with
pox must net their pond or holding tanks? The only things netted around
here are holding fish small enough for the large bullfrogs, turtles or
herons to take.

I assume the stock pond is
not netted, this is usually the case since it would be detrimental to the
stock to drink from it, and get caught in netting?

I also assume most ponds are not netted, and pox, not being fatal, is not an
uncommon infection. I have seen it on local pond tours and few of those
ponds were netted.

Thus a heron could catch
and release right into a natural waterway. Not only has this happened,
we've had ponders locally come home to a strange, but dead fish in their
pond. Now if that isn't scary, I don't know what is.

Of course it is. But I can't stop a snake or snapper from getting through a
net and carrying off a fish and dropping it somewhere either. No one can
guarantee that unless their pond is indoors. What do we do Jan... get rid of
all our fish? This was a huge adult female no heron could lift no less
carry several miles. I'm not far from a lake and there has never been a
report of anyone catching goldfish, koi or any other exotic introduced
species there in all the years I've lived here. No wait... one summer
someone hooked a pacu and thought it was a piranha.

Even if your koi, for a fact, proven with a culture only had carp pox,
that
in and of itself IS contagious, low contagion, but still contagious.

So? See above. Any heron that can carry off a koi as large as she was
would have to be twice the size of an eagle. There are no birds here that
large. There is no way anyone can guarantee any fish kept outside will not
be hauled off by some predator.

You just jumped right on the bandwagon. ;-)

Guess I'm guilty of that also, check please, I ready to disembark. ~ jan

Before jumping on the bandwagon perhaps a few questions asked would be
helpful instead of immediately going for the throat... something that never
happened on this group before.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/fo...ay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:08:15 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

No Heron is going to carry an adult koi several miles and drop in anywhere.

Happened here. Got members of the club to prove it. Fish wasn't theirs,
that was dropped in their pond, 12-18" of dead koi.

Also Jan, the tub that fish was in was not netted because she was too large
for a heron or kingfisher.

Well just how large was she?

I also assume most ponds are not netted, and pox, not being fatal, is not an
uncommon infection. I have seen it on local pond tours and few of those
ponds were netted.

Right, but ornamental ponds are a tad less accessible then stock ponds in
the middle of fields.

Of course it is. But I can't stop a snake or snapper from getting through a
net and carrying off a fish and dropping it somewhere either.

Snakes & snappers don't do this, the eat on the spot.

There is no way anyone can guarantee any fish kept outside will not
be hauled off by some predator.

Stating obvious.... You never mentioned the size of the fish.

Before jumping on the bandwagon perhaps a few questions asked would be
helpful instead of immediately going for the throat... something that never
happened on this group before.

Now you're lashing out. I in no way went for your throat, if I did you
would be choking, heck I didn't even come close to any of your body parts.
My reply was civil, on topic and part of the discussion. It contained no
personal attack. Your combativeness just floors me. Proving once again
that one can't have a discussional disagreement with you without you seeing
it as a personal attack. s ~ jan

Zëbulon wrote:



Gill,... you are so full of it! This BS started with you when I refused
to go away and sneak back with a new persona so Roy Tristan Hauer and
Antonio L Santana, two obsessed trolls, would stop disrupting these
NGs.

The suggestion, which was not mine alone, was that you came back with a
less easily identified nym so that you would not be trolled the minute
that you posted......noone ever suggested a personality
transplant.....that would be ridiculous - the only suggestion was that
you changed nym and signature so that you would not be jumped on the
minute that you made a post.....


Until then you didn't twist everything I said. Now you've gone so
far as to claim there were other fish in a pond thousands of miles from
where you live and could not possibly have examined for other fish.

I haven't suggested this at all. However, a farm stock pond would
suggest to me that it is stocked with fish....and these creatures could
possibly be infected by the placing of a sick fish in with them....but
it is obvious that the pros and cons of dealing with an incurable fish
cannot be discussed here....so I'm not going to bother anymore.....For
the record it would not matter who posted that they had placed a sick
fish in a stock pond - my feelings would be the same.....


