In article ,
am says...
Wood with knots can be a nightmare.

Elm's a complete sod. Once you've the knack it's still a complete sod.

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

David in Normandy wrote:

Ah the joys of a wood burning stove. No fuss or mess with a
gas boiler. Just set the thermostat and job done. No
messing about stacking logs, bringing them in everyday and
stacking them next to the stove, then the ongoing task of
starting the fire, topping it up and emptying ashes. That
said, watching the real fire often beats watching
television. Something satisfying about watching the flames
licking around the wood and consuming it. The occasional
highlight too when the wood bangs, spits or sparks.

Some questions for you and/or Rod, since you both use only wood. Can you
tell me how much wood you use in a year --preferably not in cords, since
I've no idea what a cord is. How many logs of what size per day, for
example, and how many days per year? Or a figure in hundredweights. Does
your stove run any radiators (I assume it heats water)? Can you pack the
stove and let it burn slowly for a long period, or is it a case of
feeding a log at a time?

The main reasons for asking are that I'm wondering about going over to
wood as the base fuel for heating, (some)cooking, and hot water, and
wondering about the feasibility, economic and otherwise.

Does anyone know what area of coppiced woodland it would take to be fuel
self-sufficient?

Brian Mitchell

In article ,
David in Normandy writes:
|
| I'm only in my 40's but have little bits of bone growing in
| various places where they shouldn't. Some unfortunately
| into major nerves in my neck and also into my spinal cord.
| Thankfully it went into remission before my date for
| surgery came up so operation on hold. The surgery itself
| carries a risk of paralysis or death, so I'm hoping it
| stays permanently in remission. I just have to take care
| not to jar or inflame the vertebrae. Swinging an axe is
| something I do with care and moderation!

Oh, gosh. With that problem, you are quite right.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Skipweasel" wrote in message
.uk...
In article ,
says...
Having had some trees pruned I now have a pile of logs. Cut to length
but
will need splitting before I can burn them in the grate. I have Holly
and
Willow wood.

Don't burn it, turn it! Get a lathe and start making things.

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

I love the signature and approve of the sentiment above.

I'm a 65-year-old who has heated with wood for almost 30 years now.

A cord, in Michigan, is 4'x4'x8', cut and stacked. However, since stoves
and grates are always smaller than 4' wide, wood is usually cut to lengths
of 16" to 18" or so. We call these "face cords", and they measure
4'x8'x16"-18". Here, the term "cord" refers to the "face cord". My Hardy
Outdoor Wood Furnace takes a log 16" in diameter, 31" long, much to large
and heavy to load into the furnace safely.

We try to cut for our purposes 24" and split everything down to "wife-size"
pieces.

I live in a 40 acre Northern Hardwood Forest and burn everything, from Sugar
Maple, American Beech, White Ash, to Basswood, Hoppes Hornbeam, local Hybrid
Poplar, anything I can get my hands on. I think 10 acres would easily be a
large enough stand if properly managed to glean firewood to support a home
on a continuing basis.

I NEVER burn a piece of wood that will some day become a saw log or has any
other marginal use (ash poles for pruning hooks, for example, or Black
Cherry and Black Walnut that can be trimmed up and used in a wood shop), but
I do burn all larger brush that can't be used or turned on the lathe. By
brush I mean branches large enough to be worth my time. All other "brush"
goes into my 30-year-old brush piles, a haven for many species of wildlife
living in my woods.

I rely mostly on windfalls, and am permitted to cut in my neighbor's woods,
which are extensive, so I've left my little paradise largely untouched over
all these years.

I find the species are different in some ways. Maple should always be split
immediately after felling the tree. If you let it sit for a while it will
go "punk" as we say, rotten, or solidify into a brick-like mass that defies
the sharpest of saws and prove nearly impossible to split by hand. White
Ash, however, splits easily wet or dry. I attempt to split everything I cut
immediately and stack it so the air and sun will dry it. More surface area
the quicker it dries. I don't even cover my very large wood pile. The sun
and wind dry it even through rains and snows.

I've seen charts that list the heat and weight of various woods and quality
as firewood. Please Google for that, as it is informative as to species.

I split everything I need to with a 6-pound sledge hammer and heavy iron
wedges, and I also occasionally use a 7-pound splitting wedge. Anything
that resists the first attempt is put aside and cut into smaller pieces by
chainsaw.

Perhaps it's just my belief, but swinging those mauls and hammers are the
very best exercise imaginable. It opens up your shoulders and back, spine,
hips, and legs. There's not a muscle in the body that isn't benefited by
splitting wood.

Have at it.

