[Carolyn]

Hello all, this is my first post and I would appreciate some advice please. I plan to start a veg plot. The soil has been under turf for years and I need to fertilise it but have read that one is not supposed to use manure, why is this? What should I use instead? Thank you in anticipation.........

[Janet Conroy]

Originally Posted by Carolyn

Hello all, this is my first post and I would appreciate some advice please. I plan to start a veg plot. The soil has been under turf for years and I need to fertilise it but have read that one is not supposed to use manure, why is this? What should I use instead? Thank you in anticipation.........

The received wisdom is to plant potatoes in land that was previously under grass. Any basic veg garden book (from your local library) will explain the 4 crop rotation system where some crops need manure and others don't. If you're stripping or have stripped the turf off already, then try Googling "green manures" so that you protect the ground from the worst of the winter weather. Good luck!

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On Sep 24, 12:16*am, Carolyn
wrote:
Hello all, this is my first post and I would appreciate some advice
please. I plan to start a veg plot. The soil has been under turf for
years and I need to fertilise it but have read that one is not supposed
to use manure, why is this? What should I use instead? Thank you in
anticipation.........

Hullo. I'm surprised that your book advised you not to manure. I would
think this advise came in the context of a new plot, like you
described, which hasn't been digged and looked after. Weeds, stones
and bricks, hard stems and whatnots need to be removed. You'll be
surprise what you find underneath turf - I found a lovely collection
of bits of old ceramic tiles which I've used to make a mosaic
pattern )

Also, the advise you got is perhaps because you do not know what your
soil is like. Different crops need different soil conditions and
manure is very high in nitrogen: for example potatoes break down the
soil ready for another crop which would not need any more feeding the
following year. Some crop deplete the soil of nutrients. Rotating your
beds will prevent pest and disease build up too. For your potatoes you
ought to manure the previous autumn. Brassicas will need lime etc.
Some crops don't like disturbance and will be in longer than others,
like leeks for example.

Make a plan of your plot and write down what you want to grow. Don't
be too ambitious at first! You can do a 3 year, 4 year or even a 5
years, depending how big is your plot and how much you want to grow.
Start with a simple 3 year rotation and see how you do. Potatoes are
followed by roots and then it's brassicas and alliums (oinions,
garlic). Courgettes, marrows, sweetcorns are planted wherever.

Don't forget flowers, herbs, all good for pollinating insects and
pests control. There's also companion planting which you ought to look
at. Some crops don't like to grow next to others, whilst some will
benefit growing together. For example carrots like growing next to
rosemary, oinions family, sage etc. whilst beans don't like growing
next to oinions.

Once you've cleared your plot, and you can do this in sections, you
can also use green manure, and now would be best to use phacellia or
rye, You sow and let it grow till early spring and turn over the whole
plant to enrich your soil. You can do this if you have empty plots
over winter. Some people cover their grounds with carpet. I use
cardboard and my own compost, which is low in nitrogen.

It is more simple than it looks. But as Janet suggested, a good book
about growing veg will help you understand the family of vegetables,
to dig or not to dig, and the rest is entirely up to you. There's no
rule except that you must enjoy it )

I'll recommend Organic Gardening by Lawrence Hill and Fruit and
Vegetable from Seeds by Richard Gorer. Good luck!

[Coffee's For Closers]

In article , carolyn-
says...

Hello all, this is my first post and I would appreciate some advice
please. I plan to start a veg plot. The soil has been under turf for
years and I need to fertilise it but have read that one is not supposed
to use manure, why is this? What should I use instead? Thank you in
anticipation.........


There's nothing wrong with manure. Dump in right on. The issue
is if the manure is too fresh. Some folks like it if it has sat
around and mellowed for a few months or so.

It is basically about the nitrogen level (don't want too much at
once) and also letting any weed seeds die (apparently worse with
fresh horse manure.)

Personally, I use blood-and-bone meal, and pellitised sheep
manure, both from my local hardware store.


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On Sep 25, 3:42*am, Coffee's For Closers Usenet2...@THE-DOMAIN-
IN.SIG wrote:
There's nothing wrong with manure. *Dump in right on. *The issue
is if the manure is too fresh. *Some folks like it if it has sat
around and mellowed for a few months or so.

It is basically about the nitrogen level (don't want too much at
once) and also letting any weed seeds die (apparently worse with
fresh horse manure.)

Personally, I use blood-and-bone meal, and pellitised sheep
manure, both from my local hardware store.

On NPK values, sheep manure has 0.7 N (nitrogen) for 0.9 K (potash)
which is the highest potash content on all manure known, beside 'man
manure', tho that doesn't me the later would have bigger value, I just
don't know. Using blood and bone would rise your nitrogen to 12, which
compared to manure is 0.6. The mix of sheep manure plus bonemeal
raises your nitrogen really high, which is surprising given the
advise. Maybe your garden needs it - but this is not for everybody's
soil.

I use lots of comfrey liquid, with the lowest of NPK - the liquid is
taken immediately by the plant and I feel safer to then use manure or
chicken pellets (every 2/3 years because of its nitrogen content)
afterwards.

[tony newton]

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:16:07 +0100, Carolyn
wrote:


Hello all, this is my first post and I would appreciate some advice
please. I plan to start a veg plot. The soil has been under turf for
years and I need to fertilise it but have read that one is not supposed
to use manure, why is this? What should I use instead? Thank you in
anticipation.........

Not related to manure, but if you haven't dug it yet, keep an eye open
for wireworm or chafer grubs if non clay, or leatherjackets if clay.
All of them are common in ex-grassland. They will also target
potatoes. Dig and pick them out by hand. Let the birds find even more.
If the soil is clay, try planting leeks early next year, their roots
break clay up well. Some varieties will harvest in the summer giving
you a chance to put somethingelse in afterwards.

IMHO manure and compost are not great fertilizers. They do provide
microbe life and water and nutrient holding capacity to soil. most veg
are heavy feeders so will need packet fertilizer near to the sowing
season and some a second dose. Manure or compost can go in now to let
the worms spead it about for you. Horse manure can often be full of
weed seeds, cow and chicken far far less.

It's important to know that the manure doesn't come from animals who
grazed on fields where certain chemicals were used. Other manure
threads have info on this.

Nigel