I
know your motive Gill, I just want others to know what it is as well.
You will do anything to get Roy to shut up and stop trolling here and
for Jabbers to leave.

My motive is to be able to post in peace on troll free groups - I would
hope that it is one that is shared by all other than those wishing to
troll the groups (and I would hope that these people in question also
would want this as well - but I can only dream....)

If that means you have to stoop to bearing my
throat for the kill you are willing to do it. If that means harassing
me off the group you're willing to do that as well.

You have just as much right to post on Usenet as anyone else.....if you
mean that by disagreeing with you from time to time I am harassing
you....then any debate with you is impossible without these accusations
being made from you (but then I've never known you do anything other
than accuse those with opposing views of being trolls or out to get you
- so I doubt that you will change now).....I have no desire to see you
leave the group - my only desire is and has always been to be able to
post and read the newsgroups in peace without having to read someone's
dirty laundry at the same time.....to be able to open up a newsgroup and
not have to filter through 10s of off-topic messages to read stuff of
interest (as I had to do on rec.aquaria.marine.reefs this morning)....

I repeat, I am not harassing you....but may disagree with you and
respond.....this is called discussion and debate.....


You have no
integrity and little honesty and I hope you decide not to be a
moderator. You're carrying too much baggage with you......... SHAME ON
YOU!

Insults......all because I take an opposing view to you on the morality
of dumping a sick and possible contagious fish in another pond - well if
my integrity dictates that this should not be done then I am happy that
my inegrity is not compromised.....

So for the record:-

1. If I disagree or feel that something needs further discussion I will
do so WHOEVER the poster is......I will not make an exception because
someone will accuse me of harassing them.....nor will I be intimidated
by anyone into not giving my point of view

2. I have no desire to see anyone stop post on these groups.....my only
desire is that this is done without trolling and insults....and that
posts are on-topic

3. When it comes to a moderated rec.ponds any moderation should be done
on content alone and not on the poster's identity - this leaves all of
you free to post there providing you follow the moderation policy

4. I think that the dragging of other unconnected groups into whatever
troll games are going on here is reprehensible WHOEVER does it.....

Now if anyone has a problem with the above....then let me know

Gill

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:08:15 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

No Heron is going to carry an adult koi several miles and drop in
anywhere.

Happened here. Got members of the club to prove it. Fish wasn't theirs,
that was dropped in their pond, 12-18" of dead koi.

Well it looks like we'll all have to net our ponds. BTW the herons here are
the small ones about the size of a banty rooster.

Also Jan, the tub that fish was in was not netted because she was too
large
for a heron or kingfisher.

Well just how large was she?

Her body was excluding the tail was 18" or more. She outweighed the little
green Herons by several pounds.

I also assume most ponds are not netted, and pox, not being fatal, is not
an
uncommon infection. I have seen it on local pond tours and few of those
ponds were netted.

Right, but ornamental ponds are a tad less accessible then stock ponds in
the middle of fields.

That don't apply here since herons will sit right on your roof or garage
until you go in - then they're right on your pond rim fishing. They take
fish from ponds in towns. You may be talking about a different heron.

Of course it is. But I can't stop a snake or snapper from getting through
a
net and carrying off a fish and dropping it somewhere either.

Snakes & snappers don't do this, the eat on the spot.

So do the herons we have here. A few gulps and the fish is gone. In ever saw
one pick up a fish larger then itself and carry it off.

There is no way anyone can guarantee any fish kept outside will not
be hauled off by some predator.

Stating obvious.... You never mentioned the size of the fish.

And *no one bothered to ask* before going for my throat. So let me repeat
this for posterity. Before this koi was turned out in the farm pond the
whole top of her dorsal fin was amputated to remove the waxy growth
beforehand. I had permission to put fish in this pond from the landowner who
liked the idea (misquito control). I knew he couldn't keep fish in this
pond due to predators and this pond is right near a dwelling. I knew this
fish stood no chance but allowed nature to take it course. When I went back
with some goldfish culls I didn't see her so can only assume some raccoon
had a good dinner.