Willow is junk. Don't burn any conifer, anything that stays green all
winter, as they are full of pitch and you'll have a chimney fire. Burn only
dry wood, hardwood, and you'll get the best heat for the pound or dollar.
Some species (White Ash) actually seem to burn hotter and longer green and
uncured than others (Maple and Beech). Of course, if the wood is green, it
is wet, and you lose a lot of heat burning that water off before you benefit
from the wood itself. Burning green wood is also a danger for chimney fires.

Safety first.

Good splitting to you.

I know this is a gardening group, and hope this is not off-topic.

In article ,
"williams" writes:
|
| A cord, in Michigan, is 4'x4'x8', cut and stacked. However, since stoves
| and grates are always smaller than 4' wide, wood is usually cut to lengths
| of 16" to 18" or so. We call these "face cords", and they measure
| 4'x8'x16"-18". Here, the term "cord" refers to the "face cord". My Hardy
| Outdoor Wood Furnace takes a log 16" in diameter, 31" long, much to large
| and heavy to load into the furnace safely.

Interesting.

| ... I don't even cover my very large wood pile. The sun
| and wind dry it even through rains and snows.

Fine for you - not much good here :-( Our problem isn't that we get
a lot of rain (though some parts do), but that the evaporation is
minimal (about 11" a year in the south, almost all in summer).

| Willow is junk. Don't burn any conifer, anything that stays green all
| winter, as they are full of pitch and you'll have a chimney fire.

I agree about willow and conifers! Holly is evergreen, and burns well,
however. So is and does holme oak (but it is the very devil to split,
wet or dry).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 27/1/08 20:40, in article ,
"David in Normandy" wrote:

Nick Maclaren says...

In article ,
David in Normandy writes:
|
| I've got a heavy axe to split over-wide logs. Some split
| easily as you say, but it is still hard work. I wouldn't
| want to do more than a few at a time. Not good for
| arthritic joints :-(
| Definitely a job for muscular young men.

Hmm. I am past 60, and DEFINITELY not muscular in the arms!
But I don't have arthritis (only tennis elbow).


I'm only in my 40's but have little bits of bone growing in
various places where they shouldn't. Some unfortunately
into major nerves in my neck and also into my spinal cord.
Thankfully it went into remission before my date for
surgery came up so operation on hold. The surgery itself
carries a risk of paralysis or death, so I'm hoping it
stays permanently in remission. I just have to take care
not to jar or inflame the vertebrae. Swinging an axe is
something I do with care and moderation!

David, this sounds horribly familiar. I have bony spurs growing on my neck
vertebrae and without gentle chiropractic intervention can't walk straight
after a week or so. Yesterday, I did some gentle gardening but it involved
quite a lot of bending and then standing up etc. just to tidy things up and
carry the debris to the wheelbarrow. Later that evening I had a sudden loss
of balance which usually indicates my entire spine is right 'out'. A couple
of weeks ago, I suddenly had a brief period of double vision and feeling
very weak, almost faint. My previous doc wouldn't even arrange for an X-ray
on the grounds that I wouldn't want an operation such as you describe,
whatever happened to show up on the X-ray. The chiropractor *did*
commission an X-ray and while it's not awful, it's not terrifically good,
either.
I wonder if you'd be kind enough to email me about this? (remove weeds from
address) I'd be very glad to hear from someone with similar symptoms,
though yours sound worse than mine are at present.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"williams" writes:
|
| A cord, in Michigan, is 4'x4'x8', cut and stacked. However, since
stoves
| and grates are always smaller than 4' wide, wood is usually cut to
lengths
| of 16" to 18" or so. We call these "face cords", and they measure
| 4'x8'x16"-18". Here, the term "cord" refers to the "face cord". My
Hardy
| Outdoor Wood Furnace takes a log 16" in diameter, 31" long, much to
large
| and heavy to load into the furnace safely.

Interesting.

| ... I don't even cover my very large wood pile. The sun
| and wind dry it even through rains and snows.

Fine for you - not much good here :-( Our problem isn't that we get
a lot of rain (though some parts do), but that the evaporation is
minimal (about 11" a year in the south, almost all in summer).

Yes, a problem there. I'm fortunate to be on high ground near Lake
Michigan, off which comes a usual breeze in most seasons. For years I
carefully covered my wood piles (on top, but never on the sides), but in my
travels up north I noticed the "old-timers" never did that, so I
experimented. There was no need to work to cover my wood, as it seemed to
dry just as efficiently uncovered. Lucky, I am.

