A Gardening forum. GardenBanter.co.uk

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » GardenBanter.co.uk forum » Regional Gardening Discussions » United Kingdom
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Identify a thistle?



 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-07-2009, 10:46 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Identify a thistle?

In the grounds of my office is a thistle I couldn't recognise from a
quick hunt online.

It is tall (at least 5 ft) and some points I noted were that it has
some short sharp barbs on the flats of the leaves, and also on the
stem- the ones on the stem start out sparse and get closer/smaller the
nearer to the next section where branches come out, then the process
repeats. It also had spiky green balls on the tops.

I found images of the bull, musk, spear and canada thistles online but
none looked entirely right...

I understand that a picture would probably be helpful, but I didn't
get one. Not sure if the above is really enough to go on though!
Ads
  #2  
Old 01-07-2009, 11:44 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,683
Default Identify a thistle?

In message
,
jmbillings writes
In the grounds of my office is a thistle I couldn't recognise from a
quick hunt online.

It is tall (at least 5 ft) and some points I noted were that it has
some short sharp barbs on the flats of the leaves, and also on the
stem- the ones on the stem start out sparse and get closer/smaller the
nearer to the next section where branches come out, then the process
repeats. It also had spiky green balls on the tops.

I found images of the bull, musk, spear and canada thistles online but
none looked entirely right...

I understand that a picture would probably be helpful, but I didn't
get one. Not sure if the above is really enough to go on though!


This is a UK (United Kingdom) newsgroup. However your selection of
species names suggests that you are somewhere else - or did you just
pick up the vernacular names during your search?. We may not be able to
help you, but we would have a better chance if we knew where you are.

(For UK readers Canada thistle is, fide Wikipedia, the plant we know as
field or creeping thistle - Cirsium arvense. To add to the confusion,
fide Wikipedia again, both bull and spear thistle are Cirsium vulgare.

The third common species in the UK (I've only ever once seen musk
thistle) is marsh thistle - Cirsium palustre. It seems as good a match
as anything.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
  #3  
Old 02-07-2009, 12:43 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Identify a thistle?

On Jul 1, 11:44*pm, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message
,
jmbillings writes

In the grounds of my office is a thistle I couldn't recognise from a
quick hunt online.


It is tall (at least 5 ft) and some points I noted were that it has
some short sharp barbs on the flats of the leaves, and also on the
stem- the ones on the stem start out sparse and get closer/smaller the
nearer to the next section where branches come out, then the process
repeats. It also had spiky green balls on the tops.


I found images of the bull, musk, spear and canada thistles online but
none looked entirely right...


I understand that a picture would probably be helpful, but I didn't
get one. Not sure if the above is really enough to go on though!


This is a UK (United Kingdom) newsgroup. However your selection of
species names suggests that you are somewhere else - or did you just
pick up the vernacular names during your search?. We may not be able to
help you, but we would have a better chance if we knew where you are.

(For UK readers Canada thistle is, fide Wikipedia, the plant we know as
field or creeping thistle - Cirsium arvense. To add to the confusion,
fide Wikipedia again, both bull and spear thistle are Cirsium vulgare.

The third common species in the UK (I've only ever once seen musk
thistle) is marsh thistle - Cirsium palustre. It seems as good a match
as anything.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley


Hello there-

I should have clarified, I am indeed in the UK. The names I mentioned
were what came up on various sites I found; however I can understand
the confusion as many of the sites seemed to be American.

I've just looked up Cirsium palustre and it has some similarities to
what I saw, but the site he http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/marshthis.htm
says it doesn't have spines on the surface of the leaves, which I'm
sure the one I saw did. In addition, the photo doesn't quite compare
as the one I saw was more of one tall stem with the leaves coming off
on shorter "branches" rather than the one there.

I'll have to take a look at it again tomorrow and upload a photo
somewhere!
  #4  
Old 02-07-2009, 12:58 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 233
Default Identify a thistle?


"jmbillings" wrote
I should have clarified, I am indeed in the UK. The names I mentioned
were what came up on various sites I found; however I can understand
the confusion as many of the sites seemed to be American.


I've just looked up Cirsium palustre and it has some similarities to
what I saw, but the site he
http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/marshthis.htm
says it doesn't have spines on the surface of the leaves, which I'm
sure the one I saw did. In addition, the photo doesn't quite compare
as the one I saw was more of one tall stem with the leaves coming off
on shorter "branches" rather than the one there.


Your description reminded me of teasels, which can grow very tall. They
have quite spiky stems and leaves and look rather thistle-like. I don't
suppose it could have been that?

http://wildseed.co.uk/species/view/46

--
Sue

  #5  
Old 02-07-2009, 06:48 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Identify a thistle?

