any hydro peeps here?

"Wilson" wrote in message
...
sometime in the recent past gunner posted this:
"Wilson" wrote in message
...

Are these your salient points?
Bele or Lokai...,
sniffing you out....
cookbook, chef...
No urea, no herbicide, no pesticide....
So praise the 14 bottom plow... Who do you shill for Gunner? ...
I don't need to read the studies or the reports to know the agenda they
serve....


I do admit I had to look that one up,..... Star Trek ! a Sci-Fi fantasy!
That floored me at first, then as I thought about, I realized that much of
your ilk has this sort of fantasy version of the old communes and old Mother
Earth magazines You need it to feel good, don't ya? You can't be bothered
with little things like reality and facts as you play these philosophical
fantasy games. The work to make your vision happen is always borne by
others. Your are the cerebrals, never the worker bees. If it fails, it is
the worker's fault, they didn't keep the faith. You and billy both avoid
facts because it would destroy that fantasy vision you guys have created. I
just took a quick look back and see you and the tribal medicine man both
walk and talk like the same duck. Its some version of this every time;
"your facts lie because you don't know about all the earth destruction from
the plow...blah, blah, Monoculture... blah, blah and all the pesticides
....blah, blah, blah. " leaves just a bit of the mystery to life and its
processes" as you say. Did you guys take this approach from the old Cold
War playbook? Suspiciously sounds like it.

Sniffing? a nearsighted blind man can tell what brand you ride for. You
guys all ride the same jackass.

Inferring I need to understand the nuance of haute cuisine to be as
cerebral as your camp? Trust me you don't want to go with that analogy.

This you need to readdress; "no urea, no herbicides and no pesticides" in
the Organo camp, you just wish there was not. Isn't the approved list
somewhere in your little red book?

Shill? You two sure try to paint me as bias alot, as you do everyone that
challenges your dogma. Dr. J. Swartz is one that does come to mind. Funny
that thread was. Calling Sherwin a liar only to find out he really did talk
to Swartz who thinks your tribe is a bunch of loonies, billy starts in
denigrating him as a shrill but in his short memory he neglects to recall he
used Swartz as an authoritative source in that PAN thread. Wow, how quick
you guys flip, can't even keep up with your own BS.

But fact check this Spock, you will not find where I ever have shilled for
an agribiz. Never endorsed the chemical industry. No, not one iota. That
is your lie! I support many of the concepts of permaculture and
sustainability. I have studied a few culture's agriculture and culinary
anthropology for a while. My trigger is when you guys use lies to support
this dogma of yours. All I have done is show many of your facts are false
science and what seems to be your program's propaganda. Since you cannot
refute these and you little boys can't bully me, you have to neutralize
that by painting any contradiction as biased. That is all your fantasy
world has, you don't have much else to counter your false self
righteousness. I respect the good intentions of folks, just not folks that
use pseudoscience to fit their own perceptions

Too bad you didn't read the link, that is pitifully close-minded. Read my
links or not I don't care, You have freewill to be all you want be. Just
know, I do read what folks link and reference, even the ones billy cherry
picks. I'm thinking he should read his links also.

Are you active or passive?

BTW since you know my agenda , I will paste it here for anyone still reading
this:

http://www.criticalreading.com/critical_thinking.htm

What is Critical Thinking?

No one always acts purely objectively and rationally. We connive for selfish
interests. We gossip, boast, exaggerate, and equivocate. It is "only human"
to wish to validate our prior knowledge, to vindicate our prior decisions,
or to sustain our earlier beliefs. In the process of satisfying our ego,
however, we can often deny ourselves intellectual growth and opportunity. We
may not always want to apply critical thinking skills, but we should have
those skills available to be employed when needed.
Critical thinking includes a complex combination of skills. Among the main
characteristics are the following:

