In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow writes:
|
| Since the spores are still in the UK (as they are worldwide), it is
| immaterial whether the spores reproduce in the gut of mammals or not.

No, it is not, if you think about it. If it isn't, then the main source
of spores in the UK dried up over a century back, and the number of
viable spores in the soil will be dropping as time goes on. If it is
a normal gut commensual, then the spore level might be maintained in
soil to which animals have access.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"David D Stretch" wrote in
message news:xn0epc9tx16vrs000---

... Additionally, when I
sliced open my finger 3 days after getting back in March, the A&E
department, as it was being stiched up, asked if I'd had Typhoid jabs,
and when I said the last one I had had was back in 1980 after being
bitten by a rat, they said they didn't think I needed one now. I am
over 50, though.

Perhaps they think we oldies aren't worth bothering to save :-)

Mary

Perhaps they think we oldies aren't worth bothering to save :-)

Mary



When is 'old'?

I can think of some younger than me not worth saving :-((

Mike


--
------------------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message

I also have no lymph nodes under one arm so in theory am at danger
from the
slightest bite, scratch, sting, burn or other damage and if I
sustain such
damage should have an antibiotic shot as a matter of urgency.

That's the latest thinking. I expect it will change.

I have been given a health warnings for those with no lymph nodes is
recent months and it didn't involve an outomatic jab.

Different health advisers have different approaches.

It was to use
antiseptic to clean any wound (even a scratch) and to then dress the
wound and to use an antiseptic cream in association with the dressing.

That was forbidden by my advisers :-)

Rose thorns are said to be the most dangerous for the development of
cellulitis.

:-)

I too have always been careless about my own health but given the
right rollicking I got about what happens with cellulitis and how
easily and quickly it can develop from even a small scratch, I now
follow the routine. Why take the risk when the rememdy is so easy?

I drive a car. I eat raw food - including raw eggs. I breathe unfiletered
air.

We all have lectures about risks. Life isn't without risks.

I want to live well and not spend my life bandaged, smelling of TCP or at
the end of a needle. I have damage to my hand and arm most days ...

Mary

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:44:36 +0530, Vivek.M wrote:
Here's another nice link from a online microbiology text:
http://www.bact.wisc.edu/Microtextbo...icle&artid=139
Nice book - looks interesting - has lots of basic stuff on microbes -
quite cool.

I'll quote the interesting bits with regard to C.Tetani :

"These catalytic proteins are some of the most toxic substances known
with lethal doses for a mouse being between 0.1 to 1 ng/kg of body
weight."

"Before vaccination greatly reduced the incidence of tetanus, any deep
wound was a potential breeding ground for this pathogen."

"Today, tetanus is most common in the elderly who have not kept
current with their vaccinations. Interestingly, gardening is an
activity that tends to be correlated with cases of tetanus."

"Microbes of the Clostridium genus are Gram positive and strictly
anaerobic, fermenting a wide variety of organic molecules. They are
capable of forming endospores and because of this are ubiquitous in
the environment. About one-third of soil samples contain C. tetani,
and C. botulinum is equally common. "

"Early diagnosis and treatment are important to prevent fatality in
each case. Assistance in breathing may be necessary in severe cases,
and this may be necessary for weeks or months."

"Boosters are given to adults in the form of the tetanus and
diphtheria vaccine every 10 years. "

Anyway, hopefully ppl will update their license and maybe this could
be added to the URG FAQ, as a cautionary note to newbies to gardening.
I'll mail Mr.Cormaic regarding this. Night all.

I drive a car. I eat raw food - including raw eggs. I breathe unfiletered
air.

We all have lectures about risks. Life isn't without risks.

I want to live well and not spend my life bandaged, smelling of TCP or at
the end of a needle. I have damage to my hand and arm most days ...

Mary


:-))

I did the World Cruise on Aurora between January and March, .........DIDN'T
I SACHA?.... and at one of the Ports of Call, I think if was in Fiji, THAT'S
IN THE PACIFIC SACHA ISNT IT? ...... there was a sign on the dock which said
........

"""Your Safety is in YOUR hands"""""

:-(( Oh if only we could return to these thoughts and responsibilities.
!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike


--
------------------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk

In article ,
Janet Baraclough writes:
|
| You said, above, that the UK source of soil-borne tetanus spores,
| had dried up over a century ago. That is what I (and the websites
| quoted) refute.