Before jumping on the bandwagon perhaps a few questions asked would be
helpful instead of immediately going for the throat... something that
never
happened on this group before.

Now you're lashing out.

Why not jan? Everyone else seems to feel they can lash out at me and say
anything they want. They lash out and jump on everything I say. Everything
has to be explained down to the last minute detail. Why and *I* held to a
different standard? Why didn't you do this to the other poster to
recommended shooting and killing a protected bird, never mentioning it was
both illegal and immoral here in the USA? Why are there different standards
for different posters here?

I in no way went for your throat, if I did you
would be choking, heck I didn't even come close to any of your body parts.
My reply was civil, on topic and part of the discussion. It contained no
personal attack.

Then please ask for details before lecturing me on illegally "dumping
diseased" fish in waterways.

Your combativeness just floors me. Proving once again
that one can't have a discussional disagreement with you without you
seeing
it as a personal attack. s ~ jan

You're lecturing me on wildlife laws I'm well aware of without asking me for
more information *FLOORS* me - since you never did this to anyone else. Why
do it to me? This proves once again you hold me to a different standard
than you hold the other posters here - even when they recommend the illegal
killing of a protected species.

I don't want to hear it's legal to kill Herons in the UK because he didn't
tell the poster that - and YOU never said a word!!!! God help me if I
posted something like that.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
Zëbulon wrote:



Gill,... you are so full of it! This BS started with you when I refused
to go away and sneak back with a new persona so Roy Tristan Hauer and
Antonio L Santana, two obsessed trolls, would stop disrupting these NGs.

The suggestion, which was not mine alone, was that you came back with a
less easily identified nym so that you would not be trolled the minute
that you posted......noone ever suggested a personality
transplant.....that would be ridiculous - the only suggestion was that you
changed nym and signature so that you would not be jumped on the minute
that you made a post.....

Ok, Gill... the second minute I posted then. Let's NOT change history. You
knew very well when I changed my nym the first time the trolls flooded my
NSPs and ISP with complaints. When I was forced to change it the second
time they did the same thing. We discussed this over the phone and by
e-mail. I was not going to change it again and allow the harassment of my
NSPs and ISP to continue. This was all explained to you more than once.
And you know darn well they *would* know it's me the minute they read my 1st
or 2nd message. Meanwhile I could lose my service "as I also explained to
you more than once." Did you ever actually HEAR what I was saying? These
trolls have a "mission" as Jayne said. They're so desperate to "get me"
I've seen them accuse people using WebTV of being me! I'm glad Roy Tristan
Hauer called Bellsouth (see his message on reefs) and they assured him the
messages weren't from our business account. Now before I have to explain
myself in minute detail to you - no, I have no interest in your reef group.
I was sent the message he posted there regarding the Bellsouth call.

Until then you didn't twist everything I said. Now you've gone so far as
to claim there were other fish in a pond thousands of miles from where
you live and could not possibly have examined for other fish.

I haven't suggested this at all. However, a farm stock pond would suggest
to me that it is stocked with fish....

So you just ASSUMED. Any fish in those ponds are from my ponds, my culls.
Most have a short life because of predators, from herons to huge bullfrogs.

and these creatures could possibly be infected by the placing of a sick
fish in with them....

What makes you think I don't know these things?

but
it is obvious that the pros and cons of dealing with an incurable fish
cannot be discussed here....so I'm not going to bother anymore.....For the
record it would not matter who posted that they had placed a sick fish in
a stock pond - my feelings would be the same.....

As would mine. Odd how I mentioned these stock ponds before and not one of
you ever made a peep before.

I know your motive Gill, I just want others to know what it is as well.
You will do anything to get Roy to shut up and stop trolling here and for
Jabbers to leave.

My motive is to be able to post in peace on troll free groups - I would
hope that it is one that is shared by all other than those wishing to
troll the groups (and I would hope that these people in question also
would want this as well - but I can only dream....)

Well keep dreaming as I am. Unless there are good moderators who will not
show favoritism this group is doomed.