I do envy those with woodsheds, but I've not seen the necessity in my
situation. And, I don't burn wood in the house, but in a furnace 95 feet
away, and that beast will burn anything no matter how green or wet, safely.
If I still had a fireplace and grate, I'd have a supply of very dry wood
under a woodshed roof, you bet.

| Willow is junk. Don't burn any conifer, anything that stays green all
| winter, as they are full of pitch and you'll have a chimney fire.

I agree about willow and conifers! Holly is evergreen, and burns well,
however. So is and does holme oak (but it is the very devil to split,
wet or dry).

Red Oak grows here, and splits at a suggestion. What American Elm that
remains after the Dutch Elm Fungus killed most of them, is difficult to
split. Beech can be knotty. I must have 1,000 White Ash in this woods, and
the Emerald Ash Borer is at my doorstep, with the guarantee that every Ash
in the State will die soon. I expect to see evidence this spring in my
woods. This will mean a slow death for many trees, so I know where my
firewood is coming from for the rest of my life. White Ash is rot
resistent, can be stacked for years and not rot, is moderately-good
firewood, and splits as easily as Red Oak. Bad news, good news, I suppose.

Best,

Tim

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Graham Harrison" wrote in
message ...
Having had some trees pruned I now have a pile of logs. Cut to length
but will need splitting before I can burn them in the grate. I have
Holly and Willow wood.

Question is do I split them now or wait until they've cured and then split
them? I'm expecting to have to leave them about 2 years to cure unsplit,
would it speed the process if I split them now?

On a related note, I've looked at local and national hire shop web sites
but can't immediately locate a log splitter. I don't expect to have any
more tree logs coming my way for a good few years so hiring seems to make
more sense then spending something like £200 for a splitter (I know you
can do it by hand and I also know that there are splitters for as little
as £150). I'm in "South Somerset" (between
Yeovil/Frome/Wells/Street/Glastonbury/Radstock and, at a push, Bristol,
Bath, Dorchester, Weymouth.).


The tree surgeon who did the work for us did warn us that the Willow would
take a long time to cure and not burn wonderfully. We don't use the fire
as a primary source so I use wood slowly and can wait for it to cure.

As for splitting, I have tried a maul in the past and not been very
successful. To be frank, I'm worried how much damage I could do (to me,
and surrounding buldings, cars, walls etc. etc) if I were to try with an
axe. Hence the thought about a machine.

The comment about the farmer has bought and idea to mind. One of my
neighbours might be able to help.

Unfortunately it is all cut to a maximum of about a foot. That doesn't
preclude turning it but does restrict what can be done (I have a beautiful
walking stick that was turned by a friend of my father many years ago which
rather directs my thinking).

In message , David in
Normandy writes
Nick Maclaren says...

In article ,
David in Normandy writes:
|
| I've got a heavy axe to split over-wide logs. Some split
| easily as you say, but it is still hard work. I wouldn't
| want to do more than a few at a time. Not good for
| arthritic joints :-(
| Definitely a job for muscular young men.

Hmm. I am past 60, and DEFINITELY not muscular in the arms!
But I don't have arthritis (only tennis elbow).


I'm only in my 40's but have little bits of bone growing in
various places where they shouldn't. Some unfortunately
into major nerves in my neck and also into my spinal cord.
Thankfully it went into remission before my date for
surgery came up so operation on hold. The surgery itself
carries a risk of paralysis or death, so I'm hoping it
stays permanently in remission. I just have to take care
not to jar or inflame the vertebrae. Swinging an axe is
something I do with care and moderation!

small logs then ...

--
geoff

"Graham Harrison" wrote in
message ...

"Graham Harrison" wrote
in message ...
Having had some trees pruned I now have a pile of logs. Cut to length
but will need splitting before I can burn them in the grate. I have
Holly and Willow wood.

Question is do I split them now or wait until they've cured and then
split them? I'm expecting to have to leave them about 2 years to cure
unsplit, would it speed the process if I split them now?

On a related note, I've looked at local and national hire shop web sites
but can't immediately locate a log splitter. I don't expect to have any
more tree logs coming my way for a good few years so hiring seems to make
more sense then spending something like £200 for a splitter (I know you
can do it by hand and I also know that there are splitters for as little
as £150). I'm in "South Somerset" (between
Yeovil/Frome/Wells/Street/Glastonbury/Radstock and, at a push, Bristol,
Bath, Dorchester, Weymouth.).


The tree surgeon who did the work for us did warn us that the Willow would
take a long time to cure and not burn wonderfully. We don't use the fire
as a primary source so I use wood slowly and can wait for it to cure.

