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Old 09-07-2007, 06:37 PM posted to austin.gardening,rec.gardens
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Default Live oaks [and Ashe junipers]

"Dave" wrote in message
nk.net...
Read something about the juniper ashe are not native to TX at all.
Rather, a dubious transplant from some foreign European country.

Have also read many times about how juniper ashe hogs groundwater flow in
many places.


Both cases are wrong. Ashe juniper is native to the Texas hill country.
Junipers don't use any more water than any other tree of similar size. They
are not dormant in winter, so they might use more water than deciduous
trees during those months. As "cat daddy" said, the problem with junipers
is when they begin "forming dense woodlands containing only cedar, bare
soil, and rock". The water just runs off into the ravines, creeks, rivers,
and lakes and carries soil with it.

[snip]
If the water loss is so drastic due to juniper ashe, why do adjacent live
oaks continue even if adjacent to same? Makes me believe there's more to
this than what is publicized for our perusal. Or, rather, tainted with
some irrational prejudice towards the juniper ashe.


Bingo! I have murdered several hundreds, if not thousands, of Ashe juniper
trees. However, I don't hate them. For an alternative perspective on the
Ashe
juniper, see "Untwisting the Cedar, the myths & culture of the Ashe juniper
tree" at: http://members.toast.net/juniper/Ashe%20juniper.html The author
is an expert on Central Texas native plants. She is trying to provide some
balance to the anti-cedar (anti-juniper) hysteria. [I'm repeating a
reference from 2005].

Most of the problem comes from them clearing of ALL trees from the land,
overgrazing, and the suppression of fire.

As far as Selah Ranch, Bamberger did a lot more than just selectively clear
junipers. He claims he was told, when he purchased his land, it was one of
the worst (most abused) pieces of ranch land in the area.

jjhnsn




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Old 09-07-2007, 06:45 PM posted to austin.gardening,rec.gardens
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Default Live oaks

Like most good thinga, an over abundace may produce some side effects. I
lost 3 trees I planted because of the heavy rains. The tree were not
established and root rot set in. I believe you'll be okay once the rain lets
up and the ground drains some.


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Old 09-07-2007, 06:58 PM posted to austin.gardening,rec.gardens
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Default Live oaks [and Ashe junipers]


"Omelet" wrote in message newsmp_omelet- Cedars
hog a lot of ground water.

That said, I have one old growth Cedar tree in my yard that is around
16" at the base.

It gets to live. ;-)


You can rest easy, Om. Your Ashe juniper tree uses no more water that other
trees of equivalent size, and a lot less than some. It does not go
completely dormant in winter, so it might use a bit more water in the winter
months than a deciduous tree.

As "cat daddy" said, the problem with junipers is when they begin "forming
dense woodlands containing only cedar, bare
soil, and rock". The water just runs off into the ravines, creeks, rivers,
and lakes and carries soil with it.

Juniper trees are popular landscape plants in many parts of the country. The
Ashe juniper is not however, because of its irregular shape.

jjhnsn



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Old 09-07-2007, 07:09 PM posted to austin.gardening,rec.gardens
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Default Live oaks [and Ashe junipers]

In article ,
"James Lee Johnson" wrote:

"Omelet" wrote in message newsmp_omelet- Cedars
hog a lot of ground water.

That said, I have one old growth Cedar tree in my yard that is around
16" at the base.

It gets to live. ;-)


You can rest easy, Om. Your Ashe juniper tree uses no more water that other
trees of equivalent size, and a lot less than some. It does not go
completely dormant in winter, so it might use a bit more water in the winter
months than a deciduous tree.


Thanks.


As "cat daddy" said, the problem with junipers is when they begin "forming
dense woodlands containing only cedar, bare
soil, and rock". The water just runs off into the ravines, creeks, rivers,
and lakes and carries soil with it.

Juniper trees are popular landscape plants in many parts of the country. The
Ashe juniper is not however, because of its irregular shape.

jjhnsn


I think mine is rather pretty, but it is HYOOGE!

I ought to take a jpeg or two.

The only bigger tree in my yard is an ancient mesquite.

Lots of Live Oaks out back.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson
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Old 10-07-2007, 05:28 PM posted to austin.gardening,rec.gardens
dt dt is offline
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Default Live oaks [and Ashe junipers]

Omelet wrote:

In article ,
"James Lee Johnson" wrote:


"Omelet" wrote in message newsmp_omelet- Cedars
hog a lot of ground water.

That said, I have one old growth Cedar tree in my yard that is around
16" at the base.

It gets to live. ;-)


You can rest easy, Om. Your Ashe juniper tree uses no more water that other
trees of equivalent size, and a lot less than some. It does not go
completely dormant in winter, so it might use a bit more water in the winter
months than a deciduous tree.



Thanks.


As "cat daddy" said, the problem with junipers is when they begin "forming
dense woodlands containing only cedar, bare
soil, and rock". The water just runs off into the ravines, creeks, rivers,
and lakes and carries soil with it.

Juniper trees are popular landscape plants in many parts of the country. The
Ashe juniper is not however, because of its irregular shape.

jjhnsn



I think mine is rather pretty, but it is HYOOGE!

I ought to take a jpeg or two.

The only bigger tree in my yard is an ancient mesquite.

Lots of Live Oaks out back.


Mesquite? Weren't those brought from Mexico by cattle? ;-)

DT
(just stirrin' the compost)



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Old 10-07-2007, 06:47 PM posted to austin.gardening,rec.gardens
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Default Live oaks [and Ashe junipers]

In article ,
dt wrote:

The only bigger tree in my yard is an ancient mesquite.

Lots of Live Oaks out back.


Mesquite? Weren't those brought from Mexico by cattle? ;-)

DT
(just stirrin' the compost)


Beast. ;-)

It' drops good grillin' wood when it drops dead branches!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:02 AM posted to austin.gardening,rec.gardens
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Default Live oaks

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:29:43 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

BTW
Regarding water and the requirements of live oak. If you look at the wood
of a live oak in the cross section the vessels within the increment appear
as upside down tornados. The tree is a ring porous trees. Thus stating
that the tree takes in large amounts of water during the time of the early
or spring wood and then a moderate amount of water during the time of the
latewood or summer wood. Too much water about the woody roots could
stimulate woody root decay or root rot. Just a thought.

Our local live oak, _Q. fusiformis_, is diffuse-porous, as is _Q.
virginiana_. So I've been told, anyway, by a reputable source, and it
fits what I've seen of the trees.

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT
(in Austin, where this thread originated)
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