If that means you have to stoop to bearing my throat for the kill you
are willing to do it. If that means harassing me off the group you're
willing to do that as well.

You have just as much right to post on Usenet as anyone else.....if you
mean that by disagreeing with you from time to time I am harassing you..

You can disagree with me all you like - but don't ASSUME without asking
first. I shouldn't be expected to write a 10K post explaining everything in
minute detail as I just did to Jan regarding the stock ponds, the size of
the koi, the size of the herons etc. It's like the Inquisition for cripes
sake!!! :-D Don't hold me to a different standard than others.

...then any debate with you is impossible without these accusations
being made from you (but then I've never known you do anything other than
accuse those with opposing views of being trolls or out to get you - so I
doubt that you will change now).....I have no desire to see you leave the
group - my only desire is and has always been to be able to post and read
the newsgroups in peace without having to read someone's dirty laundry at
the same time.....to be able to open up a newsgroup and not have to filter
through 10s of off-topic messages to read stuff of interest (as I had to
do on rec.aquaria.marine.reefs this morning)....

Then muzzle the mad-dog. He's messages are beyond dirty laundry. They're
often disgusting and would turn any normal person off. I don't post smut
and obscenities here. Don't hold me responsible for his obsessions and bad
behavior. If he's going to troll, he's going to be trolled in return.

I repeat, I am not harassing you....but may disagree with you and
respond.....this is called discussion and debate.....

Ok..... See above. If someone can blatantly advise others to illegally
kill herons here in the USA and you say nothing to this person, not
bothering to "correct" him by telling him the laws here in the USA why do it
to me? Treat everyone alike or don't "correct" anyone. Isn't that fair?
God help me if I advised someone to shoot herons and he's done it more than
once.

You have no integrity and little honesty and I hope you decide not to be
a moderator. You're carrying too much baggage with you......... SHAME ON
YOU!

Insults......all because I take an opposing view to you on the morality of
dumping a sick and possible contagious fish in another pond -

ASSUMING WHAT THE SITUATION WAS!!! You never bothered to ask. Never mind
your fiend is telling people to illegally kill herons and you say
nothing!!!!!!!! It's ok to kill these protected birds but you're suddenly
so concerned this one koi may infect a few goldfish I added to this farm
pond in the past. Worry about our water birds being shot on the advice of
the other poster. How hypocritical can you get Gill? In the UK you never
heard what's good for the goose is good for the gander? Stop being a
hypocrite......

snip
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Carol is not going to put any account they have to pay for in
jeopardy......thats why she uses free news servers they are like her
email accounts, expendable or disposable....Perhaps if she had to pay
to post through a news server she may chill out, but I doubt it, she
is just to ignorant to see what kind of fool she is in the eyes of
all others. Not a single person comes to her aide anymore as they have
either been stabbed in the back by her or they seen the light, its
all about carol....Folds are not as dumb as you seem to think they are
carol.......99.99% of them are thousands of times smarter than yu coul
dever dream of.


Hey Gill, yuour enabling Carol, she is getting her daily ego boost and
adrenaline rush....Thats all any of this is about, the high and
attention the attention whore craves......She wears out her welcome in
any place she frequents....She jumps in feet first, and things she is
queen, but soon no one pays her highness any atatention since it snot
hard to figure the oold bitch out, and she starts to get shunned and
ignored......Then she drops out and move to yet another
forum.....Check em all out, her track record for most any forum before
some banter ****es her off and she leaves or gets booted or just
looses interest, is about a month......

She would have been gone from here if folks did not pay her any
attention, and its only gonna get worse once themoderated group is
up, especially now that most of the folks that have tried to post here
only to get spit on by carol like the pewrson with the sick koi and
pics thread, knows ecatly where and who the problem is. Its been
seen that way inthe freshwater.misc andother aquaria groups and they
all know her in the reef group..Amazing how many posts she can make
and trash me and others yet no one has been taking her side, only now
telling her to go to hell and grow up.......She has yet to make one
little pity point out of all those hundreds of posts she claims one
minute and denies the next........