Rationality
We are thinking critically when we
a.. rely on reason rather than emotion,
b.. require evidence, ignore no known evidence, and follow evidence where
it leads, and
c.. are concerned more with finding the best explanation than being right
analyzing apparent confusion and asking questions.
Self-awareness
We are thinking critically when we
a.. weigh the influences of motives and bias, and
b.. recognize our own assumptions, prejudices, biases, or point of view.
Honesty
We are thinking critically when we recognize emotional impulses, selfish
motives, nefarious purposes, or other modes of self-deception.
Open-mindedness
We are thinking critically when we
a.. evaluate all reasonable inferences
b.. consider a variety of possible viewpoints or perspectives,
c.. remain open to alternative interpretations
d.. accept a new explanation, model, or paradigm because it explains the
evidence better, is simpler, or has fewer inconsistencies or covers more
data
e.. accept new priorities in response to a reevaluation of the evidence or
reassessment of our real interests, and
f.. do not reject unpopular views out of hand.
Discipline
We are thinking critically when we
a.. are precise, meticulous, comprehensive, and exhaustive
b.. resist manipulation and irrational appeals, and
c.. avoid snap judgments.
Judgment
We are thinking critically when we
a.. recognize the relevance and/or merit of alternative assumptions and
perspectives
b.. recognize the extent and weight of evidence

In sum,
a.. Critical thinkers are by nature skeptical. They approach texts with
the same skepticism and suspicion as they approach spoken remarks.
b.. Critical thinkers are active, not passive. They ask questions and
analyze. They consciously apply tactics and strategies to uncover meaning or
assure their understanding.
c.. Critical thinkers do not take an egotistical view of the world. They
are opento new ideas and perspectives. They are willing to challenge their
beliefs and investigate competing evidence.

Critical thinking enables us to recognize a wide range of subjective
analyses of otherwise objective data, and to evaluate how well each analysis
might meet our needs. Facts may be facts, but how we interpret them may
vary.

By contrast, passive, non-critical thinkers take a simplistic view of the
world.

a.. They see things in black and white, as either-or, rather than
recognizing a variety of possible understanding.
b.. They see questions as yes or no with no subtleties.
c.. They fail to see linkages and complexities.
d.. They fail to recognize related elements.
Non-critical thinkers take an egotistical view of the world
a.. They take their facts as the only relevant ones.
b.. They take their own perspective as the only sensible one.
c.. They take their goal as the only valid one.


The other pages are a good outline also.

"gunner" wrote in message

(snip) I realized that much of
your ilk has this sort of fantasy version of the old communes and old
Mother
Earth magazines You need it to feel good, don't ya? You can't be bothered
with little things like reality and facts as you play these philosophical
fantasy games. The work to make your vision happen is always borne by
others. Your are the cerebrals, never the worker bees. If it fails, it
is
the worker's fault, they didn't keep the faith.
(snip)
BTW since you know my agenda , I will paste it here for anyone still
reading this:

http://www.criticalreading.com/critical_thinking.htm


LOL. What a gem!

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:56:32 -0400, Wilson
wrote:


"Wilson" wrote in message
" ...And I know you'll blast me for this one, but I
don't need to read the studies or the reports to know the agenda they serve.
You dismiss and I dismiss. We are both dismissed. Class adjourned."

Very sophomoric and close-minded, yet, Charlie still writes :
" My hat is off and a very deep bow...."
" This is the best rebuttal and reply I have had the pleasure to read in
a long time."
"Thank you, Wilson."

Glaring in its absence....STILL nothing of substance given to support your
shaman.

BTW Charlie, yes your rec.gardens.organic newsgroup is "Deader than a
Hammer......SAD" as you so note. As to why? Personally I think it is the
requisite sermons and proselytizing your tribe tends to do. Maybe the
decline is because of the "teabags" the tribe is leaving to mark
the trail back to camp, or perhaps its the "little red book" the tribe
passes out at the advocacy group meetings? This outlines your only M.O. so
far.

Regardless of why Charlie, all your Shaman has got is lots of Faulty
Analogy, then fringe talk, followed by Ad Hominem attacks. All the while,
the lynch mob hangs back, hoping to snipe one in there when no one is
looking
as demonstrated here

As for this great pearl of wisdom you posted in
your organic newsgroup:

....", but for those who are new, or want to learn something
new, aren't we beholden to correct ignorance and false information
when we encounter it, sheldon, things garden monsanto
worshippers (credit to phorbin)...different perspectives are what we
offer.
Charlie"

A perspective is much different than fact and yes, we are
beholden. "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance
and conscientious stupidity._ MLK Jr.

I still hold hope for your shaman. The lynch mob? not so much nowadays.

Gunner

I used both daikon and garlic in a batch of kraut a couple of years ago.
Very tasty in a kimchee sort of way.
Steve
"Gary Woods" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:

Isn't this an Ad Hominem?
/rhetorical/*

Dang! We were hoping you didn't notice that!

