I often tell people the best thing they can do for their trees is
improve their soil. My suggestion for the most low-tech, low-cost
approach is to mulch the root zone. I sometimes tell them to add
worms for even more benefit.

My question: would it be a mistake to suggest buying a box of worms
at the bait shop? Recent posts I saw somewhere mentioned that there
are different types of worms that all look about the same, but some
would be suited to a compost pile and some wouldn't. Makes me wonder
if fish-bait worms would be able to plow through our soil and help
carry the mulch downward like I thought.

Thanks,
Keith
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html

Babberney wrote:

I often tell people the best thing they can do for their trees is
improve their soil. My suggestion for the most low-tech, low-cost
approach is to mulch the root zone. I sometimes tell them to add
worms for even more benefit.

My question: would it be a mistake to suggest buying a box of worms
at the bait shop? Recent posts I saw somewhere mentioned that there
are different types of worms that all look about the same, but some
would be suited to a compost pile and some wouldn't. Makes me wonder
if fish-bait worms would be able to plow through our soil and help
carry the mulch downward like I thought.

What's that saying: "If you build it, they will come"? ;-)

Seriously, my experience with earthworms is that if you improve the
soil, they'll show up. If you "plant" worms and conditions aren't
right, they'll light out for other parts.

Dale

"Babberney" Makes me wonder
if fish-bait worms would be able to plow through our soil and help
carry the mulch downward like I thought.

Thanks,
Keith

Am not an expert on worms by any means, but I do buy bait. Some bait
worms might work, but some definitely wouldn't.

Regular small earthworms appear to be just like those I find in our flower
beds, so look at the bait, if they are like regular worms, I think they
would work.

Night crawlers are a very large earth worm and have a flat hear (or is it
the tail). They may be about as big around as a wooden pencil, and up to
five or six inches long. These definitely won't live. They are a cold
weather creature and quickly die in the heat. I have to keep them in the
fridge if I save them from one week end to the next.
Don't use them.

Then there is something I see called "red wigglers", which is a skinny red
worm a couple inches long. I never buy them nor have I ever seen them in
the natural state. I rather doubt if they would do much good if they even
lived.

That's all al I know.

In article
C153A08F69A5F7A7.BCC8A509612B0CB1.0C641A4AE6055B1 ,
(Babberney) wrote:

I often tell people the best thing they can do for their trees is
improve their soil. My suggestion for the most low-tech, low-cost
approach is to mulch the root zone. I sometimes tell them to add
worms for even more benefit.

My question: would it be a mistake to suggest buying a box of worms
at the bait shop? Recent posts I saw somewhere mentioned that there
are different types of worms that all look about the same, but some
would be suited to a compost pile and some wouldn't. Makes me wonder
if fish-bait worms would be able to plow through our soil and help
carry the mulch downward like I thought.

Thanks,
Keith

I have benefited greatly from some of your posts (uncovered through google
searches on trees in general) so I will try and return the favor. I did a
search through AGRICOLA for earthworms and hit about 751 records. There
is very little published work on earthworm introduction in isolation. In
general the published data sometimes supports benefits of introduction of
earthworms and sometimes does not. The interactions are quite complex
(benefits/negative effects are very species specific both with respect to
the earthworm and the plant under study). UT austin is not an AG school
so much of this literature is not on campus and we do not have online
subscriptions to most of the AG journals.

Web information that makes the same points as the published data is
outlined below.

I do not know what worms they sell as fish bait if it is Lumbricus
terrestris it is probably fine but there are some documented dangers of
introduction of ³foreign earthworms²
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...arthworms.html
and here
http://www.stolaf.edu/depts/biology/...le2001202.html

An Extensive study on two forests illustrates how simply difference in the
management history shows significant differences in the changes that
earthworms bring about:
http://www.ecostudies.org/research/r.../grofrep2.html

For more general info:


Nice simple definitions of technical earthworm type (epigeic ,endogeic
etc) , profiles of several californian worms and their effect can be found
he
http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/worms/

these two sites answer several general questions, species count, effect of
various crop management techniques (fertilization, tillage etc) on
earthworm count

http://www.crop.cri.nz/curresea/soil/worms.htm
http://res2.agr.gc.ca/london/faq/earth-terre_e.htm