Carol who has to have 1000 watts of metal halide lights focused on her
to exist is now running with a 1.5 volt battery operated light at
about 50% power................and its steadlily getting dimmer.....

Just look at her contributions in any shape form or fashion........if
it was not for plagaraized stuff she would be at a loss except for
trashing type posts..........she has no morales or scruples and
certainly is not a loss in any forum looking for content. All the
world loves a fool , but not many give a shit about a dumbass named
CArol Gulley!



On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:17:05 -0600, Zëbulon

wrote:


"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
Zëbulon wrote:



Gill,... you are so full of it! This BS started with you when I refused
to go away and sneak back with a new persona so Roy Tristan Hauer and
Antonio L Santana, two obsessed trolls, would stop disrupting these NGs.

The suggestion, which was not mine alone, was that you came back with a
less easily identified nym so that you would not be trolled the minute
that you posted......noone ever suggested a personality
transplant.....that would be ridiculous - the only suggestion was that you
changed nym and signature so that you would not be jumped on the minute
that you made a post.....

Ok, Gill... the second minute I posted then. Let's NOT change history. You
knew very well when I changed my nym the first time the trolls flooded my
NSPs and ISP with complaints. When I was forced to change it the second
time they did the same thing. We discussed this over the phone and by
e-mail. I was not going to change it again and allow the harassment of my
NSPs and ISP to continue. This was all explained to you more than once.
And you know darn well they *would* know it's me the minute they read my 1st
or 2nd message. Meanwhile I could lose my service "as I also explained to
you more than once." Did you ever actually HEAR what I was saying? These
trolls have a "mission" as Jayne said. They're so desperate to "get me"
I've seen them accuse people using WebTV of being me! I'm glad Roy Tristan
Hauer called Bellsouth (see his message on reefs) and they assured him the
messages weren't from our business account. Now before I have to explain
myself in minute detail to you - no, I have no interest in your reef group.
I was sent the message he posted there regarding the Bellsouth call.

Until then you didn't twist everything I said. Now you've gone so far as
to claim there were other fish in a pond thousands of miles from where
you live and could not possibly have examined for other fish.

I haven't suggested this at all. However, a farm stock pond would suggest
to me that it is stocked with fish....

So you just ASSUMED. Any fish in those ponds are from my ponds, my culls.
Most have a short life because of predators, from herons to huge bullfrogs.

and these creatures could possibly be infected by the placing of a sick
fish in with them....

What makes you think I don't know these things?

but
it is obvious that the pros and cons of dealing with an incurable fish
cannot be discussed here....so I'm not going to bother anymore.....For the
record it would not matter who posted that they had placed a sick fish in
a stock pond - my feelings would be the same.....

As would mine. Odd how I mentioned these stock ponds before and not one of
you ever made a peep before.

I know your motive Gill, I just want others to know what it is as well.
You will do anything to get Roy to shut up and stop trolling here and for
Jabbers to leave.

My motive is to be able to post in peace on troll free groups - I would
hope that it is one that is shared by all other than those wishing to
troll the groups (and I would hope that these people in question also
would want this as well - but I can only dream....)

Well keep dreaming as I am. Unless there are good moderators who will not
show favoritism this group is doomed.

If that means you have to stoop to bearing my throat for the kill you
are willing to do it. If that means harassing me off the group you're
willing to do that as well.

You have just as much right to post on Usenet as anyone else.....if you
mean that by disagreeing with you from time to time I am harassing you..

You can disagree with me all you like - but don't ASSUME without asking
first. I shouldn't be expected to write a 10K post explaining everything in
minute detail as I just did to Jan regarding the stock ponds, the size of
the koi, the size of the herons etc. It's like the Inquisition for cripes
sake!!! :-D Don't hold me to a different standard than others.

..then any debate with you is impossible without these accusations
being made from you (but then I've never known you do anything other than
accuse those with opposing views of being trolls or out to get you - so I
doubt that you will change now).....I have no desire to see you leave the
group - my only desire is and has always been to be able to post and read
the newsgroups in peace without having to read someone's dirty laundry at
the same time.....to be able to open up a newsgroup and not have to filter
through 10s of off-topic messages to read stuff of interest (as I had to
do on rec.aquaria.marine.reefs this morning)....