I've got to go pull a bunch of Daikons that just love fall growing.
First
sample was 18" long by 5" max diameter. Has anybody shredded and
fermented them a la kraut? And after a dismal summer, the fall greens are
going great guns.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at
home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

The author has marked this message not to be archived. This post will be deleted on November 22, 2009.

---

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 07:58:13 -0800, "gunner"
wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:56:32 -0400, Wilson
wrote:


"Wilson" wrote in message
" ...And I know you'll blast me for this one, but I
don't need to read the studies or the reports to know the agenda they serve.
You dismiss and I dismiss. We are both dismissed. Class adjourned."

Very sophomoric and close-minded, yet, Charlie still writes :
" My hat is off and a very deep bow...."
" This is the best rebuttal and reply I have had the pleasure to read in
a long time."
"Thank you, Wilson."

Glaring in its absence....STILL nothing of substance given to support your
shaman.

BTW Charlie, yes your rec.gardens.organic newsgroup is "Deader than a
Hammer......SAD" as you so note. As to why? Personally I think it is the
requisite sermons and proselytizing your tribe tends to do. Maybe the
decline is because of the "teabags" the tribe is leaving to mark
the trail back to camp, or perhaps its the "little red book" the tribe
passes out at the advocacy group meetings? This outlines your only M.O. so
far.

Regardless of why Charlie, all your Shaman has got is lots of Faulty
Analogy, then fringe talk, followed by Ad Hominem attacks. All the while,
the lynch mob hangs back, hoping to snipe one in there when no one is
looking
as demonstrated here

As for this great pearl of wisdom you posted in
your organic newsgroup:

...", but for those who are new, or want to learn something
new, aren't we beholden to correct ignorance and false information
when we encounter it, sheldon, things garden monsanto
worshippers (credit to phorbin)...different perspectives are what we
offer.
Charlie"

A perspective is much different than fact and yes, we are
beholden. "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance
and conscientious stupidity._ MLK Jr.

I still hold hope for your shaman. The lynch mob? not so much nowadays.

Gunner

I am amused that you search my postings to use as fuel for your
"sophomoric" "rebuttals". Am I that dangerous that you and your
handlers feel I, and those you proclaim "shaman", must be silenced?
What is your agenda, g-man? For whom do you shill, eh? Still on the
payroll?

To some, you may appear to be proficient at stringing together quotes
and "research", and trying to associate and link things that you
scarce understand........ but you may not be quite as good as you
believe you are.....

How's this for ad hominem and to the point.....

Fsck off, both you, and your handlers. You bore me.

Charlie

The author has marked this message not to be archived. This post will be deleted on November 22, 2009.

---

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:38:44 -0600, Charlie wrote:

Fsck off, both you, and your handlers. You bore me.

Oh get to the point, Charlie. ;-)

The author has marked this message not to be archived. This post will be deleted on November 22, 2009.

---

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:59:24 -0800, Steve wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:38:44 -0600, Charlie wrote:

Fsck off, both you, and your handlers. You bore me.

Oh get to the point, Charlie. ;-)

HEY, Steve!! Long time and all that...stuff. Left coast stuff still
good, my friend? Buddy of mine called yesterday and said if I would
run out, he had a fresh grassfed cow tongue for me. Tuesday will be
pickled tongue sammiches for lunch...I'm peein' meself already!

Ya know, I'll bet that gunney-effer has a bit of a time getting along
with the locals, unless the locals have changed since I was last in
that neck of the woods....

The point is....

Charlie

--

"I am for those who believe in loose delights, I share the midnight
orgies of young men, I dance with the dancers and drink with the
drinkers." ~~~ Walt Whitman

The author has marked this message not to be archived. This post will be deleted on November 22, 2009.

---

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:53:27 -0700, "gunner"
wrote:


Phobic left ya

Does this make you feel superior, to belittle peoples' names, and all
that it implies?

Charlie

sometime in the recent past Gary Woods posted this:
Steve wrote:

Isn't this an Ad Hominem?
/rhetorical/*

Dang! We were hoping you didn't notice that!

I've got to go pull a bunch of Daikons that just love fall growing. First
sample was 18" long by 5" max diameter. Has anybody shredded and
fermented them a la kraut? And after a dismal summer, the fall greens are
going great guns.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
I used some Daikon in my kimchi this summer. The recipe called for Korean
Radishes, but I'm thinking they might be similar. Anyway, a fairly decent
recipe and video found at http://tr.im/EC94 I used anchovies instead of
oysters and Pak Choi that I grew. Better than commercial kimchi that I've
bought before. Good luck.