On Jul 2, 12:58*am, "Sue" wrote:

Your description reminded me of teasels, which can grow very tall. They
have quite spiky stems and leaves and look rather thistle-like. I don't
suppose it could have been that?

http://wildseed.co.uk/species/view/46


Hi Sue.

I think you've got it - I looked at a few other pictures too and
that's definitely what I was looking at.
Some nice close up pictures he
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/.../bjteasel.html

Thanks!

James
  #6  
Old 02-07-2009, 09:47 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,683
Default Identify a thistle?

In message
,
jmbillings writes
On Jul 1, 11:44*pm, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message
,
jmbillings writes

In the grounds of my office is a thistle I couldn't recognise from a
quick hunt online.


It is tall (at least 5 ft) and some points I noted were that it has
some short sharp barbs on the flats of the leaves, and also on the
stem- the ones on the stem start out sparse and get closer/smaller the
nearer to the next section where branches come out, then the process
repeats. It also had spiky green balls on the tops.


I found images of the bull, musk, spear and canada thistles online but
none looked entirely right...


I understand that a picture would probably be helpful, but I didn't
get one. Not sure if the above is really enough to go on though!


This is a UK (United Kingdom) newsgroup. However your selection of
species names suggests that you are somewhere else - or did you just
pick up the vernacular names during your search?. We may not be able to
help you, but we would have a better chance if we knew where you are.

(For UK readers Canada thistle is, fide Wikipedia, the plant we know as
field or creeping thistle - Cirsium arvense. To add to the confusion,
fide Wikipedia again, both bull and spear thistle are Cirsium vulgare.

The third common species in the UK (I've only ever once seen musk
thistle) is marsh thistle - Cirsium palustre. It seems as good a match
as anything.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley


Hello there-

I should have clarified, I am indeed in the UK. The names I mentioned
were what came up on various sites I found; however I can understand
the confusion as many of the sites seemed to be American.

I've just looked up Cirsium palustre and it has some similarities to
what I saw, but the site he
http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/marshthis.htm
says it doesn't have spines on the surface of the leaves, which I'm
sure the one I saw did. In addition, the photo doesn't quite compare
as the one I saw was more of one tall stem with the leaves coming off
on shorter "branches" rather than the one there.


It's moot now, as your plant has now been identified as teasel, but
Cirsium palustre, like Cirsium vulgare, can be either single-stemmed or
multi-stemmed. Also, teasel doesn't (I've just looked at one a couple of
hundred yards away) have spines on the surface of the leaves either -
but it does have spines along the underside of the midrib.

Apart from holly cultivars (e.g. 'Ferox') the only plant I know with
spines on the leaf surface is bristly oxtounge (Picris echioides).
Prickly lettuce (Lactuca serriola), like teasel, has spines along the
midrib underside.

I'll have to take a look at it again tomorrow and upload a photo
somewhere!


--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
  #7  
Old 04-07-2009, 12:03 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Identify a thistle?


"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high, multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might have to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina










  #8  
Old 04-07-2009, 12:45 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,683
Default Identify a thistle?

In message , Christina Websell
writes

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high, multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might have to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina

If it's normal purple flowers then I'd guess it's the normal spear
thistle (Cirsium vulgare). But other big, purple-flowered thistle-like
plants include cardoon, globe artichoke and cotton thistle.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
  #9  
Old 04-07-2009, 09:38 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,762
Default Identify a thistle?

On 2009-07-04 00:03:13 +0100, "Christina Websell"
said:


"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high, multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might have to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina


Sounds like it could be a cardoon which is the cousin of an artichoke
and is mainly sold now for ornamental purposes. 8' high and wide
sounds just right. for Cynara cardunculus.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

  #10  
Old 06-07-2009, 10:20 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Identify a thistle?


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-07-04 00:03:13 +0100, "Christina Websell"
said:


"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high,
multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might have
to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina


Sounds like it could be a cardoon which is the cousin of an artichoke and
is mainly sold now for ornamental purposes. 8' high and wide sounds just
right. for Cynara cardunculus.



It's not 8 foot wide! merely 3 feet or so. I had a look at some web
images of cardoons and the bracts are not right, nor are the leaves. Thanks
for the idea though.
I think it must be a well-nourished spear thistle. I sprinkled the bed with
dried chicken manure last year, not the bought stuff, from my own chickens.

Tina



  #11  
Old 06-07-2009, 10:34 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Identify a thistle?