Then muzzle the mad-dog. He's messages are beyond dirty laundry. They're
often disgusting and would turn any normal person off. I don't post smut
and obscenities here. Don't hold me responsible for his obsessions and bad
behavior. If he's going to troll, he's going to be trolled in return.

I repeat, I am not harassing you....but may disagree with you and
respond.....this is called discussion and debate.....

Ok..... See above. If someone can blatantly advise others to illegally
kill herons here in the USA and you say nothing to this person, not
bothering to "correct" him by telling him the laws here in the USA why do it
to me? Treat everyone alike or don't "correct" anyone. Isn't that fair?
God help me if I advised someone to shoot herons and he's done it more than
once.

You have no integrity and little honesty and I hope you decide not to be
a moderator. You're carrying too much baggage with you......... SHAME ON
YOU!

Insults......all because I take an opposing view to you on the morality of
dumping a sick and possible contagious fish in another pond -

ASSUMING WHAT THE SITUATION WAS!!! You never bothered to ask. Never mind
your fiend is telling people to illegally kill herons and you say
nothing!!!!!!!! It's ok to kill these protected birds but you're suddenly
so concerned this one koi may infect a few goldfish I added to this farm
pond in the past. Worry about our water birds being shot on the advice of
the other poster. How hypocritical can you get Gill? In the UK you never
heard what's good for the goose is good for the gander? Stop being a
hypocrite......

snip



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

OK....I'm getting more than a little fed up with all this right now (and
that is not targetted at anyone in particular). These discussions are
detracting from the OPs problem and this is not fair on
him/her....Therefore I have created two new threads.....

Under certain circumstances it is OK to release sick fish into stock ponds

Under certain circumstances it is OK to shoot at herons

All discussion of either subject should be made under the appropriate
thread, if indeed there is anything further to discuss about either.....

There should be no discussion of either topic under this thread.....and
I hope that scs0 has got the advice that he needed somewhere within his
thread and that his koi is making good progress....

Gill

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
OK....I'm getting more than a little fed up with all this right now (and
that is not targetted at anyone in particular). These discussions are
detracting from the OPs problem and this is not fair on
him/her....Therefore I have created two new threads.....

All new threads turn into personal attacks on me.

Under certain circumstances it is OK to release sick fish into stock ponds

Define "sick." Read my reply to Jan.

Under certain circumstances it is OK to shoot at herons

If you have a permit and that should be stressed to the person being told to
kill protected species. Other methods of control should be tried first. I
seriously doubt you'd get a permit for an ornamental pond. Our wildlife is
precious and in many cases threatened. Koi are not a threatened species.

All discussion of either subject should be made under the appropriate
thread, if indeed there is anything further to discuss about either.....

When a thread is used as a soap box to attacks others there is nothing left
to discuss. Others will not join in in fear they will come under fire.

There should be no discussion of either topic under this thread.....and I
hope that scs0 has got the advice that he needed somewhere within his
thread and that his koi is making good progress....

Gill

He or she will probably never come back.........

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:06:03 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

BTW the herons here are
the small ones about the size of a banty rooster.

Instead of being defensive, you could have mentioned this and the size of
the fish.

A Great Blue Heron, could fly away with an 18-24" fish, it has happened
here. So they don't have those in your area of Tennessee? My bird book says
they are throughout the USA (and beyond). You're lucky.

Why not jan? Everyone else seems to feel they can lash out at me and say
anything they want.

Then you're no different then when Roy was attacking everyone. I wasn't
attacking you, I wasn't even personally addressing you at the time. I was
just mentioning what I know. You took it personal and then lashed out at
me. So why not you ask? Because it is wrong and hypocritical.

They lash out and jump on everything I say. Everything
has to be explained down to the last minute detail.

If you don't want to be misunderstood. When I say heron, and I bet 90% of
the people here do also, I think of the Great Blue.