No, they don't. They hint that it is wrong, but don't state it.

For example, the claim that spores are found in soil rich in manure
(a) might be based on old data, a commonly repeated myth, or data
from other countries or (b) be due to ingested spores passing through
intact and being concentrated in the manure.

Also, I did not say that. I said that my understanding was that it
is the case. I am aware that it might be wrong, but so far I have
seen nothing beyond vague implications that it might be. That is all
those Web sites do.

| Look up clostridium difficile; which is gut borne and causes gut
| problems in humans (does not produce the symptoms of "lockjaw" tetanus).
| It makes far more people ill than tetanus (in the UK) and is on the
| increase.

Why do you think I said what I said? "The reason that I am uncertain is
that other Clostridium species are common gut bacteria, ...."


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:35:26 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"David D Stretch" wrote in
message news:xn0epc9tx16vrs000---

... Additionally, when I
sliced open my finger 3 days after getting back in March, the A&E
department, as it was being stiched up, asked if I'd had Typhoid jabs,
and when I said the last one I had had was back in 1980 after being
bitten by a rat, they said they didn't think I needed one now. I am
over 50, though.

Perhaps they think we oldies aren't worth bothering to save :-)

Sadly, you are right.

Well, I was joking, that hasn't been our experience. Spouse at 67 has just
been scheduled to have major surgery because he is relatively young and very
healthy, fit and active.

Mary

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from Vivek.M contains these words:



"Boosters are given to adults in the form of the tetanus and
diphtheria vaccine every 10 years. "

No adults in the UK get, or require, booster vaccinations against
diptheria; because it died out here decades ago. In other countries, or
climates, that may not be the case. When are you going to understand,
that health or gardening advice VARIES according to local circumstances.
What is appropriate for America, may be completely inappropriate in
India , or Britain.

This is a UK group, about UK conditions.

Anyway, hopefully ppl will update their license

We don't have health licenses here.


and maybe this could
be added to the URG FAQ, as a cautionary note to newbies to gardening.
I'll mail Mr.Cormaic regarding this.

It would not be appropriate to add UK-irrelevant "advice" to the urg
FAQ, since urg's charter limits it to discussions relevant to gardening
in the UK. .

Hurrah!

Mary

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:29:58 +0100, Janet Baraclough wrote:
"Boosters are given to adults in the form of the tetanus and
diphtheria vaccine every 10 years. "

No adults in the UK get, or require, booster vaccinations against
diptheria; because it died out here decades ago. In other countries, or
climates, that may not be the case. When are you going to understand,
that health or gardening advice VARIES according to local circumstances.
What is appropriate for America, may be completely inappropriate in
India , or Britain.

Janet: "Boosters are given to adults in the form of the tetanus and
diphtheria vaccine every 10 years" I was quoteing from the web site
page, therefore i didn't edit out the diphtheria bit..What i meant was
that i'd tell Mr.Cormaic to include stuff on Tetanus. Diphtheria would
have no releavance to gardening anyway..

This is a UK group, about UK conditions.

Anyway, hopefully ppl will update their license

We don't have health licenses here.
This was a metaphor *sigh* We don't have a Tet-vac license either.

It would not be appropriate to add UK-irrelevant "advice" to the urg
FAQ, since urg's charter limits it to discussions relevant to gardening
in the UK. .
I thought the whole tetanus thing was UK relevant which is why i
posted.
Here's a bit from YOUR charter:
"Please note that this exclusion relates to subject matter, not
people, and posters from around the globe will be welcome to
participate in or initiate discussion of UK-relevant topics."

Anyway, i dislike the constant reminders and the whole thing isn't
worth it so i'll quit URG/RG completely. The tech channels are a lot
more comfortable. It would make more sense to edit your charter and
knock out the "around the globe" bit.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow writes:
|
| Since the spores are still in the UK (as they are worldwide), it
is
| immaterial whether the spores reproduce in the gut of mammals or
not.

No, it is not, if you think about it. If it isn't, then the main
source
of spores in the UK dried up over a century back, and the number of
viable spores in the soil will be dropping as time goes on.

The source of spores is still around and unchanged. You can keep
trying to change the goal posts as much as you like but you are
talking through your hat.