"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , Christina Websell
writes

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high, multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might have
to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina

If it's normal purple flowers then I'd guess it's the normal spear thistle
(Cirsium vulgare). But other big, purple-flowered thistle-like plants
include cardoon, globe artichoke and cotton thistle.
--

I think you are probably right. It's growing next to a close board fence
which is 2 metres high plus gravel board and it's now 2 feet above that.
All my books suggested that spear thistles are about 6 ft. Sorry to mix
imperial and metric, I'm still on imperial but my neighbour - whose fence it
is - told me the fence was 2 metres, and the gravel board looks to be about
10 inches. Anyway, it's one big thistle!!
I shall leave it for now as the insects like it.

Tina




  #12  
Old 06-07-2009, 10:45 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,683
Default Identify a thistle?

In message , Christina Websell
writes

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , Christina Websell
writes

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high, multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might have
to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina

If it's normal purple flowers then I'd guess it's the normal spear thistle
(Cirsium vulgare). But other big, purple-flowered thistle-like plants
include cardoon, globe artichoke and cotton thistle.
--

I think you are probably right. It's growing next to a close board fence
which is 2 metres high plus gravel board and it's now 2 feet above that.
All my books suggested that spear thistles are about 6 ft. Sorry to mix
imperial and metric, I'm still on imperial but my neighbour - whose fence it
is - told me the fence was 2 metres, and the gravel board looks to be about
10 inches. Anyway, it's one big thistle!!
I shall leave it for now as the insects like it.


The books give the upper limit of the general run of a plant; bigger
specimens turn up. For example, Stace says that Malva sylvestris grows
to 1m, and Flora Europaea says 1.5m (I think that the difference is
geographic variation); however there was a plant locally which reached
2.5m, or maybe even 3m.

Tina


--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
  #13  
Old 07-07-2009, 11:40 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Identify a thistle?


"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , Christina Websell
writes

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , Christina Websell
writes

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high,
multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might
have
to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina

If it's normal purple flowers then I'd guess it's the normal spear
thistle
(Cirsium vulgare). But other big, purple-flowered thistle-like plants
include cardoon, globe artichoke and cotton thistle.
--

I think you are probably right. It's growing next to a close board fence
which is 2 metres high plus gravel board and it's now 2 feet above that.
All my books suggested that spear thistles are about 6 ft. Sorry to mix
imperial and metric, I'm still on imperial but my neighbour - whose fence
it
is - told me the fence was 2 metres, and the gravel board looks to be
about
10 inches. Anyway, it's one big thistle!!
I shall leave it for now as the insects like it.


The books give the upper limit of the general run of a plant; bigger
specimens turn up. For example, Stace says that Malva sylvestris grows to
1m, and Flora Europaea says 1.5m (I think that the difference is
geographic variation); however there was a plant locally which reached
2.5m, or maybe even 3m.


As I said I shall keep it, the hoverflies love it. I shall tolerate being
majorly pricked by it. it's 3 ft away from my path to go to my chickens.
It's more than 3 feet wide. Ouch.

Tina





  #14  
Old 08-07-2009, 01:57 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default Identify a thistle?


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-07-04 00:03:13 +0100, "Christina Websell"
said:


"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high,
multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might
have to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina


Sounds like it could be a cardoon which is the cousin of an artichoke and
is mainly sold now for ornamental purposes. 8' high and wide sounds just
right. for Cynara cardunculus.



It's not 8 foot wide! merely 3 feet or so. I had a look at some web
images of cardoons and the bracts are not right, nor are the leaves.
Thanks for the idea though.
I think it must be a well-nourished spear thistle. I sprinkled the bed
with dried chicken manure last year, not the bought stuff, from my own
chickens.

Tina


Could it be Onopardon?

Spider


  #15  
Old 11-07-2009, 11:57 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Identify a thistle?


"Spider" wrote in message
...

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-07-04 00:03:13 +0100, "Christina Websell"
said:


"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...

If we are talking thistles, what is mine? It's 8 feet high,
multistemmed,
normal purple flowers just coming out. It's so big and wide I might
have to
cut it back so I can get down the garden.
My friend thinks it should be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Tina

Sounds like it could be a cardoon which is the cousin of an artichoke
and is mainly sold now for ornamental purposes. 8' high and wide sounds
just right. for Cynara cardunculus.



It's not 8 foot wide! merely 3 feet or so. I had a look at some web
images of cardoons and the bracts are not right, nor are the leaves.
Thanks for the idea though.
I think it must be a well-nourished spear thistle. I sprinkled the bed
with dried chicken manure last year, not the bought stuff, from my own
chickens.

Tina


Could it be Onopardon?


No. It's not woolly. I have looked at all thistle possibilities. It has
yellow spines on the end of the leaves and on the bracts. It's a huge
spear thistle.

Tina





 




Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright 2004-2014 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.