Why and *I* held to a different standard? Why didn't you do this to the other poster to
recommended shooting and killing a protected bird, never mentioning it was
both illegal and immoral here in the USA?

Stick to the present and not some long past post. I didn't see this posted
recently here on RP, and if someone else covered it, I didn't see anything
to add. Last time I saw someone post that information was long, long ago. I
don't pull up old posts that have since lost their importance or
timeliness.

Then please ask for details before lecturing me on illegally "dumping
diseased" fish in waterways.

I didn't, see paragraph 3. I can't help it if you see everything I type as
lecturing YOU. That is YOUR problem not mine.

You're lecturing me on wildlife laws

You're getting your posters mixed up. I didn't even mention wildlife laws.

I'm well aware of without asking me for
more information *FLOORS* me - since you never did this to anyone else. Why
do it to me?

When I have replied to something that is a misunderstanding due to what
that poster typed, they come back and civilly fix it. They rarely took it
as a personal attacked. Why are you different you ask? That's why.

I don't want to hear it's legal to kill Herons in the UK because he didn't
tell the poster that - and YOU never said a word!!!! God help me if I
posted something like that.

I rarely EVER post on what makes heron an edible meat. It is not a hot
button for me, others cover that topic quite well. I never have and
probably never will. So my not saying a word wasn't a new MO for me. ~ jan

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:07:12 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
OK....I'm getting more than a little fed up with all this right now (and
that is not targetted at anyone in particular). These discussions are
detracting from the OPs problem and this is not fair on
him/her....Therefore I have created two new threads.....

All new threads turn into personal attacks on me.

I wonder what yur definition of "attack" is carol. Any dissagreement
with you is considered a person attack by you. Your a loon!

Under certain circumstances it is OK to release sick fish into stock ponds

Define "sick." Read my reply to Jan.
Its easier to see a picture of sick.look in a mirrow carol thats what
sick is!

Under certain circumstances it is OK to shoot at herons

To all but by your standards.


If you have a permit and that should be stressed to the person being told to
kill protected species. Other methods of control should be tried first. I
seriously doubt you'd get a permit for an ornamental pond. Our wildlife is
precious and in many cases threatened. Koi are not a threatened species.

I assume yopur listed as an endangered species CArol, your one of a
kind, thats for sure.....just you and sasquatch.........quite a pair.

All discussion of either subject should be made under the appropriate
thread, if indeed there is anything further to discuss about either.....

When a thread is used as a soap box to attacks others there is nothing left
to discuss. Others will not join in in fear they will come under fire.

Thats CArols entire ploy, get on a soap box and start a fire.

There should be no discussion of either topic under this thread.....and I
hope that scs0 has got the advice that he needed somewhere within his
thread and that his koi is making good progress....

Gill

He or she will probably never come back.........

Oh they have more than oane way to skin a cat, I have answwered three
emails from this person today....how many emails do you get form folks
looking for advice or help carol.none is my bet,. Thats why you keep a
barn full of socks so you can converse with something or
other.......your an introvert!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:46:46 -0600, Tristan wrote:

its only gonna get worse once the moderated group is
up, especially now that most of the folks that have tried to post here
only to get spit on

I don't think so. Because everyone will have to be civil, including Carol.
If a poster disagrees civilly and she takes it as a personal attack and
comes back all accusatory, I'll put it in the reject bin for someone else
to double check. ~ jan

Tristan wrote:
your an introvert!


In the best interests of the English language and with no offence meant
to anyone - this is an oxymoron.....(if you don't know what it means do
a google) :-)

Gill

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:06:03 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

BTW the herons here are
the small ones about the size of a banty rooster.

Instead of being defensive, you could have mentioned this and the size of
the fish.

Why wasn't I asked before all the lectures and all the ASSUMING? Why do I
have to post 10K posts covering every little bitty thing when no one else is
expected to? What would make you think I would take "diseased fish" and
illegally dump them in some waterway or lake? Then when accused you don't
understand why I get a bit defensive. Why suddenly am I under suspicion with
every post, every subject when it wasn't this way before? When I had those
problems years ago with "contagious ulcers" the fish were disposed of by
burial where nothing could get to them to spread the disease. What couldn't
be sterilized was burnt in the burn bin. Not one of you questioned me at the
time about the disposal method I used.