A simple google search would tell you that although tetanus IS in fact
rare in the UK, it still occurs and it does so primarily in gardeners
and in heroin addicts. Since I doubt that the heroin addicts got
THEIR tetanus whilst spreading horse manure around the roses or whilst
turning the compost, then the source of spores is still unchanged.

Janet was quite right when she stated that the primary reason for the
lower incidence of Tetanus was because of vaccination. She was
probably thinking only of human vaccination but it is also about
vaccination of animals.

Farmers in the UK still regularly vaccinate animals for Clostridial
diseases, and tetanus is one of the diseases included in that
vacination process.
http://www.noah.co.uk/issues/briefin...armanimals.htm
http://www.organic-vet.reading.ac.uk...str/clostr.htm
http://www.noah.co.uk/issues/briefin...accination.htm
http://www.championvet.com/articles/details.asp?aID=57

If gardeners use manure or grub around in the soil, then they should
be aware that teatanus is still around and it is a danger. The
commonality between heroin addicts and gardeners is that they both
regularly suffer from puncture wounds.

Janet - has it possibly occurred to you, that it's people like you who
create the trolls in a NG. Tetanus is a UK relevant topic - that's
something you don't want to grasp; I suppose that's because you don't
want me here. Well you should SAY SO in no un-certain terms, in your
charter, instead of leading a fellow on! I wouldn't have joined URG if
i thought i was un-welcome and barring a bunch of nice people on this
NG, i find my-self most un-welcome with almost anything i say being
interpreted/mis-interpreted as off-topic merely because i don't happen
to sit in the UK. Madam, i find your behaviour remarkably weird and
don't propose to post to this NG anymore.
Goodbye.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...

"Boosters are given to adults in the form of the tetanus and
diphtheria vaccine every 10 years"

Not in the UK.In the UK we do not get, or require, tetanus boosters
every 10 years.

True.

.What i meant was
that i'd tell Mr.Cormaic to include stuff on Tetanus.

Good luck with "telling Mr Cormaic " to do anything.

LOL!

I thought the whole tetanus thing was UK relevant

The website advice you culled from other countries, is not.

....


Anyway, i dislike the constant reminders and the whole thing isn't
worth it so i'll quit URG/RG completely.

Why not found one for your own area?

Good idea. There's a limit to the number of times a poster can ask
about the same topic, such as growing rasperries in the tropics, and get
the same patient explanation, before the whole group realises it's
being trolled.

:-)

Mary

Janet

"Vivek.M" wrote in message
oups.com...
Janet - has it possibly occurred to you, that it's people like you who
create the trolls in a NG. Tetanus is a UK relevant topic - that's
something you don't want to grasp; I suppose that's because you don't
want me here. Well you should SAY SO in no un-certain terms, in your
charter, instead of leading a fellow on! I wouldn't have joined URG if
i thought i was un-welcome and barring a bunch of nice people on this
NG, i find my-self most un-welcome with almost anything i say being
interpreted/mis-interpreted as off-topic merely because i don't happen
to sit in the UK. Madam, i find your behaviour remarkably weird and
don't propose to post to this NG anymore.
Goodbye.

Janet, I don't find you weird in any way and hadn't noticed you leading
anyone on. He should be so lucky :-)

Mary

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
Janet Baraclough writes:
|
| My understanding is that tetanus does not reproduce in the
intestine of
| mammals, but infects them, and produces spores as the dead body
decomposes.
| That source dried up over a century back.
|
| http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40000432/ also disagrees
with you
|
| "Tetanus
|
| Infection with Clostridium tetani, a spore-forming Gram-positive
| obligate anaerobe. Spores are found in virtually all soil,
particularly
| soil rich in manure, but also in house dust and both animal and
human
| faeces. "

No, it doesn't. It says that the spores are found in those
locations,
and NOT that it reproduces in those locations.

Since the spores are still in the UK (as they are worldwide), it is
immaterial whether the spores reproduce in the gut of mammals or not.

The most likely source of infection for gardeners would in all
likelihood be from a wound sustained whilst gardening and such a wound
could give acess to the spores. I doubt whether too many gardeners
ingest a lot of soil and so don't need to worry about the reproduction
or otherwise of tetanus spores in their gut..

My granny used to say, you have to eat a peck of dirt before you die, so
people were expected to ingest soil.

Alan