Is it possible for a male holly to have any berries? I've got several
hollies, some of which I bought from reputable sources as male (named
varieties - and I know that you cannot tell the sex by the name, these were
ones which said "a male holly ..." on the label). The first year I planted
them all in the garden I had lots of berries on the females, none on the
"males". Last year far fewer on the females, a few odd berries on a couple
of the "males". This year just a fine sprinkling of berries on all of them
(both sexes) bar one (male). Can they change sex?
Hayley

On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:34:24 -0000, "hayley"
wrotc:

Is it possible for a male holly to have any berries? I've got several
hollies, some of which I bought from reputable sources as male (named
varieties - and I know that you cannot tell the sex by the name, these were
ones which said "a male holly ..." on the label). The first year I planted
them all in the garden I had lots of berries on the females, none on the
"males". Last year far fewer on the females, a few odd berries on a couple
of the "males". This year just a fine sprinkling of berries on all of them
(both sexes) bar one (male). Can they change sex?
Hayley

Cannabis sativa is a dioecious plant.

Those who grow it for its psychotropic properties have in recent
years developed a style of growing called "sin semilla" (without
seeds). This requires identifying the sex of seedlings as they flower
and promptly removing all the male plants.

Some plants identified making a first showing of female flowers
occasionally (and some cultivars were more prone than others),
subsequently and surreptitiously produced male flowers as a nasty
surprise. A hermie!

Window sill and lazy growers don't like going through the palaver
involved with the segregation of the sexes and some seed companies are
now producing what they call "feminised seeds" with a (legally
qualified) assurance that almost all the seeds would grow into female
plants.

The plants aren't female, they are in fact stabilised hermaphrodites
where the male flowers are purported to form really late so the seed
has no time to set. That is what one of the companies says.

Not so long ago (whether or not it was a scam I don't know as I
never heard of anyone having satisfactory results), a firm produced
something which, rather ridiculously, included the words "magic" and
"liquid" in the name. It was purported to be a pre-treatment soak for
seeds which would feminise them. It smelled extremely powerful on the
chemical front and reminded me of school days in the chemistry lab and
the smell of the fruitier aldehydes.

So, reaching the tail of a shaggy dog, when you ask (in respect of
Ilex):

Can they change sex?

I suggest that it may be possible to manipulate their sex and that
perhaps, only perhaps, when order is restored and they aren't stressed
out by this or that, they will resort to the predisposition of their
gender chromosomes.

Hermaphrodism, as a response in dioecious plants is, I believe, a
safety measure. Perhaps it sacrifices the benefits of a good genetic
mix with a guarantee that seeds will be set come what may - short of
conditions getting sufficiently harsh to cause an early demise.

This knowledge has made me quite circumspect with people who sell
dioecious plants guaranteed to be once sex or the other unless it is
already proven by flowering.

With regards Holly in the wild, is there a preponderance of one sex
over the other? Did the nurserymen get fed up binning so many (already
fairly mature) plants?

Those who are more clued up in botany might be able to comment on
whether the following blurb concocted by The Dutch Passion Seed
Company makes any real sense or whether it is a load of flannel for
the gullible: For me the telling phrase is " ..... except for the
predisposition in the gender chromosomes".

It all sounds to me like enforced perversion. A genuine and content
female being bagged by another genuine female which has been stressed
out to the extent that she has resorted to acquiring a few male gonads
and making it with anything that slightly resembles (including self).

The produce of this union? Apparently a load of babies who want to be
girls!

quote
In an experiment done in 1999 we grew 15 varieties of "feminized"
seeds. We started with 30 seeds per variety. The goals we 1) to
determine the percentages of female, male, and hermaphroditic plants.
2) to compare the uniformity (homogeneity) among plants from
"feminized" seeds with those grown from "regular" seeds.

1. The results were excellent. Nine out of fifteen varieties had 100%
female offspring. Percentages of female plants from the other 6
varieties were between 80 and 90%. These plants were all
hermaphrodites, producing their male flowers at the end of their life
cycle. Seed-setting hardly took place. No males were found.