As for splitting, I have tried a maul in the past and not been very
successful. To be frank, I'm worried how much damage I could do (to me,
and surrounding buldings, cars, walls etc. etc) if I were to try with an
axe. Hence the thought about a machine.

my experience is that some wood splits better whilst green & some better
when aged & starting to crack. Best way to find out is get a splitting axe &
try a few lengths of wood. If they split first time you are away. If they
are wet & dull cure them & then split. I leave my green fire wood (split)
about 6 months over summer & it is good enough for the fire.

rob

Graham Harrison wrote:
Having had some trees pruned I now have a pile of logs. Cut to length but
will need splitting before I can burn them in the grate. I have Holly and
Willow wood.

Question is do I split them now or wait until they've cured and then split
them? I'm expecting to have to leave them about 2 years to cure unsplit,
would it speed the process if I split them now?

Having failed to do it at the time, fer chrissake split the willow
before it dries. Its a complete ******* to split once it is.


Guess what my afternoon task is today..



On a related note, I've looked at local and national hire shop web sites but
can't immediately locate a log splitter. I don't expect to have any more
tree logs coming my way for a good few years so hiring seems to make more
sense then spending something like �200 for a splitter (I know you can do it
by hand and I also know that there are splitters for as little as �150).
I'm in "South Somerset" (between
Yeovil/Frome/Wells/Street/Glastonbury/Radstock and, at a push, Bristol,
Bath, Dorchester, Weymouth.).


Buy a splitting maul.
Or a bomb if you can find one.


I am using a hatchet and a sledge for the willow. Since the bomb broke.

At least when wedged right in you can knock it out.

Any thing more or less wedge shaped steel will work if it can be driven
in HARD.

The beech I had doesn't need the sledge. It splits (after a year), with
one mega whack from the hatchet, once sawn to 12" long pieces.

Blackthorn, hawthiorn and maple are a shade tougher, as is fruit wood.

Not done holly yet.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"Graham Harrison" writes:
| Having had some trees pruned I now have a pile of logs. Cut to length but
| will need splitting before I can burn them in the grate. I have Holly and
| Willow wood.

Don't bother with the willow - it's trash. It won't keep going until
completely dry, and then it burns to nothing in next to no time.


It will if its hot enough and ewortks well enough in a stove.
Its useable. Not brill, but useable.


| Question is do I split them now or wait until they've cured and then split
| them? I'm expecting to have to leave them about 2 years to cure unsplit,
| would it speed the process if I split them now?

Up to you and yes, respectively.

| On a related note, I've looked at local and national hire shop web sites but
| can't immediately locate a log splitter. I don't expect to have any more
| tree logs coming my way for a good few years so hiring seems to make more
| sense then spending something like �200 for a splitter (I know you can do it
| by hand and I also know that there are splitters for as little as �150).

How many tons of wood you you have? You can split wood with a couple
of hand axes, but buying a couple of wedges and a maul or club hammer
will probably cost you less than hiring a functional mechanical device.
Anything that works is likely to be large and heavy.


Yes. You can split a ton in an afternoon , but thats a lot of work.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

brian mitchell wrote:
David in Normandy wrote:

Ah the joys of a wood burning stove. No fuss or mess with a
gas boiler. Just set the thermostat and job done. No
messing about stacking logs, bringing them in everyday and
stacking them next to the stove, then the ongoing task of
starting the fire, topping it up and emptying ashes. That
said, watching the real fire often beats watching
television. Something satisfying about watching the flames
licking around the wood and consuming it. The occasional
highlight too when the wood bangs, spits or sparks.

Some questions for you and/or Rod, since you both use only wood. Can you
tell me how much wood you use in a year --preferably not in cords, since
I've no idea what a cord is. How many logs of what size per day, for
example, and how many days per year?

I use it not for mainheating, but for extra heating in some very large
rooms. A good fire (open)will get through about two or three large
trivets of wood in an evening. Each one is heavy, but not that heavy -
say 15-20kg,. So lets say 50kg of wood a day per large fire or stove. In
cold weather.



Or a figure in hundredweights.


Maybe a hundredweight a day. Stoves in smaller properties may do much
better.

Does
your stove run any radiators (I assume it heats water)? Can you pack the
stove and let it burn slowly for a long period, or is it a case of
feeding a log at a time?


Either. No rads on my setup.

The main reasons for asking are that I'm wondering about going over to
wood as the base fuel for heating, (some)cooking, and hot water, and
wondering about the feasibility, economic and otherwise.

Does anyone know what area of coppiced woodland it would take to be fuel
self-sufficient?


A lot. One mature beech tree has lasted me half this winter.Thats a
50year old tree..dunno how many to the acre..20 or so? so two a year
means you need 8 acres?