--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:59:24 -0800, Steve wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:38:44 -0600, Charlie wrote:

Fsck off, both you, and your handlers. You bore me.

Oh get to the point, Charlie. ;-)


The point is....

"I am for those who believe in loose delights, I share the midnight
orgies of young men, I dance with the dancers and drink with the
drinkers." ~~~ Walt Whitman

I'm sure the other residents must enjoy you,

but STILL NO FACTS to support the rants.............

Just little schoolboy squawking from the back of the crowd.

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:53:27 -0700, "gunner"
wrote:


Phobic left ya

Does this make you feel superior, to belittle peoples' names, and all
that it implies?

Charlie

"gunney-effer "

ya gotta practice on that "high and mighty" a bit more, charlie.

The author has marked this message not to be archived. This post will be deleted on November 23, 2009.

---

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:26:06 -0600, Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:59:24 -0800, Steve wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:38:44 -0600, Charlie wrote:

Fsck off, both you, and your handlers. You bore me.

Oh get to the point, Charlie. ;-)

HEY, Steve!! Long time and all that...stuff. Left coast stuff still
good, my friend? Buddy of mine called yesterday and said if I would
run out, he had a fresh grassfed cow tongue for me. Tuesday will be
pickled tongue sammiches for lunch...I'm peein' meself already!

Ya know, I'll bet that gunney-effer has a bit of a time getting along
with the locals, unless the locals have changed since I was last in
that neck of the woods....

The point is....

Charlie

Everything is just fine here, Charlie.
We've just been busy as heck, hence the two day delay in answering
you.

I'm becoming convinced that the Industrial Food lobby is paying visits
to this group...I'm not paranoid, just getting very suspicious.
They are not big fans of the truth as illustrated by the nixing of the
Michael Pollan speech at Cal Poly.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...an-speech.html

In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:59:24 -0800, Steve wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:38:44 -0600, Charlie wrote:

Fsck off, both you, and your handlers. You bore me.

Oh get to the point, Charlie. ;-)


The point is....

"I am for those who believe in loose delights, I share the midnight
orgies of young men, I dance with the dancers and drink with the
drinkers." ~~~ Walt Whitman

I'm sure the other residents must enjoy you,

but STILL NO FACTS to support the rants.............

Just little schoolboy squawking from the back of the crowd.

Look, gunny, you are only a barking dog. There is no reason to talk to
you because you can't listen. You seem to want attention. Unfortunately
for you, it's negative attention.

Grow up and learn to talk.

Until then, you're just pathetic.
--
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

In article . com,
Steve wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:26:06 -0600, Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:59:24 -0800, Steve wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:38:44 -0600, Charlie wrote:

Fsck off, both you, and your handlers. You bore me.

Oh get to the point, Charlie. ;-)

HEY, Steve!! Long time and all that...stuff. Left coast stuff still
good, my friend? Buddy of mine called yesterday and said if I would
run out, he had a fresh grassfed cow tongue for me. Tuesday will be
pickled tongue sammiches for lunch...I'm peein' meself already!

Ya know, I'll bet that gunney-effer has a bit of a time getting along
with the locals, unless the locals have changed since I was last in
that neck of the woods....

The point is....

Charlie

Everything is just fine here, Charlie.
We've just been busy as heck, hence the two day delay in answering
you.

I'm becoming convinced that the Industrial Food lobby is paying visits
to this group...I'm not paranoid, just getting very suspicious.
They are not big fans of the truth as illustrated by the nixing of the
Michael Pollan speech at Cal Poly.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...iness-pressure
s-school-to-nix-michael-pollan-speech.html

Well, I'm not buying anymore Harris Ranch beef. What a jerk David E Wood
is. If he had half a brain, he would have asked the college to schedule
Gary Tauber, author of Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the
Controversial Science of Diet and Health, to present a strong argument
for more meat (not produced as it currently is) and less carbs.
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-...ce/dp/14000334
62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257820438&sr=1-1
Then the students would have been exposed to 2 complimentary concepts of
health. Babbit strickes again.

The author has marked this message not to be archived. This post will be deleted on November 24, 2009.

---

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:44:12 -0800, William Rose
wrote:

Then the students would have been exposed to 2 complimentary concepts of
health. Babbit strickes again.

Well, that's just the point.
Stifling opposing views is hardly the way to gain share.