2. Approximately 70% of the plants of varieties grown from "feminized"
seeds were far more uniform than plants grown from "regular" seeds of
the same variety. About 20% of the varieties were a little more
uniform, while in 10% of the varieties no difference in uniformity was
seen.

From literature and our own findings it appears that the growth of a
male or female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the
gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors. The
environmental factors that influence gender a

a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
a higher humidity will give more females.
a lower temperature will give more females.
more blue light will give more females.

Fewer hours of light will give more females. It is important to start
these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two
or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.

To produce our feminized seeds, we start with selected female clones.
Under standard conditions these female clones do not produce any male
flowers. By the method we found, [ed. ermm, Yes?] we are able to have
these female clones produce abundant male flowers and pollen (see
photos). The pollen thus produced we use for the production of our
"feminized" seeds.

/quote

So when I am looking for a partner for my Rhamnoides (once I know
what sex it is), how seriously can I take the following:

Cultivars available:-
a) 'Leikora' (female) developed in the former East Germany.
b) 'Pollmix' (male) a selected pollinator.

?

Huss


Grow a little garden

On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:38:13 +0000, Hussein M.
wrotc:

With regards Holly in the wild, is there a preponderance of one sex
over the other? Did the nurserymen get fed up binning so many (already
fairly mature) plants?

Forgot to mention. With C. sativa, vegetative propagation (cuttings)
have the same sex as the plant from which the material was taken.

Same with Ilex?

Hussein

Grow a little garden

On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:03:29 +0000, Hussein M.
wrotc:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:38:13 +0000, Hussein M.
wrotc:

With regards Holly in the wild, is there a preponderance of one sex
over the other? Did the nurserymen get fed up binning so many (already
fairly mature) plants?

Forgot to mention. With C. sativa, vegetative propagation (cuttings)
have the same sex as the plant from which the material was taken.

Same with Ilex?

Remind me not to make a habit of talking to myself!

Vegetative propagation of Ilex aquifolium does seem a little
arduous:

Cuttings of almost ripe wood with a heel, August in a shaded position
in a cold frame. Leave for 12 months before potting up.
Layering in October. Takes 2 years.

Huss


Grow a little garden

In article , Hussein M.
writes

Cannabis sativa is a dioecious plant.

Those who grow it for its psychotropic properties have in recent
years developed a style of growing called "sin semilla" (without
seeds). This requires identifying the sex of seedlings as they flower
and promptly removing all the male plants.

Why that way around? Why not grow only male plants? Are the female
plants better?

Can't one just remove the flowers?

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/

In article , Hussein M.
writes
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:38:13 +0000, Hussein M.
wrotc:

With regards Holly in the wild, is there a preponderance of one sex
over the other? Did the nurserymen get fed up binning so many (already
fairly mature) plants?

Forgot to mention. With C. sativa, vegetative propagation (cuttings)
have the same sex as the plant from which the material was taken.

Same with Ilex?

Same with any dioecious plant
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/

In article , Hussein M.
writes
Remind me not to make a habit of talking to myself!

Vegetative propagation of Ilex aquifolium does seem a little
arduous:

Cuttings of almost ripe wood with a heel, August in a shaded position
in a cold frame. Leave for 12 months before potting up.
Layering in October. Takes 2 years.

Presumably explains why they're so expensive to buy!
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/

On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:16:34 +0000, Kay Easton
wrotc:

In article , Hussein M.
writes

Cannabis sativa is a dioecious plant.

Those who grow it for its psychotropic properties have in recent
years developed a style of growing called "sin semilla" (without
seeds). This requires identifying the sex of seedlings as they flower
and promptly removing all the male plants.

Why that way around? Why not grow only male plants? Are the female
plants better?

Can't one just remove the flowers?

Are you really interested?!

The psychotropic chemicals (amongst them THC) are produced by little
glands with a technical name beginning with trach ....? (Can't be
bothered to look it up). These are most concentrated on the bracts of
the female flowers. All parts of the plant, both male and female
contain cannabinoids but the female bracts are the richest.