I'd say probably around 5-10 acres of woodland would provide..Willow is
the fastest biomass accreter, but its crap wood. Maple is probably a
decent choice here on clay.

My overall calcs on energy per square mete of land to generate any
biofuel suggests that this is not a particularly efficient way to use
sunlight/land area.

Its also a shame to waste *good* timber on burning..


However if you have the land, and don't care to use it more
efficiently,why not?

Brian Mitchell

williams wrote:
"Skipweasel" wrote in message
.uk...
In article ,
says...
Having had some trees pruned I now have a pile of logs. Cut to length
but
will need splitting before I can burn them in the grate. I have Holly
and
Willow wood.

Don't burn it, turn it! Get a lathe and start making things.

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

I love the signature and approve of the sentiment above.

I'm a 65-year-old who has heated with wood for almost 30 years now.

A cord, in Michigan, is 4'x4'x8', cut and stacked. However, since stoves
and grates are always smaller than 4' wide, wood is usually cut to lengths
of 16" to 18" or so. We call these "face cords", and they measure
4'x8'x16"-18". Here, the term "cord" refers to the "face cord". My Hardy
Outdoor Wood Furnace takes a log 16" in diameter, 31" long, much to large
and heavy to load into the furnace safely.

We try to cut for our purposes 24" and split everything down to "wife-size"
pieces.

I live in a 40 acre Northern Hardwood Forest and burn everything, from Sugar
Maple, American Beech, White Ash, to Basswood, Hoppes Hornbeam, local Hybrid
Poplar, anything I can get my hands on. I think 10 acres would easily be a
large enough stand if properly managed to glean firewood to support a home
on a continuing basis.

I NEVER burn a piece of wood that will some day become a saw log or has any
other marginal use (ash poles for pruning hooks, for example, or Black
Cherry and Black Walnut that can be trimmed up and used in a wood shop), but
I do burn all larger brush that can't be used or turned on the lathe. By
brush I mean branches large enough to be worth my time. All other "brush"
goes into my 30-year-old brush piles, a haven for many species of wildlife
living in my woods.

I rely mostly on windfalls, and am permitted to cut in my neighbor's woods,
which are extensive, so I've left my little paradise largely untouched over
all these years.

I find the species are different in some ways. Maple should always be split
immediately after felling the tree. If you let it sit for a while it will
go "punk" as we say, rotten, or solidify into a brick-like mass that defies
the sharpest of saws and prove nearly impossible to split by hand. White
Ash, however, splits easily wet or dry. I attempt to split everything I cut
immediately and stack it so the air and sun will dry it. More surface area
the quicker it dries. I don't even cover my very large wood pile. The sun
and wind dry it even through rains and snows.

I've seen charts that list the heat and weight of various woods and quality
as firewood. Please Google for that, as it is informative as to species.

I split everything I need to with a 6-pound sledge hammer and heavy iron
wedges, and I also occasionally use a 7-pound splitting wedge. Anything
that resists the first attempt is put aside and cut into smaller pieces by
chainsaw.

Perhaps it's just my belief, but swinging those mauls and hammers are the
very best exercise imaginable. It opens up your shoulders and back, spine,
hips, and legs. There's not a muscle in the body that isn't benefited by
splitting wood.

Have at it.

Willow is junk. Don't burn any conifer, anything that stays green all
winter, as they are full of pitch and you'll have a chimney fire. Burn only
dry wood, hardwood, and you'll get the best heat for the pound or dollar.
Some species (White Ash) actually seem to burn hotter and longer green and
uncured than others (Maple and Beech). Of course, if the wood is green, it
is wet, and you lose a lot of heat burning that water off before you benefit
from the wood itself. Burning green wood is also a danger for chimney fires.

Safety first.

Good splitting to you.

I know this is a gardening group, and hope this is not off-topic.


Great post. I split dry maple, but next time I'll split it green.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
|
| Don't bother with the willow - it's trash. It won't keep going until
| completely dry, and then it burns to nothing in next to no time.
|
| It will if its hot enough and ewortks well enough in a stove.
| Its useable. Not brill, but useable.

The OP referred to a grate, not a stove. It's ghastly in a grate.

| How many tons of wood you you have? You can split wood with a couple
| of hand axes, but buying a couple of wedges and a maul or club hammer
| will probably cost you less than hiring a functional mechanical device.
| Anything that works is likely to be large and heavy.
|
| Yes. You can split a ton in an afternoon , but thats a lot of work.

And how much wood do YOU burn? :-) I would guess that few people would
need to spend more than an hour every couple of weeks, even assuming
they use wood for all heating.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.