A Great Blue Heron, could fly away with an 18-24" fish, it has happened
here. So they don't have those in your area of Tennessee? My bird book
says
they are throughout the USA (and beyond). You're lucky.

Sure they may be here, but so are bobcats and I don't see them either. I've
seen cranes down by the lake. No huge herons. Where does that leave
ponders then? Are we to net every pond to keep these huge birds from
carrying away our fish? You're not going to find many ponds where the fish
are 100% parasite free. It's suspected were I live that some diseases are
carried by frogs, snakes, water birds etc. How do you think sunfish get
into my ponds?

Why not jan? Everyone else seems to feel they can lash out at me and say
anything they want.

Then you're no different then when Roy was attacking everyone.

Really? Who have I called the things he has called people for no reason at
all Jan? Have I called you a whore, a carpet-bagger, a gangster and some of
the things he's called people just for posting here?

I wasn't
attacking you, I wasn't even personally addressing you at the time. I was
just mentioning what I know. You took it personal and then lashed out at
me. So why not you ask? Because it is wrong and hypocritical.

So if you get annoyed you are free to show your annoyance but I am not? I'm
held to a different standard for some reason these days.


They lash out and jump on everything I say. Everything
has to be explained down to the last minute detail.

If you don't want to be misunderstood. When I say heron, and I bet 90% of
the people here do also, I think of the Great Blue.

And here in TN 90% of the people would probably think of the smaller herons
which are the bane of pond owners.

Why and *I* held to a different standard? Why didn't you do this to the
other poster to
recommended shooting and killing a protected bird, never mentioning it was
both illegal and immoral here in the USA?

Stick to the present and not some long past post.

The kill heron post was from a few days ago as way my sick fish post. What
makes mine recent and that one long past when they're from the same week?

I didn't see this posted
recently here on RP, and if someone else covered it, I didn't see anything
to add. Last time I saw someone post that information was long, long ago.
I
don't pull up old posts that have since lost their importance or
timeliness.

It was recent. I said the same suggestion to shoot and kill herons was made
in the past also.

Then please ask for details before lecturing me on illegally "dumping
diseased" fish in waterways.

I didn't, see paragraph 3. I can't help it if you see everything I type as
lecturing YOU. That is YOUR problem not mine.

What would you call lecturing? What do you want me to call it to please
you? Why say anything at all or ask for details which you did not do.

You're lecturing me on wildlife laws

You're getting your posters mixed up. I didn't even mention wildlife laws.

I'm well aware of without asking me for
more information *FLOORS* me - since you never did this to anyone else.
Why
do it to me?

When I have replied to something that is a misunderstanding due to what
that poster typed, they come back and civilly fix it. They rarely took it
as a personal attacked. Why are you different you ask? That's why.

I see. OK, next time ASK for a detailed explanation if you feel you need
one. I ASSUMED you had the smarts to know I knew the laws and would not
contaminate a local waterway (no rivers near me) or lake with "diseased
fish."

I don't want to hear it's legal to kill Herons in the UK because he didn't
tell the poster that - and YOU never said a word!!!! God help me if I
posted something like that.

I rarely EVER post on what makes heron an edible meat. It is not a hot
button for me, others cover that topic quite well. I never have and
probably never will. So my not saying a word wasn't a new MO for me. ~
jan

Then please don't "say a word" to me next time when it comes to the farm
ponds ok? :-) Because illegally killing birds is a more serious issue to
me than releasing a fish into a farm pond to let nature take it's course,
which it did, rather than killing her myself.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

DUH, what can I say, I just washed my mouth out with soap for saying
that to her queen bee........I knew I should have studied harder in
class..........


On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 00:38:28 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

Tristan wrote:
your an introvert!


In the best interests of the English language and with no offence meant
to anyone - this is an oxymoron.....(if you don't know what it means do
a google) :-)

Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!