The seeds contain some THC but they are purported to give one a
headache and have an annoying habit of going pop when burning. In the
old hippy days the ritual of rolling the seeds out of the grass on a
sloping surface could result in a varying quantities of smokable
material. A scruffy "deal" could result in a bag almost entirely of
seeds which had fallen to the bottom of some bin or other.

I think that answers your question. All said and done, Cannabis is a
plant of very many uses and it is a shame that twentieth century homo
sapiens has such a childish and immature attitude to it. Imagine a
country declaring war on a plant! Mind you, that particular country,
lately en fevered by a bout of hubris, seems singularly unsuccessful
of late in prosecuting a successful war.

There is no question in my mind that THC (quite apart from the
noxious substances consumed with it), is bad for a fit and sane human
being.

Even if you eradicate the accompanying noxious substances
customarily ingested with the drug (for example by dissolving the fat
soluble THC in butter and cooking with it), the way in which
cannabinoids monkey with your brain synapses cannot be good
physiologically, psychologically, psychically or spiritually (if you
wish to draw distinctions between the latter three). Psyche: From the
Greeks, who understood by the word an encompassing meaning best
conveyed in English by the word 'soul' (I am led to believe).

There is actually a cannabinoid produced naturally by the mammal
brain (called by a different name). Ingestion of the 'exotic'
cannabinoid tends to make the brain stop making its own. The human
(naturally occurring) cannabinoid is all tied in with dopamine,
serotonin and the other chemical transmitters which regulate amidst a
labyrinth of checks and balances, how much our 'reward centre' is
activated.

It's not true that cannabis is not addictive. Maybe not in the same
brutal physiological way that heroin/sugar are, but certainly in a way
which preys on the vulnerability of those who seek delusional escape
from the experience called life which they find, for whatever reason,
unhappy or uninspiring. Cannabis withdrawal even has a street name
"The gyps".

So, instead of becoming artists or whatever, some of those afflicted
by angst (recognised or as yet unrecognised) take the easy option of
sinking into an artificially induced bicameral state. The subconscious
world of dreams and delusions which render impotent the more obviously
beneficial and constructive experience of the (always existing and
important) primordial and instinctual. Wot brought us thus far. The
selfish gene. Whatever.

There's loads of new stuff coming out from the new neuro imaging and
brain scanning technologies. Surprising corroboration of Jane's
bi-cameral mind theory - which people seemed to find so unsettling and
keen to debunk.

It is anecdotal that regular ingestion of foreign (non-human)
cannabinoids tends to deprive the consumer of the facility to dream.

No. Sorry Stoner. Gawping at the tv and giggling with discrimination
blown to ribbons, filled with an inexplicable surge of self worth and
optimism which will be out like the tide in given time, is no
substitute for a dream that is truly free and in more than one sense.

Hussein
Grow a little garden

There's loads of new stuff coming out from the new neuro imaging and
brain scanning technologies. Surprising corroboration of Jane's
bi-cameral mind theory - which people seemed to find so unsettling and
keen to debunk.

Hussein

I know it's getting a bit off topic from gardening, but I'm curious - what is
Jane's bi-cameral mind theory?
--
Drakanthus.


(Spam filter: Include the word VB anywhere in the subject line or emails
will never reach me.)

On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:56:38 +0100, "Drakanthus"
wrotc:

I know it's getting a bit off topic from gardening, but I'm curious - what is
Jane's bi-cameral mind theory?

Off you go - I'm sure there is someone who can discuss it with you
elsewhere if you are interested.

Neuroimaging, auditory hallucinations, and the bicameral mind
(Canadian Medical Association)
http://collection.nlc-bnc.ca/100/201...sue-3/0239.htm

CONSCIOUSNESS: THE END OF AUTHORITY
http://www.neo-tech.com/discovery/nt3.html
("New Agers" take flights of fancy based on it)

Huss



Grow a little garden