Since you are an arborist your general points for a lay client for the
beneficial effects (if you still beleive they are only beneficial) is
found he

http://danr.ucop.edu/ihrmp/oak99.htm

also the following sites support beneficial effect of earthworms.
http://www.biodiversity.csiro.au/2nd...earthworms.htm
http://www.msue.msu.edu/msue/imp/modtt/modtte.html
http://fadr.msu.ru/rodale/agsieve/txt/vol7/art4.html
http://fadr.msu.ru/rodale/agsieve/txt/vol7/art5.html

So even though it is generally dogma in organic circles that earthworms do
only good it is clear that sometimes they can do harm or may be of no
benefit at all. Taken together it is clear that there is no one answer
wrt to earthworm introduction that is universally true for all plant
species.

Roland

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:47:09 -0600, (Joe Doe)
wrote:
(extensive resources snipped)

So even though it is generally dogma in organic circles that earthworms do
only good it is clear that sometimes they can do harm or may be of no
benefit at all. Taken together it is clear that there is no one answer
wrt to earthworm introduction that is universally true for all plant
species.

Roland
Thanks, Roland (and Dale and bobwhite). I guess I should stick to
telling people to mulch and let the worms take care of themselves. I
must confess I still have a lot of reading to do to completely process
the volumes of info from Roland, but in the short term I'll go with
what I know.

k
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html

If you ever get re-interested in vermicluture type info, I've used these
4 listservs and they've always had good worm feedback.

=
=

Composting Council
"Cornell University E-Mail-List Server T02"
Mulch-L
"L-Soft list server at University of Kentucky (1.8d)"
Organic Gardening
"Lyris List Manager"
Permacluture


Babberney wrote:
=

I often tell people the best thing they can do for their trees is
improve their soil. My suggestion for the most low-tech, low-cost
approach is to mulch the root zone. I sometimes tell them to add
worms for even more benefit.
=

My question: would it be a mistake to suggest buying a box of worms
at the bait shop? Recent posts I saw somewhere mentioned that there
are different types of worms that all look about the same, but some
would be suited to a compost pile and some wouldn't. Makes me wonder
if fish-bait worms would be able to plow through our soil and help
carry the mulch downward like I thought.
=

Thanks,
Keith
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please =
visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbo=
r.com/consumer/consumer.html

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html

Well I raise and sell earthworms and you are right. Bait worms, especially
red wigglers are what they call compost or manure worms, they like compost
pile environment. I also raise European Nightcrawlers and they would work
better. There is also a Brown Nose Worm that would do well, I could special
order those.

You would need to mulch the tree for them to thrive, unfortunately, a
compost that was hot could damage the tree, and that is normally what the
worms like semihot compost. So there is the dilemna. I would use a well
composted tree bark mulch or something like that. You could also set up a
good compost pile introduce the worms, let it set for at least 3 months and
then place that around the tree, with the worms in it.

Got to be careful with established trees cause the hot compost can give them
diseases, its gotta be not hot, more wood matter or other matter that does
not have much nitrogen.

If you want to buy worms in the Austin Area we have them and the best
selection of herbs in town.

Gardens of the Ancients Herb Emporium and Nursery
4806 Yager Lane
512-272-9062


"Babberney" wrote in message
news:C153A08F69A5F7A7.BCC8A509612B0CB1.0C641A4AE60 ...
I often tell people the best thing they can do for their trees is
improve their soil. My suggestion for the most low-tech, low-cost
approach is to mulch the root zone. I sometimes tell them to add
worms for even more benefit.

My question: would it be a mistake to suggest buying a box of worms
at the bait shop? Recent posts I saw somewhere mentioned that there
are different types of worms that all look about the same, but some
would be suited to a compost pile and some wouldn't. Makes me wonder
if fish-bait worms would be able to plow through our soil and help
carry the mulch downward like I thought.

Thanks,
Keith
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please
